4th year rotations during interview season

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brettf2

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Are there any away rotations on VSAS that one can do online?

I'm applying for a radiology residency and didn't realize that my interview season was going to span 3 months. I'm applying to both coasts and have no idea how I'm going to finish my rotation requirements unless I find an easy/forgiving rotation or find some sort of online elective.

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I'd imagine most places should be forgiving. After all, if they are accepting a 4th year to rotate with them, they SHOULD know they go through this thing called the match. Just let them know the first day or the day after you get an invite and it should work out.

Unless you're doing a Sub-I or audition rotation, I don't see why they wouldn't want you to go.
 
Are there any away rotations on VSAS that one can do online?

I'm applying for a radiology residency and didn't realize that my interview season was going to span 3 months. I'm applying to both coasts and have no idea how I'm going to finish my rotation requirements unless I find an easy/forgiving rotation or find some sort of online elective.

Interviews are way more important than whatever rotation you're on at the moment - I'm sure they'll understand.
 
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We understand.

That being said, it is also expected that you didn't just figure this out at the last minute and aren't scheduling Sub-Is/AIs during interview season. Since I offer an elective, I understand students will be gone here and there during the rotation. If it was an AI/Sub-I I would be less understanding. Where was the OP's school advice when setting up 4th year rotations?
 
We understand.

That being said, it is also expected that you didn't just figure this out at the last minute and aren't scheduling Sub-Is/AIs during interview season. Since I offer an elective, I understand students will be gone here and there during the rotation. If it was an AI/Sub-I I would be less understanding. Where was the OP's school advice when setting up 4th year rotations?

I know at least three or four people who were unable to switch out as much as they tried from their sub-I rotations during either Dec or Jan. It's not easy sometimes
 
I know at least three or four people who were unable to switch out as much as they tried from their sub-I rotations during either Dec or Jan. It's not easy sometimes

Yes, I understand that can happen.

My point was that the OP acts like it is a surprise that interview season lasts from October - Feb and that he would need time off. Someone has failed here - either the OP for his lack of research/planning or his school for lack of advisement on the issue. I find that looking ahead, rather than reacting to events, is good advice for a lot of things.

If a student has clearly indicated that they asked for an elective/research time during interview season and their school would not allow it, then so be it - we all know that schools do screwy things.
 
We understand.

That being said, it is also expected that you didn't just figure this out at the last minute and aren't scheduling Sub-Is/AIs during interview season. Since I offer an elective, I understand students will be gone here and there during the rotation. If it was an AI/Sub-I I would be less understanding. Where was the OP's school advice when setting up 4th year rotations?
You offer electives? I guess I should have never said how much I detest surgery. :meanie:
 
Try to schedule easy electives during interview season. Don't schedule anything like sub-I's or audition rotations. There are some electives where if you're gone for a day, no one will even notice. Try to schedule those kinds of electives during interview season. Of course, I would recommend, as a courtesy, informing your residents and attendings of interview invites as soon as you get them.
 
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We understand.

That being said, it is also expected that you didn't just figure this out at the last minute and aren't scheduling Sub-Is/AIs during interview season. Since I offer an elective, I understand students will be gone here and there during the rotation. If it was an AI/Sub-I I would be less understanding. Where was the OP's school advice when setting up 4th year rotations?

When is the best time to do Sub-Is and AIs? I was told most places don't let you do them in July, so that leaves only August and September if you want to avoid interview season, right?
 
When is the best time to do Sub-Is and AIs? I was told most places don't let you do them in July, so that leaves only August and September if you want to avoid interview season, right?

Yep.

Since most students are looking to obtain a letter of recommendation from that rotation, you really do need to do them before October.

If you don't really care about the letter or seeing a program you'll be applying to up close, then I would recommend doing it after February.
 
Yep.

Since most students are looking to obtain a letter of recommendation from that rotation, you really do need to do them before October.

If you don't really care about the letter or seeing a program you'll be applying to up close, then I would recommend doing it after February.

Sorry for posting here. I am just a lowly premed. So what if the school just assigned you the 4th year core such as the Sub Is during the interview season? Are you just out of luck?
 
Sorry for posting here. I am just a lowly premed. So what if the school just assigned you the 4th year core such as the Sub Is during the interview season? Are you just out of luck?

Why in the name of heaven do you care? You're a premed for the love of god
 
Why in the name of heaven do you care? You're a premed for the love of god

sorry to muddle up the thread, but I am trying to decide which school to attend and just trying to look at every detail
 
sorry to muddle up the thread, but I am trying to decide which school to attend and just trying to look at every detail

This should have zero bearing on the school you choose to attend. It's such an insignificant part of determining the rest of your medical education and the vast majority of schools are okay with you taking time off to interview.
 
This should have zero bearing on the school you choose to attend. It's such an insignificant part of determining the rest of your medical education and the vast majority of schools are okay with you taking time off to interview.

I'd beg to differ. Some schools assign you to a rotation schedule (or allow you to choose between a few), while others give you pretty much complete freedom to design your schedule during your clinical years.

All things being equal, choose the latter school, as it allows you to schedule in time to interview rather than having to beg off from an intense rotation (I'm off completely for November and December). It also allows you to schedule electives and aways for the optimal time to help your application.
 
I'd beg to differ. Some schools assign you to a rotation schedule (or allow you to choose between a few), while others give you pretty much complete freedom to design your schedule during your clinical years.

All things being equal, choose the latter school, as it allows you to schedule in time to interview rather than having to beg off from an intense rotation (I'm off completely for November and December). It also allows you to schedule electives and aways for the optimal time to help your application.

While you're right about some schools assigning an M3 schedule (which doesn't really matter), I don't know of any school that assigns you an M4 schedule. There are two things that do make a difference:

1) When the fourth year schedule starts/whether you can push core clerkships back into mid-fourth year to get more rotations in before applications are due. I have a number of friends at other med schools that could start on their subi/away/elective rotations for fourth year as early as April. This is a reasonably significant advantage compared to those of us who are on the traditional start-m4-in-July curriculum, because it gives people who want to be in competitive specialties a lot more leeway to get in the rotations they need before September.

2) What the actual requirements are for M4 schedules. This is really a minor, minor point, but some schools have more stringent requirements than others. Ex: my school requires every student to have a medically oriented and a surgically oriented subi, versus many schools require one or the other. All that means is I'm taking Urology in April, which is a bit annoying, but no big deal otherwise. Some schools require every student to have a month in the ICU, many don't.

Either way, these are things that are pretty small on the list of stuff to look for in a med school. You could try asking the med students you encounter on your interviews about these, but unless they're M4s they will almost certainly have no idea. (This time last year, I only had a vague idea of how M4 scheduling worked at all, and I still knew more than most in my class about it)
 
While you're right about some schools assigning an M3 schedule (which doesn't really matter), I don't know of any school that assigns you an M4 schedule. There are two things that do make a difference:

1) When the fourth year schedule starts/whether you can push core clerkships back into mid-fourth year to get more rotations in before applications are due. I have a number of friends at other med schools that could start on their subi/away/elective rotations for fourth year as early as April. This is a reasonably significant advantage compared to those of us who are on the traditional start-m4-in-July curriculum, because it gives people who want to be in competitive specialties a lot more leeway to get in the rotations they need before September.

2) What the actual requirements are for M4 schedules. This is really a minor, minor point, but some schools have more stringent requirements than others. Ex: my school requires every student to have a medically oriented and a surgically oriented subi, versus many schools require one or the other. All that means is I'm taking Urology in April, which is a bit annoying, but no big deal otherwise. Some schools require every student to have a month in the ICU, many don't.

Either way, these are things that are pretty small on the list of stuff to look for in a med school. You could try asking the med students you encounter on your interviews about these, but unless they're M4s they will almost certainly have no idea. (This time last year, I only had a vague idea of how M4 scheduling worked at all, and I still knew more than most in my class about it)

So the consensus is that the 4th year required rotations are minor issues? I don't see why considering that for DOs, if those core happened to fall during your away-audition-rotations before interview season starts it will give you less chance to audition widely which is bad because most competitive DO programs require them. Should I still consider the 4th year to be a minor issue? OP sorry to hijack the thread but I didn't want to start my own thread in this forum.

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Yes it is a very minor issue. Most schools give you time off during 4th year anyway that you can use during interview season. Some schools give 3-5 months off during 4th year.

Also a lot of residencies consider your 3rd year clerkship to be more important than 4th year. I know some people who did their sub-i in april after match and they still matched at competitive places in competitive specialties like rads and derms
 
So the consensus is that the 4th year required rotations are minor issues? I don't see why considering that for DOs, if those core happened to fall during your away auditioning rotations time before interview se son starts it wll give you less chance to do them which is bad because most competitive DO programs require them. Should I still consider the 4th year to be a minor issue? OP sorry to hijack the thread but I didnt want to start my own thread in this forum.

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Every school that I know of lets you make your own fourth year schedule, within reason. A few students might get screwed because they're last in the lottery and only get the leftover spots in the required rotations, but they're a substantial minority and most schools/departments work hard to accommodate reasonable requests even if you're on a required rotation. It's in their interest that you match, and match well. Time off for interviewing is a complete nonissue for >95% of US medical students.

Like I said above, the biggest thing you can look for when it comes to M4 year is when it starts. If you want to do something competitive enough it would behoove you to do multiple away rotations, you'd want a school that ends their core clerkships earlier than July 1 or one that lets you push back a core clerkship into mid fourth year so you can start m4 early. It's getting more and more common for schools to do one or the other, and that's really the only advantage you could get for 4th year scheduling. (Ex: If your school ends m3 year after May rather than after June, you have 3-4 months rather than 2-3 to to do a home rotation in your specialty of interest, take some time off to study for step 2, and do 1-2 away rotations).
 
Thanks all for your advises. I wasn't really concerned about the interviews since I guess almost all med school allows it, but was concerned more about required core rotation falling (via lottery) during the the months of August - November when I should be using that time to do away-audition-rotation. I think. I heard some stories of 4th year student trying to match into competitive AOA residency and they were only able to do two away-audition-rotation due to their school making them do core rotations (such as rural) during that time.

Like I said above, the biggest thing you can look for when it comes to M4 year is when it starts. If you want to do something competitive enough it would behoove you to do multiple away rotations, you'd want a school that ends their core clerkships earlier than July 1 or one that lets you push back a core clerkship into mid fourth year so you can start m4 early. It's getting more and more common for schools to do one or the other, and that's really the only advantage you could get for 4th year scheduling. (Ex: If your school ends m3 year after May rather than after June, you have 3-4 months rather than 2-3 to to do a home rotation in your specialty of interest, take some time off to study for step 2, and do 1-2 away rotations).

Is that for MD, DO or for both schools? How do I go about asking whether school I am looking at does this or not? I think the two schools I am looking at start at the same time which is at the end of June.

One school I am looking at has the following clinical year scheduling
3rd year
1elective
1selective

4th year
1 sub-intern-med
1 sub-intern-surg
1 em
These 4th year core can be scheduled whenever and wherever you like

The second school I am looking at which I like more has the following.
3rd year
instead of the elective/selective
1 Geriatrics
1 Extra month of Pediatric

4th year
2 rural rotation (pcp)
1 urban selective
1 em
Except for the EM, the rurals and urban are scheduled via lottery. So you have no saying when they place those rotations. They can be place in August/Sept/Oct, Sept/Oct/Nov, etc...

So are the differences between these school still minor all things being equal?
 
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Another thought: if you need to do a rotation during interview season, try picking something that will give you flexibility to work on the weekend. For example, I did a 4 week peds EM elective and not only was it awesome, I also got to do 5 interviews because I just did shifts on every weekend day and used all my days off for traveling to interviews 🙂
 
Alternatively, you could do rotations where the people involved don't know and/or don't care when you're gone. I showed up for a grand total of 17 days during last December and January.
 
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