>520 MCAT Distinctions

[TheDappGoesWild]

For the T20 schools, are scores >520 regarded as the same?

For example, do top schools view a 524 as being significantly better than a 521 or are the two scores lumped together and treated the same since they're already so high?

Just curious because I have a lot of people telling me that after a certain point (>520), MCAT score increases don't matter.

@LizzyM

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[PreMedMissteps]

521 is 99th percentile. Probably viewed the same, but I’m not expert.

 

[LizzyM]

Hard to say. The pool of applicants who have to worry about this is exceedingly small. 😉

 

[altblue]

It may matter more when coupled with a lower GPA. A 3.61/527 might be viewed more favorably than a 3.61/521.

 

[ClimbsRox]

A 528 probably gets your application a couple extra glances.

 

[efle]

Well let's see, 520 vs 526 would be something like 37 vs 41, there are a handful of schools that might care about the extra few points. WashU, NYU, Vandy are some examples where that's the difference between below-average in the class and top decile. In broad strokes though, anything in the top 1-2% together with strong GPA and research will get you a boatload of t20 interviews

 

[TheDappGoesWild]

Hard to say. The pool of applicants who have to worry about this is exceedingly small. 😉

Does your school weigh different sections differently or are they treated the same? For instance, is psych/soc not looked at as seriously as say chem/phys or are both equally important?

 

[LizzyM]

Does your school weigh different sections differently or are they treated the same? For instance, is psych/soc not looked at as seriously as say chem/phys or are both equally important?

From what I've seen, they are treated the same. Most interviewed applicants tend to have >126 in every section and >129 in at least 3 sections. The section that is lowest is often CARS but it can be any of them. I rarely see a MCAT < 517.

 

[chemdoctor]

A 528 probably gets your application a couple extra glances.

No guarantees tho

 

[Skeletorr]

From what I've seen, they are treated the same. Most interviewed applicants tend to have >126 in every section and >129 in at least 3 sections. The section that is lowest is often CARS but it can be any of them. I rarely see a MCAT < 517.

So anything below a 517 isn’t common for interviewees at your school?

 

[efle]

So anything below a 517 isn’t common for interviewees at your school?

There's no school in the nation where 514-516s are rare. Even at the worst offenders, 10-25% of the class comes in with an MCAT below 517. It just means the lower scoring applicants are being seen mostly by others. For example suppose a school had a specific subset of committee for reviews/interviews of URM apps.

 

[Skeletorr]

No guarantees tho

It warrants at least a double take by the person reviewing the app.

There's no school in the nation where 514-516s are rare. Even at the worst offenders, 10-25% of the class comes in with an MCAT below 517. It just means the lower scoring applicants are being seen mostly by others. For example suppose a school had a specific subset of committee for reviews/interviews of URM apps.

By worst offenders, are you referring to stat ****** (NYU, Vandy, etc)?

 

[WedgeDawg]

It's not going to be the difference between you getting in and you not getting in. At the schools where this could conceivably make a difference, most of the applicants are super qualified across all aspects of their application that this is not likely to be the deciding factor for an interview or admit decision.

 

[efle]

By worst offenders, are you referring to stat ****** (NYU, Vandy, etc)?

Yup. Nobody has a 10th percentile above 515. And the handful of places with 25th percentiles of 517+ are the usual suspects (WashU, NYU, Vandy, Penn, Chicago, Hopkins)

 

[MyOdyssey]

There's no school in the nation where 514-516s are rare. Even at the worst offenders, 10-25% of the class comes in with an MCAT below 517. It just means the lower scoring applicants are being seen mostly by others. For example suppose a school had a specific subset of committee for reviews/interviews of URM apps.

Where do you find these stats on distribution of MCAT scores by medical school?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Where do you find these stats on distribution of MCAT scores by medical school?

MSAR

 

[LizzyM]

There's no school in the nation where 514-516s are rare. Even at the worst offenders, 10-25% of the class comes in with an MCAT below 517. It just means the lower scoring applicants are being seen mostly by others. For example suppose a school had a specific subset of committee for reviews/interviews of URM apps.

And >10% of the class brings something special to the table in terms of life experience etc: legacy, veteran, URM. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the group that are in the lowest 10th percentile of the incoming class fall into one or more of those groups.

 

[efle]

And >10% of the class brings something special to the table in terms of life experience etc: legacy, veteran, URM. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the group that are in the lowest 10th percentile of the incoming class fall into one or more of those groups.

Definitely. Like I said above that's probably why you don't see them, they have someone else looking specifically at URM, disadvantaged life story etc. If the stack of papers on your desk is the bread and butter high-stats ORMs with research narratives, you probably see more scores that start with 52 than 51

 

[TheDappGoesWild]

And >10% of the class brings something special to the table in terms of life experience etc: legacy, veteran, URM. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the group that are in the lowest 10th percentile of the incoming class fall into one or more of those groups.

What would you say is the average MCAT of Asian applicants (w/o groundbreaking experiences) you interview?


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[jarednogeek]

It’s kind of like my school’s committee viewed a 3.8-4.0 science gpa as the same when giving us points to rank us

 

[efle]

What would you say is the average MCAT of Asian applicants (w/o groundbreaking experiences) you interview?


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It will just be a smidge higher than the class average, since the class is overwhelmingly ORM. If you wanted to try and guesstimate, maybe look at the MSAR ranges and instead of using the 10th-90th interval, look at 25th-90th. That'll be the typical peeps without unique backgrounds, URM status, parents on faculty etc.

 

[TheDappGoesWild]

It will just be a smidge higher than the class average, since the class is overwhelmingly ORM. If you wanted to try and guesstimate, maybe look at the MSAR ranges and instead of using the 10th-90th interval, look at 25th-90th. That'll be the typical peeps without unique backgrounds, URM status, parents on faculty etc.

I don’t know about that...

According to Columbia’s incoming class statistics, ~33% of acceptances went to URMs. That doesn’t take into account legacies, veterans, LGBT etc. So I’d bet the actual range for ORMs lies closer around the 50th-90th interval. Just wanted to get LizzyM’s thoughts.


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[efle]

I don’t know about that...

According to Columbia’s incoming class statistics, ~33% of acceptances went to URMs. That doesn’t take into account legacies, veterans, LGBT etc. So I’d bet the actual range for ORMs lies closer around the 50th-90th interval. Just wanted to get LizzyM’s thoughts.


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They're a hell of an outlier if that's accurate. Our diversity report here says 13% URM (50% minority, of which 37% is Asian)

 

[MyOdyssey]

They're a hell of an outlier if that's accurate. Our diversity report here says 13% URM (50% minority, of which 37% is Asian)

If your school treats LGBTQ as URM, then your categories might blur to some extent.

 

[efle]

If your school treats LGBTQ as URM, then your categories might blur to some extent.

I can honestly say I've never heard anyone refer to anything but race/ethnicity with the term URM, so I'm guessing they're not included. Does AMCAS ask about orientation these days? Do gay students apply to professional schools at markedly lower rates? I'm surprised to hear this is a new practice

 

[MyOdyssey]

I can honestly say I've never heard anyone refer to anything but race/ethnicity with the term URM, so I'm guessing they're not included. Does AMCAS ask about orientation these days? Do gay students apply to professional schools at markedly lower rates? I'm surprised to hear this is a new practice

Yale Med:
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2011/10/25/medical-school-targets-lgbtq-applicants/

 

[efle]

Yale Med:
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2011/10/25/medical-school-targets-lgbtq-applicants/

Unless I'm misreading this, the entirety of their LGBT targeting is...adding a pamphlet to their info packet? It's only a student who likens it to racial URM recruitment. Would be absolutely shocked if Yale would count an LGBT white guy the same as a black classmate for their URM tally

 

[LizzyM]

I don’t know about that...

According to Columbia’s incoming class statistics, ~33% of acceptances went to URMs. That doesn’t take into account legacies, veterans, LGBT etc. So I’d bet the actual range for ORMs lies closer around the 50th-90th interval. Just wanted to get LizzyM’s thoughts.


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Offers of admission or matriculants?

Given that you said "incoming class statistics" I would imagine that you are referring to matriculants. Every school can define URM as they please. Without knowing how they define URM, it is hard to know what to make of 33% URM. I've seen plenty of URM that are above the 50th percentile for my school so I would not assume that the bottom 50% consists of all the URM.

 

[TheDappGoesWild]

Offers of admission or matriculants?

Given that you said "incoming class statistics" I would imagine that you are referring to matriculants. Every school can define URM as they please. Without knowing how they define URM, it is hard to know what to make of 33% URM. I've seen plenty of URM that are above the 50th percentile for my school so I would not assume that the bottom 50% consists of all the URM.

Offers of admission is 33%.

Regarding my original question, what would you say is the average MCAT for Asians that you interview at your T20 school?


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[LizzyM]

Offers of admission is 33%.

Regarding my original question, what would you say is the average MCAT for Asians that you interview at your T20 school?


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Really good URMs get tons of offers and have to turn down most of them to choose their one and only. So 33% of offers going to URM to snag a class that is 11-17% URM would not surprise me in the least.

I have no idea what the avg MCAT for Asians is at my school...

 

[TheDappGoesWild]

Really good URMs get tons of offers and have to turn down most of them to choose their one and only. So 33% of offers going to URM to snag a class that is 11-17% URM would not surprise me in the least.

I have no idea what the avg MCAT for Asians is at my school...

Yes it doesn’t surprise me either as the numbers are published here Facts and Statistics

32.2% acceptances go to URMs whereas only 22% of matriculants are URM.

As an Asian male, this does raise concerns as MSAR medians are based on offers of acceptance. It seems that medians at top schools might be more reflective of URMs and special cases (LGBT, veterans, legacies etc.) than I anticipated. The fact that you’ve never interviewed <517 further corroborates my assumptions.

Given this, do you think it’s still wise for ORMs to construct their school lists off of MSAR MCAT medians or should we focus more on the 75th percentile when it comes to MCAT scores.

For example, would you recommend an ORM male with a 520 MCAT to be hopeful about schools with a 520 median like Hopkins, Penn or would you recommend such an applicant to focus more on schools where 520 lies >75th percentile (like Pitt)?


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[efle]

An Asian applicant with a 520, good grades and research is absolutely in the running for places like Hopkins and Harvard and Penn. It's their bread and butter. Like I posted above, that Columbia number is way high. At Hopkins white and Asian make up 87% of the student body, you don't need to make big adjustments to the MSAR intervals. At most, just look at 25th percentile instead of 10th.

 

[MacBee]

MSAR medians are based on offers of acceptance.

MSAR shows stats/ranges for both accepted and matriculated, you just need to switch between the two.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

It may matter more when coupled with a lower GPA. A 3.61/527 might be viewed more favorably than a 3.61/521.

And the reverse: a 3.8/521 is probably viewed better than a 3.4/525.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

I am not sure about this. I think that a 525 is generally seen as slightly better than a 520. Schools stop drawing distinctions, I'd think, at around the 523-525 range; perfect scores may catch some eyes but other than that, once you're north of the 99th percentile, everything looks the same.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

And the reverse: a 3.8/521 is probably viewed better than a 3.4/525.

No kidding. Four points' worth of MCAT are extremely roughly worth one-tenth of a point worth of GPA. It'd be a better debate if we were looking at 3.8/521 vs. 3.7/525 vs. 3.6/528.

 

[puahate]

No kidding. Four points' worth of MCAT are extremely roughly worth one-tenth of a point worth of GPA. It'd be a better debate if we were looking at 3.8/521 vs. 3.7/525 vs. 3.6/528.

At this point the deciding factor is probably other factors

 

[Walter Raleigh]

At this point the deciding factor is probably other factors

And that settles it: those three sets of numbers are looked at as roughly equal!