6 MCAT attempts question

[jakeyb93]

Hey guys so I’ve been having a difficult time being accepted into a medical school because I have 6 MCAT attempts. I know I have a great application because I have friends with 1 or 2 attempts that have 509s+ that are being declined from schools that are putting me on hold. I have a 3.5 GPA also, so I’m positive that the MCAT attempts are what’s holding me back.

My scores and their dates are as follows:

September 2016 - 493
April 2017 - 497
June 2017 - 494
September 2017 - 503
August 2018 - 498
July 2019 - 506

I applied late this cycle so for the 2020 cycle I’m going to apply the first day everything opens. I have my application and secondaries ready and pre-written. I know scores are good for 3 years, so with this 2020 cycle coming up, even though medical schools see all scores, what are the chances they only consider my final 3 scores and that I have a genuine chance at an interview/acceptance? I want to be realistic with myself and want to know if I really need to invest my time in another career. I really want to be a doctor and I know I’ll make a great one so it just hurts that this one part of my application is blocking me from that. Thank you for your time.

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[DNAJB6]

It's a major red flag. You clearly did not master the information tested. You scored worse than half of test takers for most of the examinations and well below the median score for matriculants. Worse yet, you kept taking the exam without learning from your mistakes which shows poor judgment. How many cycles have you applied? At this point, I would say your application is dead on arrival at all MD schools and probably most DO schools. Given that there is a correlation between MCAT and Step 1 score, you may have problems with Step 1. I would move on personally.

Maybe @Goro can give you a better idea about DO schools.

 

[jakeyb93]

It's a major red flag. You clearly did not master the information tested. You scored worse that half of test takers for most of the examinations and well below the median score for matriculants. Worse yet, you kept taking the exam without learning from your mistakes which shows poor judgment. How many cycles have you applied for? At this point, I would say your application is dead on arrival at all MD schools and probably most DO schools. Given that there is a correlation between MCAT and Step 1 score, you may have problems with Step 1. I would move on personally.

Maybe @Goro can give you a better idea about DO schools.

This is my second time applying. This July will be my 3rd time.

 

[Goro]

I let out a loud whistle when I read the OP. I believe that six attempts, whose average is 498.5, shows not merely a failure to master the material, but the possibility of even not being competent in it. IF you have test taking anxiety issues, those have to be fixed or you won't survive med school.

I also believe that you're DOA for MD, but may have a chance if you apply broadly to DO, except the NY and CA Touros, CCOM, and AZCOM.

I can't recommend LUCOM, BCOM, Wm Carey ICOM, nor Nova for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CalHS is too new and has a too small a rotations base, it seems.

EDIT: This is my second time applying. This July will be my 3rd time.
Did you apply last cycle and target DO schools? If so, and no IIs, try an SMP. Otherwise, it's time for Plan B.

 

[kritten]

I know I have a great application because I have friends with 1 or 2 attempts that have 509s+ that are being declined from schools that are putting me on hold.

What in your application makes it great? Are you talking pre-II holds? You’re still not interviewing.
What schools did you apply to and, to be frank, at what point will you be ok walking away?

edit to add - your attempts in 2017 look off to me, even impulsive.Did you really prepare or just continue sitting for the test?

 

[jakeyb93]

What in your application makes it great? Are you talking pre-II holds? You’re still not interviewing.
What schools did you apply to and, to be frank, at what point will you be ok walking away?

edit to add - your attempts in 2017 look off to me, even impulsive.Did you really prepare or just continue sitting for the test?

They are impulsive. And trust me, I’ve really learned my lesson the hard way unfortunately. My dad has cancer and I’m afraid he doesn’t have much longer to live. They’re impulsive because I was rushing to start and finish school. My dad really wants to see me be a doctor. I can see now that I wasn’t going about it the right way and obviously my emotions were dramatically impacting my judgment. I don’t want to get into too much detail about what makes my application great because I know that isn’t my problem. But to shallowly touch on my application, I have over 2000 hours of medical and non-medical volunteering. Over 500 hours of shadowing. I’ve worked since I was 15 years old to help support my family-worked 50+ hours weekly all throughout college up till now. I’ve had medical and non-medical jobs, I’ve always worked 2 at the same time while juggling school and still being able to achieve the 3.5 GPA that I did. My personal statement talks about how through shadowing I learned about liver disease which helped with my dads diagnosis of liver cancer when I rushed him to the ER when he started turning a little yellow. Unfortunately, I don’t think any of that matters with my 6 attempts and I’m on SDN now looking for a way to fix this one mistake.

 

[Pluto98]

They are impulsive. And trust me, I’ve really learned my lesson the hard way unfortunately. My dad has cancer and I’m afraid he doesn’t have much longer to live. They’re impulsive because I was rushing to start and finish school. My dad really wants to see me be a doctor. I can see now that I wasn’t going about it the right way and obviously my emotions were dramatically impacting my judgment. I don’t want to get into too much detail about what makes my application great because I know that isn’t my problem. But to shallowly touch on my application, I have over 2000 hours of medical and non-medical volunteering. Over 500 hours of shadowing. I’ve worked since I was 15 years old to help support my family-worked 50+ hours weekly all throughout college up till now. I’ve had medical and non-medical jobs, I’ve always worked 2 at the same time while juggling school and still being able to achieve the 3.5 GPA that I did. My personal statement talks about how through shadowing I learned about liver disease which helped with my dads diagnosis of liver cancer when I rushed him to the ER when he started turning a little yellow. Unfortunately, I don’t think any of that matters with my 6 attempts and I’m on SDN now looking for a way to fix this one mistake.

Only way is to score 515+ after a couple years and to play the 6 attempt as "I was young and stupid". Sort of like you would for an IA. Also, an SMP

 

[candbgirl]

You’ve applied twice? How many interviews have you had? Any at DO schools?

 

[jakeyb93]

Only way is to score 515+ after a couple years and to play the 6 attempt as "I was young and stupid". Sort of like you would for an IA. Also, an SMP

Can you tell me what IA and SMP mean please.

 

[Pluto98]

Can you tell me what IA and SMP mean please.

Institutional action (like you got caught cheating). SMP = gpa repair by doing a post bac

 

[jakeyb93]

You’ve applied twice? How many interviews have you had? Any at DO schools?

I had 2 interviews last cycle, both DO. Campbell and Marian. And I was basically waitlisted for both until school started. So I never got in.

 

[Shotapp]

I had 2 interviews last cycle, both DO. Campbell and Marian. And I was basically waitlisted for both until school started. So I never got in.

Your best chances are at the new DO schools.

 

[OKBoomer]

I took the MCAT 6 times also but scored mainly around 506. Got into an MD school after my 3rd cycle. It’s hard but it’s possible.

 

[deleted480308]

They are impulsive. And trust me, I’ve really learned my lesson the hard way unfortunately. My dad has cancer and I’m afraid he doesn’t have much longer to live. They’re impulsive because I was rushing to start and finish school. My dad really wants to see me be a doctor. I can see now that I wasn’t going about it the right way and obviously my emotions were dramatically impacting my judgment. I don’t want to get into too much detail about what makes my application great because I know that isn’t my problem. But to shallowly touch on my application, I have over 2000 hours of medical and non-medical volunteering. Over 500 hours of shadowing. I’ve worked since I was 15 years old to help support my family-worked 50+ hours weekly all throughout college up till now. I’ve had medical and non-medical jobs, I’ve always worked 2 at the same time while juggling school and still being able to achieve the 3.5 GPA that I did. My personal statement talks about how through shadowing I learned about liver disease which helped with my dads diagnosis of liver cancer when I rushed him to the ER when he started turning a little yellow. Unfortunately, I don’t think any of that matters with my 6 attempts and I’m on SDN now looking for a way to fix this one mistake.

Your phrasing in this thread is odd. You don’t have a great application. Full stop. You don’t. Maybe you can find someone to take you, maybe you can’t but you need to be a little more accurate with your self assessment. I got in without a great application so it happens but you have to know your place on the spectrum. At best You have a demonstrated history of playing flippantly with the most serious gatekeeper exam in medicine, at worst you would be among the least prepared for standardized exams in a med school class and lack basic knowledge. That’s your app right now. That’s what adcoms see when they read your file. No one cares that you had a job when you were in school. I did. No one cares, you have to produce and you didn’t. This process is cold that way.

Now start thinking about how you will convince them otherwise. You only need to convince one

 

[DNAJB6]

I had 2 interviews last cycle, both DO. Campbell and Marian. And I was basically waitlisted for both until school started. So I never got in.

This is good news as both showed interest. Why not reach out to those schools specifically and explain your situation. See if they have any advice to offer you about their respective admissions processes.

P.S. I'm sorry to hear about your father's illness.

 

[deleted804295]

Hey guys so I’ve been having a difficult time being accepted into a medical school because I have 6 MCAT attempts. I know I have a great application because I have friends with 1 or 2 attempts that have 509s+ that are being declined from schools that are putting me on hold. I have a 3.5 GPA also, so I’m positive that the MCAT attempts are what’s holding me back.

My scores and their dates are as follows:

September 2016 - 493
April 2017 - 497
June 2017 - 494
September 2017 - 503
August 2018 - 498
July 2019 - 506

I applied late this cycle so for the 2020 cycle I’m going to apply the first day everything opens. I have my application and secondaries ready and pre-written. I know scores are good for 3 years, so with this 2020 cycle coming up, even though medical schools see all scores, what are the chances they only consider my final 3 scores and that I have a genuine chance at an interview/acceptance? I want to be realistic with myself and want to know if I really need to invest my time in another career. I really want to be a doctor and I know I’ll make a great one so it just hurts that this one part of my application is blocking me from that. Thank you for your time.

You do not have a great application with 6 MCAT attempts all below the matriculant median.

Your best bet is applying DO next cycle.

 

[candbgirl]

You do not have a great application with 6 MCAT attempts all below the matriculant median.

Your best bet is applying DO next cycle.

OP did apply DO last cycle and was WL at two schools. But you are correct, nothing about this application is great.
OP if you were interviewed by 2 schools despite your MCAT history and were
WL->R , you don’t have a great application. So stop saying that. There is something that stopped you from receiving an A after you interviewed. It’s time you figure out what happened last cycle. You should have done it before you reapplied this cycle. Don’t apply again until you figure it out.

 

[mmchick]

OP, sorry to hear about your father's illness, that has got to be tough to deal with in the midst of all of this + your feelings of pressure. This process is not a race. It is not a race. Do yourself a huge favor and stop seeing it as one.

You have a lot to work on - the sooner you come to terms with that, the more serious you can get about strategizing for how you will fix the open wounds in your application. The thing about extenuating life circumstances and hardships is that those things are pivotal for creating a story about oneself within an application, and can push a borderline applicant over, but they do not by any means make a DOA -> borderline or make up for blatant stat deficits within one's application. You may get some heart strings tugged on some adcoms, but they'll have a very difficult time selling you to the rest of the committee as someone who can seriously handle the curriculum and pass the Step 1 (this may or may not have led to the WL->R's that you mention).

Do not apply next round. Re-take your MCAT with adequate preparation (4-7 mos.) to where you're scoring 515+ on at least 2-3 practice FLs ahead of the real thing. Like someone mentioned, you have to show that you've finally conquered this exam and that those impulsive <500s were a thing of the past driven by the emotions you so describe. Applying this round with your current stats is the equivalent of your house burning down, pitching a tent inside, and refusing to let the town condemn it.

 

[Anion]

Only way is to score 515+ after a couple years and to play the 6 attempt as "I was young and stupid". Sort of like you would for an IA. Also, an SMP

OP has ONE MCAT attempt left for life. I would highly recommend OP not use it until absolutely necessary. Ideally, after taking time away to get more space between mistakes in 2017 and a future application.

You asked above if you still have a shot at medicine and honestly I’m doubtful. Maybe with an SMP. Maybe with a few years of work experience, post bac classes, a much improved MCAT. But you are one of the few applicants an admissions committee will encounter with 6 or 7 MCAT attempts

 

[Zen Arcade]

Your phrasing in this thread is odd. You don’t have a great application. Full stop. You don’t. Maybe you can find someone to take you, maybe you can’t but you need to be a little more accurate with your self assessment. I got in without a great application so it happens but you have to know your place on the spectrum. At best You have a demonstrated history of playing flippantly with the most serious gatekeeper exam in medicine, at worst you would be among the least prepared for standardized exams in a med school class and lack basic knowledge. That’s your app right now. That’s what adcoms see when they read your file. No one cares that you had a job when you were in school. I did. No one cares, you have to produce and you didn’t. This process is cold that way.

Now start thinking about how you will convince them otherwise. You only need to convince one

I read this in the voice of Ron Swanson and it was gold.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[deleted994889]

You've dug yourself into a very large hole. You've had some unfortunate circumstances, but you still need to demonstrate the ability to survive the rigors of medical school. Are you telling your story effectively? Are your essays well written? Are your LORs strong? Are you interviewing well? Even you are super sure you've done all that, you're still at a major disadvantage.

Do not rush into a third attempt this coming cycle. You say you've learned your lesson about being impulsive, but you've gotta show it. Doing an SMP then taking the MCAT after full preparation is the only way you can truly demonstrate your ability to handle med school. It's gonna take longer, but if you truly want to be a physician, you gotta do it.

BTW, the "I want to be a doctor because my [relative] has cancer," while true and very unfortunate, is almost never a good angle and very rarely executed tastefully. Taking time off with the SMP may help you find a better narrative to present.

 

[Whysoez]

Hey guys so I’ve been having a difficult time being accepted into a medical school because I have 6 MCAT attempts. I know I have a great application because I have friends with 1 or 2 attempts that have 509s+ that are being declined from schools that are putting me on hold. I have a 3.5 GPA also, so I’m positive that the MCAT attempts are what’s holding me back.

My scores and their dates are as follows:

September 2016 - 493
April 2017 - 497
June 2017 - 494
September 2017 - 503
August 2018 - 498
July 2019 - 506

I applied late this cycle so for the 2020 cycle I’m going to apply the first day everything opens. I have my application and secondaries ready and pre-written. I know scores are good for 3 years, so with this 2020 cycle coming up, even though medical schools see all scores, what are the chances they only consider my final 3 scores and that I have a genuine chance at an interview/acceptance? I want to be realistic with myself and want to know if I really need to invest my time in another career. I really want to be a doctor and I know I’ll make a great one so it just hurts that this one part of my application is blocking me from that. Thank you for your time.

I have seen this pattern of impulsiveness before, this is exactly how I tackled my driving permit written exam lol.

All jokes asides, OP, all of the advices listed above, follow them all.

 

[KnightDoc]

I don't mean to pile on, and I really don't want to be redundant, but OP asked a question that I didn't see answered, and I'm curious as to what the answer is. He wondered whether his 3 oldest scores would "time out" due to their being more than 3 years old, and whether this would somehow enhance his reapplication. My sense is that, given he has 6 attempts, nobody is going to give him any slack and ignore his 3 oldest scores to allow his average to go from 498.5 to 502.3 (as though that would make a huge difference), but nobody in a position to know answered this yet!

Also, just my 2 cents, but I think it's a little harsh (and a little unrealistic) to tell OP he needs to be above 515 on his final attempt for him to be viable. Why wouldn't a 510+, especially given where he started and given his perseverance, be enough to get some DO to bite, particularly one of the ones who interviewed him previously?

Of course, OP needs to realize, as was stated previously, that he only gets one more MCAT FOR LIFE, no exceptions, no waivers, and if he blows it he probably needs to move on because he'll never have another opportunity to address that deficiency, no matter what he does to improve the rest of his application, so additional application cycles after that will be pointless.

I'm only asking to help OP focus his inquiry and to add to my body of knowledge, but I am truly curious about whether his scores older than 3 years would be ignored and whether he really needs to be above 515 on his final MCAT.

 

[DNAJB6]

I don't mean to pile on, and I really don't want to be redundant, but OP asked a question that I didn't see answered, and I'm curious as to what the answer is. He wondered whether his 3 oldest scores would "time out" due to their being more than 3 years old, and whether this would somehow enhance his reapplication. My sense is that, given he has 6 attempts, nobody is going to give him any slack and ignore his 3 oldest scores to allow his average to go from 498.5 to 502.3 (as though that would make a huge difference), but nobody in a position to know answered this yet!

Per the AAMC all MCAT scores from 1991 to the present are included on your score report so schools are definitely going to see all six attempts. Whether each school accepts an average, the highest score, or some hybrid is dependent on the individual program. He would need to consult MSAR for schools of interest. Regardless of any school's written policy, I find it hard to believe that the other six scores are going to magically be ignored no matter how old.

 

[KnightDoc]

Per the AAMC all MCAT scores from 1991 to the present are included on your score report so schools are definitely going to see all six attempts. Whether each school accepts an average, the highest score, or some hybrid is dependent on the individual program. He would need to consult MSAR for schools of interest. Regardless of any school's written policy, I find it hard to believe that the other six scores are going to magically be ignored no matter how old.

I agree, but the question goes beyond that due to the unique circumstances of his situation. Pretty much nobody has 6 scores, so the fact that all scores show on a report is not the issue.

Remember, most schools, per MSAR, say scores need to be less than 3 years old. So the question is whether they ignore scores that they wouldn't accept if they were good! I agree with you, given the fact that there were 6 tests, but, to OPs question, it's probably a little unfair that they will count scores against him that they wouldn't let him use if they were good!

 

[deleted859689]

I agree, but the question goes beyond that due to the unique circumstances of his situation. Pretty much nobody has 6 scores, so the fact that all scores show on a report is not the issue.

Remember, most schools, per MSAR, say scores need to be less than 3 years old. So the question is whether they ignore scores that they wouldn't accept if they were good! I agree with you, given the fact that there were 6 tests, but, to OPs question, it's probably a little unfair that they will count scores against him that they wouldn't let him use if they were good!

I don’t think it’s unfair to count multiple MCAT against someone at all - why take someone who took it twice over someone who got a great score the first time? Even if it is expired, all those attempts would make someone wonder why.

 

[GreenDuck12]

I think the 515-518 comment from @gonnif reflect that this would be the OP's last MCAT attempt and needs to do well enough to both demonstrate mastery of the material and cause an admissions committee to want to invest time and resources interviewing them. I am doubtful a 70th or 80th percentile would be enough. The advice above is solid regarding SMPs etc.

OP, best of luck to you. As the poster above mentioned, this isn’t a race. I decided to take night classes to do a career change to medicine at 25 and will be starting medical school at 30. It’s better to take the time to do things well from here on out.

 

[KnightDoc]

I don’t think it’s unfair to count multiple MCAT against someone at all - why take someone who took it twice over someone who got a great score the first time? Even if it is expired, all those attempts would make someone wonder why.

I agree -- 6 attempts is excessive and points to something that should legitimately concern any adcom. But, on the other hand, is it fair to count a score against an applicant (i.e., an "expired" 493, 494 and 497) when he wouldn't be allowed to use the scores if they were 520s?

I agreed in my first post on this that I doubted any adcom would cut him slack, but I'm still waiting for an adcom to definitively state that old scores would count and not be considered expired in these circumstances.

By the way, I'm not suggesting that anyone ignore that he has 6 (or soon to be 7) attempts, or that whatever negative inference that follows from that should be discounted. I'm just questioning the fairness of empirically counting scores against him in his average that he wouldn't be allowed to use to satisfy the MCAT requirement if they were high.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Why not consider the PA path? You wouldn’t use the MCAT. The GRE is easier to prepare for. How many hours do you have of hands on patient care?

 

[Whysoez]

Why not consider the PA path? You wouldn’t use the MCAT. The GRE is easier to prepare for. How many hours do you have of hands on patient care?

Realistically speaking this might very well be the next step for OP

 

[deleted859689]

Realistically speaking this might very well be the next step for OP

OP, don’t underestimate the competitiveness of PA school either. There is a dedicated PA forum on another site. I’ve been on there and it’s not pretty.

 

[candbgirl]

I still can’t wrap my mind around taking the MCAT four times in 12 months. That is bizarre and rather frightening.

 

[TwoHighways]

OP, don’t underestimate the competitiveness of PA school either. There is a dedicated PA forum on another site. I’ve been on there and it’s not pretty.

No joke. One of the things that dissuaded me from applying to PA school was how competitive it was (at least for programs in my home state).

 

[Pluto98]

No joke. One of the things that dissuaded me from applying to PA school was how competitive it was (at least for programs in my home state).

Competitive how so?

 

[KnightDoc]

Competitive how so?

They are no joke. They have less status than MDs and DOs, but they are academically rigorous, they do a lot of the routine things a family doctor would do, they make decent money, they have regular hours, and they require a lot less training to start earning a six figure living, so there is a ton of competition among not only people who are not successful applying to med schools, but also among people who prioritize lifestyle over running the gauntlet to become doctors.

 

[Whysoez]

They are no joke. They have less status than MDs and DOs, but they are academically rigorous, they do a lot of the routine things a family doctor would do, they make decent money, they have regular hours, and they require a lot less training to start earning a six figure living, so there is a ton of competition among not only people who are not successful applying to med schools, but also among people who prioritize lifestyle over running the gauntlet to become doctors.

Many PA programs are only 2 years.

 

[deleted480308]

They are no joke. They have less status than MDs and DOs, but they are academically rigorous, they do a lot of the routine things a family doctor would do, they make decent money, they have regular hours, and they require a lot less training to start earning a six figure living, so there is a ton of competition among not only people who are not successful applying to med schools, but also among people who prioritize lifestyle over running the gauntlet to become doctors.

They don’t do what doctors do any more than I do what kasparov does when I play chess. There’s levels to this

It is however a well paid gig for the time investment which feeds the supply/demand curve

 

[LiftingMed]

There are lists floating around on here on schools that look at the most recent MCAT, take the average, etc. AAMC may recommend taking the average, but many schools do not. But seeing that OP did get acceptances in the past to DO schools, they still have a shot at DO.

OP, as you said, you know you applied late (and still received some interviews), only thing you can change now is to apply earlier this cycle and see if anything bites, if not, you're almost at the lifetime max of MCAT retakes, so your options are going to be more limited after this.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Why not consider the PA path? You wouldn’t use the MCAT. The GRE is easier to prepare for. How many hours do you have of hands on patient care?

Another possible option would be to become a podiatrist. They seem to accept those MCAT scores.