VitaminK

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Hey I have a friend on a FP rotation in Indiana and the residents there told her that they easily can make $70,000 a year during residency. They actually told her if you don't then you're doing something wrong. I don't know the specifics of the program, but I know they make around 40K in salary and then have lots of extra ways to earn money such as extra calls, doing a days worth of high school physicals ,etc. How is this possible when other programs' residents will only earn 30K? Was anyone have of any other programs like this?? Or do you know of any other ways to make a little extra money during residency?
 

Pilot

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ER shifts on weekends and nights. My FP program has a "pipeline" to a local rural hospital which sees roughly 5 patients per day - get there Friday night and leave Monday morning. Rarely awakened at night. Told to take Lovenox with you to prevent clots from inactivity. Pay $50/hr = $3000/weekend. :eek:
 

(nicedream)

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Pilot said:
ER shifts on weekends and nights. My FP program has a "pipeline" to a local rural hospital which sees roughly 5 patients per day - get there Friday night and leave Monday morning. Rarely awakened at night. Told to take Lovenox with you to prevent clots from inactivity. Pay $50/hr = $3000/weekend. :eek:
What program is this?? Wtf, you could do just that and make $150K a year. I don't get it.
 
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BellKicker

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(nicedream) said:
What program is this?? Wtf, you could do just that and make $150K a year. I don't get it.
My thoughts exactly.

Is this opportunity available to board certified FPs, too? Is seems like they'd make more money that way than in private practice. Or at least they could boost their income by doing a weekend a month in this fashion.
 

Seaglass

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Wtf, you could do just that and make $150K a year.
You have to remember that this is like minimum wage, it does not include the costs of malpractice insurance (usually), health benefits, etc. Once you take those things out it actually would be quite less.

Usually these hospitals are paying for moonlighters because they can't afford a bc/be emergency doc, so overall it's cheaper for them.

C
 

bigmuny

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I know several residents making more than 70K a year. There are numerous opportunities to moonlight(pays b/w 50-90/hr) in ER, jails, urgent care.... So, if you are willing to hustle and give up your off time, you can do OK during residency(esp in FP, IM, ER, Psych) If you are a board certified, private practice FP making less than 150K a year you are really doing something wrong(I have yet to meet a doc, other than in academics making less than that).
 

(nicedream)

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bigmuny said:
If you are a board certified, private practice FP making less than 150K a year you are really doing something wrong(I have yet to meet a doc, other than in academics making less than that).
Every salary survey out there says the avg. FP salary, before taxes/malpractice etc, is about 120,000. NONE of them list it as over 140,000.
 

(nicedream)

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cg1155 said:
You have to remember that this is like minimum wage, it does not include the costs of malpractice insurance (usually), health benefits, etc. Once you take those things out it actually would be quite less.

C
But no listed salaries include expenses (taxes, malpractice...) - 150,000 is still high for an FP, and even for an ER doc, average.
 

Seaglass

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But no listed salaries include expenses (taxes, malpractice...)
How malpractice is handled varies from group to group but in my experience for most EM docs it is covered by their group or uber-employer. There are more than a few EM docs who work as "contractors" for hospitals where they have to pay all their own benefits. Usually they get a higher gross salary. Among the third year residents I worked with and met on the interview trail last fall, none were looking at positions that paid less than 175k with malpractice covered. Of course that is a limited sample size!

C
 

Pilot

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(nicedream) said:
What program is this?? Wtf, you could do just that and make $150K a year. I don't get it.
Great Plains Family Practice in Oklahoma City. I won't tell you the ER so no one will try to "steal" it.

One of my questions I asked every residency I interviewed at was 1) whether moonlighting was allowed and 2) did the program have any precedence with the residents working at certain locations. I will definitely need the supplemental income while in residency, so these questions were very important to me.
 
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USFOptho

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(nicedream) said:
Every salary survey out there says the avg. FP salary, before taxes/malpractice etc, is about 120,000. NONE of them list it as over 140,000.

Actually, those are gross, post all expenses, but before taxes.

Seacrest out- FUBAR
 

(nicedream)

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USFOptho said:
Actually, those are gross, post all expenses, but before taxes.

Seacrest out- FUBAR
Are you sure? I was under the impression that they were pre-malpractice.
 

Pepe

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I interviewed at the FP program in Tyler, Texas and one of the third years there made over $120,000 in moonlighting last year. He was moonlighting practically every weekend but he was pulling down an extra 10k a month.
I am going to a program in Washington Pa. which has the most outstanding benefits I've seen for residency. It's almost unbelievable. You don't "make" 70k a year as an intern, but the money you do make is almost all discretionary. I would say if you added all the benefits in, you would have to make about 65K to equal it (salary, housing, insurance).
 

(nicedream)

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So from what everyone is saying it sounds like an FP resident, by moonlighting, can make as much as a specialist in private practice. So why do FP's in practice make so much less?
 

Dr_Jay_wannabe

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I think the answer to your question (from the docs that I've shadowed) for not moonlighting more is the fact that they care more about lifestyle.
Think about it for a while. Are you going into medicine to help people, or are you doing it just for the money?
The docs that I've shadowed have the same mindset as I do, "what extra benefits do you want after making $100,000 a year?" Is there really a reason to make more? All that extra money goes where?
The salaries for doctors are too relative. Sure, your loans are high and as an FP your not making half as much as some dermatologists, but how many doctors do you see complaining because they couldn't pay off their loans???

My advice for anyone who is worried about the money going into family practice is to live a happy life, and happy doesn't mean rich. My parents raised my brother and I on a combined income of $60,000. I had an awesome childhood and we had a great family life, we just never wasted money. We were still able to do things like fly to Orlando from South Dakota for summer vacation.

If you want to be a family doc, you have to appreciate the family lifestyle. If not, then maybe you want to rethink your reasons for choosing Family Medicine. People today are just so fed-up with money. We all need to re-prioritize, including myself.

Dr_Jay_Wannabe
 

(nicedream)

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Dr_Jay_wannabe said:
I think the answer to your question (from the docs that I've shadowed) for not moonlighting more is the fact that they care more about lifestyle.
Think about it for a while. Are you going into medicine to help people, or are you doing it just for the money?
The docs that I've shadowed have the same mindset as I do, "what extra benefits do you want after making $100,000 a year?" Is there really a reason to make more? All that extra money goes where?
The salaries for doctors are too relative. Sure, your loans are high and as an FP your not making half as much as some dermatologists, but how many doctors do you see complaining because they couldn't pay off their loans???

My advice for anyone who is worried about the money going into family practice is to live a happy life, and happy doesn't mean rich. My parents raised my brother and I on a combined income of $60,000. I had an awesome childhood and we had a great family life, we just never wasted money. We were still able to do things like fly to Orlando from South Dakota for summer vacation.

If you want to be a family doc, you have to appreciate the family lifestyle. If not, then maybe you want to rethink your reasons for choosing Family Medicine. People today are just so fed-up with money. We all need to re-prioritize, including myself.

Dr_Jay_Wannabe
I appreciate your sentiment, but my logic tells me that it can't be the case that Family Docs just choose not to make the big bucks. If it was possible to go into FP and make Derm $, then those that go into Derm, or any spec., for the $ would just go FP.
 
C

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You can make derm money as a fp but not in the same amount of time. I think thats what Dr_Jay was getting at. I'm sure if you work 20 hrs a day you could pull down a pretty hefty sum, but is the trade off really worth it?
 

dr.smurf

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the $$$ is in procedures. fp's should get training and keep up their procedural skills. medicare reimburses good money for joint injections and derm procedures and these dont take but a few minutes
 

sammccreedy

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Pilot said:
ER shifts on weekends and nights. My FP program has a "pipeline" to a local rural hospital which sees roughly 5 patients per day - get there Friday night and leave Monday morning. Rarely awakened at night. Told to take Lovenox with you to prevent clots from inactivity. Pay $50/hr = $3000/weekend. :eek:
Where is this hospital???
 

Pilot

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Lindsay, OK. Many of our residents have switched to another ER however, because Lindsay quit providing malpractice insurance. They did offer $5000 for the July 4th holiday, but no one from my program took them up on it.

I have also come across a few more ways to make extra money if needed for your consideration. Apparently some pediatricians will pay other physicians to do circs for them - I am considering throwing my name into the hat for extra circ money. My residency charges $350 for circs - if the normal pediatrician charges the same I might be able to be paid $100 or more from the pediatrician who then receives payment from the family.

Also, some doctors who are late on their dictations pay other physicians for dictating discharge summaries. $20 a pop is the going rate at our institution currently, and they are unable to find doctors willing to dictate for them. The consensus is the rates will be going up shortly. If you are proficient, you can make some good money while waiting around for that next admission.
 
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