A Big Review of California IM Programs

[Inquisitive]

I went to med school there. Generally, the residents are happy and it is a supportive program. The PD is awesome. They had implemented a night float system for awhile last year and the residents did not like it that much, so they listened to them and went back to the traditional q5 call schedule. The upper level residents I worked with as a student all were going on to fellowships of choice--GI, Cards, Pulm/Crit Care, Nephro. Some stay at Davis, some go elsewhere. The noon conferences were usually pretty good. There is good patient diversity since UCDMC is both a county and a tertiary center covering CA north to the OR border.

The major con for many is Sacramento. It's a decent-sized city with some nightlife, great outdoor activities, lower cost of living, good proximity to Tahoe/Bay Area. But it's not SF/LA/SD so you have to decide if it's a good fit for you.

Thanks gleevac!

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[Inquisitive]

bump! Any info on UCI or UCD?

I did an extramural rotation at UCI. In general, the residents are very happy, easy going, and are extremely nice and friendly. The attendings tend to teach a lot but most of their attendings are young. They have a good patient population and tend to take their own for fellowships. Since they take their own residents, most of the fellows know the second and third years and are great about teaching. I met with their PD who is extremely nice and seems receptive to feedback from the residents. I am not sure why it's not more popular, especially since it's a UC school.

 

[doc luv]

anyone have any updates on USC since they've moved into the new hospital? is it still a "mess" as stated by the OP? I have an interview scheduled there and am wondering if it's worth the trip to go cross country...

 

[caligold]

anyone have any updates on USC since they've moved into the new hospital? is it still a "mess" as stated by the OP? I have an interview scheduled there and am wondering if it's worth the trip to go cross country...

I interviewed there last week, and had concerns based on what I had read on sdn. If you want a hard-core county experience it seemed great. The new hospital was very impressive, and the health sciences campus is undergoing a big expansion. They also take a lot of there own for fellowship training. The call is q4 for 9 months and it is a busy place.... I'd love to hear from some USC insiders though...

 

[bof]

I am not sure why it's not more popular, especially since it's a UC school.

Not to hate on UCI because I am sure that it is a great program for some people. But to answer your question, a couple of reasons:

1. Research opportunities
2. Academic reputation
3. Fellowship placement
4. Diversity of training experience
5. Geographical consideration

 

[vrandhawa01]

I just IVed at USC and loved the new hospital. I'm a so cal girl so it's on the top of my list. but i do have my fears nonetheless....anyone have any reviews on the program? and perhaps on Loma Linda as well? those are my two so cal programs and i know that they're both VERY different programs so....any reviews would be nice. thanks!

 

[bof]

I just IVed at USC and loved the new hospital. I'm a so cal girl so it's on the top of my list. but i do have my fears nonetheless....anyone have any reviews on the program? and perhaps on Loma Linda as well? those are my two so cal programs and i know that they're both VERY different programs so....any reviews would be nice. thanks!

Hmm? Did you read the prior reviews on the program (USC)? I saw at least 2 posts on it. What else do you want to know about it? Sounds like you really want to train in socal. If I were you I would just rank the program I liked better. I don't think one is significantly better than the other.

boF

 

[vrandhawa01]

Hmm? Did you read the prior reviews on the program (USC)? I saw at least 2 posts on it. What else do you want to know about it? Sounds like you really want to train in socal. If I were you I would just rank the program I liked better. I don't think one is significantly better than the other.

boF

i did read the prior reviews of usc but they're also pretty old. nothing new since the opening of the new hospital. and i havent really read ANY reviews on loma linda...? there's no doubt i want to train in socal but i also interviewed at St. Mary's in San Fran, which was great since they've started implementing Healthy San Francisco, a universal health concept. in addition to those three programs, i hit UCSF-Fresno, Bakersfield - Kern, Kaiser Santa Clara, San Joaquin General Hospital, Maricopa in AZ, and Im heading out to UNLV - vegas tomorrow. any reviews would be great! at this point, for me, location is the most imp factor...but every place im IVing at is also a 1 hour flight max, so im open to all.

 

[vrandhawa01]

hello?

 

[bof]

hello?

I am glad that you like the new hospital at USC. However the program is really the same. Same strengths and weaknesses as before. Same ridiculous call schedule in intern year, lack of research time, crazy county population, etc.

But compared to the other places that you are interviewing at, I would probably rank it pretty high if only for location.

 

[vrandhawa01]

any opinion on kaiser santa clara or loma linda? thx bof...

 

[halodoctor]

🙂
6. THANK GOODNESS we dont see a lot of "bread and butter" medicine. How BORING is it just see alcoholic 30-somethings, or run of the mill cellulitis. I mean, come on, most 2nd year medical students could manange that- do you REALLY have to go to IM residency to learn those things

not very nice

 

[slippers82]

bump.

great thread, esp for someone on the outside looking in. it seems hard to penetrate the UC system but i'll keep trying! on the upside, a handful from our fourth year class matched to USC+LAC, Kaiser-fresno, Scripps Mercy.

 

[friedcfood]

IM-intern here at USC. Overall, pretty happy here.
if you have specific q's about this program, please post them here or PM.

 

[SCVMC]

The rumor is somewhat true. Stanford hospital does cater the more affluent population, and Santa Clara to the indigent population. That said, patients who are admitted by way of Stanford ED can vary greatly. Stanford IM housestaff spends something like 3-4 months at Santa Clara over 3 years of residency. It's up to the applicant to decide whether that's enough indigent exposure.

actually stanford residents spend only 1 month during their training (as an intern). residents can then elect to do another month as an R2 or R3, but then this is assigned by lottery. if you want a county or indigent experience then you should just go to santa clara valley which has it's own residency program which is quite good and friendly.

 

[flabs]

Can anyone remark on the Kaiser Nor Cal programs (Santa Clara, SF, Oakland). the good/bad of each? They all brag that their residents get fellowships - but can anyone shine anymore light on this?

Also, some food for thought...? I'm interested in Heme/Onc and considering the above programs as well as USC. The addage says "go to the academic program" - but how does the fellowship placement compare between the Kaisers and USC. Not only that, with the malignant rumors of USC abound - would you really make the pick of USC of a Kaiser?

Thanks for your feedback

 

[USCgal]

Rumors about USC being malig are just that...rumors. I'm an intern at USC right now, and its hard work, but not malignant. The residents are super friendly and helpful, even if they aren't the medicine residents.

I was stressed out about a patient once, and my R3's patient was unstable too, and I was in a pinch, and asked a resident who was around for some help/advice, and even though the guy was a urology resident, he took the time to help out. This is what I've noticed for all the residents at USC, no matter what program they are in.

Plus, the patients you will see at USC are amazing. You will see more bread and butter at the Kaisers. 😎

 

[flabs]

Rumors about USC being malig are just that...rumors. I'm an intern at USC right now, and its hard work, but not malignant. The residents are super friendly and helpful, even if they aren't the medicine residents.

I was stressed out about a patient once, and my R3's patient was unstable too, and I was in a pinch, and asked a resident who was around for some help/advice, and even though the guy was a urology resident, he took the time to help out. This is what I've noticed for all the residents at USC, no matter what program they are in.

Plus, the patients you will see at USC are amazing. You will see more bread and butter at the Kaisers. 😎

Thanks for the input USCgal. Any information is good information. How is the new hospital? In regards to the many "rumors" - are there still multiple patients per room (not that this is necessarily a bad thing), I've heard nursing and ancillary staff can be malignant, how about scut work?

Also regarding fellowship placement...how do people usually do? Does USC take a lot of their own? Thanks for your time 🙂

 

[USCgal]

Thanks for the input USCgal. Any information is good information. How is the new hospital? In regards to the many "rumors" - are there still multiple patients per room (not that this is necessarily a bad thing), I've heard nursing and ancillary staff can be malignant, how about scut work?

Also regarding fellowship placement...how do people usually do? Does USC take a lot of their own? Thanks for your time 🙂

The new hospital is nice, and has a simple layout. Not a hard place to figure out quickly. As for multiple patients per room, there are single rooms and double rooms. No more than 2 patients per room. And the nursing staff are not bad at all. There are a few nurses (very few) that are less than stellar, but not enough to make me think of the whole nursing and ancillary staff as bad and malig. Plus, you are going to have bad apples at every hospital. Scut work, well there is a little, but nothing excessive. You do have to deal with a bunch of social issues, which you will probably have to do less of at somewhere like Kaiser, since most of those people have insurance and a home.

But the place is very cool. I have a certain interest, and I tell the R3 and R2 I'm on call with, and all of them have been very cool about sending those patients my way if they get them. I also like the way the call schedule is set up. You aren't on call with your team, but for your team. You do cross cover for all the patient on your team. Being on call with a different R3 and R2 is cool b/c you get to see how other people do things. And USC has recently initiated a Green Service, that is a non-teaching service, run by attending. We get to transfer patients to the Green team if they are "rocks" but will be discharged within the next two weeks or so.

As for fellowships, I think they do tend to pull their own, but I don't really know enough about this to be of much help. Ask the chiefs when you come for an interview. 😀

 

[zzyy]

KAISER SUNSET:
Director is definitely a great salesman but don't be surprised when you get a lemon.
The breakdown:
ADVERTISED: frequency of call q4-8 during wards, short call to 9pm, research opportunities, academics, program very receptive to change, no overnight call

REALITY: can sometimes have call q2, short call is to 11pm, overnight on Saturdays, barely any faculty does research and very difficult to get started, extra call during winter months, does not practice evidence based medicine, no journal club, no M&Ms, no accountability, if you do not have something positive to say then basically you are ignored and nothing changes or gets addressed, expect to take ICU overnight call without ever doing ICU first, the bottom line is that as an intern you type progress notes and discharge summaries all day long and compile all the consultant notes in one and don't do much yourself as the medicine team, learn to practice defensive and often wasteful medicine, electronic system is great except 1/2 the orders don't go thorough most of the time and everyone copies each others' notes, don't expect good teaching, poor history of taking own residents into fellowship

 

[tarlovcyst]

Q2 call is ridiculous for the wards. I wouldn't even go to a program like that, even if it was 2 months of wards for the whole year. Q4 is bad enough. I can't imaging what ICU call would be like if the wards are Q2.

How about Loma Linda? Any information?

 

[codeb1ue]

I'm curious about scripps-mercy and scripps-green. Any info on these programs? I know they're literally across the street from UCSD so I would imagine UCSD takes all the complicated and interesting cases.

 

[ResidentMD]

Q2 call is ridiculous for the wards. I wouldn't even go to a program like that, even if it was 2 months of wards for the whole year. Q4 is bad enough. I can't imaging what ICU call would be like if the wards are Q2.

How about Loma Linda? Any information?

In all probability, that person was a troll, considering this was his/her first post. But I may be wrong.

 

[nickster]

Someone mentioned in an earlier post; actually 2 years ago; that UCSF offered a housing subsidy. Anyone know if this is factual? I heard a simular rumor about Stanford. This could be very important in decision making, since these are two very expensive places to live.

 

[Inquisitive]

I'm curious about scripps-mercy and scripps-green. Any info on these programs? I know they're literally across the street from UCSD so I would imagine UCSD takes all the complicated and interesting cases.

Scripps Mercy is a great county program, the house staff looked very happy and their training in general medicine is outstanding. However, their match list didn't look that impressive compared to other programs in Southern California. But, if you are looking to be a hospitalist or a general internist then you will get excellent training there. The housestaff definitely see very interesting cases simply because they are a county program and have a diverse patient population.

Scripps Green is a private hospital and their match list is better than Scripps Mercy but still not as good as other So. Cal programs like UCSD, UCLA, Harbor-UCLA. There are plenty of research oppurtunities and the house staff looked pretty happy here. There seems to be less autonomy here and as far as I know fellows/ attendings run their codes. Their patient population is also not very diverse.. mostly older,affluent patients.

 

[Frugal Traveler]

Someone mentioned in an earlier post; actually 2 years ago; that UCSF offered a housing subsidy. Anyone know if this is factual? I heard a simular rumor about Stanford. This could be very important in decision making, since these are two very expensive places to live.

For UCSF:
http://medicine.ucsf.edu/education/residency/application/comp.html

$7,200 (housing stipend) + $2,400 (one-time moving stipend)


Stanford's website does not contain much information:
http://medicine.stanford.edu/education/stipends.html

For me, Stanford remains one of the most nebulous programs out there along with UPenn... hard to find the "word on the street" about either of these excellent programs. Getting an invite from Stanford (250 candidates interviewed a year) is analogous to getting to see Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory... I really hope to get a golden ticket and surely will get a better haircut than Charlie.

 

[indiamacbean]

Stanford is cool but I'm not sure I would put it up there with the Wonka Factory. If anything, you will be more of an oompa loompa than Charlie himself but this is true regardless of where you go. Make sure you kick the tires and look under the hood at Stanford. Not being a resident there but being close by with many friends in or completing the program it has ups and downs.
as to compensation between Stanford and UCSF, when all is said and done, I think that Stanford residents make slightly more than we do. really though, it is NOT hard to live a good like on the salary at either hospital and I wouldn't let that swat your decision in either way.

 

[codeb1ue]

Thanks for the replies! Last one that I'm strongly considering in CA is Harbor-UCLA. Anyone here with good knowledge of their program? I know they've made vast improvements recently regarding ancillary staff. I also know they have a fairly decent match list. How is the program in general? Good support from staff? Thanks in advance.

 

[flabs]

can any USC residents remark on how many inpatient medicine months they have to do each year?

 

[tarlovcyst]

can any USC residents remark on how many inpatient medicine months they have to do each year?

I'm not a USC resident, but I know a few years back, it was something ridiculous like 9 or 10. Please tell me it's come down to 6.

 

[flabs]

I'm not a USC resident, but I know a few years back, it was something ridiculous like 9 or 10. Please tell me it's come down to 6.

I had heard that several years ago it was 11 (ouch!), but they brought it down to a more humane, 9 🙄

But their website would lead me to believe it's at 5 now!

http://www.usc.edu/schools/medicine/departments/medicine/education/residency/rotation.html

I just wanted to get some confirmation/rejection of this...

 

[Inquisitive]

Thanks for the replies! Last one that I'm strongly considering in CA is Harbor-UCLA. Anyone here with good knowledge of their program? I know they've made vast improvements recently regarding ancillary staff. I also know they have a fairly decent match list. How is the program in general? Good support from staff? Thanks in advance.

I am an intern at Harbor. We have a 24 hour phlebotomy team for labs, blood cultures and ABGs (done by respiratory therapists), PICC line nurses, IV nurses, rapid response team for medical emergencies and patient transportation.

We also have a good match list. http://harboruclamed.com/Alumni.html

There is no doubt that you will get excellent training at Harbor. You will see really interesting cases, work with fun, bright and friendly residents and faculty and have a great time doing it. I have loved my intern year so far. You never feel like you are alone yet you get to make your own decisions. The residents and faculty love to teach and look out for you. You actually enjoy your time in the hospital because of the people around you.

We also have great lectures. Every week we have an evidence based medicine lecture, journal club, primary care lectures, Morbidity and Mortality conference ( my favorite!) and Intern report along with Morning report every day except Tuesdays when we have Grand Rounds.

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can answer any other questions.

 

[scalres]

KAISER SUNSET:
Director is definitely a great salesman but don't be surprised when you get a lemon.
The breakdown:
ADVERTISED: frequency of call q4-8 during wards, short call to 9pm, research opportunities, academics, program very receptive to change, no overnight call

REALITY: can sometimes have call q2, short call is to 11pm, overnight on Saturdays, barely any faculty does research and very difficult to get started, extra call during winter months, does not practice evidence based medicine, no journal club, no M&Ms, no accountability, if you do not have something positive to say then basically you are ignored and nothing changes or gets addressed, expect to take ICU overnight call without ever doing ICU first, the bottom line is that as an intern you type progress notes and discharge summaries all day long and compile all the consultant notes in one and don't do much yourself as the medicine team, learn to practice defensive and often wasteful medicine, electronic system is great except 1/2 the orders don't go thorough most of the time and everyone copies each others' notes, don't expect good teaching, poor history of taking own residents into fellowship

I’m a Kaiser categorical intern and absolutely love it here at Kaiser. When I ranked Kaiser, I looked for a tertiary care program that provided a nonhostile, friendly environment. Granted, I’m an intern, so I’ve only been here for 4-5 months so I have yet to learn more about the residency program. However, compared to other IM programs that my friends are in, I feel like Kaiser has a very nonmalignant, homey atmosphere with great camaraderie between all the interns/residents and even most attendings.

Calls:
- Kaiser provides a schedule for its interns and residents that follows ACGME requirements. Many times when I log my hours (truthfully), I find that I’m averaging 60hrs/week. This is far less than what my other friends can say about other medicine programs.
- I’m not sure where q2d calls comes from, but I don’t’ think many of us have ever faced that problem. Generally we take 1 call/week, sometimes 2. Call on weekdays and Sundays means that you admit and stay until 11pm. Strict reinforcement has been made that the admitting team does not stay past 11pm. The only overnight call we have on wards is on Saturday nights (which you get at most 1x/month on wards or unit months for a total of 4-7x/year of any form of overnight call). In addition, there is a guaranteed 4hr protected sleep time for any call >24 hours.
- In terms of this “extra call during winter months”, as most of you know, the swine flu is pandemic and is hitting southern California especially hard. As a result of that, our ER and hospital floors have been especially busy even in the summer/fall months and we anticipate it to be even worse during the winter months. Thus, they have asked that each resident/intern be pulled to help with the admissions. This extra shift is from 5-11pm or 12am? and takes place during your less busy months (meaning ambulatory, elective months) and does not include weekends/holidays. At most, you will have MAXIMUM of 1-2 of these shifts during the entire winter months.
- “Expect to take ICU overnight call without ever doing ICU first” – not sure if this is true, and never heard of this.

Faculty/Research/Curriculum
- It is true that many faculty members don’t conduct research, however I don’t think it’s very difficult to get started. Of course, this is a tertiary care/academic program so it won’t be as easy as an academic program, but there are research advisors who are extremely eager and willing to help. There are also more then plenty of research projects at Kaiser itself. Plus there are so many great programs that are so close by (UCLA, USC, Cedars, Olive View, etc) and as interns we have so much free elective time (5 weeks as an intern) that it’s not difficult to network and get plugged into other programs as well.
- In terms of teaching, there’s a fairly good amount of teaching. Plenty of teaching during rounds and most attendings are fairly good about it. There are plenty of lectures for interns/residents (2-3x/week), daily morning rounds, morning report, noon conferences, etc. We are a university affiliated program, hence plenty of teaching happens for medical students as well.
- Any changes to the curriculum does come from the administration, however these issues are always addressed and discussed with the housestaff before implementation.

Fellowships:
- As mentioned above, Kaiser is a academic affiliated program, thus of course there will be less research oriented attendings. However from what I have seen, most fellowships at Kaiser tend to reserve 1 spot for in-house residents. The ONLY subspecialty I have seen that has not been consistent with this is GI. However those residents who are interested in GI tend to match elsewhere to other programs.


Learning:
- as in any residency program, the effort and amount of time you put into your own learning experience and education is what you will get out of the experience. True, as in any residency program, the intern tends to have a more “secretarial” job, but that’s not all what the Kaiser intern year is about. There are plenty of learning opportunities for interns/residents as mentioned above (morning rounds, daily morning report, lectures geared towards interns/residents, conferences, etc). Not only are attendings friendly and approachable here at Kaiser, but so are the higher level residents. One of the beauties of this program is that the residency program has great camaraderie and you truly feel like you’re part of the Kaiser team/family.

Electronic System
- Kaiser has one of the best electronic systems in the country, and in my personal experience it’s better than the VA’s cprs electronic system. Orders, notes, discharge summaries, images, ekgs via one electronic system are all accessible and made to make the physician’s life easier. Pre-made templates for notes and personalized order sets are all possible through the electronic system. However of course with any great thing, there are some downfalls with the system. It is true that copying/pasting is a problem with some interns/residents, and this goes for any program with an electronic system, and of course those people are appropriately reprimanded. There are also still a few glitches in the system including occasionally a few orders aren’t being transferred appropriately after admission but these are minor issues, picked up readily by the nursing/housestaff, and easily fixed with no effect on patient care. All in all, the electronic system has tremendously and effortlessly helped most of our intern lives with less time spent on paperwork/busy work and more time spent on patient care.
- Kaiser’s electronic system is one of the things that drew me to Kaiser in the first place. The entire patient’s history, previous studies, medication history, surgical pathologies/procedures, etc are ALL accessible through this system. History taking and admissions have never been easier with all the information in front of you. Research is also made so much easier with easy/time-saving access to data.


Overall, Kaiser was one of the most resident-friendly, nonmalignant programs I had seen on my interview trail and I still believe that this is true to this day. I’m not saying that Kaiser is a perfect program and of course with any internship/residency, there will be some hardships and grievances along with issues that need to be worked out. However, I did feel that most of the concerns/complaints mentioned above needed to be addressed from a different intern’s perspective.

 

[codeb1ue]

Just wanted to bump this thread now that I'm preparing my ROL. Does anyone have any new insights into UCLA-Olive View. The opinions on this thread are a bit older so I was hoping for some more recent insights. I'm confused where to place them compared to other "mid-tier" programs like UC Irvine. Just FYI: I'm def considering fellowship.

 

[DOMb]

are there any DO's at harbor-UCLA?? any DO's interview there? Thanks!

 

[Inquisitive]

are there any DO's at harbor-UCLA?? any DO's interview there? Thanks!

Harbor does not interview DOs or FMGs.

 

[PistolPete]

Ouch. Would have thought that DO's could at least interview there.

 

[myocyte]

Harbor does not interview DOs or FMGs.

Wow, at a community prog? Sounds like typical LA arrogance.

 

[sanktank7]

Two year bump...can anyone update this?

 

[dillonkor]

Bump

 

[lulu09]

I'll update for the California programs I interviewed at - this does not include the big 4 (UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, UCSD) and are mostly mid-lower programs (also notably missing Cedars, UCLA-Harbor) - I'll go from perceived strength down:

UC Davis
This was a very solid program and I really enjoyed the interview day. They rotate through the main UCD hospital, which serves as the de facto county hospital, a very small VA, and a bit of Kaiser. I felt they had solid teaching - the sessions weren't super impressive but the attendings were super collegial with the residents. The PD was very nice, but not amazing. Strong heme-onc program. Good fellowship match in general (lots stay at Davis). Does a lot of work with immigrants (apparently Sacramento gets billed as a super diverse community because it's 25% Asian, 25% white, 25% Black, and 25% Hispanic...more or less). Super affordable housing near the hospital. Halfway between SF and Tahoe.

USC
This program used to have a really bad rep but I think a lot has changed with the new PD that came on 3? years ago. They do a really good job selling the program on interview day. I don't know how much is true but they have a very strong fellowship match, perhaps the strongest I've seen this year in the programs I interviewed at. Main site is LAC-USC, except for a few months over at the private hospital (Keck). One of the great things that the PD implemented was a service dealing solely with patients with social work issues but no active med issues, so you can shuttle your patients there after their medical management is over. Fantastic morning report, although kind of stressful I think for the residents since they do that pass-the-microphone down kind of report. Lots of USC students stay and they take over 1/3 their own students I feel...a lot of residents cite the outpatient experience as the primary weakness but they supposedly are working on it. No VA experience.

UCLA Olive View
In Sylmar which is NW Los Angeles, about a 45 min drive from downtown LA. Heavily Hispanic patient population. Strong emphasis on primary care. Only a few residencies in-house (IM, ED, and maybe something else?) The PD is "famous" for her involvement since she's the president of the local ACP - very big on teaching. She has also been the PD for a long time (10+ years?) Residents do one month at the main UCLA campus 1st and 2nd year. I think they get a lot of apps because of the UCLA name. I honestly wasn't *too* impressed as others on this board but it looks like a solid place to get strong clinical training. Not so much research although residents say you can get hooked up with the main UCLA campus - just requires more dedication.

California Pacific Med Ctr (CPMC)
Smack in downtown SF - serves as the major referral hospital for the Sutter Health system, which encompasses a ton of smaller hospitals in the Bay Area. Honestly, I feel like they could be considered as a mid-tier academic institution especially since they are in a city with only one academic med center. Granted, I do think really complex cases tend to go to UCSF, but they have lots of bread and butter pathology as well as more complex patients in the units. Fantastic teaching on rounds (you will see part of rounds on interview day) - residents seem to learn a lot. One of the best morning reports I've seen on interview season. About 3-5 residents go into fellowship each year. For competitive fellowships residents say you can do research with UCSF or Stanford faculty. Super warm group of APDs. I ultimately ranked this very high, actually higher than several academic programs.

Santa Clara Valley Med Ctr (SCVMC)
This is the other "powerhouse" community program in NorCal. It's pretty much equivalent as CPMC although some people may argue this is more rigorous. I certainly think the workload is more rigorous, but I don't know about the teaching. Some residents said the workload is "quite intense" but you see a very diverse range of pathology given that you are the referral hospital for pretty much San Jose down to Fresno. They are the community affiliate of Stanford, and residents do a month at Stanford each year. Several attendings are joint faculty with Stanford. The electorate of Santa Clara county actually approved 800 million for the county to expand SCVMC, so it should be pretty exciting in the future when the new wing goes up too. Great resources for a county hospital. Leadership is currently in flux right now.

Loma Linda
Before you say this is LA, know that Inland Empire is almost 1.5 hours from downtown LA. Traditional 3 hospital system with Riverside county, VA, and the academic med center. Relationships with Riverside county may change as UC Riverside grows their program. Very young group of attendings and program leadership - the youngest I've ever seen. Lots of attendings are program graduates. I think there is definitely more than enough pathology and patient volume, but location is a bit to be desired (I guess you can't really complain about the rent though). Didn't actually sit in noon conference or morning report during the interview day which seems kind of odd. Otherwise a completely "meh" program - won't be devastated if matched there, but won't be ecstatic if I did.

Kaiser Oakland
Next to the Kaiser research division (actually one of the APDs work there). Fantastic PD (also the author of First Aid for IM Boards incidentally). They are really proud of making it to the Final Four or something like that of med Jeopardy at ACP Nationals, haha. Small hospital, but I feel like they still get a fair share of patients because Highland can't take them all. I would say the best of the Kaiser programs.

Kaiser SF
Small Kaiser program in the middle of SF. Filled with amazing residents going on to UCSF residencies and doing cush prelims. They have an in-house cardio fellowship if you care about that. I think they are much weaker than CPMC, and that quality of training and patient load is questionable. Nice PD (but the Oakland one is better).

Kaiser Santa Clara
They are also associated with Stanford. I felt that they are limited by being between Stanford and SCVMC. The interesting cases go towards Stanford, and the patient volume flows toward SCVMC. Nice enough residents and PD although the residents were telling us they frequently get off work at 4 PM...

Highland
The Oakland public hospital. The new PD is trying to revamp Highland and have it become a powerhouse community program and is instituting changes, which is commendable. Poor infrastructure (hospital looks antique and charting is still paper in the inpatient wards). Highland has one of the strongest EM programs in the west coast, if not in the country, and I feel like EM runs the show at Highland and IM takes a backseat. Lots of FMGs if you care about that kind of thing.

Scripps Mercy
Small community program right next to UCSD Hillcrest. Old hospital. Really strange interview program where they ask you to come prepared with how you took care of one of your patients to discuss...feels like I was presenting a patient on rounds haha. Teaching is meh. Lots of residents are there because...lets face it, it's still San Diego. Left unimpressed but really enjoyed La Jolla/Pacific Beach after the interview 😛

 

[drk310]

I'll update for the California programs I interviewed at - this does not include the big 4 (UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, UCSD) and are mostly mid-lower programs (also notably missing Cedars, UCLA-Harbor) - I'll go from perceived strength down:

UC Davis
This was a very solid program and I really enjoyed the interview day. They rotate through the main UCD hospital, which serves as the de facto county hospital, a very small VA, and a bit of Kaiser. I felt they had solid teaching - the sessions weren't super impressive but the attendings were super collegial with the residents. The PD was very nice, but not amazing. Strong heme-onc program. Good fellowship match in general (lots stay at Davis). Does a lot of work with immigrants (apparently Sacramento gets billed as a super diverse community because it's 25% Asian, 25% white, 25% Black, and 25% Hispanic...more or less). Super affordable housing near the hospital. Halfway between SF and Tahoe.

USC
This program used to have a really bad rep but I think a lot has changed with the new PD that came on 3? years ago. They do a really good job selling the program on interview day. I don't know how much is true but they have a very strong fellowship match, perhaps the strongest I've seen this year in the programs I interviewed at. Main site is LAC-USC, except for a few months over at the private hospital (Keck). One of the great things that the PD implemented was a service dealing solely with patients with social work issues but no active med issues, so you can shuttle your patients there after their medical management is over. Fantastic morning report, although kind of stressful I think for the residents since they do that pass-the-microphone down kind of report. Lots of USC students stay and they take over 1/3 their own students I feel...a lot of residents cite the outpatient experience as the primary weakness but they supposedly are working on it. No VA experience.

UCLA Olive View
In Sylmar which is NW Los Angeles, about a 45 min drive from downtown LA. Heavily Hispanic patient population. Strong emphasis on primary care. Only a few residencies in-house (IM, ED, and maybe something else?) The PD is "famous" for her involvement since she's the president of the local ACP - very big on teaching. She has also been the PD for a long time (10+ years?) Residents do one month at the main UCLA campus 1st and 2nd year. I think they get a lot of apps because of the UCLA name. I honestly wasn't *too* impressed as others on this board but it looks like a solid place to get strong clinical training. Not so much research although residents say you can get hooked up with the main UCLA campus - just requires more dedication.

California Pacific Med Ctr (CPMC)
Smack in downtown SF - serves as the major referral hospital for the Sutter Health system, which encompasses a ton of smaller hospitals in the Bay Area. Honestly, I feel like they could be considered as a mid-tier academic institution especially since they are in a city with only one academic med center. Granted, I do think really complex cases tend to go to UCSF, but they have lots of bread and butter pathology as well as more complex patients in the units. Fantastic teaching on rounds (you will see part of rounds on interview day) - residents seem to learn a lot. One of the best morning reports I've seen on interview season. About 3-5 residents go into fellowship each year. For competitive fellowships residents say you can do research with UCSF or Stanford faculty. Super warm group of APDs. I ultimately ranked this very high, actually higher than several academic programs.

Santa Clara Valley Med Ctr (SCVMC)
This is the other "powerhouse" community program in NorCal. It's pretty much equivalent as CPMC although some people may argue this is more rigorous. I certainly think the workload is more rigorous, but I don't know about the teaching. Some residents said the workload is "quite intense" but you see a very diverse range of pathology given that you are the referral hospital for pretty much San Jose down to Fresno. They are the community affiliate of Stanford, and residents do a month at Stanford each year. Several attendings are joint faculty with Stanford. The electorate of Santa Clara county actually approved 800 million for the county to expand SCVMC, so it should be pretty exciting in the future when the new wing goes up too. Great resources for a county hospital. Leadership is currently in flux right now.

Loma Linda
Before you say this is LA, know that Inland Empire is almost 1.5 hours from downtown LA. Traditional 3 hospital system with Riverside county, VA, and the academic med center. Relationships with Riverside county may change as UC Riverside grows their program. Very young group of attendings and program leadership - the youngest I've ever seen. Lots of attendings are program graduates. I think there is definitely more than enough pathology and patient volume, but location is a bit to be desired (I guess you can't really complain about the rent though). Didn't actually sit in noon conference or morning report during the interview day which seems kind of odd. Otherwise a completely "meh" program - won't be devastated if matched there, but won't be ecstatic if I did.

Kaiser Oakland
Next to the Kaiser research division (actually one of the APDs work there). Fantastic PD (also the author of First Aid for IM Boards incidentally). They are really proud of making it to the Final Four or something like that of med Jeopardy at ACP Nationals, haha. Small hospital, but I feel like they still get a fair share of patients because Highland can't take them all. I would say the best of the Kaiser programs.

Kaiser SF
Small Kaiser program in the middle of SF. Filled with amazing residents going on to UCSF residencies and doing cush prelims. They have an in-house cardio fellowship if you care about that. I think they are much weaker than CPMC, and that quality of training and patient load is questionable. Nice PD (but the Oakland one is better).

Kaiser Santa Clara
They are also associated with Stanford. I felt that they are limited by being between Stanford and SCVMC. The interesting cases go towards Stanford, and the patient volume flows toward SCVMC. Nice enough residents and PD although the residents were telling us they frequently get off work at 4 PM...

Highland
The Oakland public hospital. The new PD is trying to revamp Highland and have it become a powerhouse community program and is instituting changes, which is commendable. Poor infrastructure (hospital looks antique and charting is still paper in the inpatient wards). Highland has one of the strongest EM programs in the west coast, if not in the country, and I feel like EM runs the show at Highland and IM takes a backseat. Lots of FMGs if you care about that kind of thing.

Scripps Mercy
Small community program right next to UCSD Hillcrest. Old hospital. Really strange interview program where they ask you to come prepared with how you took care of one of your patients to discuss...feels like I was presenting a patient on rounds haha. Teaching is meh. Lots of residents are there because...lets face it, it's still San Diego. Left unimpressed but really enjoyed La Jolla/Pacific Beach after the interview 😛

Nice review, but you also missed Scripps Green in La Jolla, which would certainly fall in the mid tier group.

 

[783303]

Hey everyone, I've been fortunate to receive many interview invites (more than I expected) this season. My goal is to return to CA for residency. I currently have 13 CA programs on my list (3 others out of state). Most of these are community-based.
Could someone (current or recent resident) please give me a gist of each program in terms of quality of training, patient population, pros/cons etc. if they have changed since? I think the most important factors for me are 1) location (things to do as I like being active and meeting people), 2) clinical training, and 3) fellowship opportunities (reputation and research). I'm open to primary care but may pursue fellowship as I am more leaning towards outpatient care. I would like to do some teaching as part of my career as well.

1. Harbor-UCLA
2. UCLA-Olive View
3. Scripps Green
4. UCSF-Fresno
5. Kaiser LA
6. Loma Linda
7. Santa Clara Valley
8. Kaiser Oakland
9. Kaiser Santa Clara
10. Santa Barbara Cottage
11. CPMC
12. Alameda Highland
13. St. Mary's SF

 

[skeptical1]

Hey everyone, I've been fortunate to receive many interview invites (more than I expected) this season. My goal is to return to CA for residency. I currently have 13 CA programs on my list (3 others out of state). Most of these are community-based.
Could someone (current or recent resident) please give me a gist of each program in terms of quality of training, patient population, pros/cons etc. if they have changed since? I think the most important factors for me are 1) location (things to do as I like being active and meeting people), 2) clinical training, and 3) fellowship opportunities (reputation and research). I'm open to primary care but may pursue fellowship as I am more leaning towards outpatient care. I would like to do some teaching as part of my career as well.

1. Harbor-UCLA
2. UCLA-Olive View
3. Scripps Green
4. UCSF-Fresno
5. Kaiser LA
6. Loma Linda
7. Santa Clara Valley
8. Kaiser Oakland
9. Kaiser Santa Clara
10. Santa Barbara Cottage
11. CPMC
12. Alameda Highland
13. St. Mary's SF

Can comment on two of the programs:

Harbor-UCLA:
- Awesome location! You're in the South Bay of Los Angeles, with easy access to all of entertainment venues of the city (provided you're ok with being stuck in traffic for an hour to get anywhere!)
- Clinical training is very strong. Indigent patient population, very sick, plenty of zebras too. No in-house cardiology or critical care fellows overnight (available by phone) so residents get comfortable making autonomous decisions very early on in their training.
- A large number of graduating residents end up going into cardiology or pulm/crit. A few into heme/onc and GI. These fellowship matches are often in-house or at neighboring programs instead of at the hallowed halls of East Coast academic medicine. Research opportunities exist and many residents get published. However, high clinical workload may be a limiting factor.

Scripps-Green:
- Equally awesome location! San Diego is a beautiful city with lots of culture and great outdoor opportunities if you're into that sort of thing.
- Patient population is very old and very sick. The main difference compared to Harbor is that many of the patients are already in the system and well-connected to care, so likely fewer first diagnoses. If you're passionate about social justice and care for the indigent, this may not necessarily be your best fit.
- Fellowship match list is solid. Mass Gen for cardiology may be a tough nut to crack, but graduates seem to do well.

Did not interview at any of the other programs so cannot comment. Good luck!

 

[Milotic]

Hey everyone, I've been fortunate to receive many interview invites (more than I expected) this season. My goal is to return to CA for residency. I currently have 13 CA programs on my list (3 others out of state). Most of these are community-based.
Could someone (current or recent resident) please give me a gist of each program in terms of quality of training, patient population, pros/cons etc. if they have changed since? I think the most important factors for me are 1) location (things to do as I like being active and meeting people), 2) clinical training, and 3) fellowship opportunities (reputation and research). I'm open to primary care but may pursue fellowship as I am more leaning towards outpatient care. I would like to do some teaching as part of my career as well.

1. Harbor-UCLA
2. UCLA-Olive View
3. Scripps Green
4. UCSF-Fresno
5. Kaiser LA
6. Loma Linda
7. Santa Clara Valley
8. Kaiser Oakland
9. Kaiser Santa Clara
10. Santa Barbara Cottage
11. CPMC
12. Alameda Highland
13. St. Mary's SF

I'll start by saying this is going to depend on which fellowship you want. GI and Cards are becoming very competitive today especially seeing how some strong candidates from mid-tier University based programs were even struggling this year it may only be harder coming from community programs if you desire these specialties. Reasons: Surgery is becoming less desirable and so people who are looking into a lifestyle specialty with procedures are turning more towards the better-natured Internal medicine and going for GI/Cards. If these specialties are your goal, I highly recommend prioritizing the University-based hospital you have listed here: Loma Linda followed by the University-Affiliated hospitals like Harbor, and Olive view. The rest are considered community hospitals despite what they tell you on interview day about "academic feel" and "we have medical students rotate through here". You will see what I mean when you actually become an intern; the major difference between University-based vs community. I was in a similar situation when deciding to rank University-based programs vs Uni-affiliated and now I am so grateful I made the decision to choose the University-based and I would make the same decision a thousand times over again.

That being said, after the above, I would put Scripps Green as this is one of the more unique community programs (like Cedars-Sinai) that has a big research institute attached to it and would give you more opportunities for research to pad yourself for fellowship. The rest of your list wont really matter and you will just have to base it on how you felt at the place because they will be viewed as the same in the eyes of fellowship PDs: Community program.

If you are completely ruling out fellowship then ignore absolutely everything i just said.

 

[783303]

I'll start by saying this is going to depend on which fellowship you want. GI and Cards are becoming very competitive today especially seeing how some strong candidates from mid-tier University based programs were even struggling this year it may only be harder coming from community programs if you desire these specialties. Reasons: Surgery is becoming less desirable and so people who are looking into a lifestyle specialty with procedures are turning more towards the better-natured Internal medicine and going for GI/Cards. If these specialties are your goal, I highly recommend prioritizing the University-based hospital you have listed here: Loma Linda followed by the University-Affiliated hospitals like Harbor, and Olive view. The rest are considered community hospitals despite what they tell you on interview day about "academic feel" and "we have medical students rotate through here". You will see what I mean when you actually become an intern; the major difference between University-based vs community. I was in a similar situation when deciding to rank University-based programs vs Uni-affiliated and now I am so grateful I made the decision to choose the University-based and I would make the same decision a thousand times over again.

That being said, after the above, I would put Scripps Green as this is one of the more unique community programs (like Cedars-Sinai) that has a big research institute attached to it and would give you more opportunities for research to pad yourself for fellowship. The rest of your list wont really matter and you will just have to base it on how you felt at the place because they will be viewed as the same in the eyes of fellowship PDs: Community program.

If you are completely ruling out fellowship then ignore absolutely everything i just said.

Initially I did think about Cards and GI, but I'm prioritizing lifestyle more and Cards doesn't seem to be that great of a lifestyle, and I'm not so excited about doing colonoscopies or dealing with patient's bowel issues (gross factor for me). Like I said, I am more leaning towards outpatient subspecialties if I were to do fellowship. So that would be Rheumatology for instance, and I do know it's becoming more of a "hot subspecialty".

 

[Belzo]

Updates on Santa Clara Valley Med Center (SCVMC):

-Clinical training:
I didn't really know how to assess this as an applicant, but I think in retrospect what you should look for in any program:

1) Patient Volume 2) Resident/Intern Autonomy 3) patient diversity including socioeconomic, cultural and ethnic, 4) disease spectrum including bread-and-butter to zebras (med educators argue bread-and-butter is more important for trainees) 5) # of cases that are undiagnosed/first time diagnosis.

The beauty of SCVMC is that you will get all of the above, as we are the only county/safety net hospital for Santa Clara County. The hospital provides care to a large underserved and immigrant population. SCVMC is a resident run program, ward attendings act primarily as a consultant while supervising teams. We also get tertiary experience at Stanford on their gen med wards, 1month/per year (which is mostly cancer and complications of therapy). Categoricals don't rotate at the VA anymore since it's not a great learning experience per feedback from previous intern/residents. There are no primary specialty services, so every patient is admitted to the gen med service (8 teams, 1 resident and two interns). There is no 24hour call on gen med wards, as 2 night interns cross cover the teams (theoretically ~80pts each) at night. We do 2 months of ICU/CCU per year. 4 teams total, 1 resident and 1 intern per team. The residents do 24hr call, responds to codes, activates the cath lab if needed and admits patients. The intern manages the floor, preforms procedures and cross-covers (only during call) the other 3 ICU team's patients. There are no attendings or fellows in the hospital at night, some leave pretty early in the day ~2-3pm. Of note, there is a non-teaching service that takes placement and/or patients with complex SW issues, so teams aren't inundated with these type of cases. In regards to the specialty services, cardiology consults is ran solely by a resident and intern (no fellow). The other sub-specialties (GI, Heme/Onc, Pulm, Renal) have Stanford fellows who triage consults.

-Research/Fellowship:
There is a dedicated research track starting as a R2. We are also affiliated with Stanford, and thus research opportunities are readily available to those interested. Most of us aren't interested in pursuing sub-specialties; however, those interested in fellowship do successfully match. Pulm crit is without a doubt the most popular given our ICU experience.

-Teaching:
A lot of the learning here is via patient care due to the sheer number of volume/cases; however, we do have daily noon conference and AM report (except Friday due to grand rounds). The conferences include basic intern series, EBM conferences and research, etc.

Message me with questions or clarification

 

[Ilovefishing128]

Anyone care to share some thoughts on UC riverside and riverside community I'm programs please?

Thanks!

 

[orangebanana]

Any thoughts on CPMC vs Kaiser SF?

 

[orangebanana]

Anyone care to share some thoughts on UC riverside and riverside community I'm programs please?

Thanks!

UCR is more established.

UCR: academic half day, half clinic each week, drip system/same daily, 3 hospitals!-St. bernadine, river health systems, and kaiser riverside or moreno valley, emphasis on resident wellness, very accommodating of resident feedback
Riverside community: 1st grad class this year, new but caring leadership, close relationships, little research, possibly starting cardiology fellowship soon, lots of IMGs