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This what a CRNA's nightmare looks like in when it comes to AAs replacing them.
http://www.metrohealth.org/body.cfm?id=166&oTopID=166
http://www.metrohealth.org/body.cfm?id=166&oTopID=166
This what a CRNA's nightmare looks like in when it comes to AAs replacing them.
http://www.metrohealth.org/body.cfm?id=166&oTopID=166
Can AAs practice solo?
Also, I was looking for a list of the 20+ states where CRNAs are allowed to practice solo and couldn't find it. What states allow CRNAs solo practice?
no. they are currently directly supervised. and, the anesthesiologist must be present during all critical portions of the case.
crna's can bill independently in 14 states. they cannot practice independently anywhere (i.e., they must be supervised by a physician, dentist, or podiatrist who have specific anesthesia training).
before anyone says, "here we go again", do a search. this has been beaten to death. the facts are the facts, and they are correct as i've stated them.
careful... this is a double-edged sword... what's going to happen in 20-30 yrs if there becomes an equal number of aa's and crna's? you guessed it. aa's looking for independent practice rights. you're only kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
This what a CRNA's nightmare looks like in when it comes to AAs replacing them.
http://www.metrohealth.org/body.cfm?id=166&oTopID=166
MetroHealth is a CWRU-affiliated hospital, but I don't think they're the only one in their system. Case has both an AA program and a CRNA program. I know several of the names on that list - not all of them are Case grads however. One of the AA's listed is also the director of the Case AA program.Just FYI, that link takes you to Case Western University. JWK please correct any inaccuracies, but for decades the country's two AA schools were CW and Emory in Atlanta. So it would make perfect sense to have a large number of AAs on CW's anesthesia department roster.
Please don't assume that AA's are med-school rejects. That's insulting to all of us.They have an AA school and a CRNA school. It is no surprise that they prefer AA's. Being that AA's were pre med students who couldn't get into med school, due to high competition, as opposed to nursing school, where there in no competition at all.
I love how toughlife seems to be able to find even the most obscure attack on CRNAs.
Please don't assume that AA's are med-school rejects. That's insulting to all of us.
I am always ready for the guerrilla-style ambush
Trust me - I've memorized that paper. It's from Gravenstein, Steinhaus, and Volpitto in 1970. Back then the overall medical school acceptance rate was about 1:10. That was then - this is now. Many of today's applicants are not those that are trying for med school. Some come straight out of college, but many have been in other careers such as respiratory therapy, nursing, or biomedical engineering. Most of today's students have chosen this career instead of med school, not because they didn't get in.I'm not the one who came up with that to begin with. Read the 30 something year old papper by Gravenstein where he says something like "we have all this kids who cannot get into medschool....which can be trained into an anesthesia physiologist (assistant)"
www.anesthetis.org under Media Resource Room "Analysis of manpower in anesthesiology"
MetroHealth is a CWRU-affiliated hospital, but I don't think they're the only one in their system. Case has both an AA program and a CRNA program. I know several of the names on that list - not all of them are Case grads however. One of the AA's listed is also the director of the Case AA program.
Case and Emory were the only AA schools for about 30 years. South graduated their first class last year, Nova's first class is going strong, and UMKC is working hard to ramp up their program. Several others are in the planning stages but have not announced publicly.
There are a handful of groups that are MD / AA only. Most groups that have AA's have CRNA's as well - the dominant type of provider fluctuates year to year. My large group of about 70 anesthetists is usually a pretty even split.
Now why would this pose a nightmare to us? They aren't running us out of the business. There are just so many jobs available and not enough CRNA's that the AA's have found a niche. I think it's great for them. It's no different than PA's and NP's. We all have our place. By the way, try looking at www.gaswork.com sometime. Choose CRNA jobs. After you choose a state scroll through and select a few to view. There will be a list of # docs, # CRNA's, and # AA's employed at the facility. 9 out 10 times there will be a "0" next to AA's. There just aren't many of them yet. There is a desperate need for them though. I find it humerous that you think AA's will work in your favor to destroy all CRNA's. They aren't doing anything other than helping to reaffirm that anesthesia is not a "nursing" role so that insurance companies won't be able to change the reimbursement to such. Good for the AA's!This what a CRNA's nightmare looks like in when it comes to AAs replacing them.
http://www.metrohealth.org/body.cfm?id=166&oTopID=166
Oh ye of little knowledge......Nursing schools are extremely competitive to enter. There are many people who just give up after being turned down over and over. When I went to nursing school back in the 80's the lowest GPA in my accepting class was 3.72. I should know because it was mine! There were 223 applicants to my program and 22 of us were admitted. No competition? Try again! The average GPA today is still around 3.7 or higher. As for CRNA programs, it is HIGHLY competitive to enter. My CRNA program interviewed 300 people and accepted 90 the year I was accepted. So, please, have respect for other professions. Most CRNA's will tell you up front that we know we don't have & will never have the education you do. But please don't belittle us.They have an AA school and a CRNA school. It is no surprise that they prefer AA's. Being that AA's were pre med students who couldn't get into med school, due to high competition, as opposed to nursing school, where there in no competition at all.
I don't know about other states but we can practice "solo" in Texas. However, a CRNA is never really practicing solo because a physician ALWAYS is available to make final medical decisions (even if it's the surgeon; and yes, they are physicians!).Can AAs practice solo? Also, I was looking for a list of the 20+ states where CRNAs are allowed to practice solo and couldn't find it. What states allow CRNAs solo practice?
Oh ye of little knowledge......Nursing schools are extremely competitive to enter. There are many people who just give up after being turned down over and over. When I went to nursing school back in the 80's the lowest GPA in my accepting class was 3.72. I should know because it was mine! There were 223 applicants to my program and 22 of us were admitted. No competition? Try again! The average GPA today is still around 3.7 or higher. As for CRNA programs, it is HIGHLY competitive to enter. My CRNA program interviewed 300 people and accepted 90 the year I was accepted. So, please, have respect for other professions. Most CRNA's will tell you up front that we know we don't have & will never have the education you do. But please don't belittle us.
My young grasshopper: 3.75, 3.9, or even 4.0 in nursing school is not a great deed. I'm pretty sure the dumbest med student in america will ace nursing school without even opening a book.
That's what I mean by competition.
Oh ye of little knowledge......Nursing schools are extremely competitive to enter. There are many people who just give up after being turned down over and over. When I went to nursing school back in the 80's the lowest GPA in my accepting class was 3.72. I should know because it was mine! There were 223 applicants to my program and 22 of us were admitted. No competition? Try again! The average GPA today is still around 3.7 or higher. As for CRNA programs, it is HIGHLY competitive to enter. My CRNA program interviewed 300 people and accepted 90 the year I was accepted. So, please, have respect for other professions. Most CRNA's will tell you up front that we know we don't have & will never have the education you do. But please don't belittle us.
Oh, I didn't realize you were mentally challenged. Let me start again....just try to read slower ok? You see, my dear delayed one, unless you have walked in the shoes you should not judge. You are very offensive. You belittle nursing and the knowledge we have, and for what? Does it give you an overly inflated sense of self worth? I hope so, because my dear one, you are not getting the message. It is all relative. I doubt seriously that the dumbest med student in America could ace nursing school. That is just a cruel, highly insulting remark. It is not pre-school work, and is very challenging. I know that many of your peers out there understand that nursing school is challenging. We are not ******ed, we are not stupid, as you imply. Many of us can actually count to 20 without taking our shoes off. All I can hope is that you will someday mature and realize that your words are extremely tacky and not called for. Oh, and I might add, my FIRST BS was in biology. I did my RN post-BS. My GPA post biology BS was a 3.6. How ever did I do that?????? Why didn't I go to med school? My live-in boyfriend was an anesthesia resident & talked me out of it. Told me it would be the worst mistake I ever made. He's still practicing, and is one of the docs at the hospital I work at. He's always telling me how smart I was to go RN to CRNA. Hmmmmm........Gee, and I remember staying out almost every night partying during the years I did my BS in Biology (reminder, GPA 3.6). I must be a freakin' genius or something to have scored so high in such a difficult curriculum!
My CRNA program interviewed 300 people and accepted 90 the year I was accepted.
Now why would this pose a nightmare to us? They aren't running us out of the business. There are just so many jobs available and not enough CRNA's that the AA's have found a niche. I think it's great for them. It's no different than PA's and NP's. We all have our place. By the way, try looking at www.gaswork.com sometime. Choose CRNA jobs. After you choose a state scroll through and select a few to view. There will be a list of # docs, # CRNA's, and # AA's employed at the facility. 9 out 10 times there will be a "0" next to AA's. There just aren't many of them yet. There is a desperate need for them though. I find it humerous that you think AA's will work in your favor to destroy all CRNA's. They aren't doing anything other than helping to reaffirm that anesthesia is not a "nursing" role so that insurance companies won't be able to change the reimbursement to such. Good for the AA's!
Oh ye of little knowledge......Nursing schools are extremely competitive to enter. There are many people who just give up after being turned down over and over. When I went to nursing school back in the 80's the lowest GPA in my accepting class was 3.72. I should know because it was mine! There were 223 applicants to my program and 22 of us were admitted. No competition? Try again! The average GPA today is still around 3.7 or higher. As for CRNA programs, it is HIGHLY competitive to enter. My CRNA program interviewed 300 people and accepted 90 the year I was accepted. So, please, have respect for other professions. Most CRNA's will tell you up front that we know we don't have & will never have the education you do. But please don't belittle us.
It is silly to drawn a comparison between pre-med and nursing.
Secondly, its a universal truth that "if you dont use it,you lose it". So how helpful is med school training 5 years out of residency when your only doing simple "B&B for Bills" cases? Well, I guess you might ask the surgeon the otherday who asked me "It's the ventricular rhythms that are the bad ones, right?" and no, he wasn't joking.
In fact, if you look at the anesthesia claims the #1 reason is lack of ventilation, no excuse for that and anyone can be taught to recognize and do it. Also, while CRNAs are 50% of the USA's anesthesia workforce, they have a disproportionately lower rate of suits than MDAs. Why would that be?
See, there is much more to the whole thing than "b/c im a doctor im safer". Its just not true and has no quantitative or qualitative power behind the statement. Thats clearly evidenced by the fact that the #1 cause of lawsuit vs anesthesiologist is for hypoxia due to no ventilation which is often directly related to not recognizing that a pt isnt being ventilated. How could this happen is MDAs were so much safer? Really, thats as basic as it gets.
This statement only reinforces my point that supervision of CRNAs by a non-anesthesiologist (surgeon/podiatrist/dentist) is only a window-dressing to distract the general public, and exists simply to provide a route for the patient to sue a physician instead of the CRNA.
Also, you state that CRNAs get sued with less frequency yet fail to recognize that in many cases of alleged medical malpractice the CRNA/resident never actually gets named in the lawsuit. Often only the supervising physician or institution itself are named. So data regarding CRNA claims only reflects the cases where the plaintiff attorneys actually name the CRNA personally in the lawsuit. Typically this would only occur if there was a lack of sufficient coverage available on the physician/institution's med mal policy. This represents a HUGE flaw in the statistics you are citing.
Conflicted, what are your thoughts regarding CRNA's stand that AA's are not safe?
This statement right here shows your lack of understanding of the medical legal world and/or lack of knowledge of statistics. I suggest you do some more research into WHY cases are brought against attendings rather than residents or CRNAs.
Hi Me
Well id suggest this is an opinion without evidence. Dont challenge me about how wrong i am when you bring no proof suggesting it. Could you please post the case law which shows CRNAs not to be litigated against when there is supervision and the problem was anesthesia? I can find it for residents, but i can assure you, it dosent exist for CRNAs. Maybe you should do your research.
They have an AA school and a CRNA school. It is no surprise that they prefer AA's. Being that AA's were pre med students who couldn't get into med school, due to high competition, as opposed to nursing school, where there in no competition at all.
I'm not the one who came up with that to begin with. Read the 30 something year old papper by Gravenstein where he says something like "we have all this kids who cannot get into medschool....which can be trained into an anesthesia physiologist (assistant)"
www.anesthetis.org under Media Resource Room "Analysis of manpower in anesthesiology"
Hi Me
Well id suggest this is an opinion without evidence. Dont challenge me about how wrong i am when you bring no proof suggesting it. Could you please post the case law which shows CRNAs not to be litigated against when there is supervision and the problem was anesthesia? I can find it for residents, but i can assure you, it dosent exist for CRNAs. Maybe you should do your research.