A high school student interested in optometry - GASP!

[karolina]

I am a highschool student. An incoming junior (September), to be exact. I suppose I might be jumping the fence by posting here, probably many, but I'm extremely passionate about getting myself organized early...very early. I guarantee that this post is going to be long because I've got a lot of questions to ask. I appreciate the help of anyone at all. Thanks so much!

I am very interested in the field of optometry. From a young age, the only thing I've actually been passionate about is acting and medicine. Freshman year of high school (gr. 9) I had taken biology, and I enjoyed it a lot. I just finished Chemistry this year, and hadn't liked the class at all, but I feel very comfortable in putting the blame on my very unprofessional and just plain AWFUL teacher. =P I'm definately not persuing acting, so I had decided that I wanted to be 'some sort' of doctor at age 13 or so. I was an ambitious kid! I'm 16 now, and recently my friends were just chatting about what we wanted to do and I had realized that of all medical professions, this field interests me most. I had considered looking into opthalmology as well, but truthfully I know that I want to go into optometry. I just see myself in an office, helping young and old with eye care, rather than doing surgeries. I can see myself as a business woman on the side, and I figure that after a few years and some money (with help from the parental unit ), I can truly open my own glasses store, with an office attached. Selling couture/high-end lenses brings in a lot of money, if the medical end of the job were ever to be going down, and vice verca. I think it's a field I truly see myself in. Something that could work for me.

For my junior year curriculum I'm going to be taking regular phsyics, AP Environmental Science, AP English Language, AP American, and all the other random classes (pre-cal, gym, etc.) For senior year, I plan to take AP Biology, AP English Literature, AP American (continuation, with economics and other classes in it as well...I'm not sure exactly how this works but that's how my school does it,) and possibly AP Psychology. I'm contemplating taking Calculus senior year, but I'm edging towards no!

The reasons I am explaining this is because I really need severe help in deciding where to go for undergrad. I know that most of you are grad school applicants, students, or graduates and are probably highly uninterested in this. If this is the case, I urge you to exit out, BUT I believe I can recieve better advice from those who went through the process, rather than high school students who themselves are choosing which college to go to.

I live in Brooklyn, New York and I go to a very good public school. It's a specialized high school and probably the best in Brooklyn. I'm looking to go to college not to far away, at most 250 miles. I'd hope even much less, but at max a 4 or 5 hour drive.

I really need help deciding which undergraduate university to go to, in hopes of getting into one of the 16 US optometry schools. I basically need help in knowing which undergraduate schools have the greatest feeder rates into optometry schools. I know that these schools are insanely competitive, and I'd truly want the best option possible.

Now, I'm basically looking for a school that would (1) be able to prepare me for the OAT (2) make me look better as an applicant, perhaps by the school name alone, and finally (3) allow opportunities for internships and volunteering. I believe that the third is the most important. I truly need a school that will let me have an opportunity to stand out - what better way than through a school that has great ties with professionals looking for interns and volunteers.

I have no idea where to even look into! I would hope that by junior year I can finish off with an average of 93/94. My APs will be weighted, which is great. I'm afraid that my overall GPA won't be as high though, due to a sucky freshman year. It would probably be at 89/90 but I hope that colleges look at junior year prior to overall, and consider yearly improvements.

I am possibly considering Cornell, but I won't even try to get my hopes up. Perhaps I'm lightening up to the idea because one of my friends who's graduating just got in with a 95.6% junior year. I won't get my hopes up at all though, and I am mostly looking into a SUNY. if I were to go to a SUNY, it would either be Stonybrook or Binghamton. I know that Stonybrook is one of the top state schools in sending students off to Med School, which is great. Binghamton on the other hand has a really unique program I had read about, just while googling around.

according to: http://www.binghamton.edu/home/academic/prehealth.html

"Optometry

Binghamton offers an integrated double-degree program in liberal arts and optometry. The seven-year program offers qualified students the opportunity to earn a bachelor’s degree and an OD from the SUNY College of Optometry. A pre-optometry club is available for students interested in pursuing a career in optometry."

I only stumbled upon it and I feel as if, say Binghamton randomly has such an incredible program with such an opportunity, surely other schools that I've never even heard of do as well.

I'm sure you guys have a broad knowledge of schools in and around New York, besides SUNY's. I know little to nothing about other schools such as Syracuse and Rochester. If anyone at all could provide insight, or direct me towards websites that could help me, or forums where I can repost this, I would greatly appreciate it.

Now, again I understand that I am young, and I'm prone to changing my mind a bunch of times. I don't doubt the possibility of myself doing something in an entirely different direction, but how I see it now- this is the way it's going. I'd really appreciate the help of anyone and everyone. Thank's for reading this lengthly post! If anyone has questions to ask me I'll be here to reply.

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[still_confused]

hehe its great to see that you are looking ahead. dont forget your feelings now,but college is a great time to explore other things. dont hold yourself to only becoming an optometrist or a doctor or another profession. explore! college is as much about discovering yourself as it is about learning and preparing for a profession.

many people change paths once they get to college. a philosophy class might spark your interest or a chemistry lab might uncover your passion for research, the sky is the limit! too many people go to college with thier mind set on one path and one goal(nothing is wrong with that!) but for me, college was about finding what i wanted and not what i thought i wanted. if you want to do optometry, thats great! but keep your options open! for these reasons, i dont believe that you should join a "joint degree" as you are limiting yourself from the very beginning. what you are now is going to be different from what you will be in 4 years (i know i am!) so live and explore and should your path still lead you to optometry then great! if it doesn't thats also good, it prevented you from making a mistake. you seem really studious so you will have no problem making the necessary marks to make optometry school even if you do not do the joint program

as far as classes, i would definetely recommend calculus as it will make your college math alot easier. AP chemistry and AP physics will also make your transition from hs to college easier.

in terms of selecting a school, the practical side in me wants to say go to the school that will give you the least debt as you dont want alot of loans following you around and if you work hard, your work will speak for yourself. the vain side in me wants to say go for prestige and the brag factor! who doesnt want to say they went to harvard! for you, i will say find which side you lean towards more and find a good compromise. any school will provide you with the necessary knowledge for the OAT if you work hard. for volunteer oppurtunities, maybe look for a school with a hospital so you can volunteer there without having to travel a long distance. for me i selected the lower debt option with less prestige (ucla) and while i wished i wented to an ivy (columbia) , ill make the same decision again because that is who i am. you will need to be honest with yourself about what you want from your college and pick accordingly

good luck in your schoolwork and your future, remember always keep your options open but your eye on the prize!

 

[qwopty99]

being frank, optometry is not that hard to get into, if all you want to do is "get into" optometry (somewhere). the private schools aren't competitive "at all" (for someone who, let's say, is competitive for medical school).

just casually glancing over your post, i see some words that stick out, such as APs, 90+ marks, and Cornell. if you're a HS junior, and you're this well "prepared" for what u want to do, then getting an optometry acceptance somewhere will be one of the easiest milestones ur going to encounter in your educational life.

 

[ncii]

Go to the school you like the most (and the school which will incur little debt). Like the others said, as long as you do well in your pre-opt courses, getting into optometry school will not be that difficult.
Binghamton and Stonybrook are both very good schools. If you are sure about optometry, the three year undergrad program is a good idea (i think ithaca college has a program similar to that as well). Cornell has a reduced tuition rate for NY residents, so this might be an option. But Cornell and Binghamton are very cold places to live and if you're from Brooklyn, both schools are kind of out in the middle of nowhere compared to living in the city...
You're probably elgible for some scholarships so think about applying to some private schools too (fordham, manhattan college, just to name a couple). Or maybe think about schools close to philly or boston which are both within 4 hours of nyc.
Good luck

 

[KHE]

I would suggest that at this stage in your career that you not think too much about optometry or optometry school. You can lose the forest for the trees. Take it one step at a time. If you are just starting your junior year, I would focus on doing as well as you can in high school so that you may be admitted to the undergraduate college of your choice.

Its nice that you are thinking long term but you might be thinking a little bit too long term right now. You seem to know that yourself. I recall reading an article recently that claimed that more than 1/2 of the people who enter college switch their majors at least once. Try not to get too focused on optometry as you might miss other things that pique your interest. When you are planning out your life, its always a good idea to do it in pencil.

I am a highschool student. An incoming junior (September), to be exact. I suppose I might be jumping the fence by posting here, probably many, but I'm extremely passionate about getting myself organized early...very early. I guarantee that this post is going to be long because I've got a lot of questions to ask. I appreciate the help of anyone at all. Thanks so much!

.

 

[karolina]

I thank you guys greatly for all of the replies! I really appreciate it.

KHE - I totally understand what you're saying, and I suppose I am getting ahead of myself. I just wanted some replies as to which undergrads would probably be best, but I understand exactly what you're talking about. I might change my mind about optometry all together, but maybe I won't. =P who knows?

NCI - thank you a lot for your adivce, especially about Ithica. Didn't know that at all, I've never heard of that school but I'll look into it. Thanks a lot for recommending schools, I'm so out of the loop about this stuff.

14_of_spades - your words are really encouraging! seriously, haha. I really appreciate that, and I hope you're right.

still_confused - thanks a lot. I think I might take calculus but I really don't know. It's between that or AP Psychology - otherwise my day goes extreeemely long. but yeah, I might take it, not sure yet. I'm definatly going to keep my options open! I just think that this is where I'm leaning towards.

Thanks again guys.

 

[KHE]

There really is no undergrad that would be better than any others per se. Obviously, on any graduate application, a degree from Harvard will look more impressive than a degree from Southern Mississippi State. However, I would not suggest picking an undergraduate college based on whether you think it would be "better" for optometry. Pick one that you will be comfortable at and will be "better" for YOU. Some of the SUNY schools have a 3/4 program where you may be able to be admitted to SUNY after 3 years. At least they did...I don't know if they still do or not. Good luck with your pursuits.

I thank you guys greatly for all of the replies! I really appreciate it.

KHE - I totally understand what you're saying, and I suppose I am getting ahead of myself. I just wanted some replies as to which undergrads would probably be best, but I understand exactly what you're talking about. I might change my mind about optometry all together, but maybe I won't. =P who knows?

NCI - thank you a lot for your adivce, especially about Ithica. Didn't know that at all, I've never heard of that school but I'll look into it. Thanks a lot for recommending schools, I'm so out of the loop about this stuff.

14_of_spades - your words are really encouraging! seriously, haha. I really appreciate that, and I hope you're right.

still_confused - thanks a lot. I think I might take calculus but I really don't know. It's between that or AP Psychology - otherwise my day goes extreeemely long. but yeah, I might take it, not sure yet. I'm definatly going to keep my options open! I just think that this is where I'm leaning towards.

Thanks again guys.

 

[drgregory]

im going to put some gloom in your day. make sure you know what optometry entails. if you have dreams of hoards of patients with eye injuries and red eyes coming into your office, i might look towards becoming an ophthalmologist. if you become an optometrist, you will certainly have the training to handle the above scenarios, but you will not always be in the right place to receive them. how many red eyes seek care at wally world? chances are, by the time you graduate most of your opportunity will be in either a mall or a department store. commercial optometry is an internal infection that is killing its eye care host, quickly. i love being an optometrist, up to the point where i see what it is becoming. an positive outlook would be assuming that things were going to change - but last i checked, wally world and its counterparts were growing.
just my opinion, i saw an opening to bash corporate optometry so i jumped on it.

 

[xmattODx]

im going to put some gloom in your day. make sure you know what optometry entails. if you have dreams of hoards of patients with eye injuries and red eyes coming into your office,

Did you think that this is what optometry was? No wonder you're so angry all the time.

 

[drgregory]

Did you think that this is what optometry was? No wonder you're so angry all the time.

angry like a child that had their toy taken away from them. it is becoming very difficult for an optometrist seeking what i consider an "ideal" practice situation to find opportunity. what makes it worse is the current optometric training far exceeds optometric demand. in a nutshell, our training far exceeds "glasses and contacts", but in reality that is why most of our patients come to see us. for those who need primary medical eye care, most actually go to urgent care/minute clinics/ER. some straggle into optometrists offices, some straggle into ophthalmologists offices, but in my opinion, not the majority. so im not sure if i would be content being an ophthalmologist either - surgery after surgery doent intrigue me. i could probably find a way to complain if i had Bill Gate's job and financial security. maybe its just me?

 

[still_confused]

and here comes mr sunshine to brighten up everyone's day!

 

[prettygreeneyes]

and here comes mr sunshine to brighten up everyone's day!

I was sooo going to post that... but you beat me to it!!! He even beat KHE to the punch... (In all seriousness, I have a lot of respect for both Dr. Gregory and KHE... despite the fact they are buzzkillers!)

 

[iiiimonica]

good for you for being so focused at such an early age! just like other posters have said keep an open mind because you never know where life takes you.

as far as schools go, my hubby went to Stonybrook and he really really liked it, good classes, nice faculty and New York, a town so nice they named it thrice.


don't let the bk doctors get you down, just be aware of what optometry really is before you commit to 4 years. and remember - there's always room at the top

 

[rpie]

angry like a child that had their toy taken away from them. it is becoming very difficult for an optometrist seeking what i consider an "ideal" practice situation to find opportunity. what makes it worse is the current optometric training far exceeds optometric demand. in a nutshell, our training far exceeds "glasses and contacts", but in reality that is why most of our patients come to see us. for those who need primary medical eye care, most actually go to urgent care/minute clinics/ER. some straggle into optometrists offices, some straggle into ophthalmologists offices, but in my opinion, not the majority. so im not sure if i would be content being an ophthalmologist either - surgery after surgery doent intrigue me. i could probably find a way to complain if i had Bill Gate's job and financial security. maybe its just me?

Just a couple of articles that written by Dr. Arthur Epstein, which I found, thought provoking. Greg, I agree that most people will initially see an OD for glasses and contacts. However, as they find out what services you also provide, will look to you to treat their medical eye problems as long as they are happy with your services. Majority of our emergency, red eyes, glaucoma patients etc., are returning patients that initially came in for glasses or contacts. One thing I would like to point out to the students is that those patients that have us treat their emergencies, tend to refer their relatives and co-workers. What’s interesting is that many times patients will come directly to us for their ocular emergency because they find out that their ER co-pay is $75-200 bucks. A specialist office visit is about $30-40 bucks …..depending on their insurance. (OD’s are considered specialists by many insurances)

Cheers!




We usually don’t have room for reader letters, but I thought this one was worth sharing (note that not a word was changed):
Optometric Physician…what is with this?Do Optometrists go to Medical School? I thought that only "doctors" who attend a medical school, whether allopathic or osteopathic, can be called a "physician." Is this title been done to confuse the public to think that optometrists, O.D.s, have an advanced medical degree? They do NOT! This is such a confusing term that can only serve to conceal that ODs and NOT true physicians.
I am an Ophthalmologist, a true physician. I went to medical school, did internal medicine training and then three years of Ophthalmology training. I am a physician and ODs never will be!The name of this publication is a disgrace and slaps the face of all TRUE physicians who have trained for many years longer than ODs. The term Optometric Physician is used to hide the fact that ODs never attended medical school and to make uneducated patients believe otherwise. This can only lead to patient harm and blindnes.You would do better to not allow such a farce to continue.

I guess every profession has its embarrassments. Blindness indeed....



Arthur B. Epstein, OD, FAAOChief Medical Editor



This from the May 30, 2006 Glaucoma Today, eNews (my comments in red): "In April 2006, the AAO issued a member alert in response to the American Optometric Association's (AOA) stated intention to promote optometry as an eye care and eye health industry leader. The AOA's "Desired State" of practice would include developing a nationwide, uniform, self-regulated licensure with an available residency program in optometric surgery." Hmmm… so what’s wrong with that?

In the article, Dunbar Hoskins, MD, Executive Vice President of the AAO is quoted: "Optometrists can wear a white coat and call themselves doctors, but that does not mean they have the experience to understand all the complexities of surgery and healing. We need to make sure our patients know the difference between ophthalmology and optometry." So let me get this straight Dunbar. Ophthalmologists have an exclusive on learning and even though we ODs have earned a doctoral degree we’re not "real" doctors? I suspect that the majority of patients in the US would disagree--despite that bought and paid for National Consumer League manure the AAO has been spreading.

Sam Masket, MD, President of ASCRS adds: "It should really come as no surprise that the AOA is seeking broader privileges for their members. Like other trade, labor, and union organizations, the AOA is working in the interest of its members. What is surprising, however, is that the state legislatures have granted optometrists the privilege of determining their own scope of practice when it reaches into the surgical arena. My sense is that the state boards of medicine and surgery should exercise authority over any surgical privileges, not optometrists themselves." Sam. Sam, Sam. First you imply that we are a trade then you forget the definition of independent. Optometry is an independent profession, no more a trade than ophthalmology is. Optometry has the same right to self determination (training based and legislated) as your profession does.

Finally from Dr. Hoskins: "The Surgical Scope Fund is our biggest weapon in this ongoing battle with optometry, I urge all my colleagues to contribute."

Finally from me: Our national and state PACs are our biggest weapon against another profession who would seek to control our fate. The AAO’s Surgical Scope Fund is a reaction to our success in expansion through education and legislation. The days of accepting the status quo are gone. The phone number to make contributions to the AOA-PAC is 703-739-9200. Tell ‘em Art Epstein sent ya.

Arthur B. Epstein, OD, FAAO

 

[still_confused]

if you guys want to bring out the optvsopth debate,opt students are med school rejects, or why optometry sucks big time or even why walmart is extremely evil, i think it would be wise to start a new thread or contribute on an existing thread pertaining to the matter.

this thread is being hijacked, the original poster is seeking advice on what to take in high school and how he/she can pick the right college as well as a proper pre opt route.

maybe there should be a sticky depicting the impending doom of optometry. that way people have a place to vent all thier frustrations rather then hijack threads and impede discussion on the original subject matter

the thread should be named as follows:

"DOOMSDAY : OPTOMETRY : are you prepared? why working at walmart and not going to medical school will ruin your life"

 

[xmattODx]

this thread is being hijacked, the original poster is seeking advice on what to take in high school and how he/she can pick the right college as well as a proper pre opt route.

I think the advice has been very good thus far. From my reading of the thread the advice offered has been:
1) It doesn't matter what undergrad institution you go to. Go to one where you will be the happiest and that will leave the most doors open (and where you will leave with the least debt)
2) Don't settle on a profession in high school. Keep doors open in case your life experience causes you to change your mind
3) Ensure you understand the profession of optometry (or any profession for that matter) before you settle on that profession for your career.
4) Realize that optometry is primarily a refractive profession and not a profession of red-eyes/disease treatment.
5) Realize that as a refractive profession there are outside interests involved in optometry that you need to be aware of (commercial optometry).

All good advice and not the high-jacking of a thread. Good luck to the OP and ensure that you take the time to enjoy undergrad - and high school for that matter!

 

[leelee]

4) Realize that optometry is primarily a refractive profession and not a profession of red-eyes/disease treatment.

???!!!

I disagree.



To karolina: Follow your dreams. You would make an excellent optometrist one day.

 

[xmattODx]

I disagree.

I'm glad you disagree. For how long and where have you been practicing? In the four years since I graduated with my OD I've only worked in large metro areas. Perhaps if I spent some time in more rural areas I would be proven wrong. In my limited experience I've noticed that most of the ODs I've worked with/for perform refraction after refraction and very little disease treatment. I welcome a description of your experience.

Edit to add: I'm not trying to be sarcastic.

 

[Ben Chudner]

I'm glad you disagree. For how long and where have you been practicing? In the four years since I graduated with my OD I've only worked in large metro areas. Perhaps if I spent some time in more rural areas I would be proven wrong. In my limited experience I've noticed that most of the ODs I've worked with/for perform refraction after refraction and very little disease treatment. I welcome a description of your experience.

Edit to add: I'm not trying to be sarcastic.

It all depends on where you practice, but I agree with xmattODx. The majority of time spent in an OD practice will be spent doing routine exams and CL fiting and follow-up. In fact, there are published statistics on it. According to the AOA, 60% of all patients encounters are routine eye exams. Another 22% are CL fitting and follow-up. Only 10% are treatment/management of disease. The rest was split between VT, emergency visits, and other (I assume this to be admin time). This is not true for all practices. As with all stats like this, there are those practices that do much more disease (mine is one of them) but the take home point is that the majority of the patients that come to see an OD simply want glasses or contacts. Is this a bad thing? That's for each of you to decide.

 

[mmredhead]

I'm also a high school student entering my junior year interested in entering optometry. I'm trying to decide on which classes to take at my high school, so if I do decide to enter this field I will have a good chance of entering the right schools. I'm in the top 1% of my class, but I have a dread of AP Chemistry. It is supposed to be the most difficult class in our school, largely because of the way the teacher works. I really want to avoid this class, so I wanted to know how necessary it is. Also I want to know if I should try to squeeze in an anatomy course. Because of the way class rank is figured in my school, and with the competition I have, taking anatomy could very possibly lower my rank, even if I get an A. As for my other classes, I will have taken four years of sciences by the end of high school, including biology 215, AP Biology, the first level of chemistry, and AP physics. I will take four years of math, including geometry, algebra II, analysis, and AP calculus. In other subjects, I am also taking challenging college preparatory classes. I would appreciate input on any of these ideas!

 

[still_confused]

\taking AP chem will increase your chance of an A in college chem. that is the A opt schools will look at and should be the one you strive for. a B in chem your senior year wont affect you that much especially if you are already accepted by the time the school sees your final grades.

 

[karolina]

haha, you guys are awesome. I mean I certainly didn't know some of the things you guys brought up. And I do lean towards opt rather than opth, for sure.

and, mmredhead - it's good to know I'm not alone!

also, to leelee - you're awfully sweet, and that made me smile!


thanks guys, thanks a lot. your words did help and it's all being taken into consideration. I'm totally going to keep my options open, but I'm more into opt now than ever.

 

[iiiimonica]

dear karolina,

i wish you all the best

you might want to think about getting a job as an optician in an od office or even in a chain store. being an optician can expose you to optometry in a very meaningful way (you really get to see the good the bad and the ugly- those newly popular HUGE frames) and after a few years you can make really good money (well okay money, but great experience).

my reccommendation would be to try to work in your own od's office and absorb like a spounge everything around you. learn how to fit glasses down to why you take the measurments you take. it was a wonderul experience for me and i was able to work through undergrad and i hope to keep working.

again good luck

 

[ttran01]

thats good that you're taking all these ap classes in high school, im thinking about going into optometry or pharmacy, but so confused on which path i should take. im a sophomore in college and let me tell you, these chemistry and biology classes are tough. maybe because of my professors but taking ap chem, bio etc in high school will probably help you grades in college because you go over the same stuff you did in you your ap classes.