A lifestyle field?

[cozmopak]

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I'm intrigued by anesthesia. I like it. But what is up with the average 60 hour work weeks? Will the practice of anesthesiology allow you time to have a family? I've heard nightmarish stories of anesthesiologists becoming drug addicts as a result of stress. Can this still be considered a lifestyle field?

 

[bne_12mne]

Cosmopak,

I will try to help you.

Anesthesiology is not necessarily a lifestyle field. I don't know where you get the 60 hours per week data, but let's just say that the jobs out there have highly variable work requirements.

As for drug addiction, the rates are higher in anesthesiology among physicians, but it is largely an issue of access to the drugs that account for the difference. But as you know, drug addiction is bad and should not be taken lightly.

In the end, if you are interested in the field, I suggest doing some rotations or an observership with attending anesthesiologists.

BNE

 

[Planktonmd]

If you want to become an anesthesiologist for the "lifestyle" why don't you look into Dermatology?
How about becoming a plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills??
We really don't need any more lifestyle seekers in this field and it is not as appealing as it used to be anyway.

 

[lobelsteve]

P M and R

Plenty of Money and Relaxation.

 

[Noyac]

Yes, you can have a family and practice anesthesia but you will have a hard time if you don't have a strong support system. You most likely won't get out of call and will need help with kids at least once a week.

But as Plank stated, we don't need any more "lifestyle" oriented candidates. Most of us know how to separate work and life. But if you are in my group, work comes first. We play hard but we work hard first. We just had an applicant who only wanted to know about lifestyle and then after the fact asked about the job. This is discouraging.

 

[Bertelman]

I'm intrigued by anesthesia. I like it. But what is up with the average 60 hour work weeks? Will the practice of anesthesiology allow you time to have a family? I've heard nightmarish stories of anesthesiologists becoming drug addicts as a result of stress. Can this still be considered a lifestyle field?

Being a physician won't exactly allow you to have a family.

 

[Calilove]

But, you can control how things go by accepting less dough... then, u can work alot less.

The problem is that alot of newbies wanna go into this field, make 400 K/yr, and work a 40 hr week! Its not happening for you (even if u move to Puget Sound they will work your A SS into the ground for that kinda dough)! You can count on missing your kids ballgames, etc. just as in any other field of medicine. We are doctors, sacrifice comes with this distinction!

If youre looking for a lifestyle field, look elsewhere! Anesthesiology is challenging mentally and physically! Remember, when the surgeon is operating all night, you're right there with him. Any intubations needed, you're the guy/gal! Add on case put in your room in the afternoon, slow surgeon,etc., you're it! There's no tag-in/tag-out as in wrestling...you're it!

 

[maceo]

Will the practice of anesthesiology allow you time to have a family? I've heard nightmarish stories of anesthesiologists becoming drug addicts as a result of stress. Can this still be considered a lifestyle field?

I think only part of the problem is access in drug addiction in anesthesia the other part is just the job.... it can wear you down if you let it. You have to be too many things to too many people and sometimes what you want in anesthesia you never get. So if you are flexible and you dont have preferences about many things youre ok.. but if you are a fairly demanding person and want things done your way, you are constantly going to be depressed and pissed off. bad combo in my opinion..not to mention the production pressure.... enter fentanyl.. IV push

 

[jetproppilot]

I think only part of the problem is access in drug addiction in anesthesia the other part is just the job.... it can wear you down if you let it. You have to be too many things to too many people and sometimes what you want in anesthesia you never get. So if you are flexible and you dont have preferences about many things youre ok.. but if you are a fairly demanding person and want things done your way, you are constantly going to be depressed and pissed off. bad combo in my opinion..not to mention the production pressure.... enter fentanyl.. IV push

Addiction is much more complicated than you describe, Sir.

 

[fakin' the funk]

The problem is that alot of newbies wanna go into this field, make 400 K/yr, and work a 40 hr week! Its not happening for you (even if u move to Puget Sound they will work your A SS into the ground for that kinda dough)! You can count on missing your kids ballgames, etc. just as in any other field of medicine. We are doctors, sacrifice comes with this distinction!

Yea, how would we have possibly gotten this idea?

 

[drccw]

If you gets your jones off with physiology and pharmacology, anesthesia is the right field for you...

if you are slick with your hands and love the feeling of popping a block in in 90 secs, or the totally awesome feeling of a sweet of a loss of resistance, anesthesia is the right field for you.....

if you like showing up at a code, intubating the patient and lining them up and showing the hospital what a true critical are doc is, then anesthesia is the right field for you...

if you like turning a busy OR into an efficient machine, getting the work done so that everyone, yes everyone can get home, then anesthesia is the right field for you

if all you want to do is sit on your butt and make money and do what is necessary and go home, then go elsewhere.. i don't want that kind of person in my practice...

 

[maceo]

Addiction is much more complicated than you describe, Sir.

I know but i was trying to get at that access is not the ONLY reason anesthesiologists are addicted.

 

[AK_MD2BE]

If you gets your jones off with physiology and pharmacology, anesthesia is the right field for you...

if you are slick with your hands and love the feeling of popping a block in in 90 secs, or the totally awesome feeling of a sweet of a loss of resistance, anesthesia is the right field for you.....

if you like showing up at a code, intubating the patient and lining them up and showing the hospital what a true critical are doc is, then anesthesia is the right field for you...

if you like turning a busy OR into an efficient machine, getting the work done so that everyone, yes everyone can get home, then anesthesia is the right field for you

if all you want to do is sit on your butt and make money and do what is necessary and go home, then go elsewhere.. i don't want that kind of person in my practice...

Beautifully stated...you pretty much summed up why I am trying to convince all of the top students at my school to go into Anesthesiology. 😀

 

[cozmopak]

If you gets your jones off with physiology and pharmacology, anesthesia is the right field for you...

if you are slick with your hands and love the feeling of popping a block in in 90 secs, or the totally awesome feeling of a sweet of a loss of resistance, anesthesia is the right field for you.....

if you like showing up at a code, intubating the patient and lining them up and showing the hospital what a true critical are doc is, then anesthesia is the right field for you...

if you like turning a busy OR into an efficient machine, getting the work done so that everyone, yes everyone can get home, then anesthesia is the right field for you

if all you want to do is sit on your butt and make money and do what is necessary and go home, then go elsewhere.. i don't want that kind of person in my practice...

This is precisely what I love about the field. Thanks for the post.

 

[maceo]

This is precisely what I love about the field. Thanks for the post.

I hate that you would go into someting uninformed. If anesthesia to you is what drccw posted, you are going into it for the wrong reasons because that is like .1 percent of what anesthesia is. Iw ould do some more serious research work if i were you. If i remember correctly you were also interested in radiology. What about radiology that you like?

 

[cozmopak]

I hate that you would go into someting uninformed. If anesthesia to you is what drccw posted, you are going into it for the wrong reasons because that is like .1 percent of what anesthesia is. Iw ould do some more serious research work if i were you.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you sound discontent with anesthesia.

 

[aphistis]

I hate that you would go into someting uninformed. If anesthesia to you is what drccw posted, you are going into it for the wrong reasons because that is like .1 percent of what anesthesia is. Iw ould do some more serious research work if i were you. If i remember correctly you were also interested in radiology. What about radiology that you like?

OR + OB + regional + critical care = 0.1% of anesthesiology?

 

[cdql]

what's the big deal about pursuing a field for lifestyle reasons?

 

[badasshairday]

I hate that you would go into someting uninformed. If anesthesia to you is what drccw posted, you are going into it for the wrong reasons because that is like .1 percent of what anesthesia is. Iw ould do some more serious research work if i were you. If i remember correctly you were also interested in radiology. What about radiology that you like?

😕

The reason's drccw gave are some of the reasons why I am interested in anesthesiology. Maybe you mean that he left out some of the cons?

 

[Jeff05]

what's the big deal about pursuing a field for lifestyle reasons?

you have not known misery until you do something you really really don't like for 60 hrs a week (i remember my medicine internship). truth is, they don't pay us enough and the job is not easy enough to go into because of just lifestyle and money. i mean if we worked 35 hours/wk and made a million a year, things may be different.

on the other side, it should be a real consideration, because, if a certain lifestyle and income level is important to you, you should be careful with the currently undercompensated primary care fields.

 

[Lonestar]

Dear cozmopak,

the answer to your question is yes. Enough said.

 

[maceo]

OR + OB + regional + critical care = 0.1% of anesthesiology?

the fast efficient machine part.. there is nothing fast and efficient about medicine or the OR. Its as fast as it could be at its fastest and most efficient. You think the feeling of a pop is able to sustain you despite other perceived drawbacks to the field for 30 years? YOu think when you run up and intubate and line a patient and people and nurses look at you and say thats what a critical care doc is. They say, the crna prolly could have done it better. Look Im not saying you might not do great, im saying look at other parts of the field as well.

 

[maceo]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you sound discontent with anesthesia.

umm, im not discontent about the practice of anesthesia. That still is OK. Its just anesthesiologists have to be strong people emotionally in order to stomach going to work day in and day out ( the work environment) . Moreover, the climate, business and political, in which we practice is very perilous and uncertain.

 

[2ndyear]

Lifestyle means different things to different people. To me, it means nights, weekends, and holidays. Lets face it, unless you do 100% ambulatory anesthesia, you will work your fair share of nights, weekends, and holidays. I'm fine with it right now, but I see people deal with it differently as they age.

 

[maceo]

Lifestyle means different things to different people. To me, it means nights, weekends, and holidays. Lets face it, unless you do 100% ambulatory anesthesia, you will work your fair share of nights, weekends, and holidays. I'm fine with it right now, but I see people deal with it differently as they age.

thats exactly what lifestyle means. DO youw ork nights weekends and holidays? and anesthesiologist do all of the above. WHen you are on call there is a high likelihood when you get called, you have to go do something for 2-4 hours.. at 3 am. its not like when the radiologist gets called.. he just has to read a study for 45 mins, if that, from his home computer

 

[cozmopak]

thats exactly what lifestyle means. DO youw ork nights weekends and holidays? and anesthesiologist do all of the above. WHen you are on call there is a high likelihood when you get called, you have to go do something for 2-4 hours.. at 3 am. its not like when the radiologist gets called.. he just has to read a study for 45 mins, if that, from his home computer

You're right. But it's my understanding that anesthesia is also one of the most flexible fields in medicine, allowing you to work as little or as much as you want, provided that you're not interested in partnership.

 

[ozzie20]

You're right. But it's my understanding that anesthesia is also one of the most flexible fields in medicine, allowing you to work as little or as much as you want, provided that you're not interested in partnership.

The same thing goes for FP, (work locums in an urgent care), IM (same), ER (work locums ER jobs)....

I think the point many are trying to make is the following: ANY job can be a lifestyle field. You'll just earn a third of what everyone else is making in having a lifestyle.

 

[Chrysanthemum]

Why is medicine one of the only fields where people get bashed for thinking about lifestyle? Let's face it, I think anyone here would choose that 40hrs a week job for 400K over a >60hr work week if they could. There is nothing wrong with it either!

I do believe that most med students have a misconception of what a good lifestyle is in medicine. A big part of my decision to apply for anesthesia was based on lifestyle (I do enjoy it as well). For me lifestyle is not having to worry about my patients when I go home after work. Once I'm done, I'm done. No calls in the middle of the night or while on vacation regarding a patient.
And while anesthesia can be quite mentally exhausting it is not half as physically exhausting as some of the other specialties out there and THAT allows me to get my swell-on at the gym after work. 😉

 

[New2Midwest]

I love anesthesia for one of the above reasons: going to codes and showing impotent pulmonary/critical care fellows how to truly take care of a patient. And there they are with their 250 cc bolus of NS ready to go (Thanks Guy!). I just go in there and take care-kick ass-line up the patient- It's like being a tornado!

 

[yasawa]

I'm definitely all for the lack of clinic, absence of call resp. after work, and set work hours. However, I think we do not need anymore lazy people going into anesthesia. They are the reason CRNAs have the power that they do today. I shadowed at an MD only practice in Cali and New york and they were all happy. They chose to work there cause they refused to join groups following the ACT model. It also probably helps that the CEO of both the hospitals were Anesthesia trained with MBAs and were completely against CRNA's. But yes, it def is nice being able to hit the gym or the beach at 4:30!

 

[ChcltSltyBlls]

However, I think we do not need anymore lazy people going into anesthesia. They are the reason CRNAs have the power that they do today.

Exactly. We all need to have lives outside of work. This makes us better people and moreover better physicians.

However, we don't need lazy people going into anesthesia. If all you want to do is sit around drinking coffee all day long while you run several rooms of CRNA's, how is that being a physician? Also, I know of several people in my class who are going into anesthesiology because they want to have children. Not because they actually like the field. How do we filter those applicants out?

 

[dhb]

You can't filter them out but in the end market forces will take care of them.
We should encourage lifestylers to join the field it'll mean the hard workers will have the better jobs.

 

[maceo]

Exactly. We all need to have lives outside of work. This makes us better people and moreover better physicians.

However, we don't need lazy people going into anesthesia. If all you want to do is sit around drinking coffee all day long while you run several rooms of CRNA's, how is that being a physician? Also, I know of several people in my class who are going into anesthesiology because they want to have children. Not because they actually like the field. How do we filter those applicants out?

people have different reasons to go into fields. not everyone has the same exact reason. this is why everyone is different and makes life interesting. If someone wants to go into anesthesia because they want to work in an surgi center with no call so be it. i dont think thats being lazy at all.

Supervising crnas in my opinion is much harder work then one one one anesthesia in my opinion. Im doing MD anesthesia now and its a lot easier than when i was supervising. I was constantly running around here and there when i was supervising. Now when somone pages me.. i just say IM in a case sorry i cant help you and i hang up. Beautiful

 

[Noyac]

Supervising crnas in my opinion is much harder work then one one one anesthesia in my opinion. Im doing MD anesthesia now and its a lot easier than when i was supervising. I was constantly running around here and there when i was supervising. Now when somone pages me.. i just say IM in a case sorry i cant help you and i hang up. Beautiful

Ditto.

The ACT model is not the pts friend IMO. Unfortunately, it is necessary. But I don't need to participate if I don't want to. Life is much easier when you do your own cases.

 

[aphistis]

Ditto.

The ACT model is not the pts friend IMO. Unfortunately, it is necessary. But I don't need to participate if I don't want to. Life is much easier when you do your own cases.

In your experience, has the emergence of ACT practice and the transition from anesthesiologists-as-providers to anesthesiologists-as-CRNA-supervisors played much of a role in your colleagues' job satisfaction? I would think that for people like me who really enjoy providing patient care directly, suddenly switching from one in residency to the less hands-on responsibilities of ACT practice afterward might be an unpleasant surprise. Do you still do all your own cases?

 

[Noyac]

In your experience, has the emergence of ACT practice and the transition from anesthesiologists-as-providers to anesthesiologists-as-CRNA-supervisors played much of a role in your colleagues' job satisfaction? I would think that for people like me who really enjoy providing patient care directly, suddenly switching from one in residency to the less hands-on responsibilities of ACT practice afterward might be an unpleasant surprise. Do you still do all your own cases?

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. I think some people are geared to be supervisors and others geared not to be. It has nothing to do with skills either. Some like to supervise so they can sit in the lounge while others like it so they can essentially do more cases and still others like it so that they don't have to sit on a stool all day. Those that don't like it, like myself, may be perfectionists. I never liked allowing someone to do a case different from how I would do it when I knew there was a better way but I got accustomed to it and it wasn't that big of a deal most of the time. I did like the fast pace, however. Others find some of the crna's confrontational and sort of "know-it-alls". There is a lot of potential for abuse in the ACT model as well. But I just don't buy the "two heads are better than one" line. There is a delay in treatment from time to time with the ACT model that does not happen when we do our own cases. I know this is a generalization but for the most part it is real. I believe it is easy to transition from residency to ACT but it does take some time and not everyone can do it.

Aphisitis, are you a dentist or an anesthesia resident? What is your future plans (if you are a dentist)?

 

[mstudent12345]

I think this thread has brought up some interesting ideas about lifestyle that are worth commenting on.

1) To those 1st, 2nd, and 3rd years out they you ABSOLUTELY should think about lifestyle. I know far too many students who are made to feel the only criteria that they are allowed to consider when choosing a field is do they like the material, and are they helping enough people. LIFESTYLE MATTERS. Ask yourselves how much money you feel you need to make, how often are you ok going back in during the night, what do you want your call schedule to be, etc. These shouldn't be the only things you look at but you know yourselves and you will have to live with your decisions.

What many people on this forum get annoyed about is that most people know not one but several people either in their residency class, their practice or somewhere else who went into Anesthesia simply because of the lifestyle. These people thought that anesthesia is simply punching the clock and all we do is sit on a stool all day. THEY ARE WRONG. Anesthesia requires a HUGE fund of knowledge and significant technical expertise. Unlike almost any other field in medicine we have to decide on things very quickly and there is none other than your colleagues to call to bail you out.

2) That brings me to #2 - do what you enjoy. Lifestyle is important but coming from someone who had a previous career he hated I can assure you that you do not want to do something you hate just because it has a good lifestyle. To make the $$ you need to work hard, that is true in medicine, in law, in business in everything. You will need to put in the extra hours, do the crappy cases (or scut, or bad calls or whatever) and you will miss those ballgames. So make sure you do something that you are willing to make the sacrifice for.

3) So why do people call anesthesia a "lifestyle field"? We do work decent hours, many people take in house call, and everyone starts really early. But what everyone does enjoy is that when you leave the hospital you are done -- no middle of the night calls from the patient in clinic, etc. home is home. Personally I dont mind working hard, but I love that when I get home its just me, my wife and my kid. That works for me. Also, I love being in the OR, and doing the procedures, and the physio, and being that last guy without calling the consults all the time. To me gas is pure medicine and I love it.

 

[Noyac]

I think this thread has brought up some interesting ideas about lifestyle that are worth commenting on.

1) To those 1st, 2nd, and 3rd years out they you ABSOLUTELY should think about lifestyle. I know far too many students who are made to feel the only criteria that they are allowed to consider when choosing a field is do they like the material, and are they helping enough people. LIFESTYLE MATTERS. Ask yourselves how much money you feel you need to make, how often are you ok going back in during the night, what do you want your call schedule to be, etc. These shouldn't be the only things you look at but you know yourselves and you will have to live with your decisions.

What many people on this forum get annoyed about is that most people know not one but several people either in their residency class, their practice or somewhere else who went into Anesthesia simply because of the lifestyle. These people thought that anesthesia is simply punching the clock and all we do is sit on a stool all day. THEY ARE WRONG. Anesthesia requires a HUGE fund of knowledge and significant technical expertise. Unlike almost any other field in medicine we have to decide on things very quickly and there is none other than your colleagues to call to bail you out.

2) That brings me to #2 - do what you enjoy. Lifestyle is important but coming from someone who had a previous career he hated I can assure you that you do not want to do something you hate just because it has a good lifestyle. To make the $$ you need to work hard, that is true in medicine, in law, in business in everything. You will need to put in the extra hours, do the crappy cases (or scut, or bad calls or whatever) and you will miss those ballgames. So make sure you do something that you are willing to make the sacrifice for.

3) So why do people call anesthesia a "lifestyle field"? We do work decent hours, many people take in house call, and everyone starts really early. But what everyone does enjoy is that when you leave the hospital you are done -- no middle of the night calls from the patient in clinic, etc. home is home. Personally I dont mind working hard, but I love that when I get home its just me, my wife and my kid. That works for me. Also, I love being in the OR, and doing the procedures, and the physio, and being that last guy without calling the consults all the time. To me gas is pure medicine and I love it.

That's a pretty good post.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I think that the issue with lifestylers is that they still have to do residency. There is no shortcut there. If they have the illusion that it is a lifestyle specialty, they will be in for a surprise when they hit residency. Their residency cohort will be in for a surprise when they find that they constantly have to pick up the slack for their lifestylers in the group. The positive thing is that the faculty recognize who is who and the hardworkers will get the better letters of rec for fellowships or jobs.
Then the lifestylers are not usually altogether honest with their future partners about their intentions. This leaves the group stuck with someone who doesn't think they should have to work as hard. Frequently, the lifestylers have a sense of entitlement, as if it should be understood that they should not be expected to be the one to stay late or cover the crappy call shifts. That attitude goes over real well.
I am not in favor of recruiting more lifestylers. Because, when you think about it, we all want SOME degree of lifestyle for personal satisfaction. It is just that the lifestylers think that their need for it trumps yours...always. Thankfully, I am in a group where things are shared pretty equally and if you work less, you take the hit in the pocketbook. Overall, pretty fair.