A lot of DO rotations aren't so good...

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I rarely find myself disagree with you, but interviews run from Oct-Jan. A 4th year can set up July-Sept and Feb-April for good rotations, but who the hell still wanna work after the match.

You forget we still need to do audition rotations for the most part and we are forced by the school to take 4 weeks vacation before february.

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[kubyx]

Yet I persistently have people launching personal attacks at me rather than rational, legitimate discussion about how the COCA can contribute to improve the DO clinical training on the average (hint: stop opening new schools)

I suspect the issue most probably have with you is that you are present in practically any negative DO discussion that ever happens on here. None of your posts alone are bad enough to warrant an angry response, but it has become painfully obvious to me over the past few months that you are the one person I see on here persistently reminding DOs why they're inferior. Like a moth to a flame, you just cannot help but inject into every thread regarding why DOs are perceived to be lesser.

DO schools definitely owe their students more than they're getting. I believe subpar rotations affect both types of schools, though. Perhaps with the upcoming merger and expansion of the DO degree, we will see stricter standards enforced. One can hope.

 

[cardiacfarts]

i love lamp

 

[IslandStyle808]

It might help some, but you'd be better off doing one in the same field you plan to do aways and auditions in. E.g. if you're going to apply EM, do an EM rotation at an ACGME program that you think will be low on your list or completely out of your league, so you don't lose much. Get some SLOEs and based on feedback and how many other SLOEs you get, then decide if you want to send that first one to residency programs.

My question pertains to if you have an inadequate 3rd year. If you do a EM rotation right of the bat, and do badly this would hurt you. However, if you do it in another field to prepare for EM, then this would prevent you from having a bad start. Thus when you actually do your EM rotations, you will start strong from the get go and not have that 1st bad EM rotation hurting your application. This is what I am wondering?

 

[68PGunner]

My question pertains to if you have an inadequate 3rd year. If you do a EM rotation right of the bat, and do badly this would hurt you. However, if you do it in another field to prepare for EM, then this would prevent you from having a bad start. Thus when you actually do your EM rotations, you will start strong from the get go and not have that 1st bad EM rotation hurting your application. This is what I am wondering?

That’s the advice given to me.

 

[hallowmann]

My question pertains to if you have an inadequate 3rd year. If you do a EM rotation right of the bat, and do badly this would hurt you. However, if you do it in another field to prepare for EM, then this would prevent you from having a bad start. Thus when you actually do your EM rotations, you will start strong from the get go and not have that 1st bad EM rotation hurting your application. This is what I am wondering?

Yeah, my point was, do a block of EM in early 4th year. Its not going to be on your application (or at least no 4th year rotations were for me - you can find that out from other students), and do the EM rotation. Then if you're worried that you'll get a bad eval from it, just don't use that SLOE in your app. EM (in terms of how it runs with residents) is completely different than say IM. There's no pre-rounding, you don't have a patient census, you're not admitting people (you're just deciding if they need admission), you're juggling multiple people at once for whom you don't have labs or other info back just yet, you're dealing with more procedures, etc. In academia its a completely different environment and culture than IM.

Like I said, in that situation, I'd go somewhere I didn't care much about (i.e. low on my list or way out of my league).

 

[hallowmann]

I rarely find myself disagree with you, but interviews run from Oct-Jan. A 4th year can set up July-Sept and Feb-April for good rotations, but who the hell still wanna work after the match.



Many EM residents strongly advised me not to do a sub-i that is completely out of my league. One example is UCLA as they do not send a guarantee interview to their rotators plus they have stricter standards in order to obtain an honor. In another words, it can be a waste of month when a student can learn as much at a community program compare to a top notch county program. Moreover, some programs now play a game where they will blindside their SLOEs. One example is JPS in Fort Wort of Texas. There have multiple reviews that they would tell you that you're doing fine during the rotation then trash you later on the SLOE letters. Btw, unless you attend an institution that has an EM home program and have someone who can get access to the SLOE, you usually do not know what the content is written about you.

Again, the goal isn't for the SLOE. The goal is going to a program where you'll learn to work, and then you'll feel confident/competent when you actually go to do auditions/aways at the places you actually care about. My point was that if you do 3-4 EM subI's at programs, that's 3-4 SLOEs you have, and you can pick which ones you submit. If you think its likely you did crappy on your rotation, then don't submit that SLOE, but at least you'll have had real experience at a good program.

Obviously if you're not worried about your performance, then don't go to a place that would be way low on your list or out of your league, go to the places that you want to go it.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I suspect the issue most probably have with you is that you are present in practically any negative DO discussion that ever happens on here. None of your posts alone are bad enough to warrant an angry response, but it has become painfully obvious to me over the past few months that you are the one person I see on here persistently reminding DOs why they're inferior. Like a moth to a flame, you just cannot help but inject into every thread regarding why DOs are perceived to be lesser.

DO schools definitely owe their students more than they're getting. I believe subpar rotations affect both types of schools, though. Perhaps with the upcoming merger and expansion of the DO degree, we will see stricter standards enforced. One can hope.

DO and MDs are both physicians, and no indivdual physicians are inferior to another. Some DOs do suffer from poor clinical training during med school and AOA residencies, so do some MDs. In general DOs, especially those who end up in AOA residencies, recieve less well rounded clinical training while DOs who train with ACGME residencies tend to catch up.

That’s my position and all my posts reference that. Does that serve as a reminder that DOs are inferior? Only if you let it and don’t seek out the best training you can get.

 

[GUH]

In general DOs, especially those who end up in AOA residencies, recieve less well rounded clinical training while DOs who train with ACGME residencies tend to catch up.

Do you have any evidence of any of this, especially the last part?

 

[SLC]

DO and MDs are both physicians, and no indivdual physicians are inferior to another. Some DOs do suffer from poor clinical training during med school and AOA residencies, so do some MDs. In general DOs, especially those who end up in AOA residencies, recieve less well rounded clinical training while DOs who train with ACGME residencies tend to catch up.

That’s my position and all my posts reference that. Does that serve as a reminder that DOs are inferior? Only if you let it and don’t seek out the best training you can get.

You still can’t fathom how ignorant you come off when you write this nonsense, can you?

 

[deleted407021]

You still can’t fathom how ignorant you come off when you write this nonsense, can you?

Personal attack alert!!1!




/s

 

[deleted407021]

At my school, just like any other, rotations are a mixed bag. None are 100% good or bad and students at each site have expressed positives and negatives. I’ve yet to hear anyone say their site was bad and wouldn’t recommend it from a training standpoint.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

n general DOs, especially those who end up in AOA residencies, recieve less well rounded clinical training while DOs who train with ACGME residencies tend to catch u

Once again you have no idea what you are talking about, you probably should just stop already as it’s making you look extremely foolish.

 

[IslandStyle808]

DO and MDs are both physicians, and no indivdual physicians are inferior to another. Some DOs do suffer from poor clinical training during med school and AOA residencies, so do some MDs. In general DOs, especially those who end up in AOA residencies, recieve less well rounded clinical training while DOs who train with ACGME residencies tend to catch up.

That’s my position and all my posts reference that. Does that serve as a reminder that DOs are inferior? Only if you let it and don’t seek out the best training you can get.

The point a lot of us are trying to get at is there is a lot of shades of gray that need to be considered. For instance, if all AOA programs are subpar to ACGME program then why are a good chunk of them getting initial ACGME accreditation? Also, if all ACGME programs are that much better then why do a few programs not put all their spots into the match but instead try to pre-match or fill their spots outside the match. You also read about those sweat shop ACGME residencies that work their residents to the ground without providing good teaching, they exist also. I highly recommend reading every nook and cranny of this site and you will see a lot of variability in terms of training whether ACGME or AOA.

 

[DrDude2004]

My DO rotations were a mixed bag, really depended on attending more than what was in school's control.

From day 1 of internship at my university based ACGME program I did not feel inferior to MD colleagues, we all have individual weaknesses that are addressed in course of our (residency) training.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Once again you have no idea what you are talking about, you probably should just stop already as it’s making you look extremely foolish.

So which part of my statement was wrong or extremely foolish?

 

[Rekt]

I rarely find myself disagree with you, but interviews run from Oct-Jan. A 4th year can set up July-Sept and Feb-April for good rotations, but who the hell still wanna work after the match.

Many EM residents strongly advised me not to do a sub-i that is completely out of my league. One example is UCLA as they do not send a guarantee interview to their rotators plus they have stricter standards in order to obtain an honor. In another words, it can be a waste of month when a student can learn as much at a community program compare to a top notch county program. Moreover, some programs now play a game where they will blindside their SLOEs. One example is JPS in Fort Wort of Texas. There have multiple reviews that they would tell you that you're doing fine during the rotation then trash you later on the SLOE letters. Btw, unless you attend an institution that has an EM home program and have someone who can get access to the SLOE, you usually do not know what the content is written about you.

My question pertains to if you have an inadequate 3rd year. If you do a EM rotation right of the bat, and do badly this would hurt you. However, if you do it in another field to prepare for EM, then this would prevent you from having a bad start. Thus when you actually do your EM rotations, you will start strong from the get go and not have that 1st bad EM rotation hurting your application. This is what I am wondering?

I'm going straight into auditions cold and not worried about it. All the upper classmen I've talked to have done the same due to our scheduling. I wouldn't bother with "wasting" a rotation spot. Don't be a complete idiot or a weirdo and do your best and get an early SLOE.

 

[Dwan]

My DO rotations were a mixed bag, really depended on attending more than what was in school's control.

From day 1 of internship at my university based ACGME program I did not feel inferior to MD colleagues, we all have individual weaknesses that are addressed in course of our (residency) training.

You were also likely a much stronger applicant than your MD colleagues.

 

[DrDude2004]

You were also likely a much stronger applicant than your MD colleagues.

Wouldn't know.

Subtle point I was making is that DO rotations can be as good or as bad as MD rotations..

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So which part of my statement was wrong or extremely foolish?

Dude you literally stated that DOs who go into AOA residencies receive subpar clinical training. It’s a stupid, uninformed comment.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Dude you literally stated that DOs who go into AOA residencies receive subpar clinical training. It’s a stupid, uninformed comment.

In general, AOA residencies provide less WELL ROUNDED clinical training than ACGME residencies due to the smaller size or lack of teritary center access.

You used the word subpar yourself. That maybe your own opinion about DO education, but not mine. Please do not put words in my writing that are not of my own.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I understand wanting to remain anonymous about what school you go to, but on the other hand......it would be really helpful for current applicants if those of you who are claiming you had these absolutely terrible experiences shared what schools you attend. If your experiences were truly so bad, wouldn't you want to let others know?

I've been reading this thread as someone who is more than likely going to attend a DO school and has to choose between multiple acceptances, and many of you are trashing your schools.....but trashing your school is kind of pointless if you're not letting people know which school you go to.

 

[arcus]

Wouldn't know.
Subtle point I was making is that DO rotations can be as good or as bad as MD rotations..

Being subtle doesnt work in this group.

My DO rotations were a mixed bag, really depended on attending more than what was in school's control.

From day 1 of internship at my university based ACGME program I did not feel inferior to MD colleagues, we all have individual weaknesses that are addressed in course of our (residency) training.

Some of my classmates hate the MD program here whereas others are indifferent while some gush about our school. Same year students, varied opinions. We mistakenly think in terms of institutions teaching us when it is actually individuals. A brick and mortar school is supposed to provide students impressive professors, committed to teaching their students and interested in their futures. Anyone feel the love yet?

In rare circumstances you might find one or two faculty who slay you. Otherwise its just a job for them.

Your education depends on the faculty that were assigned to you, those you pursued because you heard they were career makers and/or all knowing and wise, and whether you hustled above and beyond compared to what most others do.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

In general, AOA residencies provide less WELL ROUNDED clinical training than ACGME residencies due to the smaller size or lack of teritary center access.

Do you have literally any proof of this? Any at all? Because that is painting with an awfully wide brush..

You used the word subpar yourself. That maybe your own opinion about DO education, but not mine.

Get off your high horse, in what world does someone say things like “less well rounded” and and then go “oh I didn’t mean sub par”?

 

[Dwan]

Wouldn't know.

Subtle point I was making is that DO rotations can be as good or as bad as MD rotations..

I meant that it's hard to make a fair comparison when the DO applicant was far superior in taking advantage of their m3-4 rotations. At my university, the DOs have typically been better clinicians and teachers than the MDs. However, these DOs were top students of their schools (steps 250-260) while the MDs were typically bottom students, who even if they had access to a good education, did not take full advantage of it.

 

[jrlob91]

So which part of my statement was wrong or extremely foolish?

The entirety of it

 

[Blunt Dissection]

So... DCOM. Anyone want to provide some insight?

From what I've heard from my current 3rd and 4th year friends, it's a mixed bag. I've had friends down at our site in Kingsport say they've been 1st assist on surgery and got to play catcher on several deliveries and I've had friends that have gone through Hazard and said the attending just pawned them off to the techs.

I think it should be pretty clear that whether you're at an MD or DO rotation site, you're going to get a mixed bag regardless because in the end, it simply comes down to who your attendings/residents are that are on service that day. Make the best of what you have, what you're allowed to do, and be eager to learn and I think regardless of where you are, that attitude comes through. I spent my summer between 1st/2nd shadowing one of the surgeons at an affiliate hospital and since I was just a shadow, I couldn't actually do anything. What I ended up doing though was bringing my suture kit with me on our clinic days and I'd ask him to teach me and evaluate my technique in between patients so I still learned a lot. During procedures, I stood on a step stool so I could see over his shoulders and the only difference if I had actually been his assist would have been holding the retractors.

Point being, yes, we'll have places that suck, but figuring out how to still get the most out of it is part of the game. I've spoken to a handful of program directors and I've been told that they don't expect us as medical students to know a whole lot beyond our basic sciences on auditions. What they do expect is that while we're auditioning, we're willing to work and learn as if we were part of the team.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Do you have literally any proof of this? Any at all? Because that is painting with an awfully wide brush..



Get off your high

The entirety of it

Let’s hear a counter argument. The entire ACGME merger occured because of a sentiment not dissmilar to my statement.

 

[ortnakas]

Let’s hear a counter argument. The entire ACGME merger occured because of a sentiment not dissmilar to my statement.

No proof or counter proof, but the problem is that you and everyone else in this thread are acting like there’s universal known truths about rotations and GME, and it’s not that simple.

Some DO rotations are bad. Many are solid. There’s no way to know which are which. This is also the case with MD programs, albeit less dramatically so.

In the same vein, some AOA residencies aren’t so great, and yes, that’s a big part of the reason for the merger. But that doesn’t mean all AOA-trained physicians received not-well-rounded or subpar training.

Edit: typo

 

[hallowmann]

...In general DOs, especially those who end up in AOA residencies, recieve less well rounded clinical training while DOs who train with ACGME residencies tend to catch up...

I guess every DO who graduates after 2020 will have well rounded training then. We'll just have to see if your opinion shifts from AOA residencies to "formerly AOA residencies" in that time.

...From day 1 of internship at my university based ACGME program I did not feel inferior to MD colleagues, we all have individual weaknesses that are addressed in course of our (residency) training.

Literally exactly how I feel.

I'm going straight into auditions cold and not worried about it. All the upper classmen I've talked to have done the same due to our scheduling. I wouldn't bother with "wasting" a rotation spot. Don't be a complete idiot or a weirdo and do your best and get an early SLOE.

This is also an option. EM is honestly one of the few fields that doesn't change much with residents vs. without.

I understand wanting to remain anonymous about what school you go to, but on the other hand......it would be really helpful for current applicants if those of you who are claiming you had these absolutely terrible experiences shared what schools you attend. If your experiences were truly so bad, wouldn't you want to let others know?

I've been reading this thread as someone who is more than likely going to attend a DO school and has to choose between multiple acceptances, and many of you are trashing your schools.....but trashing your school is kind of pointless if you're not letting people know which school you go to.

I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't be surprised if many of these experiences could happen at almost any DO school. Most established schools have some good and some bad sites, with some good and some bad rotations. They also have the potential of changing literally on a yearly basis, because sites get added, removed, or even improve with more experiences with students. That makes trashing a school for a bad clinical experience, only mildly helpful to someone 2-3 yrs out from rotations.

The best thing is to figure out which sites are solid at your school from upper classmen and selecting/ranking them. From an applicant standpoint, its better to select a program with a lot of 4th year flexibility, so that you could schedule aways.

Let’s hear a counter argument. The entire ACGME merger occured because of a sentiment not dissmilar to my statement.

To be completely honest, it had less to do with quality and more to do with money and power. The ACGME wanted to be THE residency accrediting body in the US.

It also seems like 1/2 of AOA programs could easily meet requirements, and probably another third will do so with some changes. The lower limit in terms of quality on the AOA side is certainly deeper, but there is plenty of overlap.

 

[Rekt]

To be completely honest, it had less to do with quality and more to do with money and power. The ACGME wanted to be THE residency accrediting body in the US.

It also seems like 1/2 of AOA programs could easily meet requirements, and probably another third will do so with some changes. The lower limit in terms of quality on the AOA side is certainly deeper, but there is plenty of overlap.

I can't imagine ACGME is as strict as people think. I've rotated with IM residents from a formerly AOA only program that I was 100% sure would close. I find it hard to believe they even have enough volume/pathology. Every resident I've met has been extremely lacking and some are downright going to kill people, but they just got full accreditation recently and took their first MD grads.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Hence the merger.


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[Mbeas]

just finished a 4 week rotation with 2 DO students. arguably the worst medical students i have worked with. they had no idea how to function with residents. they would just disappear around 1pm or earlier. i didn't really care because medical students (MD or DO) are mostly useless. the MD students are generally around. as a DO who went to a great DO school with good rotations, this was a real eye opener for me.

 

[68PGunner]

just finished a 4 week rotation with 2 DO students. arguably the worst medical students i have worked with. they had no idea how to function with residents. they would just disappear around 1pm or earlier. i didn't really care because medical students (MD or DO) are mostly useless. the MD students are generally around. as a DO who went to a great DO school with good rotations, this was a real eye opener for me.

This is not a matter of DO or MD. This is just being unprofessional.

 

[Trollest]

just finished a 4 week rotation with 2 DO students. arguably the worst medical students i have worked with. they had no idea how to function with residents. they would just disappear around 1pm or earlier. i didn't really care because medical students (MD or DO) are mostly useless. the MD students are generally around. as a DO who went to a great DO school with good rotations, this was a real eye opener for me.

So what is it that you didn t like? I cant believe your blaming it on them being DO, could it be their personality?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Hence the merger.


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The merger has literally nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Doc_Ock]

The merger has literally nothing to do with this thread.

Since you’re a child that needs it spelled out for you, I’ll oblige.
As a result of the merger all rotations will be held to the same standard, unlike now where DO rotations are seen as inferior to allopathic residencies due to different governing bodies.
Dipstick.


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[hallowmann]

Since you’re a child that needs it spelled out for you, I’ll oblige.
As a result of the merger all rotations will be held to the same standard, unlike now where DO rotations are seen as inferior to allopathic residencies due to different governing bodies.
Dipstick.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Umm... The merger has nothing to do with DO *medical student* rotations. We're not talking specifically about residencies in this thread.

I suppose there might be some change in the rotations with the merger, because now those students will be rotating with ACGME residents instead of AOA residents, but its not like that will significantly change the experiences DO students have on rotations.

 

[Neopolymath]

Since you’re a child that needs it spelled out for you, I’ll oblige.
As a result of the merger all rotations will be held to the same standard, unlike now where DO rotations are seen as inferior to allopathic residencies due to different governing bodies.
Dipstick.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Awfully aggressive language for someone who clearly has a fundamentally misunderstanding of the topic...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

As a result of the merger all rotations will be held to the same standard, unlike now where DO rotations are seen as inferior to allopathic residencies due to different governing bodies.
Dipstick.

Let me spell it out for you since you’re a pre-med who has no idea what we are talking about: the merger has absolutely nothing to do wth medical student rotations. Sorry to ruin your epic burn, maybe next time you’ll have the flamethrower pointed in the right direction

 

[DO2015CA]

Since you’re a child that needs it spelled out for you, I’ll oblige.
As a result of the merger all rotations will be held to the same standard, unlike now where DO rotations are seen as inferior to allopathic residencies due to different governing bodies.
Dipstick.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Confused by this.. are you comparing DO medical student rotations to ACGME residency rotations? If so, of course the OMS rotations have different governing bodies than allopathic residencies do... even MD medstudent rotations have a different governing body than allopathic residency rotations (AAMC vs. ACGME)

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Since you’re a child that needs it spelled out for you, I’ll oblige.
As a result of the merger all rotations will be held to the same standard, unlike now where DO rotations are seen as inferior to allopathic residencies due to different governing bodies.
Dipstick.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Merger has nothing to do with rotations. Part of the reason for the merger was the impending banishment of AOA grads from doing ACGME fellowships as many fellowship PD do not feel that some of those graduates are adequately trained at a level to begin fellowship.

 

[deleted831695]

Merger has nothing to do with rotations. Part of the reason for the merger was the impending banishment of AOA grads from doing ACGME fellowships as many fellowship PD do not feel that some of those graduates are adequately trained at a level to begin fellowship.

Nice jab at the end. Let's be real, as with many things in life, it's all about $$$ and powah.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

as many fellowship PD do not feel that some of those graduates are adequately trained at a level to begin fellowship.

Hmm.... then why did they continue to take those AOA grads for fellowships? Once again seems like a sweeping generalization.

 

[SLC]

Merger has nothing to do with rotations. Part of the reason for the merger was the impending banishment of AOA grads from doing ACGME fellowships as many fellowship PD do not feel that some of those graduates are adequately trained at a level to begin fellowship.

There was literally nothing requiring fellowship PD’s to match residents from AOA programs. Those that feel that way were and always have been free to match the candidates they choose. The merger had nothing to do with perceptions of inadequacy on the part of AOA grads.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Hmm.... then why did they continue to take those AOA grads for fellowships? Once again seems like a sweeping generalization.

Because the merger occured? The merger occured before the fellowship banishment deadline if I remember correctly. There was a thread in this forum about this.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Because the merger occured? The merger occured before the fellowship banishment deadline if I remember correctly. There was a thread in this forum about this.

No, AOA grads have been matching ACGME fellowships for a long time and did so year after year. If AOA grads were so poor then how come these programs continued to take them? And they aren’t just the uncompetitive fellowships either...

The merger was about money and power.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

No, AOA grads have been matching ACGME fellowships for a long time and did so year after year. If AOA grads were so poor then how come these programs continued to take them? And they aren’t just the uncompetitive fellowships either...

The merger was about money and power.

http://www.acgme.org/Portals/0/PDFs/Nasca-Community/FAQs.pdf

Under page 16. Appendix 1, question: Will individuals who are currently enrolled in AOA approved residency program be eligible for entry into ACGME accredited fellowships

Answer: effective july 1, 2016, eligiblity requirement for all fellowship positions require completion of prerequest training in a program accredited by ACGME, the RCPSC (candian) or CFPC (canadian).

Mind you, this isn’t from me. This is from the ACGME. Many fellowships are not ACGME accredited, perhaps explaining the source of your confusion.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

There was literally nothing requiring fellowship PD’s to match residents from AOA programs. Those that feel that way were and always have been free to match the candidates they choose. The merger had nothing to do with perceptions of inadequacy on the part of AOA grads.

Please reference the ACGME faq above.

 

[hallowmann]

http://www.acgme.org/Portals/0/PDFs/Nasca-Community/FAQs.pdf

Under page 16. Appendix 1, question: Will individuals who are currently enrolled in AOA approved residency program be eligible for entry into ACGME accredited fellowships

Answer: effective july 1, 2016, eligiblity requirement for all fellowship positions require completion of prerequest training in a program accredited by ACGME, the RCPSC (candian) or CFPC (canadian).

Mind you, this isn’t from me. This is from the ACGME. Many fellowships are not ACGME accredited, perhaps explaining the source of your confusion.

You're missing the part where if the DO is coming from a pre-accredited (as in only a program that has applied for a ACGME accreditation - says nothing about whether they'll attain it) AOA program, then fellowship requirements are based on the 2013 eligibility requirements.

Yeah, that literally makes no mention of inadequacy of AOA training. You're extrapolating that. They made a policy change in order to "streamline" (read: take over) GME training. It was the best way to strong-arm the AOA without significantly screwing over ACGME programs (which is fine, I honestly don't care, and think the merger is overall a pro for the DO profession).

The point you're missing is what SLC and AnatomyGrey12 have said. ACGME fellowships were already taking AOA graduates. In fact they continued to do so, even when no programs had transitioned (agreeing to the merger MOU happened in 2014, but the first applications to transition didn't open until 2015). You can just as easily extrapolate the argument that since this was the case, it had little to do with the quality of AOA grads going into ACGME fellowships.

Now that too is an extrapolation. Unfortunately none of us can be certain, but our extrapolation and the belief that the merger had little to do with quality and everything to do with money and power is a bit more believable based on the facts than yours.

As I've already said ~50% of programs that have applied have already attained initial ACGME accreditation, ~17% haven't even been reviewed once yet (but its likely at least half will get accredited once reviewed), and again I wouldn't be surprised if another 25% that submitted managed to implement changes in the next 2 yrs to attain accreditation. The majority of AOA programs are able to get ACGME with basically no change, and another chunk need to make doable changes. This doesn't really paint the picture of most AOA programs having training below that of ACGME requirements that you seem to be implying throughout this thread.

Don't get me wrong, there are/were some really bad AOA programs out there, but be careful not to translate that into "most AOA programs are bad, and therefore most AOA grads have insufficient training".

EDIT: Also, to be clear, I'm saying this as someone in a university ACGME training program, so I have no dog in this fight. I just happen to come from a state with a lot of quality AOA programs. I also rotated at some that are now ACGME accredited and were in the process of doing the apps when I was there. Little had to change, they were already meeting the requirements, they just had to put it out on paper.