A question on schools without full accreditation

[willrocks]

If I was to graduate from a school with Precandidate or Candidate status, and I passed the boards in that state, would I be able to practice in any state? I came across a website that suggested that courses taken at a school that is not fully accredited will not transfer to any other institution and students will not be able to practice out of that state. Can somebody clarify on this?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[crazybob]

If I was to graduate from a school with Precandidate or Candidate status, and I passed the boards in that state, would I be able to practice in any state? I came across a website that suggested that courses taken at a school that is not fully accredited will not transfer to any other institution and students will not be able to practice out of that state. Can somebody clarify on this?

if you want to practice in another state, you have to pass the exams for that state. check to see if you can take the state licensing exams if you are looking to practice out of state.

 

[themulya]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7671760

Read post #22 to learn about accredidation. Basically, a school tries to achieve candidate status before it graduates its first class. When it does graduate its first class it becomes fully accredited. So if you graduate anywhere, basically that school will be fully accredited.

Now if for some reason your school never becomes accredited by the ACPE you cannot practice anywhere. You cannot sit down for the NAPLEX, thus meaning you wont get your license.

Now once you've graduated you take the NAPLEX test which is the national board exam. However you must also take your states law test, which is different for every state. If you want to practice in another state besides the one your school is in, you will have to take that state's law test and register with that state's board of pharmacy before you can practice in that state.

Now onto that last question. As I said earlier, by the time you graduate, your school will be accredited. A school will become accredited as soon as it graduates its first class as long as it follows ACPE guidelines. So as long as you pass a state's law test and pass the NAPLEX, you're golden.

About transferring credit. All school's policies are different. I'm sure that there are schools out there that will not let you take a course from another pharmacy school to replace one of theirs. At my school we can but their are some pretty strict stipulations and isn't worth all the trouble. But in that sense you are right in that my school will not let us replace a class at a precandidate or candidate school. If we do decide to transfer credit it must be from an accredited institution.

 

[gll8889]

Now if for some reason your school never becomes accredited by the ACPE you cannot practice anywhere. You cannot sit down for the NAPLEX, thus meaning you wont get your license.

This is not true. Check with the state where you will be going to school and the state where you will practice (if they are different). It's unlikely that by the time you graduate they will be non-accredited, but it could happen I guess.

I think if you graduate from a non-accredited school in California, the state board of pharmacy will allow you to practice in the state, but other states may not accept it. Kind of like gay marriage in a way.

This isn't that much different from graduating from a foreign medical school or pharmacy school and then wanting to practice in the US.

 

[UCSF13]

If a new school has candidate status, then I believe the first class can take the boards and practice, regardless if the school gets fully accredited. But for any class after, the school has to be fully accredited. Before haters start posting outrageous posts and start trashing this post, I am not a 100% sure on this, but I think I am right. You can correct me if you know the answer 100%. In order to practice in a different state, you have the take the law exam for each state.

 

[themulya]

This is not true. Check with the state where you will be going to school and the state where you will practice (if they are different). It's unlikely that by the time you graduate they will be non-accredited, but it could happen I guess.

I think if you graduate from a non-accredited school in California, the state board of pharmacy will allow you to practice in the state, but other states may not accept it. Kind of like gay marriage in a way.

This isn't that much different from graduating from a foreign medical school or pharmacy school and then wanting to practice in the US.

From the US Bureau of Labor Statistics

Licensure. A license to practice pharmacy is required in all States, the District of Columbia, and all U.S. territories. To obtain a license, a prospective pharmacist must graduate from a college of pharmacy that is accredited by the ACPE and pass a series of examinations. All States, U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia require the North American Pharmacist Licensure Exam (NAPLEX), which tests pharmacy skills and knowledge. Forty-four States and the District of Columbia also require the Multistate Pharmacy Jurisprudence Exam (MPJE), which tests pharmacy law. Both exams are administered by the National Association of Boards of Pharmacy (NABP). Each of the eight States and territories that do not require the MJPE has its own pharmacy law exam. In addition to the NAPLEX and MPJE, some States and territories require additional exams that are unique to their jurisdiction.

Also a note of interest

All jurisdictions except California currently grant license transfers to qualified pharmacists who already are licensed by another jurisdiction. Many pharmacists are licensed to practice in more than one jurisdiction. Most jurisdictions require continuing education for license renewal. Persons interested in a career as a pharmacist should check with individual jurisdiction boards of pharmacy for details on license renewal requirements and license transfer procedures.

 

[onehot]

Search button is your friend.

No school has ever failed to reach full-accrediation after receiving pre-candidate status. You're safe once the school has pre-candidate status.

 

[IrishRxMan]

I think the failed school of pharmacy out in Hawaii actually had classes sitting, which they would have had to have been granted pre-candidate status to open their doors. If I'm not mistaken, they just didn't keep up with the steps to reach candidate status which is why ACPE shut them down.

California is strange with their laws and allowing licensed people from other states to practice there. My step brother is a lawyer and he said he couldn't go practice law in Cali with his license. I'm sure it's the same for other professions.

 

[confettiflyer]

I feel loved, someone cited my kick ass accreditation post!

Correct, if your school fails to climb out of pre-accreditation, you can't be a pharmacist anywhere, end of story. You cannot "graduate" from a pre-accredited program, if it's been stuck at pre-accred for 4 years, it will most likely shut down.

This has never happened in the history of ACPE, but it's still a risk to consider.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I feel loved, someone cited my kick ass accreditation post!

Correct, if your school fails to climb out of pre-accreditation, you can't be a pharmacist anywhere, end of story. You cannot "graduate" from a pre-accredited program, if it's been stuck at pre-accred for 4 years, it will most likely shut down.

This has never happened in the history of ACPE, but it's still a risk to consider.

What happened w/ HICP?

 

[SHC1984]

The smartest thing to do is to only apply to fully accredited schools. If you can't get into a school thats fully accredited than pharmacy is not for you.

 

[rhythmspirit]

The smartest thing to do is to only apply to fully accredited schools. If you can't get into a school thats fully accredited than pharmacy is not for you.

please leave this thread and forum immediately

 

[confettiflyer]

The smartest thing to do is to only apply to fully accredited schools. If you can't get into a school thats fully accredited than pharmacy is not for you.

lol, per my previous posts, I spent too much time chasing tail and partying as an undergrad. I was faced with a choice: a) spend 2 years getting a master's/boost GPA with a post-bacc or b) pick a newer school with lower admission stats and rock it.

No brainer, 2 years = ~$250k in lost salary + tuition costs.

 

[confettiflyer]

What happened w/ HICP?

Are you being sarcastic? or is that a real question?

Haha, reason I ask is because this topic has been beaten to death on SDN. In fact, news of it started breaking on this forum back in '04.

Basically, a bunch of ******s opened HICP (Hawaii College of Pharmacy) with some ungodly amount of students in their entering class (250?) Better yet, they never bothered to do any type of pre-accreditation. Apparently the facilities were "eh" also (folding chairs, etc...)

Well, they submitted their app directly for candidate status (you could do that at the time) and were flat out denied. School closed, went bankrupt, and their founders made out like gangbusters and are now somewhere in the US doing other things.

Students were SOL and sitting on 1-2 years of private student loans that still needed to be paid off. One of my ex-coworkers at the mortgage co. I was at was one of those students (she graduated Western sometime last year). There are SDN members still active that were students at that school (all of them moved on).

I hope I'm not opening old wounds with this post, that event is the reason why ACPE started instituting changes so it would never happen again. In the 5 years since, a falling out of this nature has never reoccurred because of the hoops schools jump through before students even set foot on campus.

If you're curious, search for HICP. Note: Do NOT confuse HICP with the legit state school University of Hawaii at Hilo. I actually just did a search and it's a little hard to dig up the threads, here they are if you're curious.

DO NOT be a douche and reply in them and bring them back to life, that's just annoying:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=117186
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=212810
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=317233
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=172613

There are about 2600 posts to read through amongst these 4 threads. The last link contains about 1925 replies alone.

 

[SHC1984]

please leave this thread and forum immediately

No need to take out anger on the truth. If you can't get in, you can't get in. And if you can't get in, you are the one that should be leaving the PHARMACY forums.

 

[SHC1984]

lol, per my previous posts, I spent too much time chasing tail and partying as an undergrad. I was faced with a choice: a) spend 2 years getting a master's/boost GPA with a post-bacc or b) pick a newer school with lower admission stats and rock it.

No brainer, 2 years = ~$250k in lost salary + tuition costs.

I guess what I am trying to say is non-accredited schools are the reason why pharmacists hold absolutely NO prestiage or respect whatsoever.

 

[confettiflyer]

I guess what I am trying to say is non-accredited schools are the reason why pharmacists hold absolutely NO prestiage or respect whatsoever.

i think people misspelling words like "prestige" are the reason why pharmacists don't get respect

besides, carib. MD students still get the same respect as other physicians (idiot pre-meds don't count), so your theory is, well, a bit flawed.

and didn't i teach you anything about saying stupid shiet like "non-accredited school?" check my post that someone cited.

 

[SHC1984]

i think people misspelling words like "prestige" are the reason why pharmacists don't get respect

besides, carib. MD students still get the same respect as other physicians (idiot pre-meds don't count), so your theory is, well, a bit flawed.

and didn't i teach you anything about saying stupid shiet like "non-accredited school?" check my post that someone cited.

Carib Med schools are still much harder to get into than pharmacy schools. Besides, whats with the anger? You don't agree that if someone can't get into a good pharmacy school than they shouldn't be a pharmacist? So you think anyone should be able to be a pharmacist? thats cool, but I do not agree. I hate threads that say "I have a 50 PCAT 2.0 GPA, HELP!!! Give me a list of schools that I can get into easily please!!! B/c everyone deserves a seat in pharmacy school, even me!!!"

 

[confettiflyer]

Carib Med schools are still much harder to get into than pharmacy schools. Besides, whats with the anger? You don't agree that if someone can't get into a good pharmacy school than they shouldn't be a pharmacist? So you think anyone should be able to be a pharmacist? thats cool, but I do not agree. I hate threads that say "I have a 50 PCAT 2.0 GPA, HELP!!! Give me a list of schools that I can get into easily please!!! B/c everyone deserves a seat in pharmacy school, even me!!!"

you have issues extracting the idiosyncratic meanings of what i type

 

[Passion4Sci]

I gotta disagree, SHC. You can get into Ross medical school with a check for $65,000 and a 3.1 GPA and a weak (30) MCAT. Caribs are NOT at all exclusive or choosy. And hell, you can even buy your way into Albert Einstein if you know the right people and have the cash. Stop being naive and obtuse.

And Confetti is right. Is reminds me of a saying my brother in law is saying when defending his med school choice: "What do you call someone who graduated from Harvard, and what do you call someone from Ross? Doctor." That's his point, SHC.

@Confetti - I knew vaguely what happened, I wasn't trying to be rowdy. The main reason I brought it up was that it smacks of what's happening at CNCP right now. What if CNCP folds for whatever reason and all these students are stuck with Sallie Mae and Chase loans that now they won't have even have an education to back up? Just mulling it over in my mind.

 

[confettiflyer]

@Confetti - I knew vaguely what happened, I wasn't trying to be rowdy. The main reason I brought it up was that it smacks of what's happening at CNCP right now. What if CNCP folds for whatever reason and all these students are stuck with Sallie Mae and Chase loans that now they won't have even have an education to back up? Just mulling it over in my mind.

Yeah, that's why I warned people to stay away until its accreditation was clarified. It's @ candidate now, so it's water under the bridge...it'll be the next USN. Anyone remember when they opened? Their GPA average was like 2.9, and, in less than a decade, it's one of the hardest programs to get into GPA wise (~3.7-3.8 I think?).

New programs are always going to get picked on, so the smart applicants will vet them out and pick the school that will disappear from the "new school outrage" radar much in the same way as USN, Touro, and Pacific U did.

So history will repeat...in 5-7 years another smarmy confettiflyer will get into a tussle with a SHC1984-clone who will complain that new schools are ruining the profession and that smart people will only go to established schools like Sullivan, Touro NY, Regis, and CNCP.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Can you imagine the hubbub that would happen if, say, Harvard opened a pharmacy school?

Oh my.

 

[Sparda29]

Can you imagine the hubbub that would happen if, say, Harvard opened a pharmacy school?

Oh my.

I've heard rumors about SUNY Stony Brook opening up one. That would have definitely been my school of choice if it was available when I was applying. (I can't stand public transportation and traffic jams.)

Also, the Carribean Med Schools are quite easy to get into. I was invited for an interview at Xavier but declined it because I had gotten into Touro NY. My stats were like 3.1 GPA, 22M MCAT, and 2 months of shadowing a physician.

In the Caribbean medical schools, you can get a legitimate education, but you need to be really motivated to go there. They aren't going to be as helpful, forgiving, and as spoonfeeding as the schools in the US.

That would of course be everyone's number ONE concern. It's quite scary to think about shelling out $90k for tuition plus let's say another $60k for living expenses for the next three years, and then not be able to sit for the boards.

On a positive note - I don't think I've heard of any new pharmacy schools have troubles with acquiring accredidation.

Whoever the CEO is or whoever's making the PROFITS is a genius. If I only had the capital to create a pharmacy school in a tropical paradise and have my FIRST incoming class consist of 130 students forking over $30k.

Hmm, wow, good job of jinxing it...

 

[ValeRx]

"What do you call someone who graduated from Harvard, and what do you call someone from Ross? Doctor." That's his point, SHC.

While this saying is technically true, it is not entirely accurate. Someone who gets into a well established and nationally recognized pharmacy school is going to be, more than likely, a much stronger pharmacist than someone who got into say, University of New England. Not to offend anyone that goes there but it just opened and their faculty/rotation quality is most likely lacking.

While I really put no stock into ivy league colleges, due to their extremely competitive nature, I would put more trust into a person who attended a more well-respected college.

 

[Passion4Sci]

While this saying is technically true, it is not entirely accurate. Someone who gets into a well established and nationally recognized pharmacy school is going to be, more than likely, a much stronger pharmacist than someone who got into say, University of New England. Not to offend anyone that goes there but it just opened and their faculty/rotation quality is most likely lacking.

While I really put no stock into ivy league colleges, due to their extremely competitive nature, I would put more trust into a person who attended a more well-respected college.

I wasn't talking about a pharmacy school. I was talking about medical school, in reply to SHC1984.

My bro-in-law, graduating from Ross, is taking the same USMLE steps and doing the same rotations as folks from HMS, Albert Einstein, Johns Hopkins, UCNC and other "famous" medical schools.

As far as pharmacy school goes, Mikey gave me pretty convincing arguments for his area suggesting that all schools, essentially, pump out the same quality of pharmacist/resident. Now, in my experience on the left coast, at my hospital, we have a few schools represented, and I can close my eyes and tell the difference between the UCSF resident and the Touro resident.

Reputation and ranking is such a nebulous, sinuous problem.

 

[confettiflyer]

Not to offend anyone that goes there but it just opened and their faculty/rotation quality is most likely lacking.

or you can do what i did and go to a school where other prestigious schools send their students for rotations

this goes back to my vetting process argument, granted it's easier to pick a top 10/top 20 and not dig any further.

 

[UCSF13]

The smartest thing to do is to only apply to fully accredited schools. If you can't get into a school thats fully accredited than pharmacy is not for you.

What a stupid comment to make. A school has to start out at pre-candidate right? Are you saying that Touro students were stupid for attending Touro? It's fully accredited now, so what is the difference?? I'm defending everyone that got accepted to a pre-candidate school or is currently at a candidate school because I don't agree with your comment. As far as the med schools in the Caribbeans, if you have a pulse, you get accepted. I'm not saying you won't get a good education but it's not harder to get accepted than pharmacy school. I know some doctors that are really successful that went to the Caribbeans. And by the way, it's "then," not "than." Learn how to differenciate between the two my friend.

 

[UCSF13]

i think people misspelling words like "prestige" are the reason why pharmacists don't get respect

besides, carib. MD students still get the same respect as other physicians (idiot pre-meds don't count), so your theory is, well, a bit flawed.

and didn't i teach you anything about saying stupid shiet like "non-accredited school?" check my post that someone cited.

Confettiflyer, this person doesn't know when to use "than" or "then" so that's another reason why we don't get respected. By the way, I saw you posted in the CNCP forum and you said that CNCP will never be top 10 (which I agree), but you're at a new school too right? So I don't think it's fair to judge another new school unless you think your school is going to be great in the next 10 years. Not trying to start anything, I was just wondering..

 

[Passion4Sci]

What a stupid comment to make. A school has to start out at pre-candidate right? Are you saying that Touro students were stupid for attending Touro? It's fully accredited now, so what is the difference?? I'm defending everyone that got accepted to a pre-candidate school or is currently at a candidate school because I don't agree with your comment. As far as the med schools in the Caribbeans, if you have a pulse, you get accepted. I'm not saying you won't get a good education but it's not harder to get accepted than pharmacy school. I know some doctors that are really successful that went to the Caribbeans. And by the way, it's "then," not "than." Learn how to differenciate between the two my friend.

^^ What's the word in bold mean, since you've got your OED in front of you?

There's also only one Caribbean. Caribbeans is completely incorrect.

Before you start pulling out your Grammar Police badge, it would behoove you not to have erroneous statements/words in your own post.

 

[SHC1984]

What a stupid comment to make. A school has to start out at pre-candidate right? Are you saying that Touro students were stupid for attending Touro? It's fully accredited now, so what is the difference?? I'm defending everyone that got accepted to a pre-candidate school or is currently at a candidate school because I don't agree with your comment. As far as the med schools in the Caribbeans, if you have a pulse, you get accepted. I'm not saying you won't get a good education but it's not harder to get accepted than pharmacy school. I know some doctors that are really successful that went to the Caribbeans. And by the way, it's "then," not "than." Learn how to differenciate between the two my friend.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Confettiflyer, this person doesn't know when to use "than" or "then" so that's another reason why we don't get respected. By the way, I saw you posted in the CNCP forum and you said that CNCP will never be top 10 (which I agree), but you're at a new school too right? So I don't think it's fair to judge another new school unless you think your school is going to be great in the next 10 years. Not trying to start anything, I was just wondering..

No, our profession is not respected because people equate pharmacy to a drive-thru bell and we should be asking, "Would you like fries with that?"

Accessibility and our main place of work (i.e., the thing that the general populace sees us doing) is big-box retail, and thus, our profession is colored in this way.

 

[SHC1984]

^^ What's the word in bold mean, since you've got your OED in front of you?

There's also only one Caribbean. Caribbeans is completely incorrect.

Before you start pulling out your Grammar Police badge, it would behoove you not to have erroneous statements/words in your own post.

Most likely some loser that only got into Touro and WISHED he got into UCSF. Well, its the internet so he could just put UCSF 2013 to make himself feel better.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Most likely some loser that only got into Touro and WISHED he got into UCSF. Well, its the internet so he could just put UCSF 2013 to make himself feel better.

There's nothing wrong with Touro...

Maybe someone who got into CNCP though.

 

[SHC1984]

There's nothing wrong with Touro...

Maybe someone who got into CNCP though.

I needed a good laugh for tonight, but I guess I should start reading my posts before I post them. I usually just type very fast and never read it again before I submit.

 

[UCSF13]

WOW you guys got me! I'm actually not even in pharmacy school, I just put UCSF for the fun of it. Man you guys are good, please don't tell anyone OK? Passion4sci, until you actually get accepted to pharmacy school, then you can run your mouth. Right now, you're just a pre pharmacy nobody trying to make himself feel better by putting everyone else down.

 

[SHC1984]

WOW you guys got me! I'm actually not even in pharmacy school, I just put UCSF for the fun of it. Man you guys are good, please don't tell anyone OK? Passion4sci, until you actually get accepted to pharmacy school, then you can run your mouth. Right now, you're just a pre pharmacy nobody trying to make himself feel better by putting everyone else down.

He has a degree from Stanford, a million times smarter than your ******* will ever be.

 

[Transformer]

I gotta disagree, SHC. You can get into Ross medical school with a check for $65,000 and a 3.1 GPA and a weak (30) MCAT. Caribs are NOT at all exclusive or choosy. And hell, you can even buy your way into Albert Einstein if you know the right people and have the cash. Stop being naive and obtuse.

And Confetti is right. Is reminds me of a saying my brother in law is saying when defending his med school choice: "What do you call someone who graduated from Harvard, and what do you call someone from Ross? Doctor." That's his point, SHC.

@Confetti - I knew vaguely what happened, I wasn't trying to be rowdy. The main reason I brought it up was that it smacks of what's happening at CNCP right now. What if CNCP folds for whatever reason and all these students are stuck with Sallie Mae and Chase loans that now they won't have even have an education to back up? Just mulling it over in my mind.

Getting into Ross is not the hardest part, it's getting out with a MD that can be challenging to most students. I cannot see myself studying on an island with occasional black outs and crazy weather conditions. Sounds rough to me. People do what they got to do though.

 

[UCSF13]

He has a degree from Stanford, a million times smarter than your ******* will ever be.

Wow good for him, but I'm the one in pharmacy school and not him! So I'm going to have a degree from UCSF, that means I'm going to be a better pharmacist than you right?? hahaha

 

[confettiflyer]

Confettiflyer, this person doesn't know when to use "than" or "then" so that's another reason why we don't get respected. By the way, I saw you posted in the CNCP forum and you said that CNCP will never be top 10 (which I agree), but you're at a new school too right? So I don't think it's fair to judge another new school unless you think your school is going to be great in the next 10 years. Not trying to start anything, I was just wondering..

Oh I agree, the reason I'm given license by the magical Pharmacy Gods to bash CNCP (or rather, speak my opinion, which some may view as truth) despite my own background at a new school is because of the inherent differences between the two. (I've since throttled back as CNCP has advanced, don't know how long you've been following my posts).

I'm fine with new programs...if Harvard opened one tomorrow, it'd be a "new/pre-candidate status" school, too. It's all about the vetting process and the depth at which candidates look at schools. Many barely scratch the surface and rely only on what's fed to them by the school itself.

For me personally...a big reason why I chose my school (GPA/app strength aside) was because the majors in the area (Temple, USP) rotate into Jefferson for P-4. Also, my school managed to swipe quite a few high quality professors from USP, University of Maryland, and internally via the School of Medicine + hospital practitioners. There's a large university hospital attached to the school + an extensive network of affiliated hospitals/clinics stretching into NJ and DE.

I've done the same research with CNCP and found less robust results, and I make my opinion known. There is no interplay with another professional programs (MD, nursing, etc...), no affiliated hospital or network (ie all rotations have to be outsourced, more than the average school which can rotate some portion of their students internally), no regional accreditation (topic beaten to death), and their faculty at the time of their foundation seemed to be lacking (since remedied).

Another thing that pissed me off was the idiotic applicant pool last year who claimed that they'll have a partnership with UC Davis (sounds familiar? HICP students claimed they had a partnership with USN...I think when I brought up that CNCP would end up paying for rotation spots like Midwestern Glendale, people wouldn't entertain the idea) and did not understand what it meant to rotate internally or what regional accreditation meant in terms of fin-aid....I call it kool-aid, it must be good because it's in California, right?

Hope that answers your question. The school will trudge along and become fully accredited but it will always lack the respect until years of graduates come along, kill the NAPLEX, and rise to uber genius status at hospitals across the country.

 

[Passion4Sci]

WOW you guys got me! I'm actually not even in pharmacy school, I just put UCSF for the fun of it. Man you guys are good, please don't tell anyone OK? Passion4sci, until you actually get accepted to pharmacy school, then you can run your mouth. Right now, you're just a pre pharmacy nobody trying to make himself feel better by putting everyone else down.

*shrug* I'm just behind you in time, that's all mate. I got out of the Army (something you're far too cowardly to do, I'm sure) last year, so I had to realign myself and finish a couple last pre-requisites while you were enjoying the fruits of my labor busting those jihadist type people in the desert.

But that's OK, your entitled attitude fits right in amongst your countrymen. I'm accustomed to it.

BTW - It was a nice ad hominem attack after you had nothing substantive to leverage against me. You wanted to correct SHC's post, but when I corrected yours (because you're an idiot and simple English apparently eludes you) you simply ignored it and then decided to be like, "Zomg I'm in pharmacy school and you're not, lololololol." It's a tired charade.

Hey, can you tell me how "being in pharmacy school" would make my opinion any more valid than it already is about ANYTHING I say on this board? I do my homework. I work in two pharmacy settings and have daily contact with P3/P4s from every school in California just about, and I have spent the last year reading posts by pharmacy students and pharmacists on this board and elsewhere. I really don't think "being in pharmacy school" (What, exactly, does one magically learn in P1 about accreditation?) is germane to this topic at all, it's the only thing you could come up with though, which is pretty damn pathetic. I'm waiting though.

In conclusion, you lose, just like that other mouth-breather "BW1977" or whatever the hell his name was.

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

*shrug* I'm just behind you in time, that's all mate. I got out of the Army (something you're far too cowardly to do, I'm sure) last year, so I had to realign myself and finish a couple last pre-requisites while you were enjoying the fruits of my labor busting towelheads in the desert.

I take offense at this sentence even though I am not of a culture that wears a keffiyeh ("towelhead"). I really hope you don't call people towelheads in real life.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I take offense at this sentence even though I am not of a culture that wears a keffiyeh ("towelhead"). I really hope you don't call people towelheads in real life.

If you're shooting at me, or trying to shred me or my buddies with nails, glass and ball bearings, I don't care what you're wearing.

While I was in theater, towelhead was pretty common, even for folks who don't wear the local garb. I apparently have some adapting yet to do to wimpy ass civilians with porcelain feelings (ugh, the dregs of political correctness) so I'll edit my post to be... more PC. To make it even more exciting, my mother is Iranian, and she came to America in 1979 when the Shah fell. I'm not offended at my own statement, so I don't see how you are, unless you're yet another ivory tower product of this society that puts blinders on to everything in the real world you hold so dear.



I'm glad to see that you're really reading for comprehension there, since the only thing you've got to contribute to this thread is telling me how I hurt your delicate feelings. Grow up with a silver spoon in your mouth, too?

 

[SHC1984]

Wow good for him, but I'm the one in pharmacy school and not him! So I'm going to have a degree from UCSF, that means I'm going to be a better pharmacist than you right?? hahaha

Yeah good for him that he will always be smarter than your *******. I agree! UCSF, you wish you're too stupid to get into Touro.

You are the biggest hypocrite I have ever met in my life. Okay, so you are here defending people that attend pre-can schools, while putting down Passion and me for attend nice colleges?? You really are a confused idiot. So its okay to put people down, as long as you are doing it and no one else is right? LOSER.

 

[diastole]

Now, in my experience on the left coast, at my hospital, we have a few schools represented, and I can close my eyes and tell the difference between the UCSF resident and the Touro resident.

What are the differences that you notice? Is it just a difference in general knowledge or are there other qualities as well?

 

[SHC1984]

*shrug* I'm just behind you in time, that's all mate. I got out of the Army (something you're far too cowardly to do, I'm sure) last year, so I had to realign myself and finish a couple last pre-requisites while you were enjoying the fruits of my labor busting those jihadist type people in the desert.

But that's OK, your entitled attitude fits right in amongst your countrymen. I'm accustomed to it.

BTW - It was a nice ad hominem attack after you had nothing substantive to leverage against me. You wanted to correct SHC's post, but when I corrected yours (because you're an idiot and simple English apparently eludes you) you simply ignored it and then decided to be like, "Zomg I'm in pharmacy school and you're not, lololololol." It's a tired charade.

Hey, can you tell me how "being in pharmacy school" would make my opinion any more valid than it already is about ANYTHING I say on this board? I do my homework. I work in two pharmacy settings and have daily contact with P3/P4s from every school in California just about, and I have spent the last year reading posts by pharmacy students and pharmacists on this board and elsewhere. I really don't think "being in pharmacy school" (What, exactly, does one magically learn in P1 about accreditation?) is germane to this topic at all, it's the only thing you could come up with though, which is pretty damn pathetic. I'm waiting though.

In conclusion, you lose, just like that other mouth-breather "BW1977" or whatever the hell his name was.

No need to continue arguing with confused hypocrites.

 

[Passion4Sci]

What are the differences that you notice? Is it just a difference in general knowledge or are there other qualities as well?

Right off the bat, confidence is the biggest difference. The UCSF resident is snappy with answers to difficult questions, and knew little things that the Touro and UoP graduate didn't. I have gathered through the past few weeks that all 3 of them (4 counting the Creighton guy but I hardly ever work with him) were in the same ballpark GPA-wise, and I don't think there is much difference in terms of intellect.

UCSF guy is never afraid to lead from the front, and could explain how carbon monoxide can deprive a cigarette smoker of oxygen such that quitting smoking, for example, will drastically improve mental clarity, ease of breathing, etc. This is just one salient example of how his command of the material presented in the little "lecture" us volunteers had to endure really came out.

It's obviously anecdotal and really opinion based, but the other volunteers seem to agree... They'd all prefer to work with the UCSF guy than the Touro or UoP guy/girl.

I have tried to keep out sample bias (i.e., the UoP girl is just not that interested in pharmacy but the UCSF guy is, and prolly would've been the same had he graduated from, say, Loma Linda) by polling them independently about why they chose pharmacy, what they like most, etc. After all, it's what I did in the military, so why not apply that expertise to civilian life (Although as you can see I am still working on the transition, harder than I had expected...)?

Anyway, if I had to sum it up in one sentence, it'd be that the UCSF guy (and the other UCSF students I've hadthe pleasure to interface with) are at the top of their game and have a variety of knowledge, whereas the other students/residents are a little more tunnel visioned.

 

[SHC1984]

lol, per my previous posts, I spent too much time chasing tail and partying as an undergrad. I was faced with a choice: a) spend 2 years getting a master's/boost GPA with a post-bacc or b) pick a newer school with lower admission stats and rock it.

No brainer, 2 years = ~$250k in lost salary + tuition costs.

I think we got off to the wrong start. I apologize if I offended you. I have nothing against your school, I don't even know where you attend. Your PCAT was in the high 90s right? thats higher than mine, so I never was directly any comments towards you. In fact we pretty much agree on MOST issues here. My point was (and I am sure you agree with me) that:

1) there is a huge surplus of pharmacists

2) the cause of this surplus is b/c there are too many schools opening up every year.

3) We really need only 1 pharmacy school per state. If there are only ~50 dental schools in this country and there are no shortages of dentists (the last time I check I can go to the dentist anytime I want, so there are no shortages) then ~50 pharmacy school is more than enough. 120+ pharmacy schools is too much. As a result there is a surplus.

4) Threads that have people stating " I have a 50PCAT and 2.0 GPA HELP!!! I hope more schools opening up quick so I can get in easily!!" or " GOOD NEWS!!!! CA just opened up a new pharmacy school AGAIN!!! This means I can get in with sub standard PCAT and GPA!!! YAY!!!!" are beyond annoying....I can't help but respond harshly to those threads.

5) Its a lot better for the pharmacy profession if pharmacy school was actually hard to get into.

6) It would not be good for the pharmacy profession if anyone can easily get accepted. With so many new schools, thats what is happening.


Okay, those are my points. Nothing against you.

 

[Transformer]

Right off the bat, confidence is the biggest difference. The UCSF resident is snappy with answers to difficult questions, and knew little things that the Touro and UoP graduate didn't. I have gathered through the past few weeks that all 3 of them (4 counting the Creighton guy but I hardly ever work with him) were in the same ballpark GPA-wise, and I don't think there is much difference in terms of intellect.

UCSF guy is never afraid to lead from the front, and could explain how carbon monoxide can deprive a cigarette smoker of oxygen such that quitting smoking, for example, will drastically improve mental clarity, ease of breathing, etc. This is just one salient example of how his command of the material presented in the little "lecture" us volunteers had to endure really came out.

It's obviously anecdotal and really opinion based, but the other volunteers seem to agree... They'd all prefer to work with the UCSF guy than the Touro or UoP guy/girl.

I have tried to keep out sample bias (i.e., the UoP girl is just not that interested in pharmacy but the UCSF guy is, and prolly would've been the same had he graduated from, say, Loma Linda) by polling them independently about why they chose pharmacy, what they like most, etc. After all, it's what I did in the military, so why not apply that expertise to civilian life (Although as you can see I am still working on the transition, harder than I had expected...)?

Anyway, if I had to sum it up in one sentence, it'd be that the UCSF guy (and the other UCSF students I've hadthe pleasure to interface with) are at the top of their game and have a variety of knowledge, whereas the other students/residents are a little more tunnel visioned.

UCSF is known to accept students with extensive research experiences and in my opinion, some of the brightest students out there.

The odds are you're more likely to find more brighter minds at UCSF than your average pharmacy school. This is not to say there aren't many bright students at other schools.

 

[Transformer]

1) there is a huge surplus of pharmacists

2) the cause of this surplus is b/c there are too many schools opening up every year.

3) We really need only 1 pharmacy school per state. If there are only ~50 dental schools in this country and there are no shortages of dentists (the last time I check I can go to the dentist anytime I want, so there are no shortages) then ~50 pharmacy school is more than enough. 120+ pharmacy schools is too much. As a result there is a surplus.

4) Threads that have people stating " I have a 50PCAT and 2.0 GPA HELP!!! I hope more schools opening up quick so I can get in easily!!" or " GOOD NEWS!!!! CA just opened up a new pharmacy school AGAIN!!! This means I can get in with sub standard PCAT and GPA!!! YAY!!!!" are beyond annoying....I can't help but respond harshly to those threads.

5) Its a lot better for the pharmacy profession if pharmacy school was actually hard to get into.

6) It would not be good for the pharmacy profession if anyone can easily get accepted. With so many new schools, thats what is happening.

.

I hope you take into account of the recession we are currently in.

No one knows what the economy will be like in 3 to 4 years. What if the economy picks up?? What if we approve and implement our own form of Universal Health care and the pharmacy volume increases?

We really wouldn't be complaining so much about new schools if the economy was doing well.

 

[Passion4Sci]

UCSF is known to accept students with extensive research experiences and in my opinion, some of the brightest students out there.

The odds are you're more likely to find more brighter minds at UCSF than your average pharmacy school. This is not to say there aren't many bright students at other schools.

Of course, which is why when I was in New York and said "I applied to UCSF" they all nodded excitingly and wished me luck. "Where else did you apply?" they inquired. "UoP and USC" I replied. Vague, very vague, looks on their faces... the excitement of "UCSF" gone forever. "Those are in California too, right?"

Point taken, heh. UCSF has brand recognition across the states. Does UoP? Loma Linda? Western? Nope.

But Diastole was just asking me specifically what differentiated the UCSF guy from the others I work with, and I was explaining it. Hopefully I can count myself among their brilliant minds next year, but we'll see.