AASDAS shadowing hours

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southernlady86

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I'm starting to panic about shadowing hours. When I get from from school this summer and I submit my app in June, can I put down the hours that I have scheduled/intended to in advance to shadow for July with my dentist?
 
southernlady86 said:
I'm starting to panic about shadowing hours. When I get from from school this summer and I submit my app in June, can I put down the hours that I have scheduled/intended to in advance to shadow for July with my dentist?
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No. You should only include hours you have accumulated by the time you apply. I suppose you could let the schools know about your continued desire to shadow, but I definitely wouldn't include "future hours" in the application. Why are you concerned? Have you met at least the minimum shadowing requirements set forth by the schools you wish to attend?
 
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Doc Toothache, the application process and keeping our grades up and trying to nail the DAT are hard enough for us. This is a difficult time for all of us as it more or less determines our futures. Do us all a favor and, as someone else mentioned, go live your life and stay out of ours. We don't need you complicating and making things even harder for us as we get closer and closer to finding out if our hard work and efforts have been worthwhile with an acceptance. So unless you have anything actually helpful and kind to say to others on this forum, please don't respond at all. If you were still our age and going through the application process and admissions committees were somehow able to witness how plain mean and bitter you are on this forum, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have become a dentist.

Man, that was building up for a while as I've been reading your recent responses to people. So glad I finally got that out.
 
OP, you can potentially squeeze 40-50 hours in before June if you start now.
 
I'd have to agree that doctoothache is a toothache to everyone here. I suppose he has nothing better to do than lurk the forums for youngsters in need of help, just to make them feel worse about their situations by posting snarky replies. He has contributed much, but I don't see him contributing anything nowadays except extra kicks to the stomach and extra spit in the eyes.

You're a dentist. You should be on the pre-dent forum to help. Otherwise, go onto the resident/practicing forum and find another miserable and bored dentist to speak with. Just because you were stickied doesn't mean you should stick around. Thanks for your contributions, but unless you're here to continue being helpful, what is the point?
 
Update: I agree - just get the hours before hand and report everything honestly on your application. If it means you wait a couple weeks to turn it in then so be it.
 
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doc toothache said:
On what planet, when listing accomplishments, is it acceptable to include items which are barely on an imaginary "to do" list? On this one, at least, such inclusion is considered lying by commission.
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Well first of all, I ONE from COMPLETING my MS. And I intend to put it down. Secondly, the way you are trying to give advice is not constructive. If thats the way you are going to post on here it's no wonder you are still on here. And you have zero credibility even amongst us on this thread. So don't waste anymore space posting on this thread. If everyone on here is complaining about you, then it must be you! And we will continue to live in our imaginary world! 🙂
 
gdm42 said:
OP, you can potentially squeeze 40-50 hours in before June if you start now.
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Thanks so much. I'm going to a Mission of Mercy dental volunteering day at a rural healthcare clinic next weekend it should add another +20 hours . I have to get a hotel room though 🙁
 
Are adcoms suppose to take your word that you will finish your shadowing hours?

If you're going to put shadowing hours in advance, what about volunteer hours, research hours? You see the problem here?

You will be competing with applicants who have finished their hours in a timely manner. Keep that in mind.

There have been medical students who have been dismissed from medical school for signing in/checking in for their clinical rotations and skipping. But perhaps they were just signing in................in advance.
 
Damn, I agree that @doc_toothache goes overboard sometimes but you guys all sound a little ridiculous. Yeah, he might be a sarcastic ass but sometimes questions deserve sarcastic answers.

If you think everyone in the world is going to be ultra-polite every time you ask a question then you are in for a rude awakening.

Funny how you guys blow up in this thread though, because I thought his answer was spot on. You don't lie on your application. Period. I thought that was common sense? Maybe it was just the straw that broke the camels back though...
 
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Is this what they call biting the hand that feeds you?
 
You know honestly instead of sarcasm, how about just not even commenting? If I see people on here giving snarky answers I just glide right over it. Its not worth feeding into the negative energy. I never ever give answers like that. Why? Because its a bad habit to have. I would rather hold my tongue. Maybe you guys will learn someday.
 
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southernlady86 said:
You know honestly instead of sarcasm, how about just not even commenting? If I see people on here giving snarky answers I just glide right over it. Its not worth feeding into the negative energy. I never ever give answers like that. Why? Because its a bad habit to have. I would rather hold my tongue. Maybe you guys will learn someday.
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That's a pretty condescending answer. If it was actually witty and funny, one would think doc had said it.
 
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OP: Only put the hours you have actually completed. It is a slippery slope, and if the committee was to check up on you, it could have disastrous consequences for your application (don't forget that dental schools do communicate with each other).

Now for my 2 cents: You all should be a bit more grateful to doc for his contributions over the years. He may be blunt, but his responses usually get right to the point. Like it or not we are all going to work with blunt and terse professionals / patients during the course of our careers. Better to get used to it on an internet forum than in the real world.

Doc's countless and well-researched Excel docs have guided hundreds (if not thousands) of pre-dents over the years. To suggest that doc is an obstacle rather than a resource in this community is a tad naive. Googling many different topics in reference to d-school admissions will quickly lead you to a highly informative thread compliments of doc toothache.

Also, his response to OP may be a bit terse, but it gets right to the heart of the matter. If you can just put down hours for July, then why not just put down the hours you may do in August and September? Once those interviews come rolling in, will you still follow through on your commitment to shadow all of the hypothetical hours you counted from August in September?

SXCoronado said:
So is bullying kids on the internet but here we are again
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I think the term bullying is a bit hyperbolic perhaps. Also, I don't think it's really accurate to describe pre-dental students as kids. In just 4 years many of us will be treating patients. Why do we suddenly go from being called 'kids' to healthcare professionals in 4 years? 22+ is no longer a kid, and should really be plenty mature to deal with criticism on an internet forum.
 
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I think that it had been building up on here for others. All we're saying is the delivery is not that polite. If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it. Its an old saying in the South 😉 . I think he has been frustrating other people because we are on here to seek support and all of the terseness is not appreciated at this point.

And the point, was to put down hours that I will do in a week or so. And to be honest, at this point I have gathered from others (not taking toothaches advice AT all ) that I will just hold off one week to get those 30 hours I need.
 
southernlady86 said:
I think that it had been building up on here for others. All we're saying is the delivery is not that polite. If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it. Its an old saying in the South 😉 . I think he has been frustrating other people because we are on here to seek support and all of the terseness is not appreciated at this point.

And the point, was to put down hours that I will do in a week or so. And to be honest, at this point I have gathered from others (not taking toothaches advice AT all ) that I will just hold off one week to get those 30 hours I need.
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He had good advice. Everyone who wants to get into the health care field needs to develop tough skin in order to be able to deal with unruly patients. If doc's sarcastic/wry/snarky advice (which was meant to help you) is too much, you need to realize that in the future people will be mean/upset at you and you're just going to have to take it and swallow it.
 
BrazilianRider said:
He had good advice. Everyone who wants to get into the health care field needs to develop tough skin in order to be able to deal with unruly patients. If doc's sarcastic/wry/snarky advice (which was meant to help you) is too much, you need to realize that in the future people will be mean/upset at you and you're just going to have to take it and swallow it.
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And if you give people courtesy and respect, they're more likely to give it back . People love other people with good attitudes. People will be mean and I will just be radiant and happy 😉. And it will take me where I want to go
 
southernlady86 said:
And if you give people courtesy and respect, they're more likely to give it back . People love other people with good attitudes. People will be mean and I will just be radiant and happy 😉. And it will take me where I want to go
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That's fine, I'm not saying that a good attitude isn't the way to go. Being kind, courteous and respectful will get you very far in life. All I'm saying is don't disregard good advice just because it isn't presented in a kind, courteous and respectful way. Good advice is still good advice, regardless of how it's given.
 
Doc toothache has done more for pre-dents on these forums than probably anyone else. You may not like his delivery, but his incredible contribution (the posts in his signature are just a sampling) to this community is undeniable. Plenty of pre-dents come and go, but toothache has been here for 7+ years delivering solid information and advice that only someone who is in the field and who is in direct contact with schools and admissions (something to consider) can offer. As far as 'niceness' goes, there's really nothing nicer than someone in the field with years of experience who sticks around to provide reams of data to people who will use the information and then abandon the forum once they get into dental school or have their one or two questions answered. Without some continuity from folks like doc toothache this place would just be a bunch of pre-dents giving misguided and unsupported advice to other pre-dents.
 
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Cello said:
Doc toothache has done more for pre-dents on these forums than probably anyone else. You may not like his delivery, but his incredible contribution (the posts in his signature are just a sampling) to this community is undeniable. Plenty of pre-dents come and go, but toothache has been here for 7+ years delivering solid information and advice that only someone who is in the field and who is in direct contact with schools and admissions (something to consider) can offer. As far as 'niceness' goes, there's really nothing nicer than someone in the field with years of experience who sticks around to provide reams of data to people who will use the information and then abandon the forum once they get into dental school or have their one or two questions answered. Without some continuity from folks like doc toothache this place would just be a bunch of pre-dents giving misguided and unsupported advice to other pre-dents.
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I understand that Doc Toothache has contributed a lot. None of us denied that facts. People were just commenting on his attitude.
 
hannah_hoac said:
I understand that Doc Toothache has contributed a lot. None of us denied that facts. People were just commenting on his attitude.
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Eh...

SXCoronado said:
doc toothache seriously you're just wasting everyone's time this **** is getting old go live your life please
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DentalGirl5 said:
Doc Toothache, the application process and keeping our grades up and trying to nail the DAT are hard enough for us. This is a difficult time for all of us as it more or less determines our futures. Do us all a favor and, as someone else mentioned, go live your life and stay out of ours. We don't need you complicating and making things even harder for us as we get closer and closer to finding out if our hard work and efforts have been worthwhile with an acceptance. So unless you have anything actually helpful and kind to say to others on this forum, please don't respond at all. If you were still our age and going through the application process and admissions committees were somehow able to witness how plain mean and bitter you are on this forum, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have become a dentist.

Man, that was building up for a while as I've been reading your recent responses to people. So glad I finally got that out.
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snipza said:
I'd have to agree that doctoothache is a toothache to everyone here. I suppose he has nothing better to do than lurk the forums for youngsters in need of help, just to make them feel worse about their situations by posting snarky replies. He has contributed much, but I don't see him contributing anything nowadays except extra kicks to the stomach and extra spit in the eyes.

You're a dentist. You should be on the pre-dent forum to help. Otherwise, go onto the resident/practicing forum and find another miserable and bored dentist to speak with. Just because you were stickied doesn't mean you should stick around. Thanks for your contributions, but unless you're here to continue being helpful, what is the point?
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BrazilianRider said:
That's fine, I'm not saying that a good attitude isn't the way to go. Being kind, courteous and respectful will get you very far in life. All I'm saying is don't disregard good advice just because it isn't presented in a kind, courteous and respectful way. Good advice is still good advice, regardless of how it's given.
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It's not good advice because he has a chip on his shoulder. No one is ever going to be receptive to someone giving advice like that. How many times have people been told they cant do something by negative people? ALL the time. And guess what, for every 10 doubters there's going to be someone who can encourage with a tone that is respectful. He has been on here trying to put other people down and they're getting tired of it. Thanks everyone, you guys really lift me up and defend me on here. I cant wait to see you all on interviews! 🙂
 
southernlady86 said:
It's not good advice because he has a chip on his shoulder. No one is ever going to be receptive to someone giving advice like that. How many times have people been told they cant do something by negative people? ALL the time. And guess what, for every 10 doubters there's going to be someone who can encourage with a tone that is respectful. He has been on here trying to put other people down and they're getting tired of it. Thanks everyone, you guys really lift me up and defend me on here. I cant wait to see you all on interviews! 🙂
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He's not putting you down. He's telling you not to lie on your application... how can you disregard that advice? Even if he's the rudest person on earth that particular piece of advice still has merit.
 
BrazilianRider said:
He's not putting you down. He's telling you not to lie on your application... how can you disregard that advice? Even if he's the rudest person on earth that particular piece of advice still has merit.
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Who said I was lying? If I had planned on shadowing the week after I submit my app then thats not lying.. It is is if you dont do those hours. You should read these posts more carefully instead of assuming. I called schools today and most of them said it was fine to do this and its actually common to do it. If I am planning on taking certain courses in the fall and put those down as planned coursework, then I have to follow through on them. It's the same thing.
 
southernlady86 said:
It's not good advice because he has a chip on his shoulder. No one is ever going to be receptive to someone giving advice like that. How many times have people been told they cant do something by negative people? ALL the time. And guess what, for every 10 doubters there's going to be someone who can encourage with a tone that is respectful. He has been on here trying to put other people down and they're getting tired of it. Thanks everyone, you guys really lift me up and defend me on here. I cant wait to see you all on interviews! 🙂
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Your "defenders" were by far the most negative and bullying bunch of anyone in this thread. The vitriol which Brazilian Rider alluded to earlier did not come from Doc Toothache, it came from a number of pre-dental students. What Doc Toothache said was really pretty innocuous if you ask me. Basically, he was saying "allow me to demonstrate with an obvious example why that would be a bad idea and why you shouldn't lie on your application." You asked a question, and he answered it promptly and got straight to the point. That you took it to be a personal affront is really more to do with you than him.

Go ahead and ignore me too if it makes you feel any better, I'm not here to make friends. But, I'm not going to sit idly by while pre-dental students who have contributed nothing to this forum register a name only to extract information (which likely originated at some point with doc toothache) only to disappear again without contributing anything all and berating one of this forum's single greatest assets.
 
BrazilianRider,
I would just like to point out that I was commenting on these specific forums that doc has been commenting on recently. That's what my entire post was about. I never denied that he HAS helped, but recently, he's just been adding negativity to everyone's threads. Someone can criticize and feel like someone else's questions are "dumb", but there's a nicer way of going about things. So yes, he was being extremely unhelpful and unkind with remarks like his. Someone could have easily just said (like ICUrunning) that it's just not the best question and then the commenter could have proceeded to give substantial advice. That's constructive criticism. His is destructive.

He's contributed so much to these forums with the statistics he has posted, but I would have much rather received that information from a nicer person. Just because someone has greatly enhanced this forum and helped many predents does not give him the right to be rude. His tone isn't just blunt (which isn't that terrible or anything), but it's more of a pretentious attitude that mocks others for their "stupid" questions. Whether or not we know how to respond well to criticism is COMPLETELY different from how we handle negative, rude criticism. There's just a difference and there's no denying that. Some of us don't need to settle for "good advice" as some people stated from someone who's plain mean. We'll take the nicer person anyday.
 
He has helped me in the past and has replied to a couple of my posts before. I appreciate the help he has given. His delivery, though, leaves more to be desired. We'll take the advice (that's why we're here), but as you can see, many can't appreciate it as much because it's presented in a sarcastic and condescending way.

If he REALLY wanted to be direct he should have said, "Don't lie on your application. Wait until you've complete the hours before adding them to your app." You see, that is direct. Even adding in something after like, "You wouldn't add degrees on your application that you've yet to earn or plan to pursue later, right?", would be appropriate also.

Being cocky and arrogant is different than be stern and direct. That's the difference here. You're essentially telling all of the complaining pre-dents that allowing yourself to be disrespected and not treated properly is OK, as long you get something out of it. That's a recipe for disaster as a business owner (which I'm sure the majority of us hope to end up becoming).

I've graduated already and in hindsight, one of the greatest things my major in business has taught me is that the host of service has as much freedom to choose who he serves as the consumer in who they seek services from. This goes deeper than just businesses serving consumers. This touches on how you allow people to treat you (customers interaction with you), how you treat others (your interactions with customers), and who you surround yourself with (who you ultimately choose to do business with).

The thread has gotten seemingly complicated. In reality, it's really very simple. Doc Toothache knows what he does and he chooses to continue on. That's fine, just don't expect your consumers to be as receptive to your style of interaction as you would hope. The newbies will bow at his feet, but after they are here for a while they will get the sour taste in their mouths, too.
 
snipza said:
He has helped me in the past and has replied to a couple of my posts before. I appreciate the help he has given. His delivery, though, leaves more to be desired. We'll take the advice (that's why we're here), but as you can see, many can't appreciate it as much because it's presented in a sarcastic and condescending way.

If he REALLY wanted to be direct he should have said, "Don't lie on your application. Wait until you've complete the hours before adding them to your app." You see, that is direct. Even adding in something after like, "You wouldn't add degrees on your application that you've yet to earn or plan to pursue later, right?", would be appropriate also.

Being cocky and arrogant is different than be stern and direct. That's the difference here. You're essentially telling all of the complaining pre-dents that allowing yourself to be disrespected and not treated properly is OK, as long you get something out of it. That's a recipe for disaster as a business owner (which I'm sure the majority of us hope to end up becoming).

I've graduated already and in hindsight, one of the greatest things my major in business has taught me is that the host of service has as much freedom to choose who he serves as the consumer in who they seek services from. This goes deeper than just businesses serving consumers. This touches on how you allow people to treat you (customers interaction with you), how you treat others (your interactions with customers), and who you surround yourself with (who you ultimately choose to do business with).

The thread has gotten seemingly complicated. In reality, it's really very simple. Doc Toothache knows what he does and he chooses to continue on. That's fine, just don't expect your consumers to be as receptive to your style of interaction as you would hope. The newbies will bow at his feet, but after they are here for a while they will get the sour taste in their mouths, too.
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Actually, most of the time I see people complaining about him, it's the newbies.
 
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southernlady86 said:
Who said I was lying? If I had planned on shadowing the week after I submit my app then thats not lying.. It is is if you dont do those hours. You should read these posts more carefully instead of assuming. I called schools today and most of them said it was fine to do this and its actually common to do it. If I am planning on taking certain courses in the fall and put those down as planned coursework, then I have to follow through on them. It's the same thing.
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Going through life with a flash point lower than that of ether, may not be the best recipe for warding off premature gray hair. If an innocuous, albeit, sarcastic remark, sent you into the stratosphere, it does make one wonder what response to expect when put to the test in dental school setting or in practice. If this turns out to be one of the worst experience in your life, you and your teammates should consider yourselves awfully lucky. Life is likely to provide plenty of trials and tribulations- choose your battles wisely. Incidentally, the South also has a saying about never telling a lie, a tenet which appears to have conveniently been ignored.

Trying to rationalize your proposed action, invoking the claimed support from "dental schools" and the absence of contriteness, indicate a failure in understanding that lying is unbecoming conduct for anyone considering a career in dentistry. You seem to be oblivious to the gravity of the your proposed action. For the comments you claim to have received from "most dental schools" to have any traction, it would have had to come from a faculty with authority. Assuming for the moment that such was the case, there two possibilities: 1. the faculty in question was subjecting you to a test; 2. the faculty in question slept through the lectures on ethics. It is unlikely that there is a single dental school dean that would condone such an action. From what you are saying, it does appear that some staff members of the schools in question are way past due for a refresher course in ethics.
 
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doc toothache said:
Going through life with a flash point lower than that of ether, may not be the best recipe for warding off premature gray hair. If an innocuous, albeit, sarcastic remark, sent you into the stratosphere, it does make one wonder what response to expect when put to the test in dental school setting or in practice. If this turns out to be one of the worst experience in your life, you and your teammates should consider yourselves awfully lucky. Life is likely to provide plenty of trials and tribulations- choose your battles wisely. Incidentally, the South also has a saying about never telling a lie, a tenet which appears to have conveniently been ignored.

Trying to rationalize your proposed action, invoking the claimed support from "dental schools" and the absence of contriteness, indicate a failure in understand that lying is unbecoming conduct for anyone considering a career in dentistry. You seem to be oblivious to the gravity of the your proposed action. For the comments you claim to have received from "most dental schools" to have any traction, it would have had to come from a faculty with authority. Assuming for the moment that such was the case, there two possibilities: 1. the faculty in question was subjecting you to a test; 2. the faculty in question slept through the lectures on ethics. It is unlikely that there is a single dental school dean that would condone such an action. From what you are saying, it does appear that some staff members of the schools in question are way past due for a refresher course in ethics.
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From what I've seen, there's no way you are successfully practicing dentistry. Otherwise you would not have put so much energy into what I'm doing. And it did come from admissions faculty, theres nothing wrong with it. I think you are upset because you are wrong and miserable in what you are doing from what I've gathered on here. Why don't you take a break ? And in a month or two come back and be constructive and give accurate advice! 🙂 🙂
 
southernlady86 said:
From what I've seen, there's no way you are successfully practicing dentistry. Otherwise you would not have put so much energy into what I'm doing. And it did come from admissions faculty, theres nothing wrong with it. I think you are upset because you are wrong and miserable in what you are doing from what I've gathered on here. Why don't you take a break ? And in a month or two come back and be constructive and give accurate advice! 🙂 🙂
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I don't think there's anything wrong with the advice that one shouldn't put anything on an application that they haven't done. Even with your example about degrees, people put "expected June 2017" on their resumes, which leaves no ambiguity about the status of that degree. The planned courses example is the same, because its acknowledged that you haven't done them yet. Putting something that you haven't done yet on an anything is lying, even if you plan to follow through (and regardless of whether admissions faculty have ok'd it).
 
southernlady86 said:
From what I've seen, there's no way you are successfully practicing dentistry. Otherwise you would not have put so much energy into what I'm doing. And it did come from admissions faculty, theres nothing wrong with it. I think you are upset because you are wrong and miserable in what you are doing from what I've gathered on here. Why don't you take a break ? And in a month or two come back and be constructive and give accurate advice! 🙂 🙂
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Looks like the psych course is paying dividends big time.
 
We don't think you are at all a successful dentist, since you are acting this way and also have seemingly so much time to put all this foolishness up here. Put that energy into a meditation class or something 😉 And quit
doc toothache said:
Looks like the psych course is paying dividends big time.
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Sure is. Maybe you should take a few. Definitely might help sort a few things out for you! When I finish dental school, I can guarantee that I won't be on here bullying these predents. 🙂
 
southernlady86 said:
We don't think you are at all a successful dentist, since you are acting this way and also have seemingly so much time to put all this foolishness up here. Put that energy into a meditation class or something 😉 And quit


Sure is. Maybe you should take a few. Definitely might help sort a few things out for you! When I finish dental school, I can guarantee that I won't be on here bullying these predents. 🙂
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Speak for yourself lol, I appreciate Doc's advice and a ton of other people do too.
 
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