ABC News: What Would You Do? Episode

[PharmPrincess]

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This episode aired yesterday on the line between ethics and the law as a Pharmacist. My law professor gave us the link to this. I just wanted to see what people thought about this. Here's the synopsis:

http://abcnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/story?id=7021986&page=1

ABC's "What Would You Do?" set up hidden cameras in Morristown, N.J., at White's Pharmacy on South Street to find out how customers would react in such a situation. Unbeknown to the customers, the pharmacist and the 16-year-old girl were actors hired by ABC News and their dialogue was scripted.

But New Jersey state law is quite real, so it's illegal for pharmacists to deny a valid prescription if they have the drug in stock.

 

[ItsOverZyvox]

What a stupid TV show with stupid writers trying to conjure up scenarios to improve ratings.. Did it air against the American Idol so no one saw it?

That man and the woman should both STFU... none of their business.

 

[fhx06]

Seriously, what professional person would say things like that pharmacist? Their whole conversation seems intended more for shock value than actual depiction of the professionalism of pharmacy employees.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Seriously, what professional person would say things like that pharmacist? Their whole conversation seems intended more for shock value than actual depiction of the professionalism of pharmacy employees.

That was the point...people see an over-the-top event....what do they do..

 

[Jdario86]

This episode aired yesterday on the line between ethics and the law as a Pharmacist. My law professor gave us the link to this. I just wanted to see what people thought about this. Here's the synopsis:

http://abcnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/story?id=7021986&page=1

ABC's "What Would You Do?" set up hidden cameras in Morristown, N.J., at White's Pharmacy on South Street to find out how customers would react in such a situation. Unbeknown to the customers, the pharmacist and the 16-year-old girl were actors hired by ABC News and their dialogue was scripted.

But New Jersey state law is quite real, so it's illegal for pharmacists to deny a valid prescription if they have the drug in stock.

Actually, the Bush administration during their last month in office passed a clause (the conscience clause) which protects pharmacists, doctors any healthcare provider to deny care to a patient for religious reasons. The Obama administration is currently trying to undo this clause.

 

[Old Timer]

I guess nobody cared that this conversation should have been private and it was a violation of HIPPA as well as state law. Why should it have been in public.

The media sucks. 50% of what they say is outright false and the other 50% is suspect....

 

[Jdario86]

I guess nobody cared that this conversation should have been private and it was a violation of HIPPA as well as state law. Why should it have been in public.

The media sucks. 50% of what they say is outright false and the other 50% is suspect....

I agree. But is it really "private" if the waiting seating area is next to the consultation window?

I never understand why some pharmacies put their waiting area right adjacent to the consultation window.

 

[chitowngyrl]

Actually, the Bush administration during their last month in office passed a clause (the conscience clause) which protects pharmacists, doctors any healthcare provider to deny care to a patient for religious reasons. The Obama administration is currently trying to undo this clause.

But State law, if it is stricter than Federal Law, is the law that is to be followed. For instance, in the State of IL, we have a law similar to the New Jersey law, that we can not refuse to fill a valid prescription for moral or religious reasons if the medication is in stock. The Federal law may say otherwise, but since the state law is stricter, that is the law we have to follow. So the conscience clause does not apply to states like NJ, IL, or any other state with such laws.

 

[Sparda29]

I dunno, if the patient is dressed up like a skank, I'm pretty sure I'd deny the prescription.

 

[Carboxide]

I dunno, if the patient is dressed up like a skank, I'm pretty sure I'd deny the prescription.

Everything you say appalls me.

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

I dunno, if the patient is dressed up like a skank, I'm pretty sure I'd deny the prescription.

. . . so you'd give the prescriptions only to non-skanky girls?

Anyways, I think the only thing the pharmacist did wrong was violate HIPPA. Let us see ABCnews do this at a physician's office and see whether the results are different.

 

[Sparda29]

. . . so you'd give the prescriptions only to non-skanky girls?

Anyways, I think the only thing the pharmacist did wrong was violate HIPPA. Let us see ABCnews do this at a physician's office and see whether the results are different.

It's likely that skanky girls aren't going to be responsible about it and will likely end up coming back with prescriptions for STD treatments.

 

[Praziquantel86]

It's likely that skanky girls aren't going to be responsible about it and will likely end up coming back with prescriptions for STD treatments.

I think there's a bridge out on the information highway between your brain and mouth.

This video is absolutely ridiculous. I think there need to be a few well-written letters to ABC about just how wrong this is.

 

[Hendlefe]

I dunno, if the patient is dressed up like a skank, I'm pretty sure I'd deny the prescription.

She wasn't even dressed up that skanky. Do you live in Mormon-ville or something?

 

[Sparda29]

She wasn't even dressed up that skanky. Do you live in Mormon-ville or something?

I wasn't referring to that girl. That girl, yeah I'd dispense it the medication but if someone comes to the pharmacy and looks like they work at a strip club, then no I won't dispense it.

 

[FORTLIVINGROOM]

I wasn't referring to that girl. That girl, yeah I'd dispense it the medication but if someone comes to the pharmacy and looks like they work at a strip club, then no I won't dispense it.

Good joke...


I'd fill it, check to see she's over 16, then give her my card and stress she follow up with me in 30 days...once it's safe

That's a joke BTW



This whole story is BS...they pretty much were trying to coach viewers into intervening if they ever witnessed something like this...why don't they do it about how people will ignore getting involved in violent acts when they witness something...or how people ignore other people who are in distress and need help...?

I hate apathy.

 

[Sparda29]

Good joke...


I'd fill it, check to see she's over 16, then give her my card and stress she follow up with me in 30 days...once it's safe

That's a joke BTW



This whole story is BS...they pretty much were trying to coach viewers into intervening if they ever witnessed something like this...why don't they do it about how people will ignore getting involved in violent acts when they witness something...or how people ignore other people who are in distress and need help...?

I hate apathy.

They actually did something like that for the cold weather. It was pretty cold in NYC a couple months back, and they sent out a pretty cute female reporter without a jacket to see if anyone would offer to help her or even ask if she was feeling cold at all. People just kept walking, but then this one guy stopped and seemed to help then walked away.

I've only encountered one violent situation where I intervened (this girl I liked was getting slapped by her boyfriend so I intervened). But yeah, I haven't been in a situation where a stranger was being assaulted.

 

[PharmPrincess]

I wasn't referring to that girl. That girl, yeah I'd dispense it the medication but if someone comes to the pharmacy and looks like they work at a strip club, then no I won't dispense it.

Although people may not always dress in the best light, wouldn't you want to stop girls that keep popping babies out from many daddies because of unprotected sex? I mean our tax paying money is paying for welfare for these single mothers and i'd rather have her have safe sex than the latter.

 

[Brixius]

I'm not speaking to anybody here directly, but if you have problems with dispensing BC you really shouldn't be working in a pharmacy. Unless it's a health issue, we should be dispensing whatever the physicians write for. To do otherwise is a bit unprofessional and makes us all look bad.

BTW, this is coming from a fellow who voted for Bush twice (and would a third time if possible). 🙂

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

I'm not speaking to anybody here directly, but if you have problems with dispensing BC you really shouldn't be working in a pharmacy. Unless it's a health issue, we should be dispensing whatever the physicians write for. To do otherwise is a bit unprofessional and makes us all look bad.

BTW, this is coming from a fellow who voted for Bush twice (and would a third time if possible). 🙂

nothing personal, but who the hell would want to vote for bush more than once?

 

[FORTLIVINGROOM]

Although people may not always dress in the best light, wouldn't you want to stop girls that keep popping babies out from many daddies because of unprotected sex? I mean our tax paying money is paying for welfare for these single mothers and i'd rather have her have safe sex than the latter.

That's the sticking point tho, most girls (at least alot I've met) don't get the OC AND use a condom....they're not having "safe" sex.

...they get the OC so they don't have to use the condom. Or if the guy knows the girl is on the OC he is obviously not going to be a big fan of using one....unless its a stranger (I would hope).

But for teenagers and young adults all it takes are a few encounters...guy/girl use condom...they get comfortable, ie "in love".....girl gets OC.....no more condom....girl forgets dose(s).....girl gets pregnant.

Now we get into abortion territory.



Personally, I believe people should have to PROVE they can financially and mentally raise a child...if they can't then they have to get support from a parent to prove they can raise a child.

I'm tired of all these arguments about how expensive entitlement programs are and how many trillions we spend on healthcare/welfare...etc. I'm not saying leave single mothers...15yr old mothers...octuplet mothers...to live on the streets....but prevent it from happening in the first place.

What's the cost of an abortion vs. the cost of food, healthcare, and education resources for 18 yrs? It starts to get pretty deep...what value would u put on a human life...can you put a value on a human life?


I had a discussion about this with a Marine in my unit and he said if something like that were in place...his daughter would not be here. He was flat broke for a while after HS until he landed a job. But at the time his daughter was born, they were virtually bankrupt. Well....their parents helped out for a few months until he got on his feet.

Now, I don't think it's the governments job to be a mother. If the mother and father can't support the child and there is no other family support for the child....maybe they need to wait to have children?


This isn't the 1800's where you could always use another set of hands for the family farm.


I guess I'm looking at it as a quality vs. quantity kind of thing:

Have the kid and raise them on state support just above or below the poverty line.

Or wait until the family can raise a child independently in a quality environment.

My $0.02


But like the one poster said.....none of this enters the pharmacy......you put on the white coat and you help the pt take their med and make sure they know how to take it.

 

[naseuy]

I wasn't referring to that girl. That girl, yeah I'd dispense it the medication but if someone comes to the pharmacy and looks like they work at a strip club, then no I won't dispense it.

That isn't your choice to make.

Anyhow, that segment wasn't so much about the pharmacist as it was about the bystanders (who probably don't know much about the profession).

 

[Sparda29]

That's New Jersey though, what I heard from most pharmacists I've known and pharmacy professors is that in NY we can reject prescriptions for any reason we want, just like a restaurant can reject customers for any reason they want.

I now work at a hookah bar as well, if the customers don't show me some ID, they ain't smoking, unless they wanna pay me the $60,000 fine as well. Even if they have an ID, I still might refuse to serve them based on the way they are dressed or acting.

 

[Brixius]

nothing personal, but who the hell would want to vote for bush more than once?

Many of the same reasons that 61 million other people did also. Say what you want about Bush ... he's a man who believes in right and wrong and is not afraid to have his actions match his convictions.

This is your cue to say something terribly overdone about his speaking skills or about his inside job on 9/11. 🙂

 

[Sparda29]

Many of the same reasons that 61 million other people did also. Say what you want about Bush ... he's a man who believes in right and wrong and is not afraid to have his actions match his convictions.

This is your cue to say something terribly overdone about his speaking skills or about his inside job on 9/11. 🙂

I wouldn't discuss politics here unless you're prepared for ****ting wars to start. I have a bunch of reasons that destroy the idea that Bush knows the difference between right and wrong.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Many of the same reasons that 61 million other people did also. Say what you want about Bush ... he's a man who believes in right and wrong and is not afraid to have his actions match his convictions.

Lol...you can say that about all sorts of terrible people.

Say what you want about Adolf Hitler ... he's a man who believes in right and wrong and is not afraid to have his actions match his convictions.

Say what you want about Timothy McVeigh ... he's a man who believes in right and wrong and is not afraid to have his actions match his convictions.

Say what you want about WVUPharm2007 ... he's a man who believes in right and wrong and is not afraid to have his actions match his convictions.

 

[Glycerin]

It's likely that skanky girls aren't going to be responsible about it and will likely end up coming back with prescriptions for STD treatments.

Riiight, because irresponsibility and STDs are limited to skanky girls. Really, you're a complete and utter dolt.

Oh, and that thread about mommy and daddy giving you a curfew? Yeah, I see why. Clearly you lack maturity.

 

[rxliteguy]

haha, these abc episodes are hilarious, exploiting the very unlikely and making pharmacists look bad in society. We need a new drama show like House. Maybe we can call it Hood, a show about the daily drama in a pharmacy. The talking behind before's backs between pharmacists and technicians, technicians and technicians, and pharmacy staff and the general store staff. The yelling by customers, the refusal to dispense BC, Hipaa Violations, and the oxycontin robberies. All of these would make a good show.

 

[Farmercyst]

Lol...you can say that about all sorts of terrible people.

I don't know about that last one.

 

[Brixius]

Lol...you can say that about all sorts of terrible people.

You have to take the sum of his actions into account. We're not talking about Nazi Germany.

I realize you probably didn't try to have a valid point ... you're just being funny.

 

[Brixius]

I wouldn't discuss politics here unless you're prepared for ****ting wars to start. I have a bunch of reasons that destroy the idea that Bush knows the difference between right and wrong.

You're educated, so I imagine you have some well formed opinions, but realize that's all they are ... opinions. Unless you think Bush is evil (ie he staged 9/11 in order to start a war or something of that magnitude) you cannot have any "reasons" that "destroy" the idea that Bush knows the difference between right and wrong. All you can do is disagree with his policies and give valid reasons (which I'm sure you have), but to question the man's morality seems a bit extremist to me.

Geeze, I disagree with Obama's plans so far, but I don't think he's an evil man intentionally trying to destroy the US economy. BTW, Harry Truman wasn't very popular at the end of his term and look how he's regarded now.

Anyways, I didn't want to start a flame war about politics and I always entertain differing opinions, but I realize this isn't really the place. So this is the last I'll speak of it. We'll just have to agree to disagree. 🙂

 

[Sparda29]

You're educated, so I imagine you have some well formed opinions, but realize that's all they are ... opinions. Unless you think Bush is evil (ie he staged 9/11 in order to start a war or something of that magnitude) you cannot have any "reasons" that "destroy" the idea that Bush knows the difference between right and wrong. All you can do is disagree with his policies and give valid reasons (which I'm sure you have), but to question the man's morality seems a bit extremist to me.

Geeze, I disagree with Obama's plans so far, but I don't think he's an evil man intentionally trying to destroy the US economy. BTW, Harry Truman wasn't very popular at the end of his term and look how he's regarded now.

Anyways, I didn't want to start a flame war about politics and I always entertain differing opinions, but I realize this isn't really the place. So this is the last I'll speak of it. We'll just have to agree to disagree. 🙂

I guess they are opinions. This particular opinion basically means that I think that every single president since the 1940s had a skewed idea of right and wrong.

 

[Jdario86]

That isn't your choice to make.

Anyhow, that segment wasn't so much about the pharmacist as it was about the bystanders (who probably don't know much about the profession).

Agreed. Putting HIPPA violations aside, the main focus here is what would you do if you witness something unethical occurring. Take this aspect and apply it to a bigger picture, like politics. I think there's a parallel between this segment and current policies. During the last months of the bush administration, they passed a clause that allows health clinicians to exercise religious rights in a clinical setting and there was not a lot of lobbying done by doctors, pharmacists etc. to prevent this clause from being passed. Does that mean that we, as clinicians, agree with this clause? Or - Are we just going to let this pass and let someone else handle this? Is this theocracy or democracy?

Does the government have any right to tell a doctor or a pharmacist how to do their job?

If so, where do we draw the line?

 

[Vitamin K]

That's New Jersey though, what I heard from most pharmacists I've known and pharmacy professors is that in NY we can reject prescriptions for any reason we want, just like a restaurant can reject customers for any reason they want.

Sure you can. But you'd better have a d*mn good reason that you're refusing it because, when they take you to court for discrimination, "she looked like a skank" isn't going to save you.

 

[Praziquantel86]

I guess they are opinions. This particular opinion basically means that I think that every single president since the 1940s had a skewed idea of right and wrong.

Would you care to expand on this ridiculous statement in some manner?

 

[Quiksilver]

Agreed. Putting HIPPA violations aside, the main focus here is what would you do if you witness something unethical occurring. Take this aspect and apply it to a bigger picture, like politics. I think there's a parallel between this segment and current policies. During the last months of the bush administration, they passed a clause that allows health clinicians to exercise religious rights in a clinical setting and there was not a lot of lobbying done by doctors, pharmacists etc. to prevent this clause from being passed. Does that mean that we, as clinicians, agree with this clause? Or - Are we just going to let this pass and let someone else handle this? Is this theocracy or democracy?

Does the government have any right to tell a doctor or a pharmacist how to do their job?

If so, where do we draw the line?

For the record, its not HIPPA, its HIPAA

How does that clause hurt the treatment of people in a clinical setting? more in particular, how would it affect your conduct given a position? You don't have to change the way you practice if you don't want to. The AMA is one of the most potent lobbying groups in the nation, you bet your life there is lobbying going on. But why would they lobby against giving a practitioner more autonomy in the health care setting? It is fair that people want to be treated based on their religious views. Why can't treatment in certain situations have some basis on religious views, can't we as practitioners at least have that option? It may not at all be based on religion either; it may be ethical views that dictate treatment.

they are not at all telling you how to do your job. They provide religious freedom based on constitutional law. While I don't agree with refusing treatment and walking a way. You should at least provide guidance or pass the chart to someone who has a different view then yours. And thats where the difference is.

I cannot think of any examples where I personally would deny treatment, but at least there is at least a way for me to withdraw myself from doing something I view as unethical.

 

[67echo]

anybody watching the polgymist show tonight??? this show is so damn stupid, its unbelievable!

 

[Fuzzychickens]

Honestly,

It bothers me for a pharmacist to do what that little ABC scene displayed, but it pales in comparison to the Pope going to a country like Africa with all it's problems and telling the people there that condoms are not part of a solution to the AIDS problems.

 

[Bill_Brasky]

Honestly,

It bothers me for a pharmacist to do what that little ABC scene displayed, but it pales in comparison to the Pope going to a country like Africa with all it's problems and telling the people there that condoms are not part of a solution to the AIDS problems.

It is the Pope's job to speak in absolutes, since he believes his job is talking about moral truths handed down by God. It is what the job of Pope entails. In this case, what he is advocating would actually solve the AIDS crisis: absolute celibacy outside of monogamous marriage (there are already stipulations where it is allowed for a married couple to use condoms if only one of them has AIDS). You can disagree as to whether that is a good goal, or likely to be achieved, but putting up only the one part of his argument is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Carboxide]

Honestly,

It bothers me for a pharmacist to do what that little ABC scene displayed, but it pales in comparison to the Pope going to a country like Africa with all it's problems and telling the people there that condoms are not part of a solution to the AIDS problems.

Just FYI, Africa is a continent 🙂

 

[Fuzzychickens]

LOL, true.. it is a continent. When I hear about anything over there I tend to lump it all together - seriously, it's like every place is run by a dictator, has civil war, AIDS epidemic, and starving women and children.

 

[Fuzzychickens]

It is the Pope's job to speak in absolutes, since he believes his job is talking about moral truths handed down by God. It is what the job of Pope entails. In this case, what he is advocating would actually solve the AIDS crisis: absolute celibacy outside of monogamous marriage (there are already stipulations where it is allowed for a married couple to use condoms if only one of them has AIDS). You can disagree as to whether that is a good goal, or likely to be achieved, but putting up only the one part of his argument is intellectually dishonest.

Well, we know what the other part of his argument is and reality will time and time again prove it wrong. Notice the trend in America with teen pregnancy following Bush and his approach to the problem - again, reality says the argument is flawed based on human behaviour.

 

[Carboxide]

LOL, true.. it is a continent. When I hear about anything over there I tend to lump it all together - seriously, it's like every place is run by a dictator, has civil war, AIDS epidemic, and starving women and children.

True fact!

 

[meister]

I think I see HIPAA misspelled to HIPPA more than I see it spelled correctly. One time a professor had it misspelled on her powerpoint. Another time I walked into my pharmacy and another tech had misspelled it on a gigantic sign.

I don't understand what is so difficult about this particular acronym.

 

[Sparda29]

Would you care to expand on this ridiculous statement in some manner?

In one word, Israel. I do not believe that Israel is a legitimate country, and thus I think it is ridiculous that the US supports Israel financially, militarily, etc.

 

[Quiksilver]

In one word, Israel. I do not believe that Israel is a legitimate country, and thus I think it is ridiculous that the US supports Israel financially, militarily, etc.

are you serious? Do you also believe that the Holocaust never happened either? What is wrong with Israel as it stands anyways?

What is your example of a skewed sense of right from wrong of FDR?

Did you ever take a course in American History?

 

[Sparda29]

are you serious? Do you also believe that the Holocaust never happened either? What is wrong with Israel as it stands anyways?

What is your example of a skewed sense of right from wrong of FDR?

Did you ever take a course in American History?

I believe that the Holocaust happened, but that doesn't give anyone the right to go into Palestine and take their land and give it to someone else.

I should have said 1947, since FDR wasn't around when Israel was created.

 

[teri78]

In one word, Israel. I do not believe that Israel is a legitimate country, and thus I think it is ridiculous that the US supports Israel financially, militarily, etc.

Whoa! Thats a pretty bold statement from someone that still has a curfew. I think Mommy and Daddy are calling!

 

[fhx06]

I think I see HIPAA misspelled to HIPPA more than I see it spelled correctly. One time a professor had it misspelled on her powerpoint. Another time I walked into my pharmacy and another tech had misspelled it on a gigantic sign.

I don't understand what is so difficult about this particular acronym.

Hippo.

 

[Pharmacy Kid]

Notice the trend in America with teen pregnancy following Bush and his approach to the problem - again, reality says the argument is flawed based on human behaviour.

When you say trend, do you mean a decrease or increase? This graph shows that teen pregnancies decreased up to 2004 (Bush's first term). It was at an all time low in 2005 according to this article. I couldn't find any data for 2006-2008, but what I'm trying to say is that Bush did not increase nor decrease any trends.

I'm not a fan of Bush but I hate it when people blame one person for the economy and their problems. All problems are multifactorial, people are just to dumb to comprehend that.