Excellent point. You're right, we'd better just kill 'em off, since it's a well-documented fact that no human being in history has ever risen above a poor upbringing to make something of themselves.
You are correct. Many people have risen out of extreme unfortunate circumstances. Has anyone beat the $#!t out of you? Have you ever had to witness your parents using heroin? Have you ever seen little children running around naked in the streets while you know their parents are using drugs inside? While I don't see it as "let's just kill them off, (as a life should never be viewed as just this), I do see abortion as the lesser of two evils. I'll elaborate further, read on.
This scenario is so elaborately contrived it's not even worth discussing. Seriously, claiming a procedure like abortion belongs in medicine's armamentarium "because of all the profoundly ******ed indigent substance abusers (who, interestingly, don't take their medication) who need it"? I think describing that argument as "flimsy" would be too complimentary.
I don't really want to argue with you. So please leave out the sarcasm.
And, maybe in your world the above scenario doesn't seem realisitic. Unfortunately, for many people it is their truth and their reality.
The truth is, I am a woman. I worked in an abortion clinic. While I have always been pro-choice, by working there I truly gained a deeper understanding for this procedure. It's a little unfair to be judging so ferociously when it is impossible to know what it would feel like for a woman to make this decision.
It is really not a contrived story. The most compelling was a Native American woman. The Native Americans firmly denounce abortion. It is against their moral beliefs. This woman, about 34-37, was pregnant. She had 2 or 3 (I don't remember) children, one was a teenager and the other was about 10, like I said, I don't remember exact ages, but the littlest one was school age.
This woman had been in an abusive relationship for the past twenty years. Her husband beat her and put her in the hospital several times. She lived on the reservation, an extremely desolate place, and in a community that was so close knit could not leave and remain anonymous. She also did not have a formal education, and no real job skills. She stated that she remained in this relationship because she would feel guilty for not letting her children see their father, and that she had secured a living arrangement 1500 miles away with a girlfriend who was willing to help. She had plans to leave her children with her parents. Many abusers sense when their partners are gaining distance, and react by more threats and entrapment. Pregnancy is the perfect action. How would you handle this situation, aphistis? Really try to put yourself in this woman's shoes. Would you rather have unconsented sex, or be beat?
She got pregnant, and was now here in the abortion clinic. She felt that if she did not get an abortion she would be forced to remain in this relationship for many future years. What would your adivice be?
I could tell you about the twelve year old who didn't know what a vagina was. Or the lady with 5 kids, who said "I used to be the one protesting, and I never thought I would do this," and the stories go on.
I should add, that while it looks like an option for her to continue this pregnancy in this other place, have you ever had to raise a child without any resources. I'm guessing that you aphistis had a pretty good life. I'm not implying that it was perfect, but I'm guessing that you were never poor. I mean really dirt poor. I'm guessing your parent(s) were for the most part pretty good examples of how people should live. Am I right?
Of course not, and I'd be insulted at the question if you weren't being so tirelessly goading. If I thought you were even remotely interested in having a legitimate discussion instead of simply congratulating yourself out loud at your clearly superior philosophy & intellect, I might be bothered to respond.
I don't boast about a "superior philosophy & intellect." It's just that why is it that people who have never and will never have to make this choice, always have such strong opinions on it? How do you see yourself, as someone who has never been in women's shoes, qualified as nothing more then someone who has an opinon on what you
would do
if you were a woman? IIt's always the same thing, "If that was me I would do this," or "If I was her, I wouldn't do that." But, when the shoe is on the other foot, the scenario dramatically changes. It's like your eyes open up and you realize that the only reason you felt that way was because you never understood.
Everyone has opinons, and should be allowed to vocalize them. This really isn't sarcastic, because I really want to know, but where do you see your opinion in all of this? You don't have a uterus, and it seems like you have never had to deal with unwanted pregnancy, so without this, how do you think you can make a judgment call on someone who has? Again, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really want to know.
Or, alternately, it's about a human being's right to live. *Both* sides inject their philosophical biases into this controversy, along with virtually every other in existence--a fundamental, self-evident tenet of debate you might have realized yourself long ago, were you not so busy preening, instead of needing to have it pointed out to you like the dunce you so powerfully believe you're not.[/QUOTE]
Grow up.
I might add, that in the time I spent working in the abortion clinic I saw a lot of different kinds of women. Rich, poor, educated, uneducated, married, single, cheating, whatever. Abortion transcends all demographics. Clergy, mormons, catholics, doctors, lawyers, teachers, mothers, grandmothers, girlfriends, sisters, and the list goes on. I saw women who had crossed several state lines to remain anonymous. The truth is, that many women you may not have even thought, have had abortions. I've read something like half of all women in the US will have an abortion. It's a women's dirty little secret.
Many women say they regret their abortion. Regret usually isn't defined as the regret of the abortion, but rather regret that the pregnancy happened in the first place. They forget the sixteen year old girl they were skipping class to have an abortion. Their situations change, and so do their minds. But when, questioned further, they would still make the same choice they did. Because it was the best choice they could make given their circumstances.
Do you really know what a woman feels like after an abortion? Do you really know what it feels like, to make this decision and live with yourself and your dirty little secret?
