Abortion

BU Medical Sciences
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Do you believe in abortion

  • Yes

    Votes: 147 65.3%

  • No

    Votes: 78 34.7%
  • Total voters
    225
  • Poll closed .
I'm guessing you meant do I support the legal practice of abortion and a woman's right to choose whether she should have an abortion or not. And yes I do.
 
uh oh

controversial topic alert!
 
Of course a woman should be able to choose abortion if it is best for her situation.
 
Absolutely. The government cannot regulate a women's body. There is no possible law that can account for every possible medical, social, and ethical situation that could ever possibly arise.

I plan to go into Ob/Gyn. So will I perform abortions? I don't know. That is a decision that will be made slowly, over time, with much consideration and will likely be case dependent.
 
I in no way support it. When conception occurs, that bundle of cells is no longer part of the women, it is a distinct human, and thus I tend to sympathize with it. However, I have no interest in getting into that side of medicine, and would not condemn or yell at any patient that chose to go through with an abortion.
 
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This topic has great potential, especially for an interview question. "Hypothetically, if a patient (15 y/o) came to you requesting an abortion, would you perform the procedure and honor her request to not tell her parents?"

To me, abortion is case dependent.
 
I still do believe it could be case dependent (rape, danger to mother), but for the majority of cases my opinion is above.
 
For all those interested in reading some key philosophical arguments made from both sides of the abortion issue, I suggest reading the essays on abortion found in:
Ethics in Practice

Third Edition

Edited by: HUGH LAFOLLETTE (University of South Florida )

Series: Blackwell Philosophy Anthologies

 
I will hopefully try to practice with respect to my patients' beliefs. My own are secondary to whatever is best practice for a particular patient, and the constraints of law and standard of care at the time of course.
 
Track8001254 said:
I in no way support it. When conception occurs, that bundle of cells is no longer part of the women, it is a distinct human, and thus in my opinion she should not have a choice..
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth.
 
Bacchus said:
This topic has great potential, especially for an interview question. "Hypothetically, if a patient (15 y/o) came to you requesting an abortion, would you perform the procedure and honor her request to not tell her parents?"

To me, abortion is case dependent.
Click to expand...

You are so right. I definitely got hit with the underage abortion scenario in one of my interviews. Also an illegally transplanted organ case, which turned out a little weird.
 
I do believe it's a personal choice. That being said, I will never, ever perform one.
 
Never have approved of abortion, but in undergrad I took an Ethics and Personal Values philosophy course and that actually solidified my feelings even more!

The whole, "at what point does this fetus become a 'human' thing" baffles me... So no, I do not believe in abortion, conception= human... Abortion then equals some type of murder?

As sympathetic as I am to some of the situations where abortion would seem like a good option, I don't know how to justify it in an other way since I believe that conception is the start of life... Tricky question!
 
Track8001254 said:
When conception occurs, that bundle of cells is no longer part of the women, it is a distinct human, and thus in my opinion she should not have a choice.
Click to expand...
But the bundle of cells is part of the woman. I don't see how anyone could argue differently.
 
I personally will NEVER perform an abortion and do not "believe in them" for some of the said reasons and more.......however, I would never restrain a patient from obtaining one if they so desired....that's their moral situation, not mine....I will always do my best to give my patients access to ALL available options....doesnt mean that I have to personally be involved in the abortion process...
 
The answer choices are too simplistic for such a controversial topic. Personally, I believe that abortion is murder and would not perform one as a physician unless it was a life-threatening situation for the mother or if the child was a product of rape/incest and there was no other physician available. I also would never have one myself.

With that said, I still support Roe vs. Wade and a woman's right-to-choose because I realize the greater good for the "secular world" -- it is "better" that a child had never been born rather than suffer the effects of being unwanted -- abuse/neglect, increased risk of living a life in poverty, of crime, in prison, etc.

So am I a "yes" or "no"? 😕

On a side note, it boggles the mind that with all of the methods of contraception available that there is even a NEED for such a large number of abortions. 🙁
 
Haemulon said:
I definitely got hit with the underage abortion scenario in one of my interviews.
Click to expand...
Is the best answer that you would do whatever the law dictates?
 
This argument could and will go on forever. I can see both points, but still think one way. Again though, while not believing in it, I would never stop, criticize, or involve my self in such a discussion. If it is legal, it is their choice whether I agree or not.
 
Track8001254 said:
I in no way support it. When conception occurs, that bundle of cells is no longer part of the women, it is a distinct human, and thus in my opinion she should not have a choice. However, I have no interest in getting into that side of medicine, and would not condemn or yell at any patient that chose to go through with an abortion.
Click to expand...

"that bundle of cells is no longer a part of the woman"
- nor can it exist for long independent from the woman

"it is a distinct human"
-hmmm, what about if it splits, then what we thought was one human actually would have turned out to be several?
-What about abnormal development, perhaps leading to teratoma or some other outcome?
- what if it implants ectopically?

so many scenarios and possibilities ....
 
Katatonic said:
I'm guessing you meant do I support the legal practice of abortion and a woman's right to choose whether she should have an abortion or not. And yes I do.
Click to expand...
My stand as well.
 
2738152749_5717eddf43_m.jpg


I see this thread going very bad place. It's one thing to have a conversation about this sort of thing face to face, but an anonymous internet forum does not exactly foster reasonable, respectful discussions about faith-based topics. Keeping myself out of it for my own sanity.
 
Track8001254 said:
I in no way support it. When conception occurs, that bundle of cells is no longer part of the women, it is a distinct human, and thus I tend to sympathize with it. However, I have no interest in getting into that side of medicine, and would not condemn or yell at any patient that chose to go through with an abortion.
Click to expand...

This is why its really hard for me to support abortion, as I too believe that these are too separate individuals. However, I also strongly believe that one should be able to do and believe as he or she pleases as long as there is no harm done to another individual. Which again makes it very hard for me to have a firm position on abortion. I cannot see myself denying someone an abortion because of what I think of it, but it would be difficult for me to perform one myself. For the most part, I think this is very case dependent.

Should a Siamese twin be able to kill the other twin because its "part of his or her body." I doubt most would support that, but when you get down to it its all the same reasoning.
 
MsKrispyKreme said:
With that said, I still support Roe vs. Wade and a woman's right-to-choose because I realize the greater good for the "secular world" -- it is "better" that a child had never been born rather than suffer the effects of being unwanted -- abuse/neglect, increased risk of living a life in poverty, of crime, in prison, etc.

So am I a "yes" or "no"? 😕

On a side note, it boggles the mind that with all of the methods of contraception available that there is even a NEED for such a large number of abortions. 🙁
Click to expand...

The only problem I have with the bolded statement is that you are deciding someone elses worth on life...namely, the fetus....I personally feel that no one has a right to decide someone elses claim to life even if you are doing so b/c you think you are doing that person a favor....that same mentality doesnt work for kids/adults so I dont think it should work for fetuses

just my opinion...i realize this is very complex and probably no two of us will see it exactly the same way
 
Haemulon said:
"that bundle of cells is no longer a part of the woman"
- nor can it exist for long independent from the woman

"it is a distinct human"
-hmmm, what about if it splits, then what we thought was one human actually would have turned out to be several?
-What about abnormal development, perhaps leading to teratoma or some other outcome?
- what if it implants ectopically?

so many scenarios and possibilities ....
Click to expand...

True on both parts, however it is distinct genetically (regardless if it splits) And a teratoma is not fertilized, so this isnt really included. And could a new born last long independent from a care taker?
 
Haemulon said:
"that bundle of cells is no longer a part of the woman"
- nor can it exist for long independent from the woman
Click to expand...

The same could be said for a newborn. Without another human beings help its as good as dead.
 
Just the other day when I was thinking of this complex and multi-faceted issue, I thought "Why doesn't someone start a two choice internet poll so we can finally resolve this dispute once and for all?"

Thank you, from all of us. 👍
 
MsKrispyKreme said:
The answer choices are too simplistic for such a controversial topic. Personally, I believe that abortion is murder and would not perform one as a physician unless it was a life-threatening situation for the mother or if the child was a product of rape/incest and there was no other physician available. I also would never have one myself.
Click to expand...

See, this argument has never made sense to me in the least.

If you believe it to be murder, why does the act of how it was conceived play any part in this decision? Are we going to blame the wholly innocent baby for the sins of the father? It, after all, has done nothing to deserve being murdered. You wouldn't kill the children of a murderer simply because they were his kids.

Either you believe the baby is alive at conception or you do not. If you do, you cannot morally justify abortion for any reason. If you do not, and I reckon you don't based on this alone, then you can create these exceptions. But then, of course, the question becomes why you would require exceptions in the first place if it isn't alive.
 
So let's make this question more pointed.

A 15 year old rape victim discovers she is pregnant. Worse yet, it's an ectopic pregnancy. The fetus is developing in the fallopian tube instead of the uterus. As the fetus grows, the tube will be unable to stretch to accomodate the growing baby. 99% of these cases will end up with a tubal rupture, which is fatal for both the mother and the baby. However, as with any situation, the there is always a tiny, improbable chance that the fetus could survive.

You are this girls doctor. The fetus is currently viable. Do you do the abortion? You would be killing a "baby" that theoretically has a small chance at surviving.

If you do the abortion, the 15 year old girl will survive, and although she would lose one tube, her fertility would be retained.

If you don't do the abortion, most likely the mother and baby will both die.

What do you do? How do you make a law that outlaws abortion in this senario? Finally, if the 15 year old girl has the abortion, and abortion is outlawed and classified as murder, how much time in prison should she and her doctor (you) be sentenced to?
 
MsKrispyKreme said:
On a side note, it boggles the mind that with all of the methods of contraception available that there is even a NEED for such a large number of abortions. 🙁
Click to expand...

It's because some women see abortion as birth control, sadly...
 
If I ever become a physician, I expect that whether a properly informed patient decides for or against abortion will be of little or no professional concern to me.

What, precisely, qualifies or does not qualify as life is a complicated issue wherein there can't really be a definite answer in the foreseeable future. Thinking pragmatically, then, it seems to me that it's the patient who has the right to decide. No matter what the story inside of her body is, well, the story is still inside of her body. My biggest personal moral qualm with the abortion question is the idea of taking that right away from her.

We should all work to respect the religious and moral beliefs of others. However, a lot of these issues can get more complicated for physicians. I think that's where I stand. I'm very interested in where everyone else stands.


Edit: To fully answer the question....
From a legal perspective, I support the right to abortion.
 
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Track8001254 said:
True on both parts, however it is distinct genetically (regardless if it splits) And a teratoma is not fertilized, so this isnt really included. And could a new born last long independent from a care taker?
Click to expand...

True. But cancer can be distinct genetically as well. Twins and clones would be identical, yet considered separate individuals. Just saying that genetic variation in and of itsself doesn't really imply anything. Some other vertebrate species develope parthenogenetically, and so require no fertilization (not humans, but life is life regardless) and so the fertilization requirement is not universally applicable.

There are other ways that development can proceed from a zygote in dangerous and/or neoplastic manner, even though a teratoma may not have been formed from fertilzed ovum.

I concede the point about the newborn, with the caveat that at least newborns are not physically connected and dependent on the mother's (host's) own physiology for existance. Much like a parasite really.
 
Okay but to the people who "believe" in abortion, do you also believe in using aborted fetus for its stem cell for research purposes if the mother gives consent? Afterall, the cell would just be going to waste by that definition.
 
Nomdeplume said:
If I ever become a physician, I expect that whether a properly informed patient decides for or against abortion will be of little or no professional concern to me.

What, precisely, qualifies or does not qualify as life is a complicated issue wherein there can't really be a definite answer in the foreseeable future. Thinking pragmatically, then, it seems to me that it's the patient who has the right to decide. No matter what the story inside of her body is, well, the story is still inside of her body. My biggest personal moral qualm with the abortion question is the idea of taking that right away from her.

We should all work to respect the religious and moral beliefs of others. However, a lot of these issues can get more complicated for physicians. I think that's where I stand. I'm very interested in where everyone else stands.


Edit: To fully answer the question....
From a legal perspective, I support the right to abortion.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I whole-heartedly agree with this.

I only like to add counterpoints to argument in order to try and demonstrate that an issue like this tends to be more complicated than some realise.
 
EpiPEN said:
Okay but to the people who "believe" in abortion, do you also believe in using aborted fetus for its stem cell for research purposes if the mother gives consent? Afterall, the cell would just be going to waste by that definition.
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
This is such a complicated issue, that we're not going to be able to put ourselves in the situation of someone seeking an abortion unless we have actually been in that situation.

Personally, I believe it's the wrong decision... but it's one that should be left for the woman to make personally. The consequences of which should be left between her and any higher power you believe in.

Outlawing it might decrease it's frequency, but it won't stop it from happening. Those that do seek it out will find themselves not in the hands of medical professionals but someone much less qualified and much more likely to put her in danger. So, while I believe it is the wrong moral choice for a woman to make, it should be a choice available to her.
 
SarsMO said:
It's because some women see abortion as birth control, sadly...
Click to expand...
that's the real reason I have a problem with abortion. I would support abortion in just about any case other than "well, I can't have sex responsibly, so I'm going to have an abortion"
 
Begaster said:
See, this argument has never made sense to me in the least.

If you believe it to be murder, why does the act of how it was conceived play any part in this decision? Are we going to blame the wholly innocent baby for the sins of the father? It, after all, has done nothing to deserve being murdered. You wouldn't kill the children of a murderer simply because they were his kids.

Either you believe the baby is alive at conception or you do not. If you do, you cannot morally justify abortion for any reason. If you do not, and I reckon you don't based on this alone, then you can create these exceptions. But then, of course, the question becomes why you would require exceptions in the first place if it isn't alive.
Click to expand...

🙄

I believe it is alive, wholeheartedly. My opinions and my beliefs are not mutually exclusive...nor does my religion indicate that I should have codes of behavior that are not flexible or inconsistent with SOME values of the secular world's. “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”. (Matthew 22:21)

Let me tell you a story. One day this mentally ill kid was recklessly throwing darts everywhere, and my 2-year old nephew and I were walking by his house when one came at his face. I threw myself over him, and the dart got stuck in my arm. This left a scar. My religion forbids body mutiliation, but do you think God cared in that situation? :laugh: What if it had hit my jugular instead, and I died? Technically that's suicide, right? Do you think I would've gone to hell? :scared:

I look for the greater good. The dead child is in Heaven which is a much better place than being raped by their mom's new boyfriend and committing suicide at age 15. (Yes, I'm talking about an actual case.) I've spent the majority of volunteer time since high school working with unwanted children. It's not pretty...

Does it make murder right? No. Does it make it understandable? Yes
 
EpiPEN said:
Okay but to the people who "believe" in abortion, do you also believe in using aborted fetus for its stem cell for research purposes if the mother gives consent? Afterall, the cell would just be going to waste by that definition.
Click to expand...

Yes.

Using stem cells from a dead fetus = "organ transplantation" in my mind
 
Yeh, it is tragic when abortions happen ... any time really, but particularly when for frivalous reasons. However, I just don't feel like I am wise enough to claim absolute knowledge about the biological and moral nature of life and reproduction. Best I can do is make my own moral decisions for myself, and leave the controversial moral decisions of others for them to wrestle with on their own. When things are so grey like this, it really has to be highly personal. As a physician, I hope to be respectfull of many perspectives, particularly involving such a delicate issue as this, and serve my patients in the best way I can.
 
Nomdeplume said:
If I ever become a physician, I expect that whether a properly informed patient decides for or against abortion will be of little or no professional concern to me.
Click to expand...

Thats a good point, but when did physicians start listening to what patients think is best for them? Especially in todays world with so many "Hey I saw this drug on a late night infomercial and think I should try it" type patients. We still have to realize that WE are going to be the physicians and not the patient, therefore our opinions often times carry alot more weight than even the patients' themselves.
 
Haemulon said:
True. But cancer can be distinct genetically as well. Twins and clones would be identical, yet considered separate individuals. Just saying that genetic variation in and of itsself doesn't really imply anything. Some other vertebrate species develope parthenogenetically, and so require no fertilization (not humans, but life is life regardless) and so the fertilization requirement is not universally applicable.

There are other ways that development can proceed from a zygote in dangerous and/or neoplastic manner, even though a teratoma may not have been formed from fertilzed ovum.

I concede the point about the newborn, with the caveat that at least newborns are not physically connected and dependent on the mother's (host's) own physiology for existance. Much like a parasite really.
Click to expand...

I will give you the fact that fertilization is not universally applicable to life on a definition scale. But on a human scale it is, and the morals applied to humans are not the same applied to parthenogenic whiptail lizards. Also a zygote which is fertilized can develop in a dangerous way. You could say spina bifida or down syndrome are dangerous developmental disorders. Should these children have less of a shot at life? And a parasite, while I am sure some women during a pregnancy think this haha, Im not going there.

I would just like to add that this is a fuitfull discussion, and good practice for interview season
 
I feel like that poll doesn't give enough options. No, I don't believe in abortion, but yes, I think all women should make that decision for themselves. My beliefs shouldn't stop anyone else from doing what she think is right for herself.
 
MsKrispyKreme said:
Yes.

Using stem cells from a dead fetus = "organ transplantation" in my mind
Click to expand...

so you would perform the procedures involved in this, but not the abortion itself?
 
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