About Research and Publication

[bonoz]

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I have a situation I need advice on. I started doing research with my professor 2 years ago. It wasn't anything official - I just sort of started helping him out with one of the projects he was working on. To be frank, in the 2 years I spent with him I did not exactly moved the project too forward, but I did do A LOT of experiments, testing, fabrication, and a lot of good research. I put hours after hours but sometimes with research things take a while. What ended up happening was I got a full-time job else where and started doing this research thing on a part-time basis. I wasn't spending enough time to do a lot of work. So my PI hired another student to sort of take over from me. She's done a really good job and has pretty much taken over where I left off and has had better success than me. My question is that, can I expect to get my name included if this ever becomes a publication since I invested a lot of time and effort in this research. And honestly, were it not for my breadth of research and background work, the new student would not have been able to pick it up as easily. Should I speak to my PI about this because we never spoke about this before since it was sort of an unofficial thing. What should I discuss with him?

Thanks

 

[mtbtx]

I have a situation I need advice on. I started doing research with my professor 2 years ago. It wasn't anything official - I just sort of started helping him out with one of the projects he was working on. To be frank, in the 2 years I spent with him I did not exactly moved the project too forward, but I did do A LOT of experiments, testing, fabrication, and a lot of good research. I put hours after hours but sometimes with research things take a while. What ended up happening was I got a full-time job else where and started doing this research thing on a part-time basis. I wasn't spending enough time to do a lot of work. So my PI hired another student to sort of take over from me. She's done a really good job and has pretty much taken over where I left off and has had better success than me. My question is that, can I expect to get my name included if this ever becomes a publication since I invested a lot of time and effort in this research. And honestly, were it not for my breadth of research and background work, the new student would not have been able to pick it up as easily. Should I speak to my PI about this because we never spoke about this before since it was sort of an unofficial thing. What should I discuss with him?

Thanks

I don't think it would hurt to ask. Generally speaking though, undergrad workers or volunteers doing the "dirty work" don't get their names on anything, and if they do it's the last name listed. I didn't move up in the chain of command until I started my thesis.

 

[Dookie2010]

I have a situation I need advice on. I started doing research with my professor 2 years ago. It wasn't anything official - I just sort of started helping him out with one of the projects he was working on. To be frank, in the 2 years I spent with him I did not exactly moved the project too forward, but I did do A LOT of experiments, testing, fabrication, and a lot of good research. I put hours after hours but sometimes with research things take a while. What ended up happening was I got a full-time job else where and started doing this research thing on a part-time basis. I wasn't spending enough time to do a lot of work. So my PI hired another student to sort of take over from me. She's done a really good job and has pretty much taken over where I left off and has had better success than me. My question is that, can I expect to get my name included if this ever becomes a publication since I invested a lot of time and effort in this research. And honestly, were it not for my breadth of research and background work, the new student would not have been able to pick it up as easily. Should I speak to my PI about this because we never spoke about this before since it was sort of an unofficial thing. What should I discuss with him?

Thanks

I think it depends a lot on your actual role in the lab. If all you did was data collection, no matter how hard you worked, your PI doesn't necessarily have to include you on any publications. If, however, you made some kind of intellectual contribution to the paper (i.e. coming up with a novel way to run one of the experiments, performing the background lit review and contributing to the design of the methods, etc.), then yes your name should definitely be included.

Your post is a little confusing because in the beginning you seem to indicate that despite working hard for him for two years, the experiment didn't really move that far forward - that leads me to believe you just did data collection/grunt work and your name on any publication would only be through the generosity of the PI. However, you later go on to say that your background work is why the new student is doing well - this makes me think you may have actually been intellectually involved in some aspect of the experiment and you deserve acknowledgment. Figure out which of these categories you fall into, but have a conversation with the PI regardless. It will be important for a lot of things (apps, CV) to know whether your name will be attached to any future publications.

 

[Frazier]

I don't think it would hurt to ask. Generally speaking though, undergrad workers or volunteers doing the "dirty work" don't get their names on anything, and if they do it's the last name listed. I didn't move up in the chain of command until I started my thesis.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

I don't think it would hurt to ask. Generally speaking though, undergrad workers or volunteers doing the "dirty work" don't get their names on anything, and if they do it's the last name listed. I didn't move up in the chain of command until I started my thesis.

Haha....no.

Last name is the PI = the senior scientist in the lab. The academic muscle.

You know, the guy whose reputation would be ruined if the study is ****.


To the OP, if you did data collection, your name shouldn't be on the paper. Technically, you do have to make an intellectual contribution to the study in terms of design, troubleshooting, etc.

Some labs do violate this rule and put people on there that shouldn't be, and I know it sucks to be one of those. You can certainly bring it up, but your lab might (correctly of course) stick to the rules. Mine did as well, and it was the right thing to do.

However, here is what you can do - ask if you can present a poster on it! Many times, the PI will allow you to write up a poster and present it at a local (your school's) or a regional, or maybe even national meetings. That's something you can do, and you can get your name out there.

 

[laitmanvet]

Yeah, PI = last name on the paper.
In my experience, which is pretty extensive in academia research, if you make a figure for a paper you get to be on that paper. So, you set up the experiment, completed the whole thing, did any necessary troubleshooting, analysis, etc and it actually ended up in the paper then you get recognition for it. You didn't necessarily have to be the brains behind it, just the person who actually did it. Sometimes if you did a lot of work you can get an acknowledgement at the end...which doesn't mean much in terms of a resume-booster.

I would talk to your PI. It can't hurt and most of the people I know prefer me to be up front and honest about what the "rules" are and what they expect for an authorship.

 

[Dookie2010]

Haha....no.

Last name is the PI = the senior scientist in the lab. The academic muscle.

I think you might have misunderstood the OP. I think he meant his name would be the last one listed in terms of first author, second author, etc. Not that his last name would be the one associated with the paper. Really hope not anyway...

 

[rhesuspieces]

Like other people have said, what you actually did matters.

If, say, you were collecting data for a research project that was your original idea (NOT an idea that your PI gave you to work on) then you certainly deserve some credit if not first authorship since the other undergrad basically breezed in and put the whipped cream and cherry on top of your data sundae.

If you were banging your head against the wall trying to get decent data, then the new UG arrived and changed the methodology, resulting in a successful study, you might still merit second or third authorship if you contributed significantly intellectually.

If you started doing grunt work on a project that your PI assigned you, then had to leave before you finished it up, you really don't have any authorship rights. If time and effort alone merited authorship, we'd all have publications to our names. You'll have to rely on the kindness of your PI and the first author to nab a mention.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

I think you might have misunderstood the OP. I think he meant his name would be the last one listed in terms of first author, second author, etc. Not that his last name would be the one associated with the paper. Really hope not anyway...

No, I mean the last name on a paper is generally the senior scientist in the lab. The first author is the one who designed/implemented it under the direction of the PI (who'll be the last name).

So, as an example, in this paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19515967

de Groat would be the PI - the one in charge of the lab where this was done, and the mentor who oversaw the project. Kullman (the first author) would likely be the post-doc or the grad student who came up with ideas and designed/carried out the project. The rest of the names would be others who made intellectual contributions to the project.

 

[goldnuts13]

If a figure in the paper couldnt have been created without work that youve done you should get on the paper.

I forgot who told this to me but it seemed like a pretty good rule to me.

 

[bonoz]

Thanks guys. Looks like I'll just have to speak with him.

Just to alleviate some confusion, the idea was my professor's but the methodology was something I worked hard on. That involved doing research into the past on how other people have done similar things, and experimenting with new techniques and tools that even my PI did not know about. It was more than just doing data collection. Yes data collection was part of it, but I first had to design, test, and perfect certain instrumentation before I was able to collect data. I did get to do a poster once as well.

The point is that despite that work I did, I was not able to reach that goal I had. Then this new student comes about, she does one thing, and everything falls into place. It feels like I did all the foundation and she got the cherry on the top. I'm not begrudging or anything. I'm just wondering if I would be eligible for some credit once the paper gets published.

 

[kami333]

It's going to depend on your PI, but it sounds deserving of authorship.
If the new undergrad is going to be first author, it wouldn't be a stretch to say you deserve co-first.