Abuse from Surgery Intern

[emergentmd]

Every other attending I've ever worked with, community or academic, has checked their phone or email for personal reasons briefly. 1-2 minutes. I've also seen it in pretty much every field regardless, including outside of medicine. It's not a big deal.

You do know I don't mean checking it now and then right? Was I not clear when I said they are on it constantly while I chart. And NO.... if you are working and trying to learn then learn. Dont Text. And this is why the new generation don't get it

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[12glaucoma34]

Sorry for the confusion: this is a surgery resident/PGY-3, all my interns have been good.

He asked me why I was interested in surgery and that he was considering an elective week off for personal study basically trying to get rid of me, and basically told me that I was performing significantly worse than my two peers which again is uncalled for true or not.

I struggle on presentations and the 4th year above him is super nice to me and takes her time to correct my mistakes and actually waits until I'm done presenting as is the attending who is the only one evaluating me thankfully.

First, breath a sigh of relief the attending is not being this obnoxious (and is evaluating you). That means you just need to get through the ignorant rotation. It is hard to truly understand your situation, but you may need to get a little tougher. Talk to the nice 4th year above the malignant resident and ask for suggestions on how to do better and especially talk to the attending about the situation and any suggestions for improvement.

I hope the malignant resident who informed you that you were performing significantly worse than your peers gave you some suggestions, resources, and a rough plan of what you can do to improve. If not, that is pretty crumby. Tell the attending you feel like you aren't doing well and want to improve, but just have no idea what to do.

I had a similar situation on a non-surgery rotation where my attending physician was becoming visibly agitated/frustrated because I wasn't doing things the "correct way." On the third day I said, "Dr. XXXXX, I'm trying my best to do well on this rotation, but I haven't been exposed to this field before and have no idea what exactly you want me to do. Could you point me in the right direction?" I finished the week a little shaky, spent most of the weekend studying how to correct my deficits, and then the rotation took a 180 degree turn. Not only did I honor the rotation, but I got honors in every category on my evaluation.

Moral of the story: much and hopefully all of the evaluation will depend more on how you finish the rotation than how you start it. FINISH STRONG!!!

 

[sliceofbread136]

I am sure you are a med student and that is why I stopped working with them.
I work in the ER, I chart throughout seeing patient. I see a pt, if not too busy I chart. I then see another pt or talk to the student. But if I am sitting down for 10-15 min to do a few chart, then you can ACT interested or read something medical, or go look at the XRay on the pts we saw. Don't text constantly and surf your FACEBOOK.

So if you look uninterested then don't complain when you get a bad evaluation.

Asking for lunch can be alittle reasonable if its 4pm and we haven't eaten. If I haven't eaten, then what makes you med student so special that you need to leave and eat? Its busy, we are late for lunch, its a GREAT chance to learn. But don't ask every day you are working with me. If food means so much, BRING a snack. Bring Nuts, a protein bar. You dont need an hr break to rest.

This is the mentality of med students who think that life has to revolve around them. Good luck and avoid all specialties that actually require some toughness.

Nope I'm an intern. If I was forced to shadow some guy and he was silently charting I would probably be on my phone. And if I didn't know when I was supposed to get lunch I would probably ask. Have you ever tried saying to a medical student "we'll get lunch when there is a chance"? Maybe with that little bit of communication this whole situation would be completely avoided. Sometimes in life you really need to stop and think that maybe the problem doesn't lie with everyone else and that maybe part of the problem lies with you. Just a thought.

To be honest based on your posts I'm 99% sure the problem isn't with this generation of medical students and is mostly due to you being overall very crabby

 

[sliceofbread136]

Every other attending I've ever worked with, community or academic, has checked their phone or email for personal reasons briefly. 1-2 minutes. I've also seen it in pretty much every field regardless, including outside of medicine. It's not a big deal.

I check my phone and pager literally all the time. I long ago made the conscious decision to not walk on egg shells and just run the risk of upsetting fragile egos

 

[jw3600]

I check my phone and pager literally all the time. I long ago made the conscious decision to not walk on egg shells and just run the risk of upsetting fragile egos

Right haha. The generation that claims everyone else is too soft is upset about the gall of some med student checking their phone! On a shift! WHILE THEY'RE CHARTING?!

 

[mehc012]

I just ask, at some point on my first day, if it's OK to do flashcards on my phone when there's downtime. They usually respond like that's the dumbest question in the world, and it probably is...but they also all know from the start that I'm probably studying when I'm flipping through my phone, not looking up Kim Kardashian's latest scandal or whatever.

 

[Crayola227]

there's some God complex involved for those in surgery, for sure

all docs have one to some extent or another though

 

[Domperidone]

How did we get to phones and downtime.
(what is downtime?)

But erm, to answer this one:

I just ask, at some point on my first day, if it's OK to do flashcards on my phone when there's downtime. They usually respond like that's the dumbest question in the world, and it probably is...but they also all know from the start that I'm probably studying when I'm flipping through my phone, not looking up Kim Kardashian's latest scandal or whatever.

Err on the side of caution as a student.
Use the phone when no one's around to see you, should you have down time. For anything.
(However, some of the tech savvier or younger attendings and residents will actually tell you occasionally if you don't know the answer, look it up on your phone and then talk to them about what you were able to read up on)

For the other moments in between, try to look like you're interested. pay a bit of attention. Or carry physical notes/cards (not too many) in a scrub pocket, relevant to whatever service you happen to be on. Just don't over do it.

 

[mehc012]

How did we get to phones and downtime.
(what is downtime?)

But erm, to answer this one:



Err on the side of caution as a student.
Use the phone when no one's around to see you, should you have down time. For anything.
(However, some of the tech savvier or younger attendings and residents will actually tell you occasionally if you don't know the answer, look it up on your phone and then talk to them about what you were able to read up on)

For the other moments in between, try to look like you're interested. pay a bit of attention. Or carry physical notes/cards (not too many) in a scrub pocket, relevant to whatever service you happen to be on. Just don't over do it.

I am zero percent worried about the bolded. I have never been even remotely accused of looking bored or inattentive in the hospital. Not a fan of physical cards or notes; either there will be too few to be worth studying, or they'll be too dense/poorly organized to be worth it, if they fit in a pocket. I've never had an issue with the phone thing, largely because I err on the side of caution and ask first. But then, I also pick who I ask with some level of care. There are people who will respond as if it's a dumb question because it's a "duh, of course you should study" and then there are people not worth bothering to ask. Not much in between, in my book.

 

[Domperidone]

I am zero percent worried about the bolded. I have never been even remotely accused of looking bored or inattentive in the hospital. Not a fan of physical cards or notes; either there will be too few to be worth studying, or they'll be too dense/poorly organized to be worth it, if they fit in a pocket. I've never had an issue with the phone thing, largely because I err on the side of caution and ask first. But then, I also pick who I ask with some level of care. There are people who will respond as if it's a dumb question because it's a "duh, of course you should study" and then there are people not worth bothering to ask. Not much in between, in my book.

lol
okay.
I have no idea why I answered then.
Also, I wouldn't know what you are *like in real life or how you look. I can't see you through my computer monitor. I just tried to be helpful, but if you think it's working out for you, then great.
Forget anything I said.

Aaaand I'm out

 

[Domperidone]

Oh wait. nvm.
I thought you were asking a question of the forum.
But what you meant was that you ask the team on the first day. Whoops.

In that case lol
really forget I said anything.

 

[mehc012]

lol
okay.
I have no idea why I answered then.
Also, I wouldn't know what you are *like in real life or how you look. I can't see you through my computer monitor. I just tried to be helpful, but if you think it's working out for you, then great.
Forget anything I said.

Aaaand I'm out

No, sorry, didn't mean to be an @$$, and I'm sorry if I was one. I appreciate the advice, just trying to explain why I still stick with phone studying despite the risk and that I'm aware of it and take other measures. I meant that more as "I agree that students should err on the side of caution, I just tend to be cautious in a different manner because it works better for me" but instead I guess I came off as abrasive. Truly sorry and I do appreciate the helpful advice.

 

[Domperidone]

No, sorry, didn't mean to be an @$$, and I'm sorry if I was one. I appreciate the advice, just trying to explain why I still stick with phone studying despite the risk and that I'm aware of it and take other measures. I meant that more as "I agree that students should err on the side of caution, I just tend to be cautious in a different manner because it works better for me" but instead I guess I came off as abrasive. Truly sorry and I do appreciate the helpful advice.

oh lol, it's totally fine. I just feel embarrassed about offering unsolicited advice right now.

It's only a risk if you're whipping out the phone with teams you don't know yet - and have yet gauge whether they're old school or not. But if you're able to navigate the fine lines, I agree about not worrying (despite what others are posting in the thread). Most people have smart phones and either then no one's really going to care or they appreciate that you're trying.

 

[FutureOncSurgeon]

Alright! Thanks everyone..

 

[tiedyeddog]

A chance to cut is a chance to heal/cure.

Or, alternatively, a chance to cut is a chance to operate on that same person when a complication arises.

 

[tiedyeddog]

As others have said you really should not go into surgery.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I am zero percent worried about the bolded. I have never been even remotely accused of looking bored or inattentive in the hospital. Not a fan of physical cards or notes; either there will be too few to be worth studying, or they'll be too dense/poorly organized to be worth it, if they fit in a pocket. I've never had an issue with the phone thing, largely because I err on the side of caution and ask first. But then, I also pick who I ask with some level of care. There are people who will respond as if it's a dumb question because it's a "duh, of course you should study" and then there are people not worth bothering to ask. Not much in between, in my book.

A perk of being an intern is that as long as you get your work done no one really cares about this bull crap anymore. I can "appear disinterested" all I want. Really being an intern is about 10,000x better in every way than being a Med student

 

[sliceofbread136]

Right haha. The generation that claims everyone else is too soft is upset about the gall of some med student checking their phone! On a shift! WHILE THEY'RE CHARTING?!

You're completely right, it's pretty hypocritical

 

[flasheroonie]

I think that nothing in the OP's post is out of the ordinary, especially for surgery rotations in med school. That's unfortunately what surgery is like, no matter where you go.

As for the concerns about looking things up on the phone, I cherish my UpToDate and ePocrates subscriptions. However, during med school, using a phone during rounds was a terrible no-no and I'd actually carried around my (at that time it was a green book, but now I think it's purple) Washington Manual in my short white-coat pocket so nobody could say I wasn't looking up medical information.

 

[failedatlife]

Yep. And step2 doesn't care about your feelings

OP, listen to this comment. Nothing from here on out cares about your feelings. Step 1 did not care about your feelings, Step 2 will not care about your feelings, and tests you take as a resident will not either. From an academic perspective we are all but inanimate objects with numbers attached to ourselves. Program directors will view you as a three digit number.

Also, residents get shat on every day. They need some one to shat on in return. As a medical student you are prime meat.

 

[cbrons]

A perk of being an intern is that as long as you get your work done no one really cares about this bull crap anymore. I can "appear disinterested" all I want. Really being an intern is about 10,000x better in every way than being a Med student

This is true.

 

[sammiesings]

You do know I don't mean checking it now and then right? Was I not clear when I said they are on it constantly while I chart. And NO.... if you are working and trying to learn then learn. Dont Text. And this is why the new generation don't get it

This "new generation" thing is so tired. There were crappy med students when you were in school too. There are good ones now who value their education and can go without lunch at noon too. Relax.

 

[Twomonty17]

A lot of normalizing behavior in here which isn't surprising. If a student is just watching you chart that's a huge waste of time. Why should they have to wait until you get your stuff done? They're not paid, they're paying to be there.

 

[jw3600]

A lot of normalizing behavior in here which isn't surprising. If a student is just watching you chart that's a huge waste of time. Why should they have to wait until you get your stuff done? They're not paid, they're paying to be there.

I mean. I am a realistic person. I know there are times where I'll have to just sit there for a few minutes while someone charts or talks to a consult or whatever. I'm not even remotely upset about that. It's not big deal. Sometimes I'll watch them chart or try and listen to pick up some pointers. But if I happen to shoot off a text or reply to a school/work related email, who gives a flying ****.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

I mean. I am a realistic person. I know there are times where I'll have to just sit there for a few minutes while someone charts or talks to a consult or whatever. I'm not even remotely upset about that. It's not big deal. Sometimes I'll watch them chart or try and listen to pick up some pointers. But if I happen to shoot off a text or reply to a school/work related email, who gives a flying ****.

I certainly don't give a ****. I still remember when I was in a med student's shoes; if I was on my phone, it was because I was looking something medically related up.

Even then, I give my students the benefit of the doubt unless they're egregiously being stupid.

 

[pupsnacks]

.

 

[grapefruit17]

Damn based on these responses I'm a pretty good resident to work with lol. I make them go eat if it's past 12 and I know I'm skipping lunch. And usually make them leave by 5 absolute latest.

Their life will plenty suck when they're in residency, for now I have a little empathy

 

[grapefruit17]

Also as a resident you shouldn't talk about other med students to their classmates, it's tacky imo.

 

[libertyyne]

this is a gross generalization, but one should always avoid being #4.

 

[pupsnacks]

.

 

[mehc012]

Also, just from experience, if you are asking questions a few weeks into the rotation, then it may seem to others that you aren't resourceful. Better to not ask everyone your questions and keep them to yourself and find the answers yourself afterwards. Show up 10 minutes early to sit around and talk to everyone, especially your peers, if you had study groups with them then my guess is you probably wouldn't be nagging anyone.

God, I hope they don't think that way on my rotations. The day I run out of questions is the day I enroll in a nursing home. I will never not have something I want to know. Granted, you have to have some tact and social ability as far as when to ask them and of who, but still...

 

[pupsnacks]

.

 

[mehc012]

IDK maybe I'm wrong. When I was on clinicals for a way less stressful occupation, I learned to not annoy my superiors. Just have tact and be resourceful. IMO. Jeez.

Didn't say you were wrong, and I totally agree on the tact thing. Just said that I hoped it wasn't as dire as all that, because I ask a lot of questions!

 

[Merely]

Can someone explain what they mean when they say know the indications for appendectomy...isn't the answer appendicitis? Or am I being stupid...?

 

[mehc012]

Can someone explain what they mean when they say know the indications for appendectomy...isn't the answer appendicitis? Or am I being stupid...?

And how would you determine that it's appendicitis?

 

[Merely]

And how would you determine that it's appendicitis?

well because he's getting an appendectomy...im not even being an dingus here lol it just seems that obvious to me, like i feel like the question is not indications for appendectomy but if you wanna know if i understand appendicitis the question is how do you determine the patient has appendicitis? Obviously if he is getting an appy he has appendicitis!

 

[deleted480308]

well because he's getting an appendectomy...im not even being an dingus here lol it just seems that obvious to me, like i feel like the question is not indications for appendectomy but if you wanna know if i understand appendicitis the question is how do you determine the patient has appendicitis? Obviously if he is getting an appy he has appendicitis!

Nope

You can physically be given an appendectomy without appendicitis

"Indications" is the reason to do a procedure which means the clinical exam/labs/imaging/history/pathology. What information would make a surgeon risk liability and death of surgery to do the thing they are now doing to someone

 

[sliceofbread136]

Also, just from experience, if you are asking questions a few weeks into the rotation, then it may seem to others that you aren't resourceful. Better to not ask everyone your questions and keep them to yourself and find the answers yourself afterwards. Show up 10 minutes early to sit around and talk to everyone, especially your peers, if you had study groups with them then my guess is you probably wouldn't be nagging anyone.

If I'm paying thousands to shadow some clown I'm gonna ask a question if I have it...

 

[Redpancreas]

well because he's getting an appendectomy...im not even being an dingus here lol it just seems that obvious to me, like i feel like the question is not indications for appendectomy but if you wanna know if i understand appendicitis the question is how do you determine the patient has appendicitis? Obviously if he is getting an appy he has appendicitis!

That's probably what was being asked and the answer's high clinical suspicion based on physical exam findings, onset, and perhaps labs. As a surgeon, the patient's diagnosis is not usually stamped on their forehead unless you have a consult from a good medicine team.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Pimping and Telling in private is NOT harsh. How else do you want feedback or know what they should know? Should med students get no questions asked and not have any feedback if they are doing poorly.

Med students have more and more become entitled. I find it kind of ridiculous. Do they want a pillow to sleep on, steak for lunch, and home before 3p?

I stopped working with med students b/c they have become more entitled and I got tired of it. I am sure some would disagree and think my complaints are invalid but this is why I stopped.

1. student showed up 2 hrs late for a 9 am shift b/c they left late from another city 3 hrs away b/c a family member is sick. Fine... crap happens, but CALL to tell me your are late. Don't come in at 11 and tell me why you were late.
2. students asking continually to take a break to get something to eat. You are a med student, you may miss lunch. Bring a snack. I am an ER doc and always take a break to eat. I always take you with me and get you free food. It may not be exactly at 12p but never before 2p. No reason to ask when I am busy right at 1230p.
3. Ask to go home early to study
4. Look disinterested when I am charting/making phone calls and texting on your Phone.

When I was a Med student 20 yrs ago, this was unheard of. You NEVER ask to eat or take a break unless the team takes one. If you go without food for 12 hrs, oh well...... I don't even expect you not to eat for 12 hrs. I take you to lunch every shift, get you starbucks in the am every shift, and go to the cafeteria 2-4 times a shift and always bring you. But DONT ask when I am busy and its 1215.

When I was a medical student I would never have done any of the things you described. But if you are sometimes taking them to lunch, then you're building the expectation that there is time for lunch, because a med student probably wont get nuance unless they're good.

A medical student who has no idea how the ed works might have no idea what a busy/time critical day is vs a calmer, normal day. I still make that mistake when I get too focused on my semi-urgent list and fail to notice the upper level has several critically ill patients.

If you're finding time with medical students frustrating, I would suggest telling them directly what expectations are ( ill tell you if we have time for lunch, etc) . If they seem bored while you're charting, try explaining the critical elements you are charting or asking them what is important in patient's presentation, etc. make it interactive. Alternatively tell them up front to run the list for labs/imaging when youre charting.

They want to be helpful, but a lot of them have no idea how to

 

[mehc012]

well because he's getting an appendectomy...im not even being an dingus here lol it just seems that obvious to me, like i feel like the question is not indications for appendectomy but if you wanna know if i understand appendicitis the question is how do you determine the patient has appendicitis? Obviously if he is getting an appy he has appendicitis!

But ultimately, it was the surgeon's call to bring them in for that appy. Not the ER attending's, not anyone else's...the patient is the OR under the care of the surgeon, and the surgeon decided that the appendix needed to come out. If you are a student, ostensibly learning about what you need to know to be a surgeon, then you need to try to understand how to make that call. The important part here is how they made that decision. Was it the story? The white count? Imaging? The exam? What if they had the story and the white count, but imaging didn't confirm? What if they had the story and a concerning exam, imaging came back as possible appendicitis, but there's no white count?

Honestly, as dominant as the OR seems in the surgical world, operating is just the mechanics. Knowing when to operate is crucial. And as a medical student, it's probably the most important part for you to get an idea of. You may not need to know how to take out an appendix in the future, but you should sure as hell have some understanding of when it may need to come out (aka when to call the surgeon).

Answering "the indication for this appendectomy is that they have appendicitis which I know because they're getting an appendectomy" does not show that you understand how to diagnose appendicitis. It's essentially equivalent to replying "this patient is getting an appendectomy because you said they needed one" which, while true, is not a metric that's going to help you jack all when you're practicing independently.

 

[emergentmd]

When I was a medical student I would never have done any of the things you described. But if you are sometimes taking them to lunch, then you're building the expectation that there is time for lunch, because a med student probably wont get nuance unless they're good.

A medical student who has no idea how the ed works might have no idea what a busy/time critical day is vs a calmer, normal day. I still make that mistake when I get too focused on my semi-urgent list and fail to notice the upper level has several critically ill patients.

If you're finding time with medical students frustrating, I would suggest telling them directly what expectations are ( ill tell you if we have time for lunch, etc) . If they seem bored while you're charting, try explaining the critical elements you are charting or asking them what is important in patient's presentation, etc. make it interactive. Alternatively tell them up front to run the list for labs/imaging when youre charting.

They want to be helpful, but a lot of them have no idea how to

Let me reframe what I said. My scribes, nurses, and med students generally love working with me. I am reasonable, never condescending, and always include them no matter what I do.

I always send med students and scribes home early and usually 1-2 hrs before I am done. Why? Because the last hour of my shift is just cleaning up and charting dispositions. I see no reason why I need them around.

When I go get coffee early in my shift, I take them and get them coffee. When I go to lunch which almost always before 1pm, I take them and get them lunch.

So don't tell me I am not communicating with them the days itinerary. I am sorry, you are still a med student. You are the lowest on the totem pole. You still need to earn your badges.

So don't ask me to go to lunch before 1pm, come in late and not acknowledging it, and constantly texting. Yes, I know the difference b/t texting your friends and using it to look up information. When your fingers are moving like crazy with smirks on your face, you are not reading on how to deal with emergencies.

 

[WedgeDawg]

well because he's getting an appendectomy...im not even being an dingus here lol it just seems that obvious to me, like i feel like the question is not indications for appendectomy but if you wanna know if i understand appendicitis the question is how do you determine the patient has appendicitis? Obviously if he is getting an appy he has appendicitis!

There's also an algorithm that determines whether or not you should operate based on things like perf / abscess even if the working diagnosis is appendicitis.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Let me reframe what I said. My scribes, nurses, and med students generally love working with me. I am reasonable, never condescending, and always include them no matter what I do.

I always send med students and scribes home early and usually 1-2 hrs before I am done. Why? Because the last hour of my shift is just cleaning up and charting dispositions. I see no reason why I need them around.

When I go get coffee early in my shift, I take them and get them coffee. When I go to lunch which almost always before 1pm, I take them and get them lunch.

So don't tell me I am not communicating with them the days itinerary. I am sorry, you are still a med student. You are the lowest on the totem pole. You still need to earn your badges.

So don't ask me to go to lunch before 1pm, come in late and not acknowledging it, and constantly texting. Yes, I know the difference b/t texting your friends and using it to look up information. When your fingers are moving like crazy with smirks on your face, you are not reading on how to deal with emergencies.

When you constantly open with how everyone loves working with you it usually means no one does.

 

[Redpancreas]

Let me reframe what I said. My scribes, nurses, and med students generally love working with me. I am reasonable, never condescending, and always include them no matter what I do.

I always send med students and scribes home early and usually 1-2 hrs before I am done. Why? Because the last hour of my shift is just cleaning up and charting dispositions. I see no reason why I need them around.

When I go get coffee early in my shift, I take them and get them coffee. When I go to lunch which almost always before 1pm, I take them and get them lunch.

So don't tell me I am not communicating with them the days itinerary. I am sorry, you are still a med student. You are the lowest on the totem pole. You still need to earn your badges.

So don't ask me to go to lunch before 1pm, come in late and not acknowledging it, and constantly texting. Yes, I know the difference b/t texting your friends and using it to look up information. When your fingers are moving like crazy with smirks on your face, you are not reading on how to deal with emergencies.

Also, to put it frankly stop buying med students stuff. Once in a while like the last day of their rotation or if they do some coffee scut for you tell them to get something with your card but don't buy them stuff everyday. It just sets up an uncomfortable dynamic IMO. Many medical students come from upper middle class families who live very comfortably with what their parents still provide them and can buy their own stuff.

The things I value most as a medical student are a rigid schedule. If you want to send me home at 6 everyday and only give me w a 30'minute lunch, that's fine, but then make those protected times.

 

[mehc012]

Also, to put it frankly stop buying med students stuff. Once in a while like the last day of their shift or if they do some coffee scut for you tell them to get something with your card but don't buy them stuff everyday. It just sets up an uncomfortable dynamic IMO. Many medical students come from upper middle class families who live very comfortably with what their parents still provide them and can buy their own stuff.

The things I value most as a medical student are a rigid schedule. If you want to send me home at 6 everyday and only give me w a 30'minute lunch, that's fine, but then make those protected times.

What are you on about? It's a nice gesture when your boss grabs you lunch or something like that. When I scribed, most docs got their scribes food each shift; they recognized that we were working the same ridiculous hours as them without as much spending money. I don't expect it, but it's not by itself uncomfortable. And while 'most' might live comfortably with what their parents provide them, not all do (though we do all have access to Monopoly money).

Medicine doesn't lend itself well to rigid schedules; that's a useful thing to get used to early. When I'm working on a team, I expect to eat and leave at similar times as the rest of the team; otherwise how is it a useful preview?

 

[Rendar5]

Also, to put it frankly stop buying med students stuff. Once in a while like the last day of their shift or if they do some coffee scut for you tell them to get something with your card but don't buy them stuff everyday. It just sets up an uncomfortable dynamic IMO. Many medical students come from upper middle class families who live very comfortably with what their parents still provide them and can buy their own stuff.

The things I value most as a medical student are a rigid schedule. If you want to send me home at 6 everyday and only give me w a 30'minute lunch, that's fine, but then make those protected times.

umm...what...? protected time in the ED? lol, there is no such thing. Grab food as soon as there is a lull because there may not be a lull for the rest of the shift. (Though I realize you may not have realized you were speaking to someone w/ med students on ED rotations)

 

[sliceofbread136]

umm...what...? protected time in the ED? lol, there is no such thing. Grab food as soon as there is a lull because there may not be a lull for the rest of the shift. (Though I realize you may not have realized you were speaking to someone w/ med students on ED rotations)

That's fine... just tell the medical student that so they aren't sitting there starving to death wondering "when the hell is lunch time"

 

[takeurmeds02]

Oooo jeez, so much text.

 

[FantasticDoctorFox]

As far as the food/lunch break stuff goes it's not that hard to pack a granola bar or two if you know you're someone who feels like they HAVE to eat at a particular time or are prone to becoming hangry. As a student, I never EXPECT to have time to go eat at the cafeteria and always bring some snacks in case the day is just ungodly busy.

And for the OPs original question, I agree with the other posters in that most of what you are describing does not seem like abuse. For instance, asking questions is good. Asking questions that you could easily find out with a 2 minute google search or that you are expected to have learned during the first week--not so good (and probably pretty annoying). I think the world of surgery is best to be thought about like being an athlete on a team. You are critiqued in order to make you BETTER. As a former athlete, the worst thing was NOT having the coach yell at you...it was having him/her IGNORE you. If they are critiquing you it means they think you can do better; if they ignore you, it means they've already decided you're not worth their time. (Note: I'm not advocating for yelling as an effective teaching tool, but simply trying to illustrate they idea that having a teacher/coach/resident who is willing to take the time to give you feedback and point out where you need to improve is a GOOD thing and NOT abuse.)