Academic Dishonesty

[Doc_Ock]

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The people who are pretending that this sort of behavior is not practiced nearly unanimously by pre-meds either live under a rock or are going through their classes with their eyes shut.

Some people apparently live in a very, very sheltered bubble and are VERY disconnected from reality.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Some people apparently live in a very, very sheltered bubble and are VERY disconnected from reality.

The fact that Goro is apparently a faculty member and is in complete denial/oblivion to what is likely going on right under his nose is somewhat concerning as well.

 

[anonybear]

@The Dragon Slayer
@latinclubimperatus
So glad you two found each other

 

[Goro]

Plagiarism: Facts & Stats - Plagiarism.org
"95 percent said they participated in some form of cheating, whether it was on a test, plagiarism or copying homework."
Eat it.

Try getting something from Pubmed on college students or med students . High school students indeed.

 

[Kr#36]

Try getting something from Pubmed on college students or med students . High school students indeed.

He/she ignored the larger studies with much lower numbers reporting engaging in any kind of cheating in order to scroll to the bottom and find the small New England high school study.

As I said earlier, it is hard to accept that you can be a cheater and still get beat out by those that don’t.

 

[Goro]

He/she ignored the larger studies with much lower numbers reporting engaging in any kind of cheating in order to scroll to the bottom and find the small New England high school study.

As I said earlier, it is hard to accept that you can be a cheater and still get beat out by those that don’t.

Yup. Solipsism is strong in the cynical, bitter ones. Some people love the smell of confirmation bias in the morning, it seems.

 

[NicMouse64]

Just a few things that "95%" study includes as cheating:

Reading a book

>Read an abridged version of a book (e.g., Sparks Notes) rather than the original.
>Read a foreign language assignment in English instead of the foreign language.

Contributing subjectively less than other group members

>Claimed credit for group work when you really didn't contribute.

Sharing class notes

>Sold, purchased, or distributed in some other way, test or exam copies or questions, essays, or class notes.

Never did any of these things unless the professor explicitly stated it was okay. I had professors say it was okay to read the spark notes or english version first. Aside from that, if asked I would tell professors if asked that group members weren't pulling weight. One got a big fat academic IA for claiming "our work" as his too despite never showing up to a group meeting. Sharing class notes can be okay, there are things called note taking services. The fact they include this means their methods suck.

It's like reading a scientific paper that says in it's introduction "WE CURED CANCER", and you go to the methods and see they eliminated a protein that causes cancer on a questionable western blot.....just doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

[HomeSkool]

Some people love the smell of confirmation bias in the morning, it seems.

It smells like horsesh**!

And for those who think "everyone" cheats: If you decide to roll around in dog crap, you'll go through the whole day thinking everyone you meet also smells like dog crap. But it's not them. It's you.

#MadeTheGradeWithoutCheating

 

[thehopeisreal]

I had a theft violation on my record that I reported on my app. I ended up doing decently well this cycle despite it. of course, it was freshman year of college(3-4 years ago) and I had a more understandable back story, and academic dishonesty is worse, but there may be hope for you. I would take a couple gap years and get your app strong as possible. If you truly can't see yourself doing anything else all you can do is try your best. good luck!

 

[Doc_Ock]

He/she ignored the larger studies with much lower numbers reporting engaging in any kind of cheating in order to scroll to the bottom and find the small New England high school study.

As I said earlier, it is hard to accept that you can be a cheater and still get beat out by those that don’t.

I didn’t realize 43,000 was a small number.


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[Doc_Ock]

Yup. Solipsism is strong in the cynical, bitter ones. Some people love the smell of confirmation bias in the morning, it seems.

Confirmation bias? You’re the one changing goalposts.


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[Goro]

Confirmation bias? You’re the one changing goalposts.
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*sigh* You appear to be unteachable, so I'm just going to hit the Ignore switch. You'll feel a slight stinging sensation between the eye.

 

[Doc_Ock]

*sigh* You appear to be unteachable, so I'm just going to hit the Ignore switch. You'll feel a slight stinging sensation between the eye.

What’s it like to not accept reality? Seems dull.


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[Magus5454]

Plagiarism: Facts & Stats - Plagiarism.org
"95 percent said they participated in some form of cheating, whether it was on a test, plagiarism or copying homework."
Eat it.

*shrugs* High school, not college/undergrad/grad/professional, and like was noted, the range of things considered cheating...

I didn’t realize 43,000 was a small number.


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That was also in relation to high school, not college/etc. Also pre med/med students are such a small fraction of the people, don't you think people actually have morals?

 

[Doc_Ock]

*shrugs* High school, not college/undergrad/grad/professional, and like was noted, the range of things considered cheating...

That was also in relation to high school, not college/etc. Also pre med/med students are such a small fraction of the people, don't you think people actually have morals?

I made the claim that almost everyone cheats in some form or fashion at some point, including high school. People here seem to think that means plagiarism or something egregious, but it’s the small things that are so extremely common. People here denied it happened in high school. I showed that it did. Now they’re saying some stuff doesn’t really mean cheating (lol). Shift those goalposts....


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[mwsapphire]

If we have to explain it to you, you won't understand anyway.

How much you willing to be that he didn't get into med school b/c of a cheating IA?

 

[Goro]

How much you willing to be that he didn't get into med school b/c of a cheating IA?

I'm suspecting other deficits.

 

[mwsapphire]

I'm suspecting other deficits.

I dont even bet on things
I just sensed some bitterness in his " cheating' remark...and it seems like the only other obvious thing besides criminal record.

 

[trev5150]

TIL there are 4 calculuses. Did you take it on a quarter system or something?

After calc 2 the only calculi are in my kidneys

 

[Doc_Ock]

How much you willing to be that he didn't get into med school b/c of a cheating IA?

Lol I got in, clean app. I’m just not in denial about how the world is.


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[Doc_Ock]

I dont even bet on things
I just sensed some bitterness in his " cheating' remark...and it seems like the only other obvious thing besides criminal record.

Lawl, sound logic, because I acknowledge that it happens I must not only be a cheater, but also a criminal!
Christ you people are pathetic.


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[Magus5454]

What about IA in summer school, a one of course you took at a different university, where you are not a degree seeking student. If the transcript is not submitted to med school, should you still be disclosing a disciplinary action?

So you got in trouble and your response is to hide it? Not great.

 

[ciestar]

What about IA in summer school, a one of course you took at a different university, where you are not a degree seeking student. If the transcript is not submitted to med school, should you still be disclosing a disciplinary action?

If you registered for a course there and there is a transcript, you’re obligated to put that on your primary regardless.

 

[Goro]

What about IA in summer school, a one of course you took at a different university, where you are not a degree seeking student. If the transcript is not submitted to med school, should you still be disclosing a disciplinary action?

There's a national clearing house for transcripts. So not mentioning the summer course, and the IA, would lead to a dismissal after matriculation.

 

[de Ribas]

What if there is no transcript, because you were required to withdraw?

Even if you withdraw, there should be a transcript.

 

[Magus5454]

What if there is no transcript, because you were required to withdraw?

The only reason there wouldn't be one is you dropped before the W date, which if you got an IA, is not likely. Especially for a summer class since I think the W date is usually like the 2nd day of class, at least where I went.

 

[Byfellox]

thanks but i will take my chances. i wont know for sure until i find out for myself. thank you.

Well, just to add on to what everyone else here has said already, I am currently attending interviews and this process is ******* expensive. You seem to be hell bent on going through this cycle despite having average to low stats and a lethal blemish, just be prepared to drop potentially thousands of dollars to no avail.

 

[GenSurgONLY]

You do have to report it and you explain it in a special section on the AACOMAS application form. You'd better make a very explanation in your PS about how you own it now.


Even with that, you may get interviews, and then it's on how you handle it face-to-face.

But at my school, you'd likely end up being rejected. There's good data to show that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest medical students (and earlier). While some people believe in the power of redemption, we tend to be VERY harsh with cheaters. After all, we get so many applicants without a blemish on their record, why should we take a chance on you?

Suggest you start thinking about other career plans.

I heard lying is like worse than incompetency in the medical profession. Rather you fail then lie.

 

[HanSoloYolo]

There's a national clearing house for transcripts. So not mentioning the summer course, and the IA, would lead to a dismissal after matriculation.

Wait does that mean before matriculation you have to resend transcripts? Or do you mean the national clearing house just says to the school: student x attended these schools for undergrad and has transcripts here for verification purposes without actually sending the actual transcripts?

 

[ciestar]

Wait does that mean before matriculation you have to resend transcripts? Or do you mean the national clearing house just says to the school: student x attended these schools for undergrad and has transcripts here for verification purposes without actually sending the actual transcripts?

My school required me to resend transcripts a few months before matriculation.

I think Clearinghouse just tells them you enrolled and took classes at those institutions.

 

[I'mJustCurious]

There's a national clearing house for transcripts. So not mentioning the summer course, and the IA, would lead to a dismissal after matriculation.

So if someone took classes at a University for a semester and did not complete them, they would be obligated to send a transcript from the school when applying?

 

[Goro]

So if someone took classes at a University for a semester and did not complete them, they would be obligated to send a transcript from the school when applying?

That's a level of logistics outside my expertise.

@gonnif?

 

[I'mJustCurious]

1) at virtually every medical school, during the post-admissions/pre-matriculation after you have taken a final offer of acceptance, you must submit official transcripts from every school you have ever attended. Among other things, this is to verify prerequisite fulfillment.
2) In the MSAR some schools will list dates when prereqs must be completed by in order to start matriculation and that date is getting earlier and earlier
3) at virtually all schools if you can produce an official transcripts showing requirements have been met, you will likely be forced to defer. The schools would also have the right to rescind acceptance. I have had one advisee who completed a summer course requirement but the school didnt the official transcript in time so he was deferred. Similar thing happened with August graduate. Didnt have degree by matriculation so deferred.
4) As it is clearly says on the AMCAS instruction, any school you ever registered at for at least one course, must be reported and get a transcript, even if credits were transferred, no credit earned, or withdrew.


View attachment 240408

You the MVP

 

[Doc_Ock]

Wait does that mean before matriculation you have to resend transcripts? Or do you mean the national clearing house just says to the school: student x attended these schools for undergrad and has transcripts here for verification purposes without actually sending the actual transcripts?

Correct. They just verify where you were and for how long. Nothing more.


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[RNtoMD87]

First of all, I should say that there are a lot of really smart PAs out there that could have gone to medical school. I'm from the south, and I think a lot of female undergrads especially end up in nursing school or PA school simply because those are more typically in line with historical women's roles. Not the case for everyone, but it happens a lot.

As for the cheating--premed kids cheat all the time, and not just the old fashioned way. What is worse, tossing back some adderall to help you cram for a test, or changing a couple questions on a scantron? Its really sad and frusturating to me that this kid may have screwed over his whole future for getting caught when there are worse offenders out there who will never get caught. I tend to think that you might be ok for DO school if you can explain it and the schools will hear you out. The problem is, you might be borderline already since you have a lower-end MCAT and low GPA. I would say take a couple years off and strengthen your application in some way--which I would probably advise you to do even without the cheating situation. Get a MS or join the peace corps or TFA or something interesting to give back. You'll be fine.

Gets me how everyone these days is a dopehead. In my nursing school class half of them were on Adderall, and were like hyperfocused zombies. Its really pathetic.

 

[Magus5454]

I was diagnosed with ADHD and depression right after the summer quarter, but could only get the official report and then medication after the summer quarter. I had repeated told the prof about not being able to disengage from anxiety. I got a warning for copying a pre lab report and then rewrote the lab report, but I left a two line explanation for a short answer. It was from the key from the school, the professor knew about it, and the TA reported the lab report. There was IA and I was given a failing grade for the entire summer course. It was 8 credit units

I was basically really sick, and there was oversight. I tried to get the prof to reconsider but to no avail. I wonder if a failing grade was warranted?

You copied answers from a key, rewrote it after being *warned* and kept an answer from it?
Uh yeah you deserved the failure. You cheated. Yes, you had issues, you however chose to do it and you are going to have to deal with the consequences

 

[892459]

The whole class had the key and sat and para phrased the crap out of the report.

You copied answers from a key, rewrote it after being *warned* and kept an answer from it?
Uh yeah you deserved the failure. You cheated. Yes, you had issues, you however chose to do it and you are going to have to deal with the consequences

Watch your tone. You can still be civil. I am dealing with the consequences, I was looking for advice to better deal, not your judgement.

 

[Magus5454]

The whole class had the key and sat and para phrased the crap out of the report.


Watch your tone. You can still be civil. I am dealing with the consequences, I was looking for advice to better deal, not your judgement.

That is civil. You didn't mention the fact that the class had the key but it sounds like you copied it verbatim. In any way shape or form in a class that is plagiarism. In any syllabus I have gotten you are warned of the consequences of that.

 

[Magus5454]

I was explaining a redox equation, in my head it appeared like math. So I thought fundamentals of a redox reaction cannot change no matter how it is written. And in my muddled state I kept going. When I told the dean of my medical condition she wanted to reconsider but then the board decided against it. What should I do?

You are just going to have to live with it. Prove that you have changed.