Academic dishonesty

[99shinylucario]

In my junior first semester i got an academic dishonesty for genetics it was completely stupid and i had a near perfect score until then but now i will be failing the class and a academic dishonesty report is being submitted my sGpa was a 3.7 prior to this. What can i do or what should i do now. Post bacc is not an option. I was planning on taking a gap semester originally due to having too many credits should i not do that anymore? Are my chances of med school dashed now and i should just look for another career?

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[petomed]

How's your cPGA and MCAT?

 

[candbgirl]

In my junior first semester i got an academic dishonesty for genetics it was completely stupid and i had a near perfect score until then but now i will be failing the class and a academic dishonesty report is being submitted my sGpa was a 3.7 prior to this. What can i do or what should i do now. Post bacc is not an option. I was planning on taking a gap semester originally due to having too many credits should i not do that anymore? Are my chances of med school dashed now and i should just look for another career?

Can you tell us specifically what you did? Academic Dishonesty is hard thing to get around.

 

[LeeSin]

It depends on what you did and when it happened really. I have one and I could give you advice, feel free to PM me. The F is gonna sting though, retake the class and get an A the right way

 

[Goro]

It depends on what you did and when it happened really.

The OP was a junior at the time, and in my book, that's when one is supposed to know better.

But 100% agree with you otherwise.

OP, take this to the Confidential Consult forum if you're not comfortable in sharing details

 

[LeeSin]

The OP was a junior at the time, and in my book, that's when one is supposed to know better.

But 100% agree with you otherwise.

OP, take this to the Confidential Consult forum if you're not comfortable in sharing details

lucario (great taste in pokemon btw),

I've scoured the internet like you are, looking for an answer. Here's what I've found so far after reading multiple posts from adcoms like Goro.

Each one is different. Like Goro mentioned above, you were a junior, and you got an F. Even if you didn't cheat, that would stand out. Since you got an F I'm going to assume that you cheated with the intent to cheat, or on an exam or something. I make the distinction here because in my case (plagiarism), my school makes a distinction for intent, and that resulted in my grade going from an A- to a B+. For comparison, mine was in my sophomore year, and I'm taking 2 gap years. You should be prepared to take at least a few years off. Time off is essential, there is no right answer for time off but there are wrong answers. And that depends on what kind of academic dishonesty..... Forgot a citation?--> get off this forum you're fine Stole your professor's car to get the answer to a question?---> loooong time.

What you do FROM NOW ON MATTERS. Stop beating yourself up, stop questioning it. You're just wasting time. It's part of the process but don't dwell on it. Get yourself involved responsibly. I worked with the professor whose class I plagiarized in to do something that I am even more proud of than any of my test scores. You can show that you've changed, but with your actions over time.


Your application now has to be strong. You just gave every school a reason to toss you in the bin, give them some other reasons not to (STRONG MCAT, 4.0 after your mistake, great ECs,etc etc).

Silver lining: This is the worst thing that's probably ever happened to you, but it can be the best thing with reflection, time, and commitment.


good luck friend, I believe in you

 

[Goro]

lucario (great taste in pokemon btw),

I've scoured the internet like you are, looking for an answer. Here's what I've found so far after reading multiple posts from adcoms like Goro.

Each one is different. Like Goro mentioned above, you were a junior, and you got an F. Even if you didn't cheat, that would stand out. Since you got an F I'm going to assume that you cheated with the intent to cheat, or on an exam or something. I make the distinction here because in my case (plagiarism), my school makes a distinction for intent, and that resulted in my grade going from an A- to a B+. For comparison, mine was in my sophomore year, and I'm taking 2 gap years. You should be prepared to take at least a few years off. Time off is essential, there is no right answer for time off but there are wrong answers. And that depends on what kind of academic dishonesty..... Forgot a citation?--> get off this forum you're fine Stole your professor's car to get the answer to a question?---> loooong time.

What you do FROM NOW ON MATTERS. Stop beating yourself up, stop questioning it. You're just wasting time. It's part of the process but don't dwell on it. Get yourself involved responsibly. I worked with the professor whose class I plagiarized in to do something that I am even more proud of than any of my test scores. You can show that you've changed, but with your actions over time.


Your application now has to be strong. You just gave every school a reason to toss you in the bin, give them some other reasons not to (STRONG MCAT, 4.0 after your mistake, great ECs,etc etc).

Silver lining: This is the worst thing that's probably ever happened to you, but it can be the best thing with reflection, time, and commitment.


good luck friend, I believe in you

To add to this very wise advice, OP, do not **** up again.

 

[99shinylucario]

How's your cPGA and MCAT?

No mcat yet but cgpa is also about a 3.7

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Try to find a letter writer who will vouch for your character growth since the incident occurred. I think this is very important and why I didn’t get rejected off the bat everywhere despite having a significant red flag in application

 

[allseasons]

The OP was a junior at the time, and in my book, that's when one is supposed to know better.

But 100% agree with you otherwise.

OP, take this to the Confidential Consult forum if you're not comfortable in sharing details

Just curious, if you have really high stats but a academic dishonesty IA, do you have a decent shot at DO schools or nope.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Just curious, if you have really high stats but a academic dishonesty IA, do you have a decent shot at DO schools or nope.

From what I have heard, generally not. I think that DO schools may have a lower stats threshold than MD schools, but character/conduct standards are equally high.

 

[allseasons]

From what I have heard, generally not. I think that DO schools may have a lower stats threshold than MD schools, but character/conduct standards are equally high.

btw, did you ever apply for DO schools? This is your third time, right? or nah MD only all 3 cycles (obviously MD only the first one)

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

btw, did you ever apply for DO schools? This is your third time, right? or nah MD only all 3 cycles (obviously MD only the first one)

This is my second one. I took some time off from considering medicine as a possibility between my first cycle and this cycle. I was considering applying MD and DO this cycle but was basically told that the red flag would be considered equally by both so I did MD only because my extracurriculars/academics fit better.

 

[allseasons]

This is my second one. I took some time off from considering medicine as a possibility between my first cycle and this cycle. I was considering applying MD and DO this cycle but was basically told that the red flag would be considered equally by both so I did MD only because my extracurriculars/academics fit better.

Oh? I thought you said you applied one time between your first and now, and received no interviews.

 

[candbgirl]

Just curious, if you have really high stats but a academic dishonesty IA, do you have a decent shot at DO schools or nope.

Why would DO overlook an Academic Dishonesty IA? Why would you even think that. DO schools aren’t hard up for students.

 

[Goro]

Just curious, if you have really high stats but a academic dishonesty IA, do you have a decent shot at DO schools or nope.

Do not think for a second that DO schools think less of cheating than MD schools.
My DO colleagues take professionalism as seriously as my MD colleagues. And we all know that there is data to support the observation that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students.

 

[cincincyreds]

In my junior first semester i got an academic dishonesty for genetics it was completely stupid and i had a near perfect score until then but now i will be failing the class and a academic dishonesty report is being submitted my sGpa was a 3.7 prior to this. What can i do or what should i do now. Post bacc is not an option. I was planning on taking a gap semester originally due to having too many credits should i not do that anymore? Are my chances of med school dashed now and i should just look for another career?

Is it possible to talk to the school to get the academic disonesty off of your record? Then you can figure out a way to explain the F.

 

[Goro]

Is it possible to talk to the school to get the academic dishonesty off of your record? Then you can figure out a way to explain the F.

The problem is that when you see one glaring grade discrepancy like an F in a sea of As, one's mind goes to one of two things:
1) lazy to the point of something pathological
2) cheating

 

[KnightDoc]

Is it possible to talk to the school to get the academic disonesty off of your record? Then you can figure out a way to explain the F.

Highly unlikely. After all, since it was deemed serious enough to warrant an F, wouldn't hiding the infraction from grad schools actually constitute a form of dishonesty on the part of the school?

I would think the time to deal with that is when the disposition is being decided, not later after you realize what the consequences are. I can't believe any school would actually entertain such a request after the fact.

It's worth keeping in mind that academic dishonesty is the cardinal sin of academia. It calls into question an entire academic record, since cheaters rarely get caught the very first time, no matter what they say.

 

[allseasons]

Highly unlikely. After all, since it was deemed serious enough to warrant an F, wouldn't hiding the infraction from grad schools actually constitute a form of dishonesty on the part of the school?

I would think the time to deal with that is when the disposition is being decided, not later after you realize what the consequences are. I can't believe any school would actually entertain such a request after the fact.

It's worth keeping in mind that academic dishonesty is the cardinal sin of academia. It calls into question an entire academic record, since cheaters rarely get caught the very first time, no matter what they say.

Lots of colleges have procedures in place to expunge disciplinary records after X years or upon petition after some period of time, which can be useful. Usually the time period is quite long though (4-7 years) so probs not the most relevant to OP. Ik someone that waited 3 years post-graduation to apply to law school so her record was expunged then got into her top choice, so it is an option depending on school.

The problem is that when you see one glaring grade discrepancy like an F in a sea of As, one's mind goes to one of two things:
1) lazy to the point of something pathological
2) cheating

There's also carelessness/misfortune. Freshman year a guy in our hall set his clock to 8 (physical clock, not phone lol), and ended up missing his exam because of daylight savings. Grade went down 30% or so.

 

[gyngyn]

Is it possible to talk to the school to get the academic disonesty off of your record?

This would not eliminate the need to report:
Institutional Action: Medical schools need to know if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment, require you to withdraw, or does not appear on your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition.

Sections 1-3 of the AMCAS® Application: Your Background Information

Guide for sections 1-3 of the AAMC's American Medical College Application Service® (AMCAS®) in which applicants will provide their background information.

students-residents.aamc.org

 

[candbgirl]

Lots of colleges have procedures in place to expunge disciplinary records after X years or upon petition after some period of time, which can be useful. Usually the time period is quite long though (4-7 years) so probs not the most relevant to OP. Ik someone that waited 3 years post-graduation to apply to law school so her record was expunged then got into her top choice, so it is an option depending on school.


There's also carelessness/misfortune. Freshman year a guy in our hall set his clock to 8 (physical clock, not phone lol), and ended up missing his exam because of daylight savings. Grade went down 30% or so.

Not true with AMCAS.Even if it doesn’t appear on the transcript it has to be reported. So there is that wrinkle.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Academic dishonesty is considered by many to be more than a mistake and actually repulsive. It is taken very seriously and a major red flag. Why should a school accept you when they have dozens of applicants with equivalent or better stats and no red flags? You need serious credibility repair. It will take some time to build a positive resume proving you are no longer that person. I wish I could be more optimistic, but I believe your short term chances at successfully matriculating are low given your prior applications. I wish you nothing but the best.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Academic dishonesty is considered by many to be more than a mistake and actually repulsive. It is taken very seriously and a major red flag. Why should a school accept you when they have dozens of applicants with equivalent or better stats and no red flags? You need serious credibility repair. It will take some time to build a positive resume proving you are no longer that person. I wish I could be more optimistic, but I believe your short term chances at successfully matriculating are low given your prior applications. I wish you nothing but the best.

It’s also pretty important to remember when considering red flags that at most schools the entire committee,rather than just a few people, in some way shape or form decide an applicant’s fate. From my experience, it seems like application readers, interview selection subcommittees, and even interviewers themselves can be sympathetic to applicants who have a red flag despite an otherwise solid application. However, due to the law of large numbers, it is likely that at least a few members of any committee will be less forgiving of a red flag. These votes/scores can drag down the composite score, resulting in a WL/R post interview on what otherwise would have been an A

 

[Angus Avagadro]

It’s also pretty important to remember when considering red flags that at most schools the entire committee,rather than just a few people, in some way shape or form decide an applicant’s fate. From my experience, it seems like application readers, interview selection subcommittees, and even interviewers themselves can be sympathetic to applicants who have a red flag despite an otherwise solid application. However, due to the law of large numbers, it is likely that at least a few members of any committee will be less forgiving of a red flag. These votes/scores can drag down the composite score, resulting in a WL/R post interview on what otherwise would have been an A

I don't disagree. People's responses can vary and the numbers on the comittee can dilute one person's negative vote. That's assuming only 1 or 2 people have a problem with it. We know little about OPS app, including his Mcat score. With a red flag such as his, he needs to provide a "Reason" for the school to accept him. I have found schools and residencies are not looking to hire a problem. Although a 3.7 GPA is good, it's not stellar. With the information in hand, I still believe their chances of successfully matriculating are low.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Had a serious conduct IA and matriculated... 9 years after the fact. You're going to need a handful of years to wash this one out. Can you share what happened in more detail?

 

[allseasons]

I don't disagree. People's responses can vary and the numbers on the comittee can dilute one person's negative vote. That's assuming only 1 or 2 people have a problem with it. We know little about OPS app, including his Mcat score. With a red flag such as his, he needs to provide a "Reason" for the school to accept him. I have found schools and residencies are not looking to hire a problem. Although a 3.7 GPA is good, it's not stellar. With the information in hand, I still believe their chances of successfully matriculating are low.

The new stats are out, and the average GPA of matriculants has risen to 3.81. The Asian/White MCAT average is 513+, with Asians at an AVERAGE mcat of 514.5, which is 88th-90th percentile... kind of mind boggling. If OP isn't URM, his GPA can't hit more than average by graduation, and his MCAT would have to be insanely high just to warrent a look at his application with a red flag in the near future.

OP, I think you have to decide whether you're willing to dedicate a long time and a lot of money to get into med school, or whether other career paths might be a bit better. Just a heads up, almost no jobs care about IAs or even ask for them. Sucks that you got caught, or that this one incident may have such a large impact on your career trajectory, but if there's one thing I've learned it's that medicine is more unforgiving than most other fields, especially if you're part of any overrepresented demographic.