Being dishonest about academic dishonesty on AMCAS

[UpTheCreek]

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[Goro]

Don't try to enter a profession that values honesty by being dishonest.

Your problem may have been your school list or essays or LORs, not the IA. Things that happened in FR years tend to be viewed as less serious as those that happened later on.

 

[LizzyM]

I would worry that AMCAS would flag applicants that ever reported an IA and check to see if an IA is reported in a subsequent cycle by someone with one of the AMCAS ID numbers associated with an IA reported in a previous cycle. Not reporting an IA is an automatic disqualification as you will have stipulated that the application is complete and accurate and the failure to list the IA is obviously an omission.

Pay your money and take your chances but the cure could be far worse than the disease.

 

[a_distant_dream]

Part of me wants to just apply to a whole new set of schools I haven’t applied to before and just leave that part of my application out next time …

This will likely not work. There are stories of people hiding an IA on reapplications and receiving extremely threatening letters from AMCAS telling them to change it back or not get verified.

edit: agree with LizzyM!

 

[ethereal_fae]

It’s my second time applying to medical school, and despite applying broadly to ~25 schools that I scored at the very least of the 10th percentile of GPA and MCAT based on MSAR (cGPA 3.70, sGPA 3.65, MCAT 522), I have once again found myself approaching Thanksgiving without any interview invites. I have hundreds of hours of shadowing, research, and volunteering, just over a hundred in patient contact and care, and I excelled (and continue to excel) at an extracurricular artistic endeavor, but none of this seems to be enough.

The thing is, I think I know exactly why. During my freshman year, someone leaked the answers to a chemistry lab final and I used them because I hadn’t been taking detailed enough notes and it seemed like a big chunk of the class was also planning on using it. Eventually, we got caught and it went on my academic record for a brief period (nothing on my transcript though).

I decided to be honest and list it on my AMCAS applications because I thought making a mistake as an anxious freshman wouldn’t be the biggest issue since I had worked honestly and done well for myself throughout the rest of my time at college and during my gap years. Now I regret mentioning it at all.

It’s not that I don’t want to be honest, but I’ve started to wonder if somehow me just even ticking that box on the application that I had some academic issue and explaining that I cheated was enough to get my application thrown out before being looked at because of how competitive medical school is.

I understand that I made a mistake. That honesty and integrity are easily some of the most important qualities in a healthcare provider. That thousands of other applicants were likely in similar shoes but didn’t cheat so my reasoning for cheating in the first place doesn’t explain my mistake away. But I had just turned 19 and I’m in the latter half of my 20s now and I feel like I’ll never be able to escape the actions of a younger, dumber me.

I don’t know if I’m ready to give up on this dream of becoming a physician, but part of me can’t stop being frustrated with my situation. Friends and other medical students on this site and in real life reviewed my application (not knowing I had this academic dishonesty mark on it because of how embarrassed I am discussing it) and have said they find it odd I’ve had this little success considering the schools I applied to.

Part of me wants to just apply to a whole new set of schools I haven’t applied to before and just leave that part of my application out next time around (my MCAT score will have expired after this next cycle) – there’s nothing on my official record or transcript anymore to prove me wrong - but this doesn’t feel right either. What should I do?

I know someone who didn't report an arrest on a reapplication after their record was expunged (as is allowed by amcas) and their app was flagged and they could not get verified without proving to amcas that the expungement had happened. They had reported it on their previous application and had to provide a bunch of documentation in order to leave it off. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens if you didn't report an IA after previously reporting one.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Welcome back!

I don't see a WAMC, so I don't know if there were other circumstances. Did you get specific feedback from schools saying your IA was the reason you for screened out? How much help did you get writing your IA statement? I'm not doubting the unit of others you may have met on this forum, but I always make sure you go over your statement with your student conduct office, just to know what they would do to corroborate facts.

 

[skeptastic]

I don't have any advice to offer, but I wanted to say that I hope the cycle works out for you, and I am rooting for you. I have a soft spot for those with past mistakes who are looking to redeem themselves. Keep your head up, seek advice about your entire app before any sort of reapplication, and make it happen!

 

[chilly_md]

I have hundreds of hours of shadowing, research, and volunteering, just over a hundred in patient contact and care, and I excelled (and continue to excel) at an extracurricular artistic endeavor, but none of this seems to be enough.

This is a major issue if that is the only clinical experience you have. I am surprised your friends and other reviewers of your application did not notice this. Reapplying without significant changes is often a mistake that students make too.

 

[skeptastic]

This is a major issue if that is the only clinical experience you have. I am surprised your friends and other reviewers of your application did not notice this. Reapplying without significant changes is often a mistake that students make too.

I totally missed this. Just over 100 clinical hours during a reapp could definitely be a major issue. I'm guessing it would've been expected that a reapplicant would shore up any deficiencies between app cycles.

 

[deleted1130038]

i have no advice to give but this is a super funny title

also i hope everything works out for you, the dumb things we do when we are 18

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Plenty of people are accepted with conduct issues from undergrad, myself included. Sometimes applicants with IAs need to take additional gap years. Don’t risk blacklisting yourself by not disclosing something that’s easily verified as previously disclosed. One incident of dishonesty many years ago can be overlooked. A second one post grad really can’t be.

 

[UpTheCreek]

I'll start off by saying that a lot of this initial post was made out of a bit of a sudden rush of frustration/disappointment because of the realization that the classic application benchmark that is Thanksgiving is in just a few days. I already understand the consequences associated with withholding something like an academic dishonesty mark on my record should I get in and later have my acceptance/degree revoked. I may not get into medical school, but I'd rather not be able to practice medicine than not be able to practice medicine AND be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

Don't try to enter a profession that values honesty by being dishonest.

Your problem may have been your school list or essays or LORs, not the IA. Things that happened in FR years tend to be viewed as less serious as those that happened later on.

While I definitely had more reaches than I likely should have during my first application cycle, my school list this year was largely based off a WAMC thread I had posted here and my own research on MSAR. I had about 7 people between this site and other friends who are currently in medical school review my personal statement who all liked it and offered helpful edits and suggestions.

Maybe I truly am blowing this IA out of proportion, and that the reality is that my secondary essays are actually holding me back. Maybe I'm less skilled at writing than I thought I was, but if it's secondary applications - what would the best course of action be for seeing if I'm approaching them incorrectly? Is paying for one of those consulting companies worthwhile in this regard (something I'm heavily considering at this point)? Secondary essays can be so school specific and I've followed a lot of the advice of several threads here and elsewhere on how to approach them and fit them with each school's mission statement, so my gut reaction is that this is an area most people don't get much help with through SDN.

Welcome back!

I don't see a WAMC, so I don't know if there were other circumstances. Did you get specific feedback from schools saying your IA was the reason you for screened out? How much help did you get writing your IA statement? I'm not doubting the unit of others you may have met on this forum, but I always make sure you go over your statement with your student conduct office, just to know what they would do to corroborate facts.

While I had this account to post my problem a while back, I actually forgot I had made it for this specific reason back when I first got word I was being charged with academic dishonesty. The account I used for the majority of the past few years was actually associated with my school email address which I don't have access to any longer (and I forgot the password for). The IA statement was reviewed by a few close friends in medical school and my partner who majored in English and is a pretty great writer. I arguably could have had more people review it but wasn't sure who to reach out to since the general reception of anyone with a mark like mine on SDN is so disheartening and seemingly career-ending at times.

My undergraduate university is unfortunately not very helpful to alumni. I've reached out with several detailed questions regarding what exactly is on file and what I should report, but the only thing ever returned to me is a one line summary of the infraction and that I received a 0 on that exam (brought my grade down from an A to a B for reference). This is on file in the academic dishonesty department, but officially it was expunged according to university policy sometime between my freshman year and my first time applying to medical schools 2 years after I graduated. I'm personally still not sure how my 'file' and my 'record' are considered distinct, but I imagine it's kept this way in order to have some kind of evidence for later clarification in situations like mine.

This is a major issue if that is the only clinical experience you have. I am surprised your friends and other reviewers of your application did not notice this. Reapplying without significant changes is often a mistake that students make too.

I guess I should note that during my first cycle, I absolutely had a lack of traditional clinical experience (I was working as a scribe almost full time after college for a year thinking it would count towards this but found out later that it's seen more as glorified shadowing). I realized this was a big hole in my application so I began working in a free clinic this past January when they began accepting volunteers again (they were on hold because of the pandemic and this was the soonest I could find an opportunity) and had accumulated those 100+ hours between then and June when I submitted my primary application. I am still working at the clinic, so should I reapply next year I'll have had significantly more since I've continued working there since.


Also, I really appreciate all of these responses and all of the work and time anyone dedicates outside of their regular jobs to provide insight into my situation. I'm no shining star applicant and I've likely not provided all of the details you may need to give me the kind of advice you may want to, but I didn't want to write a thread that listed everything I did to save most people time just passing through.

 

[chilly_md]

You can post a full WAMC here using the template below so we can better understand where you applied and what your actual hours looked like:

*~*~*~*IMPORTANT: How to Format Your WAMC Thread for Optimal Results and More!!*~*~*~*

Hello, and welcome to the What Are My Chances (WAMC) forum. The purpose of this forum is to Post threads about your chances of acceptance to MD and/or DO schools Have your school list critiqued and modified by other members of SDN Determine how to strengthen your current application General...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Scribing is fine. You did not fully understand the glorified shadowing comment. It is clinical employment and is a common way for applicants to gain exposure while simultaneously having a chance to essentially shadow physicians. Volunteering at a free clinic was a good idea still though to help those who are underserved.

Big downward trends in GPA can be a red flag if that applies to you.

 

[GoSpursGo]

This will likely not work. There are stories of people hiding an IA on reapplications and receiving extremely threatening letters from AMCAS telling them to change it back or not get verified.

edit: agree with LizzyM!

Just +1 to this, we explicitly got a question recently about someone who tried this (not checking the box after checking the box on a prior app cycle), and it did get flagged and they got a black mark on their app from AMCAS. It will not work.

I also don’t think an isolated mistake from 4+ years ago is solely to blame. Problem could certainly lie in the number of clinical experience hours.