Academics vs pp

[amyl]

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Just curious, who on here is academic vs pp?

 

[psychbender]

Neither, government. I guys you can call it academic, though, as we do have some surgical residents.

 

[Vaporized]

With the way things are looking with AMC and hospitals, PSH, payments system possbole changing- would y'all recommend a reliable PP job (I.e., know for sure after two years becoming partner) or go somewhere that is hospital employee with almost as good pay but less hours and already having pre op and pain services?

 

[amyl]

Partnerships are things of the past. Being a hospital employee sucks - you answer to some dip**** c mba student.

 

[IlDestriero]

I'm academic at a children's hospital.

 

[deleted171991]

"Academic" working mostly solo. 🙂

 

[Man o War]

W

 

[G-Man82]

Ending fellowship and joining an academic practice, though I did interview at both private practice and academicn anesthesia/CCM jobs. The pp jobs were all AMC. So I opted for the academic job. Seems more fair contractually even though I'm gonna get less $$ than PP.

 

[IlDestriero]

Worked PP from end of residency until now, took my buy out, and headed back to fellowship.

Just curious, buy out of the practice by an AMC or buy out of your partner share to leave and go back to fellowship? And what fellowship?

 

[sleepallday]

Anyone else feel that there are a lot of similarities between the business of academics and AMC's?

 

[urge]

Anyone else feel that there are a lot of similarities between the business of academics and AMC's?

Same business model. Crnas, or AAs, instead of residents.

Academic departments get taxed by the dean of the med school though.

 

[Mman]

Anyone else feel that there are a lot of similarities between the business of academics and AMC's?

A lot? It's basically the exact same thing. The only difference is the AMC company administrates for one and the academic department administrates for the other. The docs are all salaried in both models and supervising residents or CRNAs/AAs and making less money overall than they would in a private model at the same location.

 

[Man o War]

*

 

[IlDestriero]

A lot? It's basically the exact same thing. The only difference is the AMC company administrates for one and the academic department administrates for the other. The docs are all salaried in both models and supervising residents or CRNAs/AAs and making less money overall than they would in a private model at the same location.

I don't think it's the exact same thing. We have 2 different goals, education and research, for one thing. My group has a profit sharing/incentive compensation bonus and compensates for call.
Many academic groups are set up more like the PP model than people think.
The "administration" at the AMC is charged with maximizing profits and answers to corporate overlords. They can also cut and run if it's not going to turn around. Academic administration wants to run lean and be profitable as well, but the buck stops there, and the other non patient care goals have equal weight.

 

[Mman]

I don't think it's the exact same thing. We have 2 different goals, education and research, for one thing. My group has a profit sharing/incentive compensation bonus and compensates for call.
Many academic groups are set up more like the PP model than people think.
The "administration" at the AMC is charged with maximizing profits and answers to corporate overlords. They can also cut and run if it's not going to turn around. Academic administration wants to run lean and be profitable as well, but the buck stops there, and the other non patient care goals have equal weight.

You have different moral goals, but the business is the exact same. AMCs also have profit sharing and incentives. American Anesthesia lets each individual location keep a percentage of additional revenue they generate every year from their starting baseline and distribute it amongst themselves as they see fit. So as business grows, so does the compensation for the docs at that location.

 

[IlDestriero]

Education is part of the business.
The 3 pillars of academic medicine are Education, research and clinical care.
Drop one and you're not really an academic program anymore.
I doubt many AMCs care about anything but (profitable) clinical care. Maybe a CRNA school if that's profitable.
Do they give people time off to participate at a national level (not corporate national level...) ABA participation? Probably not.
If we give some of our income to the department, it's to support those activities, not the CEOs golf trip to St. Andrews.

 

[deleted171991]

Education is part of the business.

Many residents would disagree. 😉

 

[Mman]

Do they give people time off to participate at a national level (not corporate national level...) ABA participation? Probably not.

Yes, they do. I know of both state society presidents and ABA board examiners that work for AMCs.

 

[Twiggidy]

Private practice

 

[Ignatius J]

Private practice. Non-AMC. Partner track. Lovin' it.

 

[Direct Laryngoscopy]

PP physician only, with a good variety of cases.

 

[courtnes]

Could you include which region you are in, or would you be willing to PM me? I'd like to see where the grass is still green in terms of non-AMC PP, especially physician only, even if it may be withering. I've got a ways to go of course, but a general sense would help as I try to decide PP vs academic, physician only vs team model.

 

[Mman]

Could you include which region you are in, or would you be willing to PM me? I'd like to see where the grass is still green in terms of non-AMC PP, especially physician only, even if it may be withering. I've got a ways to go of course, but a general sense would help as I try to decide PP vs academic, physician only vs team model.

physician only is far more common on the west coast

 

[deleted162650]

physician only is far more common on the west coast

And AMC's are far less prevalent on the West Coast. . .at least for the time being. As economic pressures keep getting tighter there will be more and more incentive to switch to supervision models and AMC's may be able to gain more traction. But, it's going to take a big shift in culture/mentality to get everyone move to a supervision model out here, at least in the more urban/suburban areas where docs have spent pretty much their whole careers doing their own cases.