Accelerated BSN Program Question (Will BSN->NP goal take longer nowadays?)

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milosh94

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So I have been accepted to ABSN program for nursing. I have heard rumors in the past that they might make Nurse Practioner a doctorate only program.

Is this true? I really want to become one in the future but I am afraid I will be forced to take more years of schooling than I thought after eventually completing the BSN program.

Can somebody give me a heads up on this?

If I finish the BSN program by late 2019 and work for a year or two as a nurse, will I be eligible to become a Nurse Practioner after entering a 2 year NP program?

Or will it be extended to longer schooling by then?

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Post-BSN DNP programs are usually 3 years vs the older MSN programs which were ~2 years. There was a push for all programs to be DNPs by 2015, they missed that goal, atleast that's what it was when i was in school in 2010.

Most schools have started to switch now and if you graduated in 2019 you would probably be applying to a DNP program but there might still be a few MSN programs hanging around.
 
No, there isn’t movement on mandating holding a DNP to practice as an NP going forward. But the program you may face is that there are some schools that are transitioning their programs to offer only the DNP. That could possibly cause you to have to choose from among the many masters level Np programs that are still around. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over the DNP transition that is being suggested, because a mandate hasn’t taken hold. At the same time, I wouldn’t wait too long. You never really have any guarantees how the future will pan out. I know that when I spoke to my program about whether they were going to make the switch to only offering the DNP instead of offering bother the MNP and the DNP like they do, they gave me a very cryptic answer when I asked if they had changes planned: “we have met to discuss this, and all we can say right now is that we are offering the MNP at this time”. That’s not a good omen, but it’s been almost 3 years since I asked that, and nothing has changed. But rest assured, there will be some school out there that will still offer the MNP even after many programs have switched exclusively to the DNP, because here will be plenty of folks who see the DNP as wasted time, and will take their money with them to the schools that offer the MNP where they aren’t forced into a degree that offers them nonthijg but a waste of their time and money. The DNP does not improve clinical skills... it’s mission is something different altogether.

Separately, I wouldn’t wait two years working as a floor nurse before getting into and starting Np school. Just get started toward your ultimate goal.
 
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And I disagree with nick about most NP schools switching to the DNP. It may be safe to say that many Np schools are looking at implementing a DNP option, but they often are offered alongside the MNP. Despite what Nick says, youll be fine after 2019 finding plenty of MNP options. At first o though he was correct, then I just googled a bunch of Np programs that I could think of off the top of my head, as well as just picking a state and looking at state schools, and I had a hard time finding places that only offered a DNP. I was even surprised at how many of them didn’t even offer a DNP. So if you want to wait 2 years after getting your BSN, then that will work. I just suggest plowing through ASAP because doing that means less time soinjibg your wheels doing a job you don’t really want to do.
 
Interesting.

Well, the dilemma for me is I would rather be a nurse practitioner right away but I've heard a lot of schools typically require a year or two of nursing before applying to MSN programs.

Do you think I have a good chance to achieve the NP goal right after completing the ABSN without having to do bedside work?
 
I don’t know how many schools actually ask that. I’ve never actually seen a school website that says “you must have x number of years experience to apply”. I can’t remember if mine did specifically. The essay is often where you explain why you want to be an NP, and that’s where it shows. But you aren’t out anything for trying. To say that schools “typically require” one or two years of experience stands opposite of what I’ve seen. Maybe it used to be that way.

I think that applying the moment you graduate might deny you the opportunity to make some contacts that you can use as references, as well as not letting you get some experiences that you can draw from for your essay. 6 months could help you there. Also keep in mind though, that it may take several months for your application to be evaluated and for you to get accepted. So if you graduate in spring, you might not get a chance to start school at the school of your choice until the following year. So keep those kinds of things in mind. You don’t have to apply right after graduation, but I’d definitely be actively planning your route starting around then.
 
I don’t know how many schools actually ask that. I’ve never actually seen a school website that says “you must have x number of years experience to apply”. I can’t remember if mine did specifically. The essay is often where you explain why you want to be an NP, and that’s where it shows. But you aren’t out anything for trying. To say that schools “typically require” one or two years of experience stands opposite of what I’ve seen. Maybe it used to be that way.

I think that applying the moment you graduate might deny you the opportunity to make some contacts that you can use as references, as well as not letting you get some experiences that you can draw from for your essay. 6 months could help you there. Also keep in mind though, that it may take several months for your application to be evaluated and for you to get accepted. So if you graduate in spring, you might not get a chance to start school at the school of your choice until the following year. So keep those kinds of things in mind. You don’t have to apply right after graduation, but I’d definitely be actively planning your route starting around then.
I will graduate December 2019.

I'm assuming most NP schools start in the Fall (August) so how do you like that timing of the finish?

I'm still afraid of being screwed over and forced to finish a DNP after I'm done with this accelerated program.
 
It’s a bit complicated to suggest when to apply in a given year, mostly because each program has different deadlines and start dates. You may have to apply as early as february for a fall start date. I think the main idea to focus on is plan ahead and do reasearch for each school you are looking at.

You really don’t have to be concerned with that thought that you won’t find many MNP programs to choose from. In the near term, programs are switching over at a snails pace. It’s just too lucrative for them. People want to get MNps worse than they want their DNPs. Like I said, what I’m seeing is schools that are adding the DNP so that they can get in on being able to offer their potential students several options. Of they don’t offer MNps, students will flock to the programs that do. And if they don’t offer DNPs, the same thing will happen there. Then there are folks with MNPs that want to go back later and get their DNP, so they want to have those folks covered. It just pays to have some variety in your offering. A lot of programs have a nice mix. At the program I chose, Ive been in classes with DNPs, post grad DNPs, and masters folks, with the masters degree seekers being the largest single grouping. The moment that program changed to DNP only, they would have 3/4 fewer students. Most of the programs making the complete switch to DNP that I know of are a few state schools, and that’s because they generally are smaller, have less resources to offer broad options, and don’t feel pressure from having robust admissions numbers due to fixed budgets and mostly catering to fewer folks that usually are more local. Literally, in one of my classes, there are more Np students than in the entire Np program of a local state NP school near me that phased out their NP program a few years back. And now, the get hardly any applicants, and they aren’t very innovative. They hounded me when I made an inquiry about attending and found out from me that I had a 4.0, and I straight up told them that the thought of going to a DNP only program was a non starter for me. They actually had called me to interview me as to why I wasn’t interested in applying. Meanwhile, a new Np school opened up at a nice private university nearby as well (which doesn’t matter because they are online), and they chose to offer only the MNP, even though they have a PhD nursing degree they offer. They are taking students from all over the country, and have hoards of students trying to get in. There is just very little demand for the DNP compared to the MNP, and no school that has to look at the bottom line is willing to be the first to pull the trigger and tank the number of applicants they will get the moment that they make that change. He ones that don’t make that change will snatch up the folks like me and you that aren’t interested.

So like I said, you can wait, but I wouldn’t wait too long because it’s money out of your pocket if you do wait. But no, forcing the DNP has been a topic of concern and conversation for over a decade, and not much has changed. BUT... there is always the individual chance that a program that you would really like to go to will make the swap to only offering the DNP, so that could be a valid concern. On the whole, though, you will then go find another program that would like to have your $20k-$40k, and will give you the masters NP degree vs losing you by telling you that you simply must get your DNP if you want to go there.
 
Right now, focus on your first step, which is getting through your accelerated BSN program. Everything else will fall into place. The masters will be there when you are ready for it. And by the way, the aBSN will be the hardest step.
 
I’m a DNP/FNP. The problem isn’t if you can still get a MSN, the problem is going to the right school. The more respected not online programs I have seen start to transition to the DNP. In my state the public universities ONLY offer DNP. When you are applying for jobs the managers do care what school you go to, and you’re better off with a more respected school. You need to do your research and weigh the pro’s and con’s. I can’t give you advice on what is best for you.

I graduated as an associates RN then bridged to BSN. I think 2 years as a full time RN will be enough, at least it felt right to me. It takes time to get into a good NP program, and that should be your goal. You’ll work while in school so at the end you’ll have 4-5 years RN experience. That’s plenty. Good luck.
 
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Employers will respect your DNP so much that they will pay you the same as MNPs, because you will be able to bill the exact same as MNPs.

The more respected Np schools have not switched in droves to exclusively offering DNPs..... sigh.....

And seriously, who wants to go to a brick and mortar school for your NP? Programs that offer a 100% online education are problematic, but so many programs are hybrids where you have campus visits and immersions.

Online education is he future. That’s why you see Yale has developed a hybrid online physician assistant program that is turning out PAs with the same degree as the folks who move to campus. Complaining about online education as if there is something meritorious about driving to campus, finding parking, and sitting through static lectures (if you are lucky enough to find such a program in your town) is absurd. Online education popped up because NOBODY that is an NP candidate is willing to fruitlessly take 2 to 4 years off of a good paying job to commute to school and experience the joys that that entails, especially when they could be accomplishing the same thing online and have it fit with their life schedule. To ask anything more, or imply there is prestige associates with that is laughable. That’s nice that you may have done that iknowimnotadoctor, but you are among the rare few willing to suggest that everyone be a glutton for punishment and go through that as a barrier for entry to the profession.... yes the profession that relies on more robust numbers than PAs for our status as midlevel providers of choice. MNPs are critical for maintaining the edge we have there. If your dream of having DNPs dominate becomes reality, folks might as well just go to medical school than become an NP, because yo e will have to take 4 years to become a BSN, and then work for a while (because the Np profession has historical roots in being built up from experienced nurses.... you know... the thing that helps differentiate us from PAs), and then after that find a way to attend a brick and mortar program for 3 or more years for the DNP. Try selling that. Brick and mortar programs aren’t becoming more common, they are dying. Brick and mortar programs are converting over to online. A nearby state school that converted to DNP also changed over to exclusively online. And people aren’t applying to that program like they used to because they still don’t want a DNP along with the hefty research project that is tacked to it.
 
Employers will respect your DNP so much that they will pay you the same as MNPs, because you will be able to bill the exact same as MNPs.

The more respected Np schools have not switched in droves to exclusively offering DNPs..... sigh.....

And seriously, who wants to go to a brick and mortar school for your NP? Programs that offer a 100% online education are problematic, but so many programs are hybrids where you have campus visits and immersions.

Online education is he future. That’s why you see Yale has developed a hybrid online physician assistant program that is turning out PAs with the same degree as the folks who move to campus. Complaining about online education as if there is something meritorious about driving to campus, finding parking, and sitting through static lectures (if you are lucky enough to find such a program in your town) is absurd. Online education popped up because NOBODY that is an NP candidate is willing to fruitlessly take 2 to 4 years off of a good paying job to commute to school and experience the joys that that entails, especially when they could be accomplishing the same thing online and have it fit with their life schedule. To ask anything more, or imply there is prestige associates with that is laughable. That’s nice that you may have done that iknowimnotadoctor, but you are among the rare few willing to suggest that everyone be a glutton for punishment and go through that as a barrier for entry to the profession.... yes the profession that relies on more robust numbers than PAs for our status as midlevel providers of choice. MNPs are critical for maintaining the edge we have there. If your dream of having DNPs dominate becomes reality, folks might as well just go to medical school than become an NP, because yo e will have to take 4 years to become a BSN, and then work for a while (because the Np profession has historical roots in being built up from experienced nurses.... you know... the thing that helps differentiate us from PAs), and then after that find a way to attend a brick and mortar program for 3 or more years for the DNP. Try selling that. Brick and mortar programs aren’t becoming more common, they are dying. Brick and mortar programs are converting over to online. A nearby state school that converted to DNP also changed over to exclusively online. And people aren’t applying to that program like they used to because they still don’t want a DNP along with the hefty research project that is tacked to it.

I know NP’s who were passed over on their dream jobs because they went to a online program. You can’t argue that state schools are generally less respected than private programs. Nor can you argue what my current states schools are doing. You have a anti DNP chip on your shoulder, which is ok, the problem is when you say stuff that’s demonstrably false.
 
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I know NP’s who were passed over on their dream jobs because they went to a online program. You can’t argue that state schools are generally less respected than private programs. Nor can you argue what my current states schools are doing. You have a anti DNP chip on your shoulder, the problem is when you say stuff that’s demonstrably false.
 
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Yale.... Duke.... Case Western University..... top national schools.... private....online hybrid..... offer masters in NP. The worldwide leaders in the nursing field.

Yes....I certainly can argue that private institutions are as respected as state programs because 7 of the top ten Np programs are private, and several are online hybrid. The best you can claim as a generalization is that it’s a wash, with a slight edge towards private institutions. Those facts are demonstrably.... true.

I guess that you can argue that most of the top ten are transitioned to a DNP, but so what? We’ve gone ahead and established fully based on my evidence that a highly regarded DNP can be obtained through the magic of online delivery, so why can’t MNP continue to be delivered that way with high quality results? The answer is that it can if artificial degree creep is held at bay.

I get that there are some brands out there that I would stay away from.... Walden, Simmons, (I’ve heard there is a University of Phoenix Np program), and (I feel) Maryville, and Kaplan. I really can’t say much about these kinds of online programs because I never looked into them, but they do suggest an image of being low quality. I’d love to tell some of my friends that are considering them or are in them that they should aim for the schools with a better image. But they are also turning out folks that get jobs, and several of my friends see that too. The merits of those programs are for someone else to argue, because I’m going to an excellent program with a great name and good support, and I advocate emphatically that others do so as well. But in the event that the DNP becomes the mandated standard, then those schools that I feel are sketchy will just become DNP schools that I feel are sketchy. And will you then sleep better at night knowing that the bandwagon to churn out NPs still rolls forward, only now they offer a degree that is 40% more expensive and takes even longer? So these folks will be brand ambassadors for those who call themselves “Doctor”, and you will feel better about our professional image? I can think of no better way to destroy our field than mandating degree creep.

Look, I get it too.... you have a DNP, so therefore you think everyone else needs a DNP now that you have one in hand. Convenient. Good for you, Doctor iknowimnotadoctor. Go sell your agenda of sabatage among folks that dont take two minutes to look up the plethora of elite quality, online, masters degree programs that you claim are so rare, but are DEMONSTRABLY and inexplicably (according to you) still in existence.

Thanks for playing, Doctor. Or should I say, “thanks for playing Doctor”?
 
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Right now, focus on your first step, which is getting through your accelerated BSN program. Everything else will fall into place. The masters will be there when you are ready for it. And by the way, the aBSN will be the hardest step.
Thank youu pamac.

My other concern was, well yes, the difficulty of aBSN program. I already graduated with a superb GPA as a chemistry major, and my concern is having the ability to keep an excellent GPA in order to apply for future MSN/NP programs. My main concern here is I don't want to end up barely scraping a 3.0 GPA in a aBSN program and then having schools reject me due to having a poor GPA. Will I get some benefit of the doubt for taking an accelerated program to earn my BSN? Furthermore, I might be overthinking this but being a male, will this give me an advantage in the nursing field in terms of programs looking to expand and accept more males?

I'm one of those people who was also thinking about PA school. I would essentially start PA school when I'm done with this aBSN program assuming I apply at this very moment for PA school. I would likely finish late 2021 if I end up doing PA school at a larger cost.

I just dont want to get screwed over by potentially having an underachieving GPA/program switching to DNP/ect and preventing me from achieving the goal of becoming a NP in the future. I have about 3 weeks to decide whether to commit or not.

TLDR:

If committing to PA -> most likely wont start till August 2019/January 2020 (no guarantee as I haven't applied yet), finish late 2021/Early 2022

If committing to already accepted aBSN program -> will finish late 2019 BSN (December), likely be able to work as a RN before applying to MSN/NP school (which I would hope to start ASAP but its no guarantee as I hear you need some experience as an RN)
 
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Yale.... Duke.... Case Western University..... top national schools.... private....online hybrid..... offer masters in NP. The worldwide leaders in the nursing field.

Yes....I certainly can argue that private institutions are as respected as state programs because 7 of the top ten Np programs are private, and several are online hybrid. The best you can claim as a generalization is that it’s a wash, with a slight edge towards private institutions. Those facts are demonstrably.... true.

I guess that you can argue that most of the top ten are transitioned to a DNP, but so what? We’ve gone ahead and established fully based on my evidence that a highly regarded DNP can be obtained through the magic of online delivery, so why can’t MNP continue to be delivered that way with high quality results? The answer is that it can if artificial degree creep is held at bay.

I get that there are some brands out there that I would stay away from.... Walden, Simmons, (I’ve heard there is a University of Phoenix Np program), and (I feel) Maryville, and Kaplan. I really can’t say much about these kinds of online programs because I never looked into them, but they do suggest an image of being low quality. I’d love to tell some of my friends that are considering them or are in them that they should aim for the schools with a better image. But they are also turning out folks that get jobs, and several of my friends see that too. The merits of those programs are for someone else to argue, because I’m going to an excellent program with a great name and good support, and I advocate emphatically that others do so as well. But in the event that the DNP becomes the mandated standard, then those schools that I feel are sketchy will just become DNP schools that I feel are sketchy. And will you then sleep better at night knowing that the bandwagon to churn out NPs still rolls forward, only now they offer a degree that is 40% more expensive and takes even longer? So these folks will be brand ambassadors for those who call themselves “Doctor”, and you will feel better about our professional image? I can think of no better way to destroy our field than mandating degree creep.

Look, I get it too.... you have a DNP, so therefore you think everyone else needs a DNP now that you have one in hand. Convenient. Good for you, Doctor iknowimnotadoctor. Go sell your agenda of sabatage among folks that dont take two minutes to look up the plethora of elite quality, online, masters degree programs that you claim are so rare, but are DEMONSTRABLY and inexplicably (according to you) still in existence.

Thanks for playing, Doctor. Or should I say, “thanks for playing Doctor”?

You’re debating on a scale of Phoenix to Yale and are saying that my argument of state schools being consistently better than private is off the mark. Tell me, what percentage of NPs every year graduate from Yale versus degree mills. You even managed to throw in an insult to my education at the end there. Awesome response.
 
Thank youu pamac.

My other concern was, well yes, the difficulty of aBSN program. I already graduated with a superb GPA as a chemistry major, and my concern is having the ability to keep an excellent GPA in order to apply for future MSN/NP programs. My main concern here is I don't want to end up barely scraping a 3.0 GPA in a aBSN program and then having schools reject me due to having a poor GPA. Will I get some benefit of the doubt for taking an accelerated program to earn my BSN? Furthermore, I might be overthinking this but being a male, will this give me an advantage in the nursing field in terms of programs looking to expand and accept more males?

I'm one of those people who was also thinking about PA school. I would essentially start PA school when I'm done with this aBSN program assuming I apply at this very moment for PA school. I would likely finish late 2021 if I end up doing PA school at a larger cost.

I just dont want to get screwed over by potentially having an underachieving GPA/program switching to DNP/ect and preventing me from achieving the goal of becoming a NP in the future. I have about 3 weeks to decide whether to commit or not.

TLDR:

If committing to PA -> most likely wont start till August 2019/January 2020 (no guarantee as I haven't applied yet), finish late 2021/Early 2022

If committing to already accepted aBSN program -> will finish late 2019 BSN (December), likely be able to work as a RN before applying to MSN/NP school (which I would hope to start ASAP but its no guarantee as I hear you need some experience as an RN)

If you’re going to nursing school I am confused about your interest for PA school. The end game for the NP is superior to that of PA, even if the initial education isn’t always quite as robust. If you have a superb GPA as a chemistry graduate you have nothing to worry about in any level of nursing.

Concerning the DNP, is one extra year in school a world shattering event, or do you just want to be done all at once and never have to go back, with the option of sliding seamlessly into academia a constant viable career. Only you can make that call, either way, MSN or DNP, you’ll be fine. For what it’s worth, I don’t regret a minute of my DNP nor do any of my classmates. Good luck with your decisions.
 
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You’re debating on a scale of Phoenix to Yale and are saying that my argument of state schools being consistently better than private is off the mark. Tell me, what percentage of NPs every year graduate from Yale versus degree mills. You even managed to throw in an insult to my education at the end there. Awesome response.

I guess I overshot by shutting you down on every level that you presented, and this taking place after you accused me of dishonesty. Let’s stick to the topic and let this sink in before you try to get off track.

To recap, you took the position that private schools weren’t as well regarded as public, and I showed that the majority of the top schools were private. You said that online schools weren’t highly regarded compared to brick and mortar programs, and I showed that many of the top schools were themselves online. You said the masters programs were vanishing (to the point where the OP wouldn’t be able to find any good schools offering it), and I demonstrated that the top schools had plenty of masters programs among them. Over the course of several examples of top schools, I even showed that one could find that the top school in existence was a private, online, masters degree offering program... something you suggest is akin to a unicorn in scarcity.

Stop leading the OP astray with your OPINIONS on what you hope to see take place in the educational landscape. This is the OPs future we are taking about, and you keep trying to get the last word in that is completely and utterly tied to YOUR AGENDA. You are hardly focused on his best interests, as demonstrated by disregarding what he has stated as HIS desires. It may be that the DNP you earned was lacking in with regard to recognizing autonomy of other people. Get the hint that not everyone wants to choose the option to do extra research in order to go and make lives better in the field. What you see as career enhancement is at many levels indentured servitiude, and at worse, affects lives by delaying providers from getting into the field, all for the sake of gaining supposed skills that are not directly tied to enhanced clinical abilities.

You are suffering from delusions of adequacy in regard to your arguments. Maybe just stop digging and see things from a perspective that isn’t tied to advocating for forcing something down someone’s throat when they want no part of it.
 
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I guess I overshot by shutting you down on every level that you presented, and this taking place after you accused me of dishonesty. Let’s stick to the topic and let this sink in before you try to get off track.

To recap, you took the position that private schools weren’t as well regarded as public, and I showed that the majority of the top schools were private. You said that online schools weren’t highly regarded compared to brick and mortar programs, and I showed that many of the top schools were themselves online. You said the masters programs were vanishing (to the point where the OP wouldn’t be able to find any good schools offering it), and I demonstrated that the top schools had plenty of masters programs among them. Over the course of several examples of top schools, I even showed that one could find that the top school in existence was a private, online, masters degree offering program... something you suggest is akin to a unicorn in scarcity.

Stop leading the OP astray with your OPINIONS on what you hope to see take place in the educational landscape. This is the OPs future we are taking about, and you keep trying to get the last word in that is completely and utterly tied to YOUR AGENDA. You are hardly focused on his best interests, as demonstrated by disregarding what he has stated as HIS desires. It may be that the DNP you earned was lacking in with regard to recognizing autonomy of other people. Get the hint that not everyone wants to choose the option to do extra research in order to go and make lives better in the field. What you see as career enhancement is at many levels indentured servitiude, and at worse, affects lives by delaying providers from getting into the field, all for the sake of gaining supposed skills that are not directly tied to enhanced clinical abilities.

You are suffering from delusions of adequacy in regard to your arguments. Maybe just stop digging and see things from a perspective that isn’t tied to advocating for forcing something down someone’s throat when they want no part of it.

I wouldn't need to advocate for the DNP if you weren't making it very plain that getting a DNP would leave a NP student "haunted" and "spinning their wheels" while they regret their decision day in and day out. Its completely false. This is about the OP's future, and you are painting the DNP with an unfair brush, which is why I keep responding.

State schools as a whole provide more consistent education based on their not for profit model and their longevity and institutional draw. They have better professors, better researchers (I went to an R1 college) and more support as a whole. Does that mean that ALL state schools are better than ALL private schools, of course not, as you pointed out some of the best schools in the country are private. However, you wont find a public university with a reputation like Walden, Simmons, Phoenix, DeVry, Capella, Kaplan, ect ect for dozens more. That's why a safe bet is giving the advice I was given when I decided to go to graduate school; go to a public university with a good reputation that people have heard of.

I'm sure many private colleges provide excellent online NP educations, but I will now and forever argue with you if you think that you get as good of an education in your pajamas with Netflix on in the background as you do with a PhD nurse explaining the content you need to know with ample opportunity for questions and give and take in a class size of 10-15 students, which is what my program was. About a third of my lectures were given by MD/DO's who specialized in the field they were lecturing about. My pharm class was given by a PharmD who brought in one of the medical directors for Merck to lecture on the process for FDA drug approval. The examples I can give go on and on. In my state, those public universities with everything I just mentioned require a DNP, which is why I was leading the OP in that direction.

We aren't going to agree on this, but with respect, I strongly feel you are either being dishonest with the OP, or, more likely, you are being dishonest with yourself.
 
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At my program, the difference between the DNP and the MNP is almost double, and adds at least an additional year and a half to the length of the program. Maybe that doesn’t sound like much, but in monetary terms it is around $45,000 more in tuition, on top of the masters degree tuition of close to $50k. Factor in the difference in salary from what one would make during that MINIMUM of 1.5 years as an NP vs what I make now.... which would be at least another $55,000. So while not being earth shattering to do a DNP vs an MNP, I could easily calculate that the difference in cost would be at least $100,000.... all for a pathway that offers me no more salary upon graduation. It offers you no more than that as well and if you say it does, I can clearly call Bs on you, because nowhere will you find anyone on forums that says that it works out that way for all but a handful of DNP holders.


So no, $100,000 might not be earth shattering, but I’d rather have the things that I could buy with $100,000 more in the bank vs the self satisfied sensation that might come from obtaining a DNP. But wait! Just the other day my DNP seeking friend had to extend the project, like many folks do, and obtaining their DNP, (as well as being able to practice in the field as an NP), was was now going to have to wait until the DNP project was finished. All this through no fault of their own.


If you and your peers are interested in that, then opt for it. Other folks want to see patients and save lives. If NPs want to pursue that after they start practicing, as an avenue for professional satisfaction, more power to them, but don’t insist that it be the threshold for entry.


So you asked earlier how many online programs are like Yale’s vs how many are more like University of Phoenix. I’ll pose the question right back at you, and ask how many universities DNP programs are like yours, where you sit like story time like dead poets society, at an R1 university, in small groups of 10, asking questions of the pre eminent adjuncts in the land? How many state schools have Merck directors come in and chat about something that has little to do with the advanced practice nursing profession? Ask any Caribbean educated MD that you will work for if they acknowledge much of the prestige you claim. As remarkable as it sounds to YOU that you hiked in to campus for a scheduled lecture while I watched mine at 1 in the morning from no less eminent of experts as you claim, I think that only you are more impressed than anyone else at what you feel you accomplished there.

Congratulations, you may now qualify for the vow of poverty that comes with being able to be one of the adjunct DNPs making lecture videos at universities when clinical practice proves too much for you.
 
At my program, the difference between the DNP and the MNP is almost double, and adds at least an additional year and a half to the length of the program. Maybe that doesn’t sound like much, but in monetary terms it is around $45,000 more in tuition, on top of the masters degree tuition of close to $50k. Factor in the difference in salary from what one would make during that MINIMUM of 1.5 years as an NP vs what I make now.... which would be at least another $55,000. So while not being earth shattering to do a DNP vs an MNP, I could easily calculate that the difference in cost would be at least $100,000.... all for a pathway that offers me no more salary upon graduation. It offers you no more than that as well and if you say it does, I can clearly call Bs on you, because nowhere will you find anyone on forums that says that it works out that way for all but a handful of DNP holders.


So no, $100,000 might not be earth shattering, but I’d rather have the things that I could buy with $100,000 more in the bank vs the self satisfied sensation that might come from obtaining a DNP. But wait! Just the other day my DNP seeking friend had to extend the project, like many folks do, and obtaining their DNP, (as well as being able to practice in the field as an NP), was was now going to have to wait until the DNP project was finished. All this through no fault of their own.


If you and your peers are interested in that, then opt for it. Other folks want to see patients and save lives. If NPs want to pursue that after they start practicing, as an avenue for professional satisfaction, more power to them, but don’t insist that it be the threshold for entry.


So you asked earlier how many online programs are like Yale’s vs how many are more like University of Phoenix. I’ll pose the question right back at you, and ask how many universities DNP programs are like yours, where you sit like story time like dead poets society, at an R1 university, in small groups of 10, asking questions of the pre eminent adjuncts in the land? How many state schools have Merck directors come in and chat about something that has little to do with the advanced practice nursing profession? Ask any Caribbean educated MD that you will work for if they acknowledge much of the prestige you claim. As remarkable as it sounds to YOU that you hiked in to campus for a scheduled lecture while I watched mine at 1 in the morning from no less eminent of experts as you claim, I think that only you are more impressed than anyone else at what you feel you accomplished there.

Congratulations, you may now qualify for the vow of poverty that comes with being able to be one of the adjunct DNPs making lecture videos at universities when clinical practice proves too much for you.

The first half of what you said is true, the opportunity costs versus the extra year in school is something the OP needs to decide for himself. I'm sure he's smart enough to figure it out though.

The second half of your post just reeks of whataboutism. Poll everyone on SDN, find how many posters think an all online education provides the same rigor of an in person well respected university. I'm not saying you're not getting a good education from a good school, I AM saying that most people would agree brick and mortar public universities are more consistently solid than online private for profit universities. So if this is still on the rails of trying to give the aspiring NP good advice, you're in the minority. As I said, a friend of mine didn't get the job he wanted due to the online school he attended. Hiring managers DO care where a person went to school, deny it all you want.
 
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You are disregarding what I said about the afore mentioned for profit universities. I made it pretty clear. I don’t know where you get the idea that I’m Gung Ho about them. One of the issues that stands in the way of us seeing eye to eye on many topics is your insistence on painting things with a broad brush, and it resulted in you getting called out on most of it tit for tat. Yes, I will agree that we have plenty of online offenders in the Np education industry. But we have a ton of good programs as well, and the trend there for online delivery is only set to increase, DNP or not. Yes, the DNP has a prominent place in advancing the profession, and I’ve explained the virtues of it in the past to doubters (even among nurses) who didn’t grasp the purpose of it. But it’s a step too far to suggest it’s a handy one size fits all solution for someone who really doesn’t want to tack it on to their education at this time. The OP has legitimate concerns, and they deserve merit.
 
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So aside from the conversation where iknowimnotadoctor is touting the virtues of a DNP at a renowned R1 university, I think he might still agree with me that the accelerated BSN can be a very wise investment in your future. I qualify that by saying that I think it diminishes in value a bit with the greater the cost of the program. For instance, an accelerated BSN that costs $25,000 is a far better opportunity and value than one that costs $80,000. My hope is that you are in a program that is on the cheaper side, and if you are, then yes, you should pursue that first and foremost.


As far as PA goes, I think that if one has an Rn, then one is spectacularly better served by going in to NP school than going to PA school. I’ve spoken a lot on here about why that is, but in essence, my take on it has to do with the fact that NP is its own profession, and not a subset of physicians. The NP field chooses its own destiny (and unfortunately for that we see the silliness of the DNP universally advocated by folks like iknowimnotadoctor). But, that’s far better for us to have those kinds of polite conversations amongst ourselves than it is to be intimately tied to the whims of what physicians would have us do to better serve them. So basically I’m saying, if you do a BSN, then it’s far more beneficial for you to get the NP and have a shot at being independent. It means more respect (even if the respect is given begrudgingly), more freedom, and more potential for fair wages.


I think that academically, if you can handle being a chemistry major, then you have more potential to do well in nursing school than most other nursing students, because chemistry is demanding, and few nursing majors face coursework at that level of academic rigor. You know what hard classes are. What you will find in nursing school is some professors who are difficult to get along with, terrified peers, a mentality of faculty trying to weed people out arbitrarily, and even in house stress passed down upon students from warring factions within the employees directing the program. It’s a trip. But it’s doable. And Np schools really aren’t tremendously picky about who they take. The thing about RN school is that most fail you out of you get below a 75%, so you end up working pretty hard to stay well above that, and that leads to being rewarded with decent grades. Some semesters you really don’t know where you stand with your grade until near the end of the course, so you end up putting in a lot of effort to not fall short... and it eventually works out well for you. Don’t worry about that too much.


About the MNP.... so if you get accepted to a masters program, then if they decide at some point to make the school into a DNP, I would be shocked if they said to you “I know you were accepted with the understanding that you’d get a masters, but now you have to get a DNP”. That would be changing the rules in the middle of the game, and the scenario that would happen instead is that the would let you and your class finish under the rules you signed up under. Everyone else after that point would have to get the DNP. That’s how things have been going for the programs that have made the complete switch to DNP from masters. The folks already working on the masters get to finish the masters. I think that’s what you are worrying about. So come 2020, just find an MNP program and jump in, and you should be covered. Iknowimnotadoctor probably could offer a decent guess as to whether this would be the case.


Again, I feel like if the accelerated BSN is the right price, then it really is an amazing return in your investment, especially given that it’s only one year of your time. Once you have that RN, you have a great paying job waiting for you, a lot of mobility, and access to a really good avenue for advancement to the coveted profession on NP, which itself has tremendous benefits. I’d take that opportunity.


How much is your program?
 
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All this fussing, reason #219 of why I just went to medical school, lol. We're all nurses. We each have our own path. No one is better than the other as long as it serves that individual person's life goals and professional aspirations.

It's all good yall. Calm down. :zip:
 
All this fussing, reason #219 of why I just went to medical school, lol. We're all nurses. We each have our own path. No one is better than the other as long as it serves that individual person's life goals and professional aspirations.

It's all good yall. Calm down. :zip:

Physicians don’t “fuss”? ;)
 
Physicians are in a tough situation for the most part. The industry is changing like everything else in society. I think the old model of them having heir own practices is going to go away simply due to fundamental changes that are similar to what many businesses are facing. Technology makes things more efficient, which one would think would help foster the little guy, but it’s hard to compete when the bigger entities have more of it.


I don’t think NPs are going to take much away from physicians that isn’t already headed out the door. But I do think that the NP world has one thing going for it right now if they don’t screw it up, and that is numbers. Now isn’t the time to tighten the screws on the workforce by mandating the DNP. Almost as many NPs graduate every year as physicians. I actually think it helps NPs leverage to have different avenues for entry. With that comes some avenues that we might not be thrilled with, but a better way to handle it is to take aim at them in a case by case basis. But arguing against online instruction isn’t going to score points anymore in a world where we date online, pay bills online, see the doc in the box online, perform surgery online with robots, attend meetings online, telecommute, visit grandma and grampa online, shop online, troll politicians online, etc. When Yale opened up its online PA school, it killed one of the most potent cases PAs always used against NPs, and they will never win another argument by yelling about ,”online NP programs”. Online is the future, and it’s cost effective as can be.
 
I think he might still agree with me that the accelerated BSN can be a very wise investment in your future. I qualify that by saying that I think it diminishes in value a bit with the greater the cost of the program. For instance, an accelerated BSN that costs $25,000 is a far better opportunity and value than one that costs $80,000. My hope is that you are in a program that is on the cheaper side, and if you are, then yes, you should pursue that first and foremost.


So basically I’m saying, if you do a BSN, then it’s far more beneficial for you to get the NP and have a shot at being independent. It means more respect (even if the respect is given begrudgingly), more freedom, and more potential for fair wages.


I think that academically, if you can handle being a chemistry major, then you have more potential to do well in nursing school than most other nursing students, because chemistry is demanding, and few nursing majors face coursework at that level of academic rigor. You know what hard classes are. What you will find in nursing school is some professors who are difficult to get along with, terrified peers, a mentality of faculty trying to weed people out arbitrarily, and even in house stress passed down upon students from warring factions within the employees directing the program. It’s a trip. But it’s doable. And Np schools really aren’t tremendously picky about who they take. The thing about RN school is that most fail you out of you get below a 75%, so you end up working pretty hard to stay well above that, and that leads to being rewarded with decent grades. Some semesters you really don’t know where you stand with your grade until near the end of the course, so you end up putting in a lot of effort to not fall short... and it eventually works out well for you. Don’t worry about that too much.


About the MNP.... so if you get accepted to a masters program, then if they decide at some point to make the school into a DNP, I would be shocked if they said to you “I know you were accepted with the understanding that you’d get a masters, but now you have to get a DNP”. That would be changing the rules in the middle of the game, and the scenario that would happen instead is that the would let you and your class finish under the rules you signed up under.


Again, I feel like if the accelerated BSN is the right price, then it really is an amazing return in your investment, especially given that it’s only one year of your time. Once you have that RN, you have a great paying job waiting for you, a lot of mobility, and access to a really good avenue for advancement to the coveted profession on NP, which itself has tremendous benefits. I’d take that opportunity.


How much is your program?
Thank you again.

The program I am in I would say is a middle of the pack nursing school, apparently it was very difficult to get in and you would need a great GPA in order to be eligible to make it. The nursing exam is at a high passing rate from former graduates. Again, I was a chemistry major and had very tough semesters which I adapted very well and succeeded. I'm hoping I can adapt the same way in this accelerated program and do very well although the grading scale seems very weird (I forgot exactly the specific scale, but you need like a 85% for a B and a 93% for an A), anything under is a C which has actually shocked me quite a bit and I'm hoping I can earn nothing but A's or B's. I'm not going to lie, but that has definitely made me more doubtful as it seems harder with an accelerated program added to that fact.

In terms of pricing, it will most likely cost me $15,000 total tuition to complete the aBSN. If I decided to do PA instead, it would most likely cost 80,000-90,000$ overall in 2 years. So in terms of PA, even if I do complete a program in 27 months, I will technically be working a year for paying off the debt. So I would most likely be debt free late 2022, early 2023.



So my main concerns once again
1) Questioning my ability to complete the program with As/Bs (good GPA) due to bumped grading scale to make it easier to enter a MSN/NP program in the future. I understand I did very well in my previous major with very difficult courses but the scale has me iffy
2) Questioning how fast I can apply to a MSN/NP program after I complete the program in late 2019 (December), I'm hoping I can apply in January for a NP program for the following August while working as a RN throughout. If I am able to do that, I would finish May 2022.

So, technically it does seem like the NP is more efficient route in terms of independence (more respect) and tuition. But it also seems like there might be more obstacles to overcome and less of a guarantee in the path towards it. Like I stated previously, I've heard some programs won't allow you in the MSN/NP program unless you have 1-2 years experience as a RN. I want to avoid the DNP route at all costs (only because I want to get done as soon as possible and believe 2 years would be enough). It might sound selfish of me to say that but I hope you understand the fact that I worked hard for a difficult degree already and I feel it hasn't been satisfying enough for me in terms of salary/job opportunities. I just want to get a stable job as soon as possible and I see myself much better suited as a NP rather than a RN as I've shadowed both.
 
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Any final opinions as I head into my first week of classes after my last post?
 
Any final opinions as I head into my first week of classes after my last post?

NCLEX, which is what you should be studying for day one of school until passing the exam, is about choosing the *best* answer not the *correct* answer; often there are 3 correct answers, but only one is the best answer. Nursing exams are very strange animals. You will just need to adjust to the nursing exam questions and you will do fine. Focus on that. There's a app called RN Mentor that gives you NCLEX style questions with rationales. It's like 20 bucks, and well worth every penny. Good luck.
 
I’ll cover some points....


First, $15,000 for an accelerated BSN is a steal. I can confidently say that you will get more of a return on your investment dollar for dollar than any other $15,000 you could spend on education, hands down. The moment you are done and pass your NCLEx, you can get a job anywhere in the country, and make a wage that will allow you to live well, provided that you don’t have a bunch of other liabilities to pay down. But even then, what other program dollar for dollar would do that for you? So congratulations on that. And you set yourself up for another bargain program, NP, which is always ranked high for pay and satisfaction.


You will do fine in your accelerated program. You were a hard science degree holder, just apply that same work ethic and you will do fine. Don’t worry about the grading tier being new to you. That’s how grad school is. Even in my Associates degree nursing program, and most others I know of, anything less than 75% fails you. That’s just how it is. They don’t want folks touching patients with less than that. In my program, you had to average above 75 on your class grades, as well as your test scores. If either dipped lower, the other average couldn’t bring you up. That made it even more dangerous because you had to do well in class and on tests. And that was a community college program. But you’ll do fine.


You’ll do well enough to get into the Np programs you want to get into. You won’t get bad grades because (as I said before) it’s just easier to study a little bit harder and get decent grades than to deal with the pressure of having your grades close to the failing line. So you will step up and make it happen. And even though it’s accelerated, it’s not tremendously hard to get through a nursing program. The biggest hurdles are people who have poor work ethic (which you don’t), emotional issues that get the best of them, unrealistic expectations of the program allowing them to screw around and not be accountable, or attitude issues (getting into battles with faculty). The only folks in my associates program that struggled were people that frankly though they were smarter than everyone else (mostly the professors), and were too proud to adapt. One guy almost got drummed out because he was just a pain in the butt and would argue with the professors about what he felt they should be doing. He though it was beneath him to just shut up. Instead of studying harder to do better on tests, he would make a huge case about one or two questions that he felt were misleading, and later in when he needed a favor, nobody would give him one because he made them all mad. Then there were the folks that thought they could be late all the time, or have a family thing every week that interfered with their schedule. Go figure, these same people are not dependable workers even today. Many have jumped around to a bunch of different jobs. Always going on Facebook and complaining about how the world is against them, or commenting about how things would be perfect if not for people not being reasonable. So there you go... that’s how you fail nursing school. It’s similar to failing at life in general. Incidentally, nobody failed in my class, despite many of them being among life’s malcontents.


Financially, after you get your ABSN, you will then be able to work while in NP school, making this pathway even more worthwhile. I’ve run the numbers here a lot, but think of the savings. Les calculate things and not include taxes... we will stick to raw numbers:


Your first year of ABSN you will pay $15,000 plus living expenses. Say it costs you $30,000 to live while going to ABSN school. Your first year is $45,000. Then you start working as an RN for maybe $65,000. So for the next two years while you do NP school and work, you make $65,000 x 2 years. That’s $130,000. Subtract the $45,000 for your year of ABSN, and you are at $85,000.... and debt free. If you go to an Np school that costs what the average school costs, then you pay the school $35,000. So you are now at $50,000 in the bank. You start year of your journey as an NP making $100,000. Then at the end of year 5, you have $250,000 (because that’s the end of your second year as an NP). So... five years from the start of your hypothetical BSN, you are $250,000 ahead.


Now imagine PA school:


You go through 2 years of PA school, and you can’t work during school. 2 years of tuition ($90,000), and 2 years living expenses ($30,000 per year x2) puts you at -$150,000 in the hole. Year 3, 4, and 5 gets you income of $100,000 x3 years as you work as a PA.That comes to $300,000. Pay back the $150,000, and you are at $150,000 ahead. But in the end, you are $100,000 ahead by doing NP school. That’s just the raw numbers. So that’s a solid approach you are taking.


The DNP isn’t going to be rammed down your throat, so don’t worry about that. And there are masters NP programs that will take you soon after graduating, so don’t worry much about any requirements to have 2 years minimum experience. You will find what you are looking for.


I’d be excited. Best advice I could give you is to simply live in the moment be enjoy nursing school and the journey. Take it one chunk at a time. I don’t know exactly what I can suggest to make it easier, but I can say that if you treat the whole process as a means to an end, it will make it less enjoyable. Be proud to get into ABSN school, proud to graduate, proud to be a nurse, proud to get into NP school, and proud to become an NP. Each of those points as an accomplishment, and treat it like you respect each stage. It will seem like a chore if you just look at each as a mere stepping stone. Each phase is hard enough that you will need that motivation to move up the chain. It really has to be enjoyed as you go or you won’t be satisfied.
 
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