Accepted with sub-par academic record

[flaahless]

I think that a good rule of thumb is to know what kind of doctor you want to be and know what schools would fit you best. People that do well in interviews are those that treat the application process like they treat their classwork. If you're geared towards research, then highlight the research aspect of your ECs. If you're jazzed by working with an underserved community (maybe ever your hometown), talk about that.

In an interview, you're always given a chance to introduce yourself. In your personal statements, you can elaborate on what your goals are. Take advantage of the opportunity given to you to explain why you want to be a doctor.

Most doctors are coming in with the same sets of scores. Those students with exceptional scores will walk into an early decision program. Those students with lower scores are accepted based on their story. If you tell your story to the right people (those schools that are looking for candidates like you), then you'll get accepted.

How do you find out? Ask people in your school's Pre-Prof office. Call schools' admissions offices and ask them. Before you even send in your AMCAS, spend $20 on phone calls and get the answers you need to make the best list of schools possible.

Kinda general, but still great advice.

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[scarletgirl777]

To really get anything of value out of the AAMC stats for yourself, you need to look at the subset you belong in...if you are a URM, then those averages and medians will matter more to you than the aggregate data...same thing with other races...

Then, consider your state of residence. What are the acceptance stats like at your state school? If you live in, say, Louisiana, they are quite a bit lower than what is required in neighboring Texas...not to mention what the poor slobs in California face in terms of instate competition...

Thus, racial identity and state residency explain a lot of the downside variability on MCAT and GPA...there are other factors, of course, but if you are trying to understand how applicants with below average MCAT and GPA get admitted, look at the data subsets and consider the differences in competition between states.

To any URMs reading this: please take this with a grain of salt. Different schools care more or less about affirmative action, and so it's hard to extrapolate from that data. If you are Hispanic but not Mexican or Puerto Rican, some schools will look at that favorably and some will not. If you are Black, a good number of those datapoints are students at Howard, Meharry, and Morehouse. Better to be safe than sorry and look at the average data for all applicants.

 

[amakhosidlo]

amakhosidlo, and anyone else: how does your X-factor/notable experiences get you in the door when the first screens that take place are based on numbers? when does someone first read your PS?

I think it depends on the school. You'll know you got screened when you get a pre-secondary rejection, obviously (unless it's a school that likes your money more than it likes pre-screening...). What I've heard of people doing, and even had suggested to me by the director of admissions at my school, is to send a polite and humble petition to the school in question explaining that you think you were screened prematurely, and requesting an additional manual review. Adcom members are human, and realize that computers lack any degree of reasonable discretion.

The worst that can happen is they throw the letter in the trash, best case they actually open your non-descript manilla folder and see what you were talking about...

 

[bfreefasho]

sure, i think we all know it's not purely numbers that get you in; it's also not just "high numbers, volunteering, research, clinical" either. the "x factor" is what determines who gets picked out of ALL the highly qualified applicants who have achieved these.

but i want to know about SPECIFIC occasions in which the LOW numbers did not hold someone back (thanks armybound, dally, and han).

amakhosidlo, and anyone else: how does your X-factor/notable experiences get you in the door when the first screens that take place are based on numbers? when does someone first read your PS?

I applied to 12 schools with a 3.05 cum, 2.97 BCPM, 28O MCAT. 7 Interviews so far, two acceptances (University of Louisville, Howard), 2 waitlists, 3 schools I haven't heard from yet. I received a full scholarship to University of Louisville. It can be done, but you have to have a strategy.

Take a look at my MDapps. You will see what will happen if you try to take upper level classes only to impress admissions committees. I am done with the process (Finally!) and can say that the admissions committee briefly screens the applications before they decide to give you an interview. They are not looking over every class, but rather looking at the overall BCPM and cum GPAs. If they look at individual classes, they look at the individual grades, not so much at the title of the class. So it is to your advantage to take the classes that you can do well in and boost that BCPM GPA. However, I do agree with taking research for credit.

If your goal is to stand out in the admissions process, I suggest identifying an overall theme about YOURSELF, not your grades or academic record. This could be a challenge you've overcame and how it relates to your determination, or the reason why you want to pursue medicine and how that has influenced your path (research, traveling abroad, extracurriculars, etc). You then need to push this agenda every time you can--in the personal statement, the secondaries, the interviews. Everything you write or say needs to tie back to your overall theme.

This is how you get into medical school. Not by taking extra difficult classes for no other reason but to impress committees. Standing out by taking hard classes is based on the assumption of a normally distributed applicant pool--meaning people with Fs, Ds, Cs, Bs, As, taking both challenging and easy classes, and people who have many extracurriculars and none at all applying. This, however, is not the case. Most people applying to medical school have higher GPAs and standardized test scores than other college students, so the applicant pool is highly skewed. You will find that the majority of the applicant pool has taken "hard classes" as well, so in the end you would look average anyway.

 

[What up doc]

bingo

yup....in fact, i would suggest that that is a key skill to have in life overall. you gotta know yourself. know your strengths. know your weaknesses. know how to adress them and know how to highlight what you bring to the table...in my process of preparing for interviews i go over just abot any and everything ive ever done and think of ways i can discuss how it makes me unique and how i can contribute to the medical school class....i interviewed with THE dean of admisions at a top 3 med skool and he said hed been in the business for over 30+ years....can you imagine??? i imagine that he has seen and heard EVERYTHING! with that said, dont be so worried about doing or being something that has never been done...odds are, if youve done it, theyve seen it before. instead, think of ways to highlight what your unique experiences have done to you as a person and how you have grown and learned from them. but most important, be cool. you gotta know how to make ppl like you. i feel like this is a skill that one is born with, but can be learned and practiced. it has to be natural, though. so if youre not already skilled at giving first impressions, you probably need much more practice in REAL LIFE situations.

I applied to 12 schools with a 3.05 cum, 2.97 BCPM, 28O MCAT. 7 Interviews so far, two acceptances (University of Louisville, Howard), 2 waitlists, 3 schools I haven't heard from yet. I received a full scholarship to University of Louisville. It can be done, but you have to have a strategy.

Take a look at my MDapps. You will see what will happen if you try to take upper level classes only to impress admissions committees. I am done with the process (Finally!) and can say that the admissions committee briefly screens the applications before they decide to give you an interview. They are not looking over every class, but rather looking at the overall BCPM and cum GPAs. If they look at individual classes, they look at the individual grades, not so much at the title of the class. So it is to your advantage to take the classes that you can do well in and boost that BCPM GPA. However, I do agree with taking research for credit.

If your goal is to stand out in the admissions process, I suggest identifying an overall theme about YOURSELF, not your grades or academic record. This could be a challenge you've overcame and how it relates to your determination, or the reason why you want to pursue medicine and how that has influenced your path (research, traveling abroad, extracurriculars, etc). You then need to push this agenda every time you can--in the personal statement, the secondaries, the interviews. Everything you write or say needs to tie back to your overall theme.

This is how you get into medical school. Not by taking extra difficult classes for no other reason but to impress committees. Standing out by taking hard classes is based on the assumption of a normally distributed applicant pool--meaning people with Fs, Ds, Cs, Bs, As, taking both challenging and easy classes, and people who have many extracurriculars and none at all applying. This, however, is not the case. Most people applying to medical school have higher GPAs and standardized test scores than other college students, so the applicant pool is highly skewed. You will find that the majority of the applicant pool has taken "hard classes" as well, so in the end you would look average anyway.

i agree and disagree with you.

i agree that you should take classes to boost your BCPM. the name of a class does not determine its difficulty. if you can get an A in plant science take it. astronomy, A? take it. intro phisio? A? even better...take it. load up on classes you can get A's in. not only will you have a nice BCPM, but you never know what you will learn in a class and what skill you can take away from it. i took a BS class this semester that i took for an easy A, but it ended up helping me strike an interesting conversation in an interview because in the class i had learned about the fundamentals of ethics in professionalism (justice, non-malifience blah blah blah) and my interviewer was very impressed.

but then i dont agree with you about not taking hard classes. if you can take hard classes and get A's. DO IT. no, adcoms arent gonna piss their pants bcuz u took quantum mechanics or watever. but it is just another card to have in your deck and you never know when you will be able to play it. i will be getting a liberal arts degree and i had an interviewer who was interested in why i took some upper division math courses. i did well in these courses and he was impressed. mission accomplished. so i repeat, if you can take hard classes and get A's do it.

so to summarize: succesful applicants can sell themselves and are likeable and have convinced the adcomm (despite their perhaps flawed academic record) that they can handle the rigors of medical school. if you can do this, i would guess that you will get an MD acceptance.

if not, well, there is always dental school (puts on flamesuit )

 

[scarletgirl777]

If your goal is to stand out in the admissions process, I suggest identifying an overall theme about YOURSELF, not your grades or academic record. This could be a challenge you've overcame and how it relates to your determination, or the reason why you want to pursue medicine and how that has influenced your path (research, traveling abroad, extracurriculars, etc). You then need to push this agenda every time you can--in the personal statement, the secondaries, the interviews. Everything you write or say needs to tie back to your overall theme.
.

So true. They need a reason to remember you and understand why you're different. A high GPA just isn't different--you can't be carried on that alone. I think that people with average or low GPAs or more likely to understand that because they NEED to compensate, but for some reason people with 3.9s think that's enough to get into a top 10 school. I really don't understand that reasoning.

 

[cbrons]

I'm going to check URM because badasses like me a under-represented in medicine I think this will go over well, what do you guys think?

 

[Pedsbro]

So true. They need a reason to remember you and understand why you're different. A high GPA just isn't different--you can't be carried on that alone. I think that people with average or low GPAs or more likely to understand that because they NEED to compensate, but for some reason people with 3.9s think that's enough to get into a top 10 school. I really don't understand that reasoning.

So true... That's what I had to do. No GPA will make you stand out, and any MCAT score below 40 probably won't either. It's all about the non-number, non-fluff factors that makes them remember you...a life story or event, an EC, some amazing research where you actually did something significant, being non-trad and/or the reason you became interested in medicine, and clinical/work/educational experiences, etc etc.

 

[thiems]

A little less than half of the people accepted have below average stats. Just be personable and be able to explain why you want to be a doctor. Have an opinion on everything and be cool, calm, and collected.

 

[WannaBePreMed]

bump

 

[sidalexis]

OP, you were looking for specific examples. I have stats much lower than I care to discuss but I have yet to be rejected or wait-listed following an interview. While I don't know exactly why because I'm not in the admissions room, I can say that interviewers have commented on my personal statement, my out-of-whack EC's, and candor. I think that selling yourself requires being yourself and being comfortable and confident in who you are regardless of whether you think you fit with the school. I think that getting this across in your PS, and more importantly in your interview is one of the best things you can do for yourself.

Specific example: I was never afraid to discuss my weakness in an interview. I embrace them because they make me a person. Like you seem to understand, we're not robots. Nor should we try to be.

 

[littlealex]

A lot of people have lower scores but also have a lot more life experience than the typical premed. If you have a convincing case, schools are often willing to take a chance on you.
Schools look at the "distance traveled" when they judge your scores. If you had to work 2 jobs, take care of your family, and still got a 3.3GPA, that carries a lot more weight than the trust fund baby getting a gentleman's 3.3.

 

[hoya09]

I think the X factor played a considerable role for me. My grades were below average (see MDapps), but I spoke passionately about my experiences. Some schools took interest and others didn't, but I ultimately gained acceptance on my first interview (OOS). I believe that this was mostly based on a good fit between my 'X-factor' and their overall mission. It certainly wasn't easy applying with a subpar GPA and I definitely wouldn't recommend it- but it ended well for me. I couldn't be happier with my school.

 

[Superman78]

It's a combination of great and unique EC's and having the likability and charisma of an actor or seasoned politician during the interview, which masks the fact that they are essentially really good salesmen making a pitch for themselves. Upward GPA trends also help a lot.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

i think the comments about being passionate, genuine, a good fit for the school, and developing a memorable theme are relevant and can make a big impact.

thanks for the personal stories, sidalexis and hoya. anyone else care to share?