ACGME & AOA Move Toward a Single Match

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Haha haters, now here come the gunner, neurotic students who solely want to pursue the MD instead of the DO.
 
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I wonder how many decades this will take. Get it over with and combine MD/DO degree and USMLE/COMLEX exams.
 
BTW, it looks like in March of 2015, there may just be one match. All under ACGME accreditation.

So, let me ask, how many of you will forgo Primary care residencies (if that's not what you want), and aim for previously AOA residencies in competitive fields?
 
Oct. 24, 2012, 10:00 a.m. EDT
M.D.s and D.O.s Moving toward a Single, Unified Accreditation System for Graduate Medical Education

CHICAGO, Oct. 24, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- The Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME), the American Osteopathic Association (AOA) and the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) have entered into an agreement to pursue a single, unified accreditation system for graduate medical education programs in the United States beginning in July 2015. Over the coming months, the three organizations will work toward defining a process, format and timetable for ACGME to accredit all osteopathic graduate medical education programs currently accredited by AOA. AOA and AACOM would then become organizational members of ACGME.

"This is a watershed moment for medical training in the U.S.," noted Thomas Nasca, M.D., M.A.C.P., chief executive officer of ACGME. "This would provide physicians in the United States with a uniform path of preparation for practice. This approach would ensure that the evaluation and accountability for the competency of resident physicians are consistent across all programs," he added.

Graduate medical education is the period of clinical education in a specialty that follows graduation from medical school, and prepares physicians for independent practice. Currently, ACGME accredits over 9,000 programs in graduate medical education with about 116,000 resident physicians, including over 8,900 osteopathic physicians (D.O.s). The AOA accredits more than 1,000 osteopathic graduate medical education programs with about 6,900 resident physicians, all D.O.s. The transition to a unified system would be seamless so that residents in or entering current AOA accredited residency programs will be eligible to complete residency and/or fellowship training in ACGME accredited residency and fellowship programs.

Among the topics of discussion for the three organizations will be:

Modification of ACGME accreditation standards to accept AOA specialty board certification as meeting ACGME eligibility requirements for program directors and faculty;

Programs in graduate medical education currently accredited solely by AOA to be recognized by ACGME as accredited by ACGME; and

Participation by AOA and AACOM in accreditation of programs in graduate medical education to be solely through their membership and participation in ACGME.

"Americans deserve a health care system where continuously improving the quality of care and the health of our patients is the driving force," stressed AOA President Ray E. Stowers, D.O. "A unified accreditation system creates an opportunity to set universal standards for demonstrating competency with a focus on positive outcomes and the ability to share information on best practices."

Stephen C. Shannon, D.O., M.P.H., President of AACOM, adds that, "AACOM is undertaking this historic initiative because we believe that a unified accreditation system will improve the quality and efficiency of graduate medical education."

The Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) is a nonprofit organization responsible for the accreditation of over 9,000 programs in graduate medical education and about 700 institutions that sponsor these programs in the United States. Its accredited residency programs educate over 116,000 resident physicians in 135 specialties and subspecialties. Its member organizations are the American Board of Medical Specialties, the American Hospital Association, the American Medical Association, the Association of American Medical Colleges, and the Council of Medical Specialty Societies. The ACGME's mission is to improve health care by assessing and advancing the quality of resident physicians' education through exemplary accreditation.

The American Osteopathic Association (AOA) is the largest professional membership organization for osteopathic physicians (D.O.s), representing more than 100,000 D.O.s and osteopathic medical students. Headquartered in Chicago, the AOA serves as the primary certifying body for D.O.s; is the accrediting agency for osteopathic medical schools; and has federal authority to accredit hospitals and other health care facilities.

The American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) serves as a unifying voice for osteopathic medical education. It represents the 21,000 osteopathic medical students as well as the administration and faculty of the 29 osteopathic medical schools in the United States. Guided by its Board of Deans and various other member councils and committees, AACOM promotes excellence in osteopathic medical education, in research and in service, and fosters innovation and quality among osteopathic medical schools to improve the health of the American public.

SOURCE Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/md...tem-for-graduate-medical-education-2012-10-24

AOA will be moving under the ACGME in July of 2015. The standards of accreditation for AOA residencies will now belong to the ACGME. What this means, according to the AOA, is one match where MD students will now get to apply to previously AOA residencies (but they want to iron out the standards). What do you guys think? Will this end DO discrimination? Will you guys shoot for previously AOA competitive specialties, if they're now under ACGME standards? Hmmmmm?

BTW, to the mods, I know there are already two threads, but they did a poor job of explaining anything. Merge them into this one, please.
 
Seems like this is going to be a great thing for future doctors.
 
The AOA was in a pretty tough situation but this is not good for DO students. They were in between a rock and a hard place though. Basically this is awesome for MD students and the AAMC, and sucks for DO students. Once the matches merge, MD students will be able to apply to the DO spots as well, whereas DO students have always been able to apply to ACGME spots. The AAMC just opened access to thousands of residency spots for MD students with this deal and are continuing to add more MD schools each year.
 
The AOA was in a pretty tough situation but this is not good for DO students. They were in between a rock and a hard place though. Basically this is awesome for MD students and the AAMC, and sucks for DO students. Once the matches merge, MD students will be able to apply to the DO spots as well, whereas DO students have always been able to apply to ACGME spots. The AAMC just opened access to thousands of residency spots for MD students with this deal and are continuing to add more MD schools each year.

I may be misunderstanding this, but as of right now, isn't it very difficult for DO students to get competitive MD residencies? By encouraging all residency programs to take a mix of MD and DO students, won't DO students benefit by being able to [theoretically] match into the more competitive MD residency programs that were previously nearly exclusive to MD's?
 
Lolz for AOA. Definite ceding of power.

I predict a fall in DOs specializing. There won't be any protected spots and they'll have to compete on the open market.
 
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I may be misunderstanding this, but as of right now, isn't it very difficult for DO students to get competitive MD residencies? By encouraging all residency programs to take a mix of MD and DO students, won't DO students benefit by being able to [theoretically] match into the more competitive MD residency programs that were previously nearly exclusive to MD's?

The important question is, will this change the biases of PDs?

I feel like it won't. So Allo programs will maintain their preference for Allo. AOAs might also retain DO preference, but thousands and thousands of VERY qualified students who went MD due to their quality will now have access to AOA.
 
I may be misunderstanding this, but as of right now, isn't it very difficult for DO students to get competitive MD residencies? By encouraging all residency programs to take a mix of MD and DO students, won't DO students benefit by being able to [theoretically] match into the more competitive MD residency programs that were previously nearly exclusive to MD's?
This doesn't encourage MD programs to take DO students. There are no incentives in place for that.
 
This doesn't encourage MD programs to take DO students. There are no incentives in place for that.

I didn't see anything for the opposite of this either? It's a step in the right direction to break the biases against each other.
 
They might need to standardize the USMLE with the COMLEX, or if DO's take USMLE then it would help their cause from possible prejudgment.
Many DO's already take the USMLE. The COMLEX is not being done away with (though, it should be). It seems like they will remain separate exams.
 
I may be misunderstanding this, but as of right now, isn't it very difficult for DO students to get competitive MD residencies? By encouraging all residency programs to take a mix of MD and DO students, won't DO students benefit by being able to [theoretically] match into the more competitive MD residency programs that were previously nearly exclusive to MD's?

Ha I dont think so either. Program directors aren't suddenly going to start falling over themselves to recruit DO students any more than they are right now. You realize this doesn't change the accreditation of current ACGME residencies. So they'll all just stay the same as they've always been. It's just going to eventually allow (I assume) MD students to apply to AOA residencies if they unify the membership.
 
They might need to standardize the USMLE with the COMLEX, or if DO's take USMLE then it would help their cause from possible prejudgment.
Point being: nothing changes for DO applicants other than AOA residencies will need to be closed or enhanced. They could always apply to the ACGME programs.

MD students gain residencies to apply to and previous AOA programs now have many more qualified students to choose from.
 
What does this mean, exactly? Everyone takes the same test, or everyone gets the same degree, or ultimately nothing? I don't understand this stuff :-(
 
:thumbup: Now they should move toward the same degree, and the whole DO stigma can be erased.
 
Ha I dont think so either. Program directors aren't suddenly going to start falling over themselves to recruit DO students any more than they are right now. You realize this doesn't change the accreditation of current ACGME residencies. So they'll all just stay the same as they've always been. It's just going to eventually allow (I assume) MD students to apply to AOA residencies if they unify the membership.

Ohhh I see. That makes sense. Thanks.
 
What does this mean, exactly? Everyone takes the same test, or everyone gets the same degree, or ultimately nothing? I don't understand this stuff :-(
Still two tests, still two degrees, but previously, DO students had their own residencies, and could also apply to MD residencies.

Now, however, MD students will be allowed to apply to DO residencies.
 
I didn't see anything for the opposite of this either? It's a step in the right direction to break the biases against each other.

In the long term yes but in the short term it may very well hurt DO students once they now have to compete with MD students as well for specialty residencies. We'll probably see some major crossing over for a few years until the system settles down.
 
:thumbup: Now they should move toward the same degree, and the whole DO stigma can be erased.

I honestly don't understand why they're so hell bent on keeping them separate. From my [limited] exposure to DO physicians, they have all told me that they practice the same as their MD counterparts. If the end result of patient care is the same regardless of MD or DO, why keep two separate systems?
 
Dude you didnt reallly explain it any more you just quoted the link....i do like this thread better though. Hopefully we'll get them merged soon.
The last paragraph is all me.

It's better than simply going "interesting, what do you guys think?" Lol.
 
I honestly don't understand why they're so hell bent on keeping them separate. From my [limited] exposure to DO physicians, they have all told me that they practice the same as their MD counterparts. If the end result of patient care is the same regardless of MD or DO, why keep two separate systems?
It's due to politics and money. The AOA would have to disappear for DO schools to become MD, and why the hell would the AOA want to get rid of itself? Lol
 
I honestly don't understand why they're so hell bent on keeping them separate. From my [limited] exposure to DO physicians, they have all told me that they practice the same as their MD counterparts. If the end result of patient care is the same regardless of MD or DO, why keep two separate systems?
I did extensive research (i.e., googleing) before deciding whether to apply DO or not, and the answer always comes back to distinction/pride:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic_medicine_in_the_United_States#Identity_crisis

It seems there DOs who want to be separate and distinct from MDs, and those that want them to be the same.
 
I honestly don't understand why they're so hell bent on keeping them separate. From my [limited] exposure to DO physicians, they have all told me that they practice the same as their MD counterparts. If the end result of patient care is the same regardless of MD or DO, why keep two separate systems?

Money and Power.
 
Having DO students take the USMLEs to do MD residencies wasn't sufficient? :confused:
 
I honestly don't understand why they're so hell bent on keeping them separate. From my [limited] exposure to DO physicians, they have all told me that they practice the same as their MD counterparts. If the end result of patient care is the same regardless of MD or DO, why keep two separate systems?

+1

I think most of us think this way. Just have to let the older generation kick the bucket first I guess ;)
 
Shouldn't they just have never separated to begin with? I'm really confused about this whole MD-DO merger...
 
Lolz for AOA. Definite ceding of power.

I predict a fall in DOs specializing. There won't be any protected spots and they'll have to compete on the open market.

IMO, this.

Every human/corp decision, at the root, is always about "the incentive".

The article mentions that there are about 6,900 DO residents. Each side of this merger [per se] needs some sort of carrot (i.e. "reward").

Simplifying things for the sake of time:::

For DO interests, the main pro is very clear: ACGME accredited residency and fellowship programs (i.e. "Hey, now we won't be discriminated against! I have all the opportunities my MD counterpart has at his disposal, this is great! Derm, PRS, RadOnc, here I come!")

For MD interests, the main pro is: ???. Hmm, what would be their underlying interest in this merger? Ah, yes, perhaps this will further remove IMG's from MD residencies with US grads , further fill the residencies at undesirable locations that have problems filling, and further boost primary care supply.

The "discrimination" isn't going to go anywhere in the foreseeable future. We'll just find more and more DO's in IM, OBGYN, FM, Peds, etc.
 
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IMO, this.

Every human/corp decision, at the root, is always about "the incentive".

The article mentions that there are about 6,900 DO residents. Each side of this merger [per se] needs some sort of carrot (i.e. "reward").

Simplifying things for the sake of time:::

For DO interests, the main pro is very clear: ACGME accredited residency and fellowship programs (i.e. "Hey, now we won't be discriminated against! I have all the opportunities my MD counterpart has at his disposal, this is great! Derm, PRS, RadOnc, here I come!")

For MD interests, the main pro is: ???. Hmm, what would be their underlying interest in this merger? Ah, yes, perhaps this will further remove IMG's from MD residencies with US grads , further fill the residencies at undesirable locations that have problems filling, and further boost primary care supply.

The "discrimination" isn't going to go anywhere in the foreseeable future. We'll just find more and more DO's in IM, OBGYN, FM, Peds, etc.

:thumbup: I couldn't have said it better.
 
I bet the applicant pools will stick close to home for the first few years but after that I expect DO's to be outcompeted in the former AOA ROADS specialties.

Oh well. Still a win-win for both sides as far as I'm concerned. The ****ty AOA residencies will either shape up or get kicked out.

Now lets just hope they'll merge to only MD sooner rather than later.
 
Lolz for AOA. Definite ceding of power.

I predict a fall in DOs specializing. There won't be any protected spots and they'll have to compete on the open market.

:thumbup: Agreed.

If you're a DO, you should be complaining because the AOA really **** the bed here. The desirable AOA residency slots will be filled by better qualified MDs, and DOs will be mostly relegated to less competitive primary care positions.
 
:thumbup: Agreed.

If you're a DO, you should be complaining because the AOA really **** the bed here. The desirable AOA residency slots will be filled by better qualified MDs, and DOs will be mostly relegated to less competitive primary care positions.

Chances are those residencies will still be dominated by DO. Furthermore many more DO's who would have stuck with the earlier DO match will now be able to apply to MD programs like gen surgery and probably in the end there will be more DO's in mid tier MD residencies.
 
:thumbup: Agreed.

If you're a DO, you should be complaining because the AOA really **** the bed here. The desirable AOA residency slots will be filled by better qualified MDs, and DOs will be mostly relegated to less competitive primary care positions.
To be clear, the AOA is saying that they will push for MD's to have some OMM knowledge in order to get AOA spots. Not sure how that would work, but I generally agree with you, and I predict this will mean fewer DO's specializing.
 
Chances are those residencies will still be dominated by DO. Furthermore many more DO's who would have stuck with the earlier DO match will now be able to apply to MD programs like gen surgery and probably in the end there will be more DO's in mid tier MD residencies.
Those DO's who usually just stick with the DO match likely didn't feel that their scores were good enough to apply MD. The current match rate for DO's in the ACGME match is around 71%, and it's usually top DO students who aim for the ACGME match. At the end, though, this means more competition for previously exclusive DO spots.
 
I think it's a good thing, and I'd hope it would mean a step toward DO schools seeking LCME accreditation.

One thing I wonder, though, is if this would make it even harder for DOs to get into certain specialties.
 
Those DO's who usually just stick with the DO match likely didn't feel that their scores were good enough to apply MD. The current match rate for DO's in the ACGME match is around 71%, and it's usually top DO students who aim for the ACGME match. At the end, though, this means more competition for previously exclusive DO spots.

Why apply gen surgery in MD and risk not match when you can get an almost 100% shot in the AOA match?
 
To be clear, the AOA is saying that they will push for MD's to have some OMM knowledge in order to get AOA spots. Not sure how that would work, but I generally agree with you, and I predict this will mean fewer DO's specializing.

AOA is likely saying this to placate DOs who wish to keep the osteo match separate. In reality, is a AOA derm residency director going to decline interviews for Mayo/Harvard/Stanford/etc. because they don't learn OMM? Doubtful. DO students realize OMM is mostly bs, and OMM is not commonly used by practicing DOs, especially in the ROAD specialties.
 
Why apply gen surgery in MD and risk not match when you can get an almost 100% shot in the AOA match?
Because you can apply to both. DO students are allowed to apply to both at the same time. However, if you match DO, then you're automatically withdrawn from the MD match. Someone applying gen surgery for MD and DO doesn't risk anything. You have a 100% shot in the AOA match? Well, then all that will happen is you will get withdrawn from the MD match, but you don't "risk" anything by applying MD, as well. You don't lose the DO spot that you matched into.
 
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AOA is likely saying this to placate DOs who wish to keep the osteo match separate. In reality, is a AOA derm residency director going to decline interviews for Mayo/Harvard/Stanford/etc. because they don't learn OMM? Doubtful. DO students realize OMM is mostly bs, and OMM is not commonly used by practicing DOs, especially in the ROAD specialties.

Your assumption is that the AOA is making this up and that MD's are more qualified for traditionally DO residencies? Seems legit...
 
I think it's a good thing, and I'd hope it would mean a step toward DO schools seeking LCME accreditation.

One thing I wonder, though, is if this would make it even harder for DOs to get into certain specialties.

I was thinking it could make the applicant pool for DO programs that much more competitive and make matching easier
 
Why apply gen surgery in MD and risk not match when you can get an almost 100% shot in the AOA match?

Yes, excellent question, especially for someone that is interested in gen. Surgery.
 
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