Cain

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I'm very interested in pursuing medicine, but I definitely slacked off in my early college life. As such, pursuing an MD isn't really in my sights. I am planning to go through DO. However, I've heard a lot of doom and gloom stories about how the top ACGME residencies like surgery, rad, and anesthesia are nearly impossible to get into. I've also heard that AOA residencies are skipped over by many hospitals during the hiring process.

While I would really love to get into medicine, the idea of investing years of my life and not being able to match due to my early poor choices is horrible. I can attain a 3.7+ through grade replacement, but I am also still fearful that I won't match, especially because I am several years out of being able to get into a residency program.

How bad is it really looking? I don't want to do one of the residencies that no one wants. I want to do certain fields because it's what I'm interested in. While I love medicine, I don't want to be in a specialty that doesn't make me happy.
 

DrWily

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I don't really know the other numbers, but anesthesiology match rates are something like MD 5.5%, DO 4.7%. It's really not that bad. It all depends on you and how you score on your USMLE. If you kick ass, then you should have your pick of residencies. Now, it might be a little bit more difficult, but not enough to give up on med school if that is your dream.
 

Cain

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That's good news to hear. I kept hearing about how more MD students are being churned out and they are taking the spots normally filled for DOs and so DOs are getting pushed out of the MD residencies slightly.

I'm also hearing that research is extremely important, and I would need to be a lead author to look even better. Personally, I'm not a fan of the research aspect. Primary care is where I want to end up, but if I have to do research in order to get my app looking better, fine. But how important is research to primary care?
 
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DrWily

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That's good news to hear. I kept hearing about how more MD students are being churned out and they are taking the spots normally filled for DOs and so DOs are getting pushed out of the MD residencies slightly.

I'm also hearing that research is extremely important, and I would need to be a lead author to look even better. Personally, I'm not a fan of the research aspect. Primary care is where I want to end up, but if I have to do research in order to get my app looking better, fine. But how important is research to primary care?

If primary care is where you want to end up, then you'll have no trouble finding a residency. I think most primary care residencies don't even get filled or something like that, not 100% sure on that. Research is nice, but only the top of the top MD schools really push for it. I wouldn't even say research is important at all. People get in without it all the time.

Whoever you've been talking to has been feeding you with crap or an extremely neurotic pre-med.
 
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Primary care is where I want to end up, But how important is research to primary care?

You sound a little confused... your first post was talking about Rad, Anes, and Surg; now you're talking about primary care (Internal Med, Family Practice, Peds, OB-GYN). As a DO you have the chance to match either ACGME or AOA. To match ACGME you just need a good USMLE step 1 and good grades/evals during med school. It is true that for the more competative residencies such as those you originally posted, ACGME will be -harder to extremely difficult- as a DO. However, unless you are an embarresment to med school, the primary care residencies are certainly within reach. Research is generally not required for the primary care residencies, except perhaps at a few research oriented univeristy residencies. Also remember that AOA has RAD, Surg, and Anes also.
 

cliquesh

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As a DO it is extremely unlikely you will match ACGME:
Ortho
Neurosurgery
Urology
Optho
Dermatology
Rad Onc

As a DO it is unlikely, but possible, you will match ACGME:
Gen Surgery
Diag radiology

Everything else is fine. If you do an AOA residency you will not have a problem finding a job.
 

gatorfann14

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As a DO it is extremely unlikely you will match ACGME:
Ortho
Neurosurgery
Urology
Optho
Dermatology
Rad Onc

As a DO it is unlikely, but possible, you will match ACGME:
Gen Surgery
Diag radiology

Everything else is fine. If you do an AOA residency you will not have a problem finding a job.
As a DO it is highly unlikely you will match AOA:
Neurosurgery
Urology
Optho
Dermatology
Rad Onc

It doesn't matter if you are an MD or DO if those are what you are shooting for you will need to be smarter than the average bear in med school. For example there are only like 80 ortho spots each year and I can tell you from the people I talk to that way more than 80 want a spot.
 

koala37

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As a DO it is extremely unlikely you will match ACGME:
Ortho
Neurosurgery
Urology
Optho
Dermatology
Rad Onc

As a DO it is unlikely, but possible, you will match ACGME:
Gen Surgery
Diag radiology

Everything else is fine. If you do an AOA residency you will not have a problem finding a job.
my apologies for interfering in this thread with a ? of my own, but i found it interesting...how bout if one wants to get a fellowship in infectious disease and/or immunology? is it possible for a D.O. to become an immunologist? i think one has to do an internal medicine residency first but i am not sure. i am interested in this area of medicine. again sorry Cain for interfering in ur thread but I had to ask this ? lol
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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my apologies for interfering in this thread with a ? of my own, but i found it interesting...how bout if one wants to get a fellowship in infectious disease and/or immunology? is it possible for a D.O. to become an immunologist? i think one has to do an internal medicine residency first but i am not sure. i am interested in this area of medicine. again sorry Cain for interfering in ur thread but I had to ask this ? lol
Yes, you do an IM program ( The stronger/higher up, the better) and you apply for a fellowship. And a DO can do it.
 

seraphkz

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Are there any major disadvantages of getting into a..let's say AOA Gen Surg residency as opposed to ACGME? In terms of future job availability
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Are there any major disadvantages of getting into a..let's say AOA Gen Surg residency as opposed to ACGME? In terms of future job availability
There was a thread on this topic, you can search it for a more through answer. But, if I remember right, then no, however there are certain residencies such as Gas ( Anesthesia) which going DO might be a disadvantage.
 

seraphkz

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There was a thread on this topic, you can search it for a more through answer. But, if I remember right, then no, however there are certain residencies such as Gas ( Anesthesia) which going DO might be a disadvantage.
Thank you, I'll search for that. Does that disadvantage only come into play when we are talking about big name hospitals?
 

TriagePreMed

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There was a thread on this topic, you can search it for a more through answer. But, if I remember right, then no, however there are certain residencies such as Gas ( Anesthesia) which going DO might be a disadvantage.
Actually, gas matches pretty well in ACGME just like EM does. You run into trouble in the super specialties where even MDs are usually struggling to get into. Seriously, unless you have some compelling reason BEFORE med school to be considering Urology, ENT, or Derm ACGME, chances are you won't be wanting to match into it after. Either way, I hear Neurosurgery and Dermatology AOA programs are really good.
 

seraphkz

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Actually, gas matches pretty well in ACGME just like EM does. You run into trouble in the super specialties where even MDs are usually struggling to get into. Seriously, unless you have some compelling reason BEFORE med school to be considering Urology, ENT, or Derm ACGME, chances are you won't be wanting to match into it after. Either way, I hear Neurosurgery and Dermatology AOA programs are really good.
Thanks for clearing things up
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Actually, gas matches pretty well in ACGME just like EM does. You run into trouble in the super specialties where even MDs are usually struggling to get into. Seriously, unless you have some compelling reason BEFORE med school to be considering Urology, ENT, or Derm ACGME, chances are you won't be wanting to match into it after. Either way, I hear Neurosurgery and Dermatology AOA programs are really good.
This is true, however this was not what I was talking about, but rather what AOA residencies disadvantage you in terms of getting a job. Derm DO programs I've heard mixed reviews about, including how many are unfunded or that many are combined FM/Derm residencies.
 

koala37

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Yes, you do an IM program ( The stronger/higher up, the better) and you apply for a fellowship. And a DO can do it.
thanks for the info. what do u mean by a "stronger/higher up" IM program? just wanted to clarify.and also, is it much harder for a foreign medical grad to obtain a fellowship after an IM residency than a U.S. M.D/D.O....I hope it is, cuz then its not fair that we have to bust ourselves to get into an U.S. school when the people going abroad (caribbean etc.) end up in the same place as we do. U think that organizations like WHO and the CDC hire D.O.s board certified in infectious diseases?..its my dream to work for them one day...trying really hard to get into an M.D. school, but my mcat is def on the low side for allopathic schools .thanks!
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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IM programs are ranked, the top tier ones have almost all of their students going into sub-specialties like cardiology. The stronger the IM program you get into and the stronger your board scores are, the higher the chances of you getting into a sub-specialty. As such going foreign MD would make your goal impossible as you'll be unlikely to match outside of a lowest ranked IM program.
DO would be a significantly easier path than Carib MD.
 
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As a DO it is extremely unlikely you will match ACGME:
Ortho
Neurosurgery
Urology
Optho
Dermatology
Rad Onc

As a DO it is unlikely, but possible, you will match ACGME:
Gen Surgery
Diag radiology

Everything else is fine. If you do an AOA residency you will not have a problem finding a job.
At the hospital I work at like 60% of the Orthos are DO's...must be a coincidence. I will say that it is a Children's hospital so they are probably just doing their ped's part. It is however one of the top three children's hospital in the country...not a workday goes by that I don't see a sign reminding everyone about that. Apparently to settle out of court helps keep the reputation up :cool:
 

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Are there any major disadvantages of getting into a..let's say AOA Gen Surg residency as opposed to ACGME? In terms of future job availability
No. Once you are out of residency, you will have no problem finding a job. Unless you want to work at an academic powerhouse.
 

cliquesh

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At the hospital I work at like 60% of the Orthos are DO's...must be a coincidence. I will say that it is a Children's hospital so they are probably just doing their ped's part. It is however one of the top three children's hospital in the country...not a workday goes by that I don't see a sign reminding everyone about that. Apparently to settle out of court helps keep the reputation up :cool:
I'm not saying you cannot be an Orthopedic surgeon as a do. I was just saying that it is unlikely to do your ortho training at an ACGME program. So i would imagine those docs you know are AOA board certified.
 

cliquesh

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Thank you, I'll search for that. Does that disadvantage only come into play when we are talking about big name hospitals?
Getting hospital privileges as an AOA certified anesthiologist has been an issue in recent years. I don't think any other AOA board certification has the same issue. In general, you should find a job easily as a do, regardless of your board certification (expect for gas, maybe).
 

cliquesh

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thanks for the info. what do u mean by a "stronger/higher up" IM program? just wanted to clarify.and also, is it much harder for a foreign medical grad to obtain a fellowship after an IM residency than a U.S. M.D/D.O....I hope it is, cuz then its not fair that we have to bust ourselves to get into an U.S. school when the people going abroad (caribbean etc.) end up in the same place as we do. U think that organizations like WHO and the CDC hire D.O.s board certified in infectious diseases?..its my dream to work for them one day...trying really hard to get into an M.D. school, but my mcat is def on the low side for allopathic schools .thanks!
That goal is realistic as a DO.
 
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