LCME ACGME confusion?

[medwriter87]

Despite the merger, I see how some residency programs only invite medical students from LCME-accredited medical schools to rotate with them. Seeing how LCME is only for MD schools, how will DO schools even have a chance at these programs and what is the point of the merger if we can't even rotate there? They don't have any DO's on the roster and only take MD kids to rotate with them.

Just confused on this and hoping for someone to explain. Will LCME accredit DO schools in the future too?

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[Rogue42]

Yeah, I will help you out. These schools do no see DOs as being equal to MDs, and that will never change. Get up and move on.

 

[deleted480308]

Despite the merger, I see how some residency programs only invite medical students from LCME-accredited medical schools to rotate with them. Seeing how LCME is only for MD schools, how will DO schools even have a chance at these programs and what is the point of the merger if we can't even rotate there? They don't have any DO's on the roster and only take MD kids to rotate with them.

Just confused on this and hoping for someone to explain. Will LCME accredit DO schools in the future too?

the merger wasn't to give DO students equal chance at the ivory tower residencies. The acgme wanted the AOA programs to step up their standards and stop the protected AOA program status (having out cake and eating it too). The AOA tried to call the acgme bluff and the acgme threatened to ban AOA graduates from acgme fellowships.

The DOs backed down because they couldn't win. This wasn't a great situation for DOs. But it is here, so you just navigate it

 

[medwriter87]

Sad situation for the DO's truly.

 

[Goro]

Despite the merger, I see how some residency programs only invite medical students from LCME-accredited medical schools to rotate with them. Seeing how LCME is only for MD schools, how will DO schools even have a chance at these programs and what is the point of the merger if we can't even rotate there? They don't have any DO's on the roster and only take MD kids to rotate with them.

Just confused on this and hoping for someone to explain. Will LCME accredit DO schools in the future too?

Very simple. Those programs are no-go for DO students, period. This is one of the taxes on your career as a DO. You'll be a fine (and rich) doctor even if you never set foot in one of them.

Those programs don't take Dos for three reasons:
a) Historic, ingrained bias.
b) Poor clinical education at some DO schools, which tar ALL DOs
c) The fear that elitist MD grads from Really Top Schools will think, God forbid, "There are DOs there? What's wrong with that program?"

And NO, LCME is only concerned with MD education. DOs are stuck with COCA.

 

[Kirby Smart]

Probably a rookie question, but is there a way for me to check which residency programs are like this? Or is it just something you find out when it comes time to seek rotations?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Probably a rookie question, but is there a way for me to check which residency programs are like this? Or is it just something you find out when it comes time to seek rotations?

You look at their website. If there are no DO's on roster, and no DO's in the alumni page then that program is almost assuredly anti-DO. And no, it's not all ivory tower places. There are community programs in the field I'll be applying to that will never take a DO, and no these aren't IMG sweatshops either.

Such is the sacrifice you make when you go to a DO school. The merger was not to benefit DO's.

Edit: I will say there are also places that won't let DO's rotate but will consider DO residency apps. I know of a few places like that where they straight up told me they don't let DO's rotate but have a handful of DO's on their residency roster. Also, LCME has absolutely nothing to do with the merger.

 

[never-too-late]

So I have a similar question, one of the residency programs I might want to apply to says they only accept students from LCME accredited schools with a link. And then they have info for FMG students. And there's no mention of DO students, but in the FAQ it states that for those taking COMLEX, both USMLE and COMLEX scores are required. I don't see any DO residents on their roster. How do I interpret this mixed message?

 

[deleted480308]

So I have a similar question, one of the residency programs I might want to apply to says they only accept students from LCME accredited schools with a link. And then they have info for FMG students. And there's no mention of DO students, but in the FAQ it states that for those taking COMLEX, both USMLE and COMLEX scores are required. I don't see any DO residents on their roster. How do I interpret this mixed message?

That you likely don't get in

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So I have a similar question, one of the residency programs I might want to apply to says they only accept students from LCME accredited schools with a link. And then they have info for FMG students. And there's no mention of DO students, but in the FAQ it states that for those taking COMLEX, both USMLE and COMLEX scores are required. I don't see any DO residents on their roster. How do I interpret this mixed message?

That's not a mixed message. They don't have DO's on their roster.

 

[never-too-late]

That's not a mixed message. They don't have DO's on their roster.

I found their alumni page, they have a handful of DO alumni, including one from my (soon to be) school.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I found their alumni page, they have a handful of DO alumni, including one from my (soon to be) school.

Depending on the field I would still be cautious. Changes in leadership, which happen frequently in residencies, can change a program's practices. You will need to do more digging.

However, don't worry about this until later. This is greatly jumping the gun.

 

[never-too-late]

Depending on the field I would still be cautious. Changes in leadership, which happen frequently in residencies, can change a program's practices. You will need to do more digging.

However, don't worry about this until later. This is greatly jumping the gun.

I'm sure it seems like jumping the gun to you, however I am a non-traditional student with children. Where I match will determine whether or not I retain custody of those children. With those kind of stakes, it's never too soon to think about it...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm sure it seems like jumping the gun to you, however I am a non-traditional student with children. Where I match will determine whether or not I retain custody of those children. With those kind of stakes, it's never too soon to think about it...

I have kids too bro. I get planning ahead too, as I'm neurotic as crap, but this one really is jumping the gun.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

You look at their website. If there are no DO's on roster, and no DO's in the alumni page then that program is almost assuredly anti-DO. And no, it's not all ivory tower places. There are community programs in the field I'll be applying to that will never take a DO, and no these aren't IMG sweatshops either.

Such is the sacrifice you make when you go to a DO school. The merger was not to benefit DO's.

Edit: I will say there are also places that won't let DO's rotate but will consider DO residency apps. I know of a few places like that where they straight up told me they don't let DO's rotate but have a handful of DO's on their residency roster. Also, LCME has absolutely nothing to do with the merger.

Agree. I'd like to add that there are programs that only take IMGs. One IM program in our area only takes residents from one region of the world. One of our students was not allowed to audition there and they reported them to AOA. I'll look at their match list in a few weeks to see if anything changes.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm sure it seems like jumping the gun to you, however I am a non-traditional student with children. Where I match will determine whether or not I retain custody of those children. With those kind of stakes, it's never too soon to think about it...

you might need to get real flexible about what specialty you want to be in if that's the care

 

[harrislakers123]

I rotated, interviewed, and matched at places that “never took DOs”. Don’t use that as a guide.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I rotated, interviewed, and matched at places that “never took DOs”. Don’t use that as a guide.

Agree. Gotta do your own due diligence, but the advice given above is a good place to start