ACLS: easy or hard?

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strangeglove

strangeglove

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I'm curious to know how many people found ACLS class to be hard. I just took a 2 day course and found that the class itself was quite detailed, with some cardiology professor getting all into the conduction pathways of the heart and pimping us on 12-lead EKGs, etc. (all review for me, but with the added aspect of drug dosages and energy levels for the defribilator). However, when it came to the practical test, even the dental student, who couldn't identify V-fib, passed with flying colors.
 
That should tell you.
ACLS the actual process is very stressful, and hard on people the first time. Mentally it is all an algorithm though, so it isn't like you have to think that critically, you just have to recognize the patterns.
 
It's not like it used to be back in the bad old days. I first took it back in the mid-80's and they were very strict. It was nothing like now. Back then people used to really stress over having to take ACLS. Now it's more like, "Let's all sit around and talk about what we'd do for PEA/v-fib/etc."
 
I don't mean to thread hijack but, can anyone answer a few questions for those of you who have done the CD version.

My program gives us the ACLS anywhere CD and I just popped it in to try and figure out what I'm supposed to do (no instructions anywhere).

1. How long is it from start to finish?

2. Would you recommend me buying the book that accompanies the CD (the ACLS provider manual)?

3. It says that I can only use the CD for 32 hours - should I just wait and try to finish it close to when I start (since I don't start for another three weeks and have to take a test when I start - would it be better to just wait)?

Thanks!
 
you can start anytime you want. 32hrs doesnt count down until you open a case and timer stops when u close it. there are only 12 cases to run in 32hrs. acls provider manual is built in in this cd no need to buy it and 32hrs doesnt count when you read it, however you cant print it.
 
ACLS the class isn't so bad but the real code is a different story.

You just have to gradually learn your way in a code. The nurses are generally helpful and will help you out with doses and generally the whole crowd that is there will verify with you the right rhythmn on the EKG.

You just have to remember that something like less than 10% of code patients actually walk out of the hospital within 60 days. (and these patients are mostly your young patients, people visiting sick patients in the hospital and sudden MI).

good luck!
 
loveumms said:
I don't mean to thread hijack but, can anyone answer a few questions for those of you who have done the CD version.

My program gives us the ACLS anywhere CD and I just popped it in to try and figure out what I'm supposed to do (no instructions anywhere).

1. How long is it from start to finish?

2. Would you recommend me buying the book that accompanies the CD (the ACLS provider manual)?

3. It says that I can only use the CD for 32 hours - should I just wait and try to finish it close to when I start (since I don't start for another three weeks and have to take a test when I start - would it be better to just wait)?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

took about 2hrs to go thru all the senarios (you have to pass them) and take the test.

all you really need are the algorythems and they are on the aha.org website

you use cd 32 hrs of ON CD time. you have PLENTY of time to finish it. The test is not hard at all. I wouldnt worry about it. The CD is nice because it cuts the time down 1/3 than it normally takes to finish a recert class. Only downside is its more expensive. I also wish that for providers that they can bump up the recert to when the criteria changes renewing Q 2yrs is a pain
 
what a wonderful dig at a dental student "strangeglove"- you must be very proud
 
Pir8DeacDoc said:
I imagine dental students don't really need to or care to be good at ACLS.
Click to expand...

I was one of those dental students who had to take ACLS for a hospital residency in general dentistry. OMFS residents do need to care about ACLS, but as a general dentist it wasn't as critical. I found the class stressful when I took it immediately after graduating dental school but it was mostly because it had been three years since I had taken Cardiac Physiology. My co-residents and I all passed although I did have to do some extra reviewing of the book to make sure I was going to pass. Thankfully when I returned to the hospital to do my orthodontics residency, they only required BLS certification. I had no desire to go through ACLS training again.
 
does anyone have a website link to the most recent (2007?) acls algorithms/cards?
 
smg42 said:
I was always under the impression that your institution pays for your BLS/ACLS training...

until I was informed that I'd have to shell out the $350 myself.

Is is standard for residents to pay for their own certification? *thru a raining course arranged by the institurion.
Click to expand...

I am taking it for the 3rd time (ie, two renewals) this Thursday and have never been asked to pay for it. Not sure if this is common, but a poll of friends suggests that their institution paid for it as well.
 
somedumbDO said:
took about 2hrs to go thru all the senarios (you have to pass them) and take the test.

all you really need are the algorythems and they are on the aha.org website

you use cd 32 hrs of ON CD time. you have PLENTY of time to finish it. The test is not hard at all. I wouldnt worry about it. The CD is nice because it cuts the time down 1/3 than it normally takes to finish a recert class. Only downside is its more expensive. I also wish that for providers that they can bump up the recert to when the criteria changes renewing Q 2yrs is a pain
Click to expand...

Has the ACLS preparation changed recently? I'm looking at the CD my program gave me at orientation on Monday. (We are supposed to read through the cases/algorithms and complete the assessments before attending the course this weekend)

THE CD only appears to contain self-assessment tests and these are definitely not timed. The CD also came with a brochure that contained the various cases and algorithms.
 
Ha Ha. Yep failed ACLS and ATLS twice. Good thing I didn't have to take PALS too...those poor kids.

I think the algorithms have changed every time I've taken it. I see shock shock shock drug shock has been modified. I'm reading this course book and the case dialogue makes me laugh:

EMT "blah blah blah 42 yo found down..."
Dr. "Is the scene secure?"...

Am I really supposed to follow these dialogues?
 
smg,
it really sucks if your institution is making you pay for ACLS. In all cases I know of, they have provided the training to residents/fellows/interns. that sucks. I suggest not complaining directly, but if you have a house staff council/representatives, try to get them to lobby the hospital to change the policy.
 
smg42 said:
I was always under the impression that your institution pays for your BLS/ACLS training...

until I was informed that I'd have to shell out the $350 myself.

Is is standard for residents to pay for their own certification? *thru a raining course arranged by the institurion.
Click to expand...

Everyone I know around here was asked to purchase the (ACLS/BLS) books on their own (new or used - as long as most current version), but the institution covered the cost of course itself. Having to pay out $350 before you even get your first residency paycheck would blow.
 
Have any of you heard anything from your residency programs about BLS certification? My program is scheduling ATLS and ACLS for us, but we haven't heard anything or been asked if we have BLS. They have spelled out everything else we need for residency, it seems weird that noone has mentioned this. Other people I've talked to have also not heard anything from their programs, am I missing something?
 
Poupart said:
Have any of you heard anything from your residency programs about BLS certification? My program is scheduling ATLS and ACLS for us, but we haven't heard anything or been asked if we have BLS. They have spelled out everything else we need for residency, it seems weird that noone has mentioned this. Other people I've talked to have also not heard anything from their programs, am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Our program requires that we receive BLS certification on our own. That being said, I have classmates in other programs who were told to just prep for the ACLS course with the self-assessment CD and the fact that their prior BLS certification had expired was just conveniently ignored.
 
Poupart said:
Have any of you heard anything from your residency programs about BLS certification? My program is scheduling ATLS and ACLS for us, but we haven't heard anything or been asked if we have BLS. They have spelled out everything else we need for residency, it seems weird that noone has mentioned this. Other people I've talked to have also not heard anything from their programs, am I missing something?
Click to expand...

At some of the ACLS courses, folks who don't have current BLS were able to stay on for an extra 2 hours and complete that as well. Perhaps your program is planning the same thing. ACLS assumes you know BLS.
 
The first box on my pre-course checklist for ACLS is "Complete a BLS for Healchcare Providers Course or be able to perform high-quality CPR and use an AED according to 2005 guidelines." [emphasis added]
 
I think it depends where you take it. I got certified in med school and a bunch of us who didn't study failed the megacode the first time. It was one-on-one and if you said something wrong they just marked it on their sheet and gave you a dirty look. I recently got recertified for residency and it was a joke. Not only were we allowed to use our cards but they hand-held you through the code and some people didn't even have to be team leader. BLS was on the computer. Virtually impossible to fail.
 
And I remember taking it for the first time waaaaaaay back when it was truly difficult. Many failed. And there was no hand-holding - no feedback whatsoever. Just go through the scenario and a "thank you. That's all" from the tester. No cards allowed, no calculators. Very stressful. But you could definitely run just about any code when you were done.

These days ACLS is a cake-walk. Nobody fails. It relies heavily on the team approach to get you through a code. Totally non-stress, and very easy.
 
ShyRem said:
These days ACLS is a cake-walk. Nobody fails. It relies heavily on the team approach to get you through a code. Totally non-stress, and very easy.
Click to expand...

And people are surprised when 90% of interns and 70% of residents can't run a code for anything besides vfib.*

If I had a dollar for every time I've arrived at a code and seen the respiratory therapist ineffectively attempting to mask ventilate a patient while an intern or resident stood there flipping through some ACLS cards, I'd be able to go to the food court every day instead of the cafeteria.

ACLS cards have become the pinewood derby equivalent of the 5" participation trophy.


* fabricated but ball-park accurate statistics
 
pgg said:
And people are surprised when 90% of interns and 70% of residents can't run a code for anything besides vfib.*
...

* fabricated but ball-park accurate statistics
Click to expand...

Well in all fairness a LOT of the ACLS course is based on things not really borne out in the science. Shocking early for the right rhythms, and doing BLS CPR have been shown to work, but most of the drugs and dosages they want you to memorize in ACLS are simply adopted standard of practice rather than something statistically shown to actually work.
 
Note: ACLS is easy, but ATLS isn't. If you're taking that course, spend the week or so before you start reading the book.
 
I took it this week and it was super easy. All that was required to pass was a multiple choice test. In our small groups, people could volunteer to run the codes, but nobody was forced to do anything.
 
Just your thoughts on this scenerio.

The # of codes at our hospital is down 64% with the institution of the Rapid Response Team.

They (ACLS teachers) let us know that there are residents that have not ran a code as seniors b/c of it.

Should residents be assigned to the RRT for a couple of weeks? Although only about 10% of their responses turn into full codes. Their mantra is research says patients exhibit signs of sliding into a code up to 8 hours before the code and that is where their intervention happens.

RRT consists of ICU nurse, Resp. Therapist, and when needed an intensivist physician
 
UCLAstudent said:
I took it this week and it was super easy. All that was required to pass was a multiple choice test. In our small groups, people could volunteer to run the codes, but nobody was forced to do anything.
Click to expand...
That really surprises me. Both times I took the full course (once as a 2nd year med student and again now for residency) everyone was required to take a turn being team leader for the mega code in order to pass. I think that getting that practice was the most useful aspect of the class.
 
It is dead easy, after 4 years of being a resident, I didn't study for it, got 2.5 hours of sleep prior, and passed it easily. Nothing to worry about. Focus more on Step 1.
 
LifetimeDoc said:
It is dead easy, after 4 years of being a resident, I didn't study for it, got 2.5 hours of sleep prior, and passed it easily. Nothing to worry about. Focus more on Step 1.
Click to expand...
You just bumped a very old thread to tell people ACLS is easy. Most of the people on this thread will have renewed 3-4 times by now.
 
Psai said:
It helped me
Click to expand...
Not my point. You weren't one of the people on the thread in 2007-2009 to whom the prior poster was responding. The prior poster should have either acknowledged he was bumping up a very old thread, or just started a new one. Otherwise we risk people responding to posts from people long gone from SDN, etc.
 
Law2Doc said:
Not my point. You weren't one of the people on the thread in 2007-2009 to whom the prior poster was responding. The prior poster should have either acknowledged he was bumping up a very old thread, or just started a new one. Otherwise we risk people responding to posts from people long gone from SDN, etc.
Click to expand...

Meh. I don't feel like it's a huge deal. Responding to very old posts isn't the worst thing in the world.
 
smq123 said:
Meh. I don't feel like it's a huge deal. Responding to very old posts isn't the worst thing in the world.
Click to expand...
It's annoying if you spend time creating a well thought out response to someone who you later realize hasn't checked SDN for half a decade. Sort of like continuing to talk on the phone without realizing the person on the other end already hung up. You can't get that time back. If you value your time it's "a huge deal".
 
Law2Doc said:
It's annoying if you spend time creating a well thought out response to someone who you later realize hasn't checked SDN for half a decade. Sort of like continuing to talk on the phone without realizing the person on the other end already hung up. You can't get that time back. If you value your time it's "a huge deal".
Click to expand...

Im checking your post right now. There have been many in which I read a post where I am not explicitly intended as the audience and somehow I managed to derive benefit.
 
Psai said:
Im checking your post right now. There have been many in which I read a post where I am not explicitly intended as the audience and somehow I managed to derive benefit.
Click to expand...
Yes I get that others might get a benefit. That's why i am saying when one bumps a very old post, it's nice if they at least say "I'm bumping this very old post" because I have something salient to add, rather than just continue the conversation as if it's an active thread. That way idiots like me don't inadvertently waste time responding to the guy who hasn't been on here since 2007.
 
Law2Doc said:
Yes I get that others might get a benefit. That's why i am saying when one bumps a very old post, it's nice if they at least say "I'm bumping this very old post" because I have something salient to add, rather than just continue the conversation as if it's an active thread. That way idiots like me don't inadvertently waste time responding to the guy who hasn't been on here since 2007.
Click to expand...
Agree. Pointless grave digging is ill advised.
 
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