actuary vs medical school

[lenovofan]

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I'd like to hear people's thoughts on my situation.

I came to the U.S. when I was 18. Before leaving my country (China), I was admitted to the most prestigious medical school (college+ grad school combined) there with the intent to become a neurosurgeon. I chose to attend a 30ish ranked university in the U.S. with the help of a full scholarship from a foundation. I gave up on becoming a doctor in the U.S. because of the difficulty of getting into medical school without a green card, not to mention no way I could pay for the tuition. (hence my bad GPA, see the last part)

Fast forward 8 years, I've been working as an actuary for a mid-cap company for 4 years. I was credentialed 2 years ago and recently promoted to manager. As I'm getting closer to my green card (in 2-3 years), the idea of becoming a doctor resurfaced in my mind and I started losing sleep over whether I should start taking the rest of pre-med courses. (only took General Chem and Math, but I have extremely good background in Physics and Bio)

Here comes the problem:

I'm married, no kid (no plan for kid either). I'm here to ask you to opine on whether going to medical school would be too selfish of a decision.


Current job Pro:

decent income: currently 150K, and could see 250K/year in 10 years at the director level. Beyond that (money wise and responsibility wise) is near impossible. That means 20 years of same level job before retiring.

All this can be achieved with near zero overtime, allowing me to focus on my family and hobby (which is painting and cooking 🙂 )

Con:
The worst part of my job is I don't feel fulfilled. I grew up being the kind of person that loves helping people and this jobs provides no satisfaction other than a decent paycheck. Contrary to popular belief, an actuary does very little math everyday...

Medical school Pro:
One of the childhood dreams, feeling of actual contribution to the society, the ability to help people, potentially better income, more challenge and fun

Con:
lost income, time with family, stress. I probably won't graduate with much debt from medical school.

My wife seems to support me no matter what I choose because she wants me to be happy, but I think she's saying so because she has no idea how difficult it will be on her.

my cGPA 3.6/ sGPA 3.95 I would expect a MCAT score no less of 38 from myself, probably will have some shadowing and volunteer work done before applying. I have a failed social science class due to family reason. If you think this idea is not crazy, what can I do to make myself more competitive? I personally know a professor from Harvard Medical School, how can I utilize this to get good recommendation letters? I don't have connection with any of the professors from college (except for math professors). I never went to their lectures...

Thanks for your time reading my little story... 😍 I just want a happy life for my wife and a fulfilled life for myself.

 

[deleted103644]

Honestly, unless you hate your job, you'd be nuts to switch to medicine now.

 

[lazymd]

Honestly, unless you hate your job, you'd be nuts to switch to medicine now.

👍👍👍

Agreed.

OP, I think you are romanticizing medicine way more than you should. From what I've seen and heard, patients have the tendency to suck the life out of any and everything. It sounds like you're doing pretty good for yourself. Unless your job is making you seriously contemplate suicide, I don't think it's worth the switch.

 

[Esquire]

.

 

[deleted103644]

It's not even that I'm being doom and gloom about medicine, but just from a practical perspective

You should not expect to earn much more than $250k as a physician - this is already what you would expect to be earning in 10 years without switching careers.

Instead of earning $150k a year until then, however, you would be paying $50k a year for four years followed by earning only ~$50k for the next 3-5 years. That's an opportunity cost of well over $1 million before even factoring in debt payments if you need to take out any loans.

You also probably have an idealized view of life as a physician - in the end, it is still just a job. It can be rewarding or frustrating just like any other form of employment.

You're already on a great path. We can always play the game of "what if", but in your case it really is a no brainer. You say you don't want kids now, but that may change in the future and in that case the answer would be even clearer.

You can always work as a volunteer EMT or even train to be a PA after you retire from your other job (much shorter path). Going MD now wouldn't be worth it, seriously.

It sounds like you've got a great life. Enjoy it with no regrets.

 

[WaterPog]

I disagree, the decision to go to medical school is so much more than mere economics. Follow your gut, if medical school is where it leads you then that is where you should go, just be sure it is your gut and not your parents/spouse/friends gut but what you truly want to be doing with your life.

 

[chirodocjrd]

I was in a very similar situation (not married). I gave up a pretty decent career to go back to school, I am currently in a special masters program and I applied to the 2013 year for medical school. I was a chiropractor and worked with several docs over the years so I had a better idea of what I wanted. I cannot imagine ever doing anything different with my life. That's why I am willing to give up everything, be broke for 6 years, move away from all of my friends and family, and start all over. I finally got to shadow a few interventional radiologists last month and know its what I was meant to do.

I'd suggest that before makes a rash decision, that you shadow physicians in areas of interest to you. Then, if you can't imagine life without practicing medicine, go for it. Forget about money and everything else that people have said. If you want to practice with the same hours, time off, etc. that you have now, you will be able to have that as a physician. You won't make the same amount of money but that's a non-issue as I stated earlier. Make the best decision for you.

Good luck in your decision

 

[murfettie]

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on my situation.

I came to the U.S. when I was 18. Before leaving my country (China), I was admitted to the most prestigious medical school (college+ grad school combined) there with the intent to become a neurosurgeon. I chose to attend a 30ish ranked university in the U.S. with the help of a full scholarship from a foundation. I gave up on becoming a doctor in the U.S. because of the difficulty of getting into medical school without a green card, not to mention no way I could pay for the tuition. (hence my bad GPA, see the last part)

Fast forward 8 years, I've been working as an actuary for a mid-cap company for 4 years. I was credentialed 2 years ago and recently promoted to manager. As I'm getting closer to my green card (in 2-3 years), the idea of becoming a doctor resurfaced in my mind and I started losing sleep over whether I should start taking the rest of pre-med courses. (only took General Chem and Math, but I have extremely good background in Physics and Bio)

Here comes the problem:

I'm married, no kid (no plan for kid either). I'm here to ask you to opine on whether going to medical school would be too selfish of a decision.


Current job Pro:

decent income: currently 150K, and could see 250K/year in 10 years at the director level. Beyond that (money wise and responsibility wise) is near impossible. That means 20 years of same level job before retiring.

All this can be achieved with near zero overtime, allowing me to focus on my family and hobby (which is painting and cooking 🙂 )

Con:
The worst part of my job is I don't feel fulfilled. I grew up being the kind of person that loves helping people and this jobs provides no satisfaction other than a decent paycheck. Contrary to popular belief, an actuary does very little math everyday...

Medical school Pro:
One of the childhood dreams, feeling of actual contribution to the society, the ability to help people, potentially better income, more challenge and fun

Con:
lost income, time with family, stress. I probably won't graduate with much debt from medical school.

My wife seems to support me no matter what I choose because she wants me to be happy, but I think she's saying so because she has no idea how difficult it will be on her.

my cGPA 3.6/ sGPA 3.95 I would expect a MCAT score no less of 38 from myself, probably will have some shadowing and volunteer work done before applying. I have a failed social science class due to family reason. If you think this idea is not crazy, what can I do to make myself more competitive? I personally know a professor from Harvard Medical School, how can I utilize this to get good recommendation letters? I don't have connection with any of the professors from college (except for math professors). I never went to their lectures...

Thanks for your time reading my little story... 😍 I just want a happy life for my wife and a fulfilled life for myself.

你在国内能考上协和或者复旦之类的医学院肯定学习很好，学习能力强，自制能力强。如果你决定学医，能力肯定不是问题。 （我要是在国内高考肯定考不上） 我当时也是因为绿卡的原因大学毕业4年才上医学院。但是我本科专业没有你那么好啊，所以我不学医也没有什么特殊的专业能力。所以说，我的opportunity cost 低。

我是一个女孩子，今年28。 我是26岁上的医学院。你要是过几年拿到绿卡，上了医学院校也30了吧？

咱么岁数差不多。我可是告诉你我的情况。 家庭，婚姻是很讓我困扰的一件事。我男朋友是学应用数学的，星期5就博士论文答辩， 他的工作很好。 我想你本科也是学数学的吧？ 如果我干点儿别的工作，我们应该已经结婚了。可是现在呢？ 我的脾气比以前糟糕， 还得了一次忧郁症。 我不是说医学院不好，我觉得挺好。但是的确是一个负担。

也许你觉得你还年轻，你无所谓。你老婆呢？ 你老婆想几岁要孩子？你想36,7岁奔40，欠一屁股债吗？ 还是买房子，有孩子，能孝顺父母， 不用父母孝顺你。 这以后的10年，要你老婆供你吗？ 你老婆到头来不会怨你耽误了她？

你的老婆你了解，你想想她 面对这样的情况会怎么想？你问她，她可能说，没事儿。其实呢？
我2年级才开始了两个月吧？我们全年级100人。已经两个离婚的了。 一开始不都说的好好的吗？ 美国人都告诉你，追求自己的梦想，你老婆不乐意就拉倒，云云。 你觉得这观点正确吗？


真的，当个医生就那么回事儿。新鲜就那么一阵子。我们年级也有30多岁的，但是他们一般都是自己的行业做到30多就该退休了，跳舞的，弹钢琴的。 医学算是一个第二行业。你呢？ 你的事业到30多才正在起步。 你要是不喜欢自己的工作，可以考虑自己创业，你的能力可以translate 到多种行业，多种工作。 如果一想要帮助其他人，有其他方法的。当医生其实帮助的人真不多， 能力有限， 政治能力有限，什么都有限。


如果你决定走这一步，我知道你一定能成功。
但是我个人来说，并不认为这是一个明智的选择。

我忘了说，听起来你觉得精算不是那么有意思，然后做到一定程度就没戏了。至少我见到的不是这样的。
我前男友的爸爸是一个精算师 算等级好像是9什么的？ 精算师好像打游戏哈～。他40多岁的时候觉得当精算师无聊，就自己出来干。20年下来，钱是一大堆。压力也不小（你要是觉得当精算师不够刺激的话）。 他的员工我也认识一些，他们有的就永远当精算师，有的干别的，花样繁多，所以我觉得精算也没必要是那么无聊的事业。

 

[lenovofan]

Thanks for all your input. I'll think about this a bit more.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

Also keep in mind that there are many ways to become involved in medicine, both as a career and through volunteering, without going through medical school and becoming a physician; obviously the downside of this is that you'll still have to "tolerate" your day job.

 

[darkjedi]

A 38 is an extremely lofty goal for the MCAT, particularly for someone who (I assume) speaks English as a second language.

The very fact you had a prior career is an extracurricular in itself. Now you just need to focus on crafting a narrative that shows you have a passion and dedication to medicine, whether it's through volunteering/shadowing/research/etc.

 

[deleted103644]

A 38 is an extremely lofty goal for the MCAT, particularly for someone who (I assume) speaks English as a second language.

Honestly, for an actuary, it probably wouldn't be...

 

[darkjedi]

Honestly, for an actuary, it probably wouldn't be...

Why do you say that?
To me, the field of actuary seems to have very low correlation to MCAT skills

And to lenovofan, I am a career switcher, opting to quit a career in finance at 24 in order to do a postbac and apply to medical school. I have zero regrets about my switch from my old career as I am significantly more happy with my life now than I was while working in finance.

It sounds like you already have your pre-reqs done, so you don't even need the extra time to do a postbac. You can take this next year to improve your application through medically relevant experiences and volunteer gigs and then apply in the next cycle in the summer. This is of course still a decision you need to make for yourself, but it is certainly not too late to pursue medicine if that is indeed your true passion.

 

[PharMed2016]

Honestly, for an actuary, it probably wouldn't be...

I'm inclined to agree.

 

[lenovofan]

你在国内能考上协和或者复旦之类的医学院肯定学习很好，学习能力强，自制能力强。如果你决定学医，能力肯定不是问题。 （我要是在国内高考肯定考不上） 我当时也是因为绿卡的原因大学毕业4年才上医学院。但是我本科专业没有你那么好啊，所以我不学医也没有什么特殊的专业能力。所以说，我的opportunity cost 低。

我是一个女孩子，今年28。 我是26岁上的医学院。你要是过几年拿到绿卡，上了医学院校也30了吧？

咱么岁数差不多。我可是告诉你我的情况。 家庭，婚姻是很讓我困扰的一件事。我男朋友是学应用数学的，星期5就博士论文答辩， 他的工作很好。 我想你本科也是学数学的吧？ 如果我干点儿别的工作，我们应该已经结婚了。可是现在呢？ 我的脾气比以前糟糕， 还得了一次忧郁症。 我不是说医学院不好，我觉得挺好。但是的确是一个负担。

也许你觉得你还年轻，你无所谓。你老婆呢？ 你老婆想几岁要孩子？你想36,7岁奔40，欠一屁股债吗？ 还是买房子，有孩子，能孝顺父母， 不用父母孝顺你。 这以后的10年，要你老婆供你吗？ 你老婆到头来不会怨你耽误了她？

你的老婆你了解，你想想她 面对这样的情况会怎么想？你问她，她可能说，没事儿。其实呢？
我2年级才开始了两个月吧？我们全年级100人。已经两个离婚的了。 一开始不都说的好好的吗？ 美国人都告诉你，追求自己的梦想，你老婆不乐意就拉倒，云云。 你觉得这观点正确吗？


真的，当个医生就那么回事儿。新鲜就那么一阵子。我们年级也有30多岁的，但是他们一般都是自己的行业做到30多就该退休了，跳舞的，弹钢琴的。 医学算是一个第二行业。你呢？ 你的事业到30多才正在起步。 你要是不喜欢自己的工作，可以考虑自己创业，你的能力可以translate 到多种行业，多种工作。 如果一想要帮助其他人，有其他方法的。当医生其实帮助的人真不多， 能力有限， 政治能力有限，什么都有限。


如果你决定走这一步，我知道你一定能成功。
但是我个人来说，并不认为这是一个明智的选择。

我忘了说，听起来你觉得精算不是那么有意思，然后做到一定程度就没戏了。至少我见到的不是这样的。
我前男友的爸爸是一个精算师 算等级好像是9什么的？ 精算师好像打游戏哈～。他40多岁的时候觉得当精算师无聊，就自己出来干。20年下来，钱是一大堆。压力也不小（你要是觉得当精算师不够刺激的话）。 他的员工我也认识一些，他们有的就永远当精算师，有的干别的，花样繁多，所以我觉得精算也没必要是那么无聊的事业。

恩,是有9级,我二十四岁就考完了... 然后升职也很快. 我现在的职位是绝大多数人做到35-40才能做到的. 麻烦就在这里,再往上升就要看谁能拍CEO的马屁了...我又不是白人又不喜欢看橄榄球和棒球... 我很讨厌这个说句实话,所以我觉得也就这样差不多了. 自己也不想创业... 你觉得医学界种族歧视严重么? 我口语还挺好的,有个奇怪的口音,以前网上打游戏别人都觉得我是澳大利亚人... 就是没有什么交流障碍的意思. 还是挺想做 neurosurgoen的, 老婆太灌着我了... 你是学什么的在医学院? 我这个工作经常搞得我抑郁,不过我自己挺能调节的,就是去吃顿越南面. 你自己也要找到调节的方式阿... 😍

 

[lenovofan]

Why do you say that?
To me, the field of actuary seems to have very low correlation to MCAT skills

And to lenovofan, I am a career switcher, opting to quit a career in finance at 24 in order to do a postbac and apply to medical school. I have zero regrets about my switch from my old career as I am significantly more happy with my life now than I was while working in finance.

It sounds like you already have your pre-reqs done, so you don't even need the extra time to do a postbac. You can take this next year to improve your application through medically relevant experiences and volunteer gigs and then apply in the next cycle in the summer. This is of course still a decision you need to make for yourself, but it is certainly not too late to pursue medicine if that is indeed your true passion.

what are the things in medicine that makes you significantly happier that you can't find in finance?

and thanks for warning me about the difficulty of MCAT, I'll make sure to study hard for it.

 

[murfettie]

你又不想创业，又不想跟领导搞好关系。
你以为当医生就不用跟领导搞好关系啊？
你以为当医生不受气啊？当外科医生得受10年气。你35,6岁让一个比你小3, 5岁的人骂你觉得爽啊？
你能不能告诉我你觉得当医生到底哪儿好？
种族歧视肯定有。你要是想当个什么主任的什么比较难。
亚裔的医生很多很多，但是亚裔的科主任很少很少。
你到底有没有跟你媳妇认真的商量过这事儿？
我在医学院当让是。。。 学医的啊？？
你的工作让你忧郁，我的工作有时候也让我犹豫。
我妈说，人就这样，啥工作都有时候让你犹豫。工作嘛～

恩,是有9级,我二十四岁就考完了... 然后升职也很快. 我现在的职位是绝大多数人做到35-40才能做到的. 麻烦就在这里,再往上升就要看谁能拍ceo的马屁了...我又不是白人又不喜欢看橄榄球和棒球... 我很讨厌这个说句实话,所以我觉得也就这样差不多了. 自己也不想创业... 你觉得医学界种族歧视严重么? 我口语还挺好的,有个奇怪的口音,以前网上打游戏别人都觉得我是澳大利亚人... 就是没有什么交流障碍的意思. 还是挺想做 neurosurgoen的, 老婆太灌着我了... 你是学什么的在医学院? 我这个工作经常搞得我抑郁,不过我自己挺能调节的,就是去吃顿越南面. 你自己也要找到调节的方式阿... 😍

 

[murfettie]

what are the things in medicine that makes you significantly happier that you can't find in finance?

and thanks for warning me about the difficulty of MCAT, I'll make sure to study hard for it.

I don't think quitting a job at 24 really means quitting a "career" yet. Unless you are 24 and is already a managing director, because that's where OP is.
OP is in a position where most people only get to 10 - 15 years his senior.
Also, I want to note that Darkjedi is a first year med student. I think he could really only say he is having a good time first semester of first year so far. I hope someone who's further along, or is a resident or done with training could have some input.

 

[darkjedi]

This is clearly a decision you need to make with you and your family.

I just want to balance what murfettie has said in regards to overall 'happiness' and provide another voice.

Right before I decided to pursue medicine, I was earning a good amount of money in finance and probably would've gotten to your level of salary in a couple of years in my track. The definition of "career" here may be semantics, but there's no question I gave up something solid for something that was an enormous risk. Despite the difficulty of my road ahead, I know that the challenges and experiences I will have will be infinitely more rewarding than anything I encountered during my days in finance. I know I am just a first year, but my experiences working with physicians and within the medical community have given me zero reason to have any regrets about switching careers. I will also note that I have encountered significantly more discrimination against Asians in the business field than in medicine.

I will however stress that you absolutely cannot do this for the money. You need to be absolutely sure that medicine is the right path for you. I have my own reasons for loving medicine more than business, but you need to be sure of your own. You need to be immersed amongst medical professionals and get a solid understanding of what it means to be a physicians, in both the good and the bad.

As murfettie has said, medical school will be hard, and it will be an enormous stress on your family life. Your wife must understand this aspect of medicine and will hopefully remain supportive if your decisions. I obviously don't know you, but I can understand your turmoil with not knowing whether it's the right decision to give up something 'pretty good' for something extremely risky but that can potentially make you happier in the long run. It sounds like you are having trouble with finding happiness in your work, something I can relate to. It was an extremely difficult decision and stressful period of my life which eventually cost me a relationship, but despite that, I am glad I took the plunge and to be where I am now. Just make sure that your wife is completely on board, and to come to the decision together.

 

[whythis]

你又不想创业，又不想跟领导搞好关系。
你以为当医生就不用跟领导搞好关系啊？
你以为当医生不受气啊？当外科医生得受10年气。你35,6岁让一个比你小3, 5岁的人骂你觉得爽啊？
你能不能告诉我你觉得当医生到底哪儿好？
种族歧视肯定有。你要是想当个什么主任的什么比较难。
亚裔的医生很多很多，但是亚裔的科主任很少很少。
你到底有没有跟你媳妇认真的商量过这事儿？
我在医学院当让是。。。 学医的啊？？
你的工作让你忧郁，我的工作有时候也让我犹豫。
我妈说，人就这样，啥工作都有时候让你犹豫。工作嘛～

我年底34岁，还有mlc+fap才成为asa (我想明年中能考&#21040😉，也没有精算工作经验。我以前是做finance，有cfa和硕士文凭。刚到美国一年 (嫁到这&#37324😉，准备 明年有小孩。现在考虑修学，想在小孩五岁左右有一点儿事干。
我这把年龄想有份entry-level精算工作是很困难的，更别说五年后了。想想healthcare的工作前景应该还是不错，而且自己也喜欢觉得工作有点"意思" ，帮助人之类的。
做了一些volunteer，感觉有好有坏。有些人会感激你帮了他们，可是有些人毫不犹豫地痛骂你，因为你没有办法解决他们的问题。我想医生也要面对这种情况，有时是束手无策。

你在26岁就是fsa，要是你成为医生后觉得精算师的工作比较好，会不会/能不能回到精算?? 还是会继续医学?? 毕竟，有一大堆人期望考上医学院，成为医生。
赞同恩所说，"人就这样，啥工作都有时候让你犹豫"

 

[StBernardsRule]

You come across as very intelligent (both from your writing and your accomplishments), and if you feel unfulfilled through your job then I think you are right to seriously consider this. There's nothing wrong with entering medical school at 30, and this will give you a few years to have some money saved up so you won't graduate with much debt.

How about take some classes now while working and see how your wife feels with you being much busier than you are currently? Start volunteering, taking some classes, and see what happens.

 

[murfettie]

我年底34岁，还有mlc+fap才成为asa (我想明年中能考&#21040😉，也没有精算工作经验。我以前是做finance，有cfa和硕士文凭。刚到美国一年 (嫁到这&#37324😉，准备 明年有小孩。现在考虑修学，想在小孩五岁左右有一点儿事干。
我这把年龄想有份entry-level精算工作是很困难的，更别说五年后了。想想healthcare的工作前景应该还是不错，而且自己也喜欢觉得工作有点"意思" ，帮助人之类的。
做了一些volunteer，感觉有好有坏。有些人会感激你帮了他们，可是有些人毫不犹豫地痛骂你，因为你没有办法解决他们的问题。我想医生也要面对这种情况，有时是束手无策。

你在26岁就是fsa，要是你成为医生后觉得精算师的工作比较好，会不会/能不能回到精算?? 还是会继续医学?? 毕竟，有一大堆人期望考上医学院，成为医生。
赞同恩所说，"人就这样，啥工作都有时候让你犹豫"

恭喜新婚啊～
在美国health care 方面稳定有很多种工作啊，不是只有医生可以当的。而且这些工作（除了临床护士以外），我觉得受气都 比医生少呐。 都需要硕士博士学位不等，需要念一阵子书。
你要是有兴趣我可以介绍给你。

工作其实就那么回事儿。我妈高考的时候硬让我姥姥报学医，她自己不想学。 过了几年也慢慢喜欢当医生。有时候选择太多其实并不是完全好的一件事。我不是鼓吹没选择啊，我就是说，有时候一个人的生活好不好是跟态度有关，跟外界的条件关系并不大。
人都爱吃着碗里的看着锅里的。

 

[murfettie]

学医照顾不了孩子的。
我隔壁公寓一个女孩子4年级，30出头吧，刚生完孩子没几个月，天天10几个小时不回家。我天天都看见他老公推着孩子，还得请保姆。
我要是有孩子，不知道要咋办，扔给我妈吧。

我年底34岁，还有mlc+fap才成为asa (我想明年中能考&#21040😉，也没有精算工作经验。我以前是做finance，有cfa和硕士文凭。刚到美国一年 (嫁到这&#37324😉，准备 明年有小孩。现在考虑修学，想在小孩五岁左右有一点儿事干。
我这把年龄想有份entry-level精算工作是很困难的，更别说五年后了。想想healthcare的工作前景应该还是不错，而且自己也喜欢觉得工作有点"意思" ，帮助人之类的。
做了一些volunteer，感觉有好有坏。有些人会感激你帮了他们，可是有些人毫不犹豫地痛骂你，因为你没有办法解决他们的问题。我想医生也要面对这种情况，有时是束手无策。

你在26岁就是fsa，要是你成为医生后觉得精算师的工作比较好，会不会/能不能回到精算?? 还是会继续医学?? 毕竟，有一大堆人期望考上医学院，成为医生。
赞同恩所说，"人就这样，啥工作都有时候让你犹豫"