Adcom told me to ditch MD and go dental?

[IkeBoy18]

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So I went to speak with an adcom about my application and what things would benefit me.. Most of the conversation went well.. He really had some good advice.. We spoke for abt an hour and the last 10 min were baffling.. He then asks me "do you really really want some great advice?" ofcourse I'm like definitely! He says, "you probably won't listen, but go to dental school" ofcourse my life has been geared towards medicine..so I'm like ????.. What makes you say that? He says that "with the condition of healthcare..and the future of medicine.. Physicians will be high in debt.. And low in income..it just won't be good times.. But dental.. Is going to be doing well..and even better in the future." Ofcourse this comes from an md phd adcom.. From a certain illinois med school... which will remain nameless to protect me and this person.. But.. What do u guys think abt this?

 

[CCUmed]

Do you really think anyone will believe this. You're an idiot.

 

[IkeBoy18]

Ummm.. This is exactly what I was told.. I don't write posts for laughs.. I actually have a life outside of SDN.. At any given rate if you didn't want to respond with something worth hearing then you could've saved that foolishness

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Do you really think anyone will believe this. You're an idiot.

He/she's been a member for four years. If he is a troll, he's waited a pretty long time before choosing to strike. While nothing is set in stone yet, a lot of people are predicting that bad times are ahead for physicians, including a good number of residents/attendings that I've spoken to. So I could imagine the OP's situation actually occurring.

 

[brooklynblunder]

yea my PI tells me this all the time too. they benefits of dentistry is kinda obvious

 

[armorshell]

There's a reason "lifestyle specialties" in medicine are so competitive, and there's a reason they call dermatologists "skin dentists."

 

[Pills Of Soap]

i believe it

 

[IkeBoy18]

He/she's been a member for four years. If he is a troll, he's waited a pretty long time before choosing to strike. While nothing is set in stone yet, a lot of people are predicting that bad times are ahead for physicians, including a good number of residents/attendings that I've spoken to. So I could imagine the OP's situation actually occurring.

Yeah I mean.. I just don't get why even if he believed that why would he say that to me ..a person whom he knows is waist deep in 2010 md application stuff.. Ofcourse I'm not gonna derail things at this point to even consider something that frankly I've never considered.. So I keep getting mixed emotions/answers on the whole future of the profession..

 

[Mattabet]

There's a reason "lifestyle specialties" in medicine are so competitive, and there's a reason they call dermatologists "skin dentists."

😀 Awesome. I've never heard that, but I'm using it for now on. Thank you internet, armor.

 

[armorshell]

😀 Awesome. I've never heard that, but I'm using it for now on. Thank you internet, armor.

I either heard it on Scrubs or made it up myself, either way I like it just fine too.

 

[wanderer]

I either heard it on Scrubs or made it up myself, either way I like it just fine too.

I've heard of ophthalmologists being referred to as "eye dentists" by other doctors.

 

[J ROD]

I have heard the same about dental.

Personally, I do not want the headaches of running a business even if it is very lucrative. Also, it is alot of the same over and over. I would be SO bored. I was close to considering it but dental lacks the diagnosing skills I like the most about healthcare too.

Dental probably is a better choice for actual outlook unless things change though.

 

[JonBonesJones]

Yeah, I don't buy all this talk here on SDN that the government or whoever is going to unilaterally decide that all physicians will make 50k per year. Yes, the top earners (derm, GI, etc.) will probably make less, but I don't see the internists or FPs becoming poverty-stricken martyrs for the greater good. If people want a profession that provides crazy earnings, start your own buisness and work hard to make it successful. I don't see why anybody, physicians included, should be garunteed ridiculous salaries.

However, let's even consider a senario where some power deems physician salaries too high. I would guess that this same person would also consider dentist salaries too high, since they work fewer hours and don't have long under-paid residencies. SO, why would dentists be immune to any type of cost cutting?

 

[TopSecret]

So I went to speak with an adcom about my application and what things would benefit me.. Most of the conversation went well.. He really had some good advice.. We spoke for abt an hour and the last 10 min were baffling.. He then asks me "do you really really want some great advice?" ofcourse I'm like definitely! He says, "you probably won't listen, but go to dental school" ofcourse my life has been geared towards medicine..so I'm like ????.. What makes you say that? He says that "with the condition of healthcare..and the future of medicine.. Physicians will be high in debt.. And low in income..it just won't be good times.. But dental.. Is going to be doing well..and even better in the future." Ofcourse this comes from an md phd adcom.. From a certain illinois med school... which will remain nameless to protect me and this person.. But.. What do u guys think abt this?

He's basically telling you to go where the money is. Bad advice.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Eh. Not really. It's important to be well compensated. At least to me...and most humans who are honest with themselves.

Keep in mind that this guy was an md/phd who spent half a decade longer to get his degrees and then ended up in an academic/administrative setting where he's probably pulling in a paltry salary. It's a shame, but his experience doesn't necessarily translate to all doctors.

 

[amakhosidlo]

SO, why would dentists be immune to any type of cost cutting?

Because the number of practicing dentists is declining, and their practice consists of virtually nothing BUT procedures. Oh, and the vast majority of them practice in a private setting, and dictate which patients they'll see.

If I had ANY interest in dentistry, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

 

[wanderer]

However, let's even consider a senario where some power deems physician salaries too high. I would guess that this same person would also consider dentist salaries too high, since they work fewer hours and don't have long under-paid residencies. SO, why would dentists be immune to any type of cost cutting?

Because dental care is often not considered healthcare.

 

[J ROD]

Because dental care is often not considered healthcare.

Dental is sort of "elective". I still think eventually they will take a hit too somehow. Especially if there is some kind of socialized medicine.

 

[JonBonesJones]

Because the number of practicing dentists is declining, and their practice consists of virtually nothing BUT procedures. Oh, and the vast majority of them practice in a private setting, and dictate which patients they'll see.

If I had ANY interest in dentistry, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Let me see if I have this right: SDN people (and the OP) believe that decreasing physician salaries will result from the government setting lower pay rates, which the government argues are necessary to grant service access to the greater society. Is this the correct train of thought?

I don't think society values access to a dentist any differently than access to a physician.

If this is correct, than the pay won't depend on the type of service, be it a consultation or a procedure, since ceilings are set. I would think the most reasonable reimbursement method would consider the length and difficulty of training time. And thus, dentists would take a cut proportional to physicians. But would it really be so terrible to take a lower salary to ensure that more people have access to medical advice/technology/support?

I really think people need to chill-out when thinking about the financial future of medicine. I can guarantee that all future physicians and dentists will not be homeless.

 

[wanderer]

I really think people need to chill-out when thinking about the financial future of medicine. I can guarantee that all future physicians and dentists will not be homeless.

Keep on debating the straw man.

 

[JonBonesJones]

Keep on debating the straw man.

Yep. You're right, I'll shut up now.

 

[SteinUmStein]

Keep on debating the straw man.

Yeah, seriously. Nobody said doctors will be on the streets. The point is, with the amount of time, effort, and delayed gratification it takes to become a doctor, you could easily be a [insert job: dentist, pharmacist, MBA, lawyer] and make more money with fewer hours.

Even my optometrist lectures me about this whenever we talk about me applying to med school, and it's even worse now with all the healthcare reform going on. He keeps basically saying that there's a good reason everybody says do not become a doctor. I dunno, I've always been stubborn so I probably won't listen.

 

[DeadCactus]

You really think dentists are safe if healthcare goes to a place where physicians can't make a decent wage?

 

[IkeBoy18]

Yea I never said I agreed with him..I never really thought about what he saidb4 he said it.if that makes sense..lol.. But I was very confused and deflated by the time I left.. After I responded that my life really has been geared toward medicine.. He said "so many of you young kids chase a dream.. Only to find out that its a nightmare" so maybe some you all r right.. And he's pretty bitter about his position.. Personally I wil still persue medicine.. That's what I've always wanted to do.. I don't mind a declining salary trend..to a certain point.. Lets say.. 120k minimum.. But ofcourse I'm just a pre med.. I'm sure things..and my opinion will change by the end of my residency or fellowship..

 

[schrizto]

I'm not surprised.

 

[SteinUmStein]

You really think dentists are safe if healthcare goes to a place where physicians can't make a decent wage?

Yes. Dental reimbursement is different then that of a major surgery, for example. Plenty of people pay out of pocket and plenty will continue under the new system.

 

[camo]

Yeah, seriously. Nobody said doctors will be on the streets. The point is, with the amount of time, effort, and delayed gratification it takes to become a doctor, you could easily be a [insert job: dentist, pharmacist, MBA, lawyer] and make more money with fewer hours.

Even my optometrist lectures me about this whenever we talk about me applying to med school, and it's even worse now with all the healthcare reform going on. He keeps basically saying that there's a good reason everybody says do not become a doctor. I dunno, I've always been stubborn so I probably won't listen.

Same here man, I am definitely stubborn. I do not care how many people tell me not to go to medical school. Heck if everyone is worried about debt just join the military and make them pay for it. HaHa, okay maybe not so much, but it is an option.

On a side note, I do not care one iota if there is money in Dentistry. The freaking monotony of that stinking career is not appealing one bit. Plus, who the hell wants to look in a mouth all day? Not me.

 

[SteinUmStein]

Same here man, I am definitely stubborn. I do not care how many people tell me not to go to medical school. Heck if everyone is worried about debt just join the military and make them pay for it. HaHa, okay maybe not so much, but it is an option.

On a side note, I do not care one iota if there is money in Dentistry. The freaking monotony of that stinking career is not appealing one bit. Plus, who the hell wants to look in a mouth all day? Not me.

If there were any possibility of me keeping my sanity in dentistry or pharmacy or optometry, I truly would do it. I have stuff that I want to do with my life outside of work (family, vacations, regular relaxation, etc.) and it would be much more convenient to not do medicine, but that's just too bad. 😛

 

[jonessoda]

Personally, I don't think I could turn dentistry into a satisfying career for myself. Not a huge fan of teeth. But if you could, then his advice may be sound.

 

[rikibamboo]

On a side note, I do not care one iota if there is money in Dentistry. The freaking monotony of that stinking career is not appealing one bit. Plus, who the hell wants to look in a mouth all day? Not me.

AMEN. Not trying to diss on dentists or anything. I have an uncle who is one and him and his family live very comfortably - and he seems to like what he does. But I guess this is why I know that money isn't the main reason I want to go into medicine - no matter how many people tell me that doctors' salaries will be going down in the next few years, this hasn't really stopped me from wanting to go into it. Though I'm not also sure what exactly my main reason is either - whether it be reputation, genuine altruism, etc. I've pretty much been running on inertia these past years...should I be worried??

 

[Uisa]

I'm not at all in favor of the health care reform; but I am an advocate of weeding out those who are in the medicine for monetary purposes. Of course I'm not going to lie and say I don't consider money a factor, but if you can change your entire outlook on what you want to be based upon PREDICTIONS of the monetary future of the job, then it's best for that individual to go into business rather than medicine.

I can sort-of infer from the OP's post that he/she won't go over to dental, because if you really want to be a physician, can you live your entire life knowing you gave up your dream job because of money? I would think/hope not.

 

[armorshell]

Same here man, I am definitely stubborn. I do not care how many people tell me not to go to medical school. Heck if everyone is worried about debt just join the military and make them pay for it. HaHa, okay maybe not so much, but it is an option.

On a side note, I do not care one iota if there is money in Dentistry. The freaking monotony of that stinking career is not appealing one bit. Plus, who the hell wants to look in a mouth all day? Not me.

The idea that dentistry is monotonous is one of the biggest loads of deuce ever dropped. General dentists, should they so choose, have a whole world of procedural and medical treatments open to them. Implant surgery and prosthodontics, laser gingival surgery, periodontal surgery, fixed and clear orthodontics, in-office CAD/CAM ceremic fixed prosthodontics, endodontics, TMD/Facial pain tx, dentoalveolar surgery in addition to the normal "drill and fill."

In addition, you're opened up to some of the awesome specialties dentistry has to offer. Everyone loves their orthodontist, and who hasn't heard about OMFS?

As far as not being able to stand looking in the mouth all day, well, I hope I get to be around for your first OB/GYN rotation 😉

 

[FuturaDocta]

So I went to speak with an adcom about my application and what things would benefit me.. Most of the conversation went well.. He really had some good advice.. We spoke for abt an hour and the last 10 min were baffling.. He then asks me "do you really really want some great advice?" ofcourse I'm like definitely! He says, "you probably won't listen, but go to dental school" ofcourse my life has been geared towards medicine..so I'm like ????.. What makes you say that? He says that "with the condition of healthcare..and the future of medicine.. Physicians will be high in debt.. And low in income..it just won't be good times.. But dental.. Is going to be doing well..and even better in the future." Ofcourse this comes from an md phd adcom.. From a certain illinois med school... which will remain nameless to protect me and this person.. But.. What do u guys think abt this?

Dental? Why would you just be going in the field because of money (not referring to you just saying). It would make the whole working thing much undesirable IMO. If you don't feel fully accomplished to your goals then how can you be fully happy (see my signature? v).

However, I still think both professions will be chugging in the money just because everyone will always need health care just like everyone will always need water. "Do you want me to unclog that blockage in your artery for you sir or do you think you can handle it for a couple of more years?"

 

[camo]

The idea that dentistry is monotonous is one of the biggest loads of deuce ever dropped. General dentists, should they so choose, have a whole world of procedural and medical treatments open to them. Implant surgery and prosthodontics, laser gingival surgery, periodontal surgery, fixed and clear orthodontics, in-office CAD/CAM ceremic fixed prosthodontics, endodontics, TMD/Facial pain tx, dentoalveolar surgery in addition to the normal "drill and fill."

In addition, you're opened up to some of the awesome specialties dentistry has to offer. Everyone loves their orthodontist, and who hasn't heard about OMFS?

As far as not being able to stand looking in the mouth all day, well, I hope I get to be around for your first OB/GYN rotation 😉

Ah, finally I get a dental student to comment on my post. 👍

Yeah maybe I could have chosen a better word than "monotonous," but whatever.

It's not that I can't stand looking in the mouth all day it's the fact that teeth are dull and not appealing. Teeth don't do anything besides break down our food. I mean seriously, how cool is that?

I would rather look at vagina's all day, because they are appealing.😉 So when I get to my OB/GYN rotation, I'll let you know so you can come and actually see some cool s@#%

But despite my opinion, I do like getting my teeth cleaned, I am thankful that I have straight teeth and if I do get a cavity I know that I can go to my Dentist and he will fix it. SO...

 

[DRIN]

He/she's been a member for four years. If he is a troll, he's waited a pretty long time before choosing to strike. While nothing is set in stone yet, a lot of people are predicting that bad times are ahead for physicians, including a good number of residents/attendings that I've spoken to. So I could imagine the OP's situation actually occurring.

Not to mention, if trolling was the goal, that would be a pretty weak attempt .

 

[TexasFight]

I would rather look at vagina's all day, because they are appealing.😉

.
I literally LOLed

 

[JamesBond15]

You guys do know that dental school tuition is much more than med school tuition (sometimes double).

Plus everyone wants an all cash patient practices but those are very hard to achieve. When you start you pretty much take any insurance that walks through the door.

 

[Omni]

Dentistry is mostly like private practice doctor. Its a pain setting up, but once you've established yourself, you should have it easy after that. But one thing that makes it easy is the fact that you won't be in deep in malpractice insurance payments as doctors will be.

 

[Wylde]

Yeah I mean.. I just don't get why even if he believed that why would he say that to me ..a person whom he knows is waist deep in 2010 md application stuff.. Ofcourse I'm not gonna derail things at this point to even consider something that frankly I've never considered.. So I keep getting mixed emotions/answers on the whole future of the profession..

Maybe that's the problem? You need to look around at other options to find the one that truly fits you; truly makes you happy.

If everyone was as close-minded, we'd all be miserable (and either "doctors", "lawyers", or "what daddy does").

 

[Wylde]

Dental? Why would you just be going in the field because of money (not referring to you just saying). It would make the whole working thing much undesirable IMO. If you don't feel fully accomplished to your goals then how can you be fully happy (see my signature? v).

However, I still think both professions will be chugging in the money just because everyone will always need health care just like everyone will always need water. "Do you want me to unclog that blockage in your artery for you sir or do you think you can handle it for a couple of more years?"

I believe that people in socialized Europe also still need their health care, but doctors (and other health care professionals) make terrible money.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I would rather look at vagina's all day, because they are appealing.😉

Do you really think that everyday in your Ob/Gyn rotation, there will be hot chicks dropping in for vaginal exams for no apparent reason than to make your day more satisfying? Or do you think it's going to be the fungal infested, STD breeding groundish types with stinky vj's (to put it crudely) that are more likely to come in? Unfortunately, I think the latter is winning that tug of war.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Do you really think that everyday in your Ob/Gyn rotation, there will be hot chicks dropping in for vaginal exams for no apparent reason than to make your day more satisfying? Or do you think it's going to be the fungal infested, STD breeding groundish types with stinky vj's (to put it crudely) that are more likely to come in? Unfortunately, I think the latter is winning that tug of war.

But there will be SOME hot chicks. Right? Riiight?
"work where other men play"

 

[camo]

Do you really think that everyday in your Ob/Gyn rotation, there will be hot chicks dropping in for vaginal exams for no apparent reason than to make your day more satisfying? Or do you think it's going to be the fungal infested, STD breeding groundish types with stinky vj's (to put it crudely) that are more likely to come in? Unfortunately, I think the latter is winning that tug of war.

Yeah I agree with the latter. I forgot to put in my post that, although some vagina's are appealing the majority in OB/GYN will be disgusting. But whatever.

 

[maceo]

However, let's even consider a senario where some power deems physician salaries too high. I would guess that this same person would also consider dentist salaries too high, since they work fewer hours and don't have long under-paid residencies. SO, why would dentists be immune to any type of cost cutting?

are you serious? You dont see anyone going broke over dentist bills. And medicare/ medicaid has little to do with paying dentists. Most of their money comes in private money. So how the F*** can the government control something in which they have little to do with Thats the beauty of dentistry

 

[xmsr3]

Same here man, I am definitely stubborn. I do not care how many people tell me not to go to medical school. Heck if everyone is worried about debt just join the military and make them pay for it. HaHa, okay maybe not so much, but it is an option.

On a side note, I do not care one iota if there is money in Dentistry. The freaking monotony of that stinking career is not appealing one bit. Plus, who the hell wants to look in a mouth all day? Not me.

That is the route I am going down, although I am not so much doing it for financial reasons but because I want to be a military doc.

What I am most amazed by is the idea that people who have arrived at the med school application process could decide that this is not for them. It seems that 4 years of back breaking stress, studying and preping for the app process would screen out the undecideds.

As for the future of medicine? I am not worried at all. I know I will make a good wage and have a comfortable life and I am not out to make massive money as long as I enjoy my job.

Heck my current plan is to become an Army Radiologist, who makes a starting salary of about $130K after they become board certified and by the end of my career I will be making about $200K.

I know that I could easily make double that or more in the private sector but for now I would like trying to live my ideals, (to live and work in a society where everyone has a job, housing, food, healthcare, ect.) For me choosing radiology is about enjoying what you do. Diagnosing illnesses by analysing readouts from the coolest tech in the world while serving your country? Sounds like my idea of heaven.

 

[camo]

I have a really dumb question:

If this health reform bill passes will it effect all physicians whether they are military or not?

 

[medictim84]

Ah, finally I get a dental student to comment on my post. 👍

Yeah maybe I could have chosen a better word than "monotonous," but whatever.

It's not that I can't stand looking in the mouth all day it's the fact that teeth are dull and not appealing. Teeth don't do anything besides break down our food. I mean seriously, how cool is that?

I would rather look at vagina's all day, because they are appealing.😉 So when I get to my OB/GYN rotation, I'll let you know so you can come and actually see some cool s@#%

But despite my opinion, I do like getting my teeth cleaned, I am thankful that I have straight teeth and if I do get a cavity I know that I can go to my Dentist and he will fix it. SO...

Yeah....the vag you'll see in medicine is the vag you wish didn't exist. A lot of your patients will consist of poor, ghetto, drug-addicted or otherwise unsavory people. Healthy, attractive young girls are like most young people...they don't need much health care hence you won't see much of them. And if you do, it'll be because they have an STD they need help with. I guess if you're into that then it'll be your world...

Do you really think that everyday in your Ob/Gyn rotation, there will be hot chicks dropping in for vaginal exams for no apparent reason than to make your day more satisfying? Or do you think it's going to be the fungal infested, STD breeding groundish types with stinky vj's (to put it crudely) that are more likely to come in? Unfortunately, I think the latter is winning that tug of war.

Word.

But there will be SOME hot chicks. Right? Riiight?
"work where other men play"

Think about it. Unless it's an annual checkup with a pap smear, the hot chick is there for a reason. No hot chick jumps out of bed and says "gee, let's go to the doctor's office and show him some poon tang!". What she probably did say was "omfg it burns when I pee, I need help!"

I have a really dumb question:

If this health reform bill passes will it effect all physicians whether they are military or not?

I honestly don't see how it could affect military physicians since I understand they're just paid a certain salary amount. Anyone else's thoughts?

 

[armorshell]

I would rather look at vagina's all day, because they are appealing.😉 So when I get to my OB/GYN rotation, I'll let you know so you can come and actually see some cool s@#%

Don't forget the average age we want to get wisdom teeth out is from 17-25. 50% of those patients will be female. So if you go dental, and become an OMFS, you get to routinely perform oral sx on young female patients.

Read that one closely.

 

[camo]

Don't forget the average age we want to get wisdom teeth out is from 17-25. 50% of those patients will be female. So if you go dental, and become an OMFS, you get to routinely perform oral sx on young female patients.

Read that one closely.

I read it closely and you make a valid point.

 

[kac714]

haha wow. dentistry is a great career, but as I HATE the dentist with a passion... could never do it. They do make a lot though... just got a small cavity filled, took 20 min, my cost: 150 bucks. And I have dental insurance...