Based only on those grades, your science GPA would be around 3.0 or so, which is probably not in the acceptance range. I don't think a minor in science is necessary, but I think you should retake the C+ organic, since it's unlikely that would even meet the pre-req standard. Also, I agree with taking upper level courses (biochem, genetics, cell biology, physiology) to pump up that science GPA.
Nah, that's fine.
I think the best you can do is hope that the committee reads between the lines and figures out the situation. Other than that, let's hope the rest of your letters paint you as the next Mother Theresa.
Either would be good from the admissions point of view. It's important to get As. If I were you, I would go with Penn.
Whatever; you'll demonstrate your scientific acumen and hard work either way. I realize it's a tough decision, but really it should work fine for admissions no matter which you do, so long as you do well.
Yes, you will likely be cut off by some schools. As long as you have graduate grades, you would not be cut off by mine. This is why some people do post-bacc, which combines with the rest of undergrad. But often people have 160+ credits, which makes improving in post-bacc pretty hard.
I'll snip this a bit...
Your application is not all that atypical, and folks with your background regularly get accepted at my school. Apply broadly and you should be fine, assuming you meet the targets you elaborated. Have someone from the medical world review your PS, since artistic types sometimes go a little over the top with the creativity, no offense intended.
SunnyJohn said:
Your numbers are a little marginal, but probably acceptable if you applied broadly. I would apply to 25-30 schools with those numbers.
That does suggest to me that the interviewer was not completely overcome. At many schools, the interviewer is your advocate in committee, which could explain your rejection. This is not, however, the case at my school. Without seeing the whole application, it's really hard to say what else might have done it. Examples: PS didn't work for someone, school has really high average MCAT or GPA, some kind of red flag in your LORs or elsewhere. You should definitely call and see what the director of admissions suggests; this can be really productive.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty much guessing too. A 30+ MCAT would certainly help, but you've taken it 4 times already - you would need to be pretty sure you can improve. More coursework might help if it can bring your grad GPA up over 3.8 or so. Sounds like you're doing everything you can, so all I can say is 👍 👍
Many schools (the ones at expensive private schools tend to be MUCH better than those at public schools) have a faculty committee or non-faculty staff group that exists to 1) advise pre-health sciences students (MD, DO, DDM, DVM, etc.), 2) collect LORs and sometimes compile a committee letter, and 3) convince people with lower grades and MCAT scores not to apply to med school or vet school (really, this helps keep their "% accepted to med school" high.)What is exactly IS a premed advisor...or committee? Whatever people on SDN are always talking about.I don't think that exists at my college (in canada) and if so, no one uses it.
I was browsing through some american med school's sites and some actually request that you send letters through this mythical academic body, is that severely going to hurt me at those schools if I can't? And even if not, from what I've read it just sounds like an easy way to get phd's to write LORs for you...is that true?
😉 Show me the SDNer who was never a noob, and I'll... um... well, it's never going to happen, so I guess I can just leave the ellipsis...
Just an educated guess, but maybe the adcom sits down when it's time to admit some waitlisters, and just goes through the pile and picks ones that help fill holes in their class?
That's fine, of course, and you'll get credit for them as a good experience. Normally when we talk about publications, though, we're talking about peer-reviewed journals. Don't stress that you miscategorized them or something, though. It's fine.
Only if you did it because you're lazy or can't handle it. So if your academics are otherwise good, it's not a problem and might not even be noticed.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Of course it's fine if retired profs write letters. Better in some ways because they have a whole career's worth of people to compare you to, and when they say, "In my 40 years as a Professor of Independent Research, I have mentored 5,782 students. NYGirl12 was easily the most talented and down-to-earth of them," or whatever, that carries some weight.
Let me give you an anecdote that may or may not help. Our admissions committee is split into in-state and out-of-state subcommittees. I sit on the in-state, and we get summary applications for our "rubber stamp" from the out-of-state. The out-of-state subcommittee looks for the same things the in-state subcommittee does. If anything, they accept more low GPAs and MCATs from people with really interesting backgrounds than we do. We have a quota for in- vs. out-of-state, I don't know about international.
I vote 100% for working with victims of domestic abuse. You have plenty of research experience and want to something different for a while. Cool, in my book.
The trick is to make the time count. In your PS you need to use anecdotes from your clinical experiences to reinforce your motivation for medicine. It's not really about how long you did it, but what you got out of it, past some minimum amount of time. Sometimes people with short clinical experiences try to make TOO much of it in their PS, though, and that's not good either. Walk that razor and you're fine. While you're doing your experiences, you want to be really observing what the job of doctoring is all about.
Each school has different requirements, unfortunately. I should think you will have to get a letter or two from your profs. One trick is to arrange a meeting where you take your AMCAS and/or CV and fill them in on your motivations for medicine, etc. Science profs at large universities will have written literally hundreds of these letters, and it's part of their job to do it. Just be polite and on time for your meeting, and follow up with a thank you.
Honestly, it might raise some eyebrows, but that will be overcome by your post-bacc performance assuming As.
Yes, so long as the applicant didn't spend them in prison or something.
Very, very serious. As much weight as GPA or MCAT.
No, but you will also need some more recent ones.
We're certainly still interviewing at my school, and maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through evaluating applications, so this year is still a possibility. October was pretty late to get your secondary in. Sounds like you've made a good backup plan, though, and that's important. So often people find out in May that they're not getting in and then there's no time to make changes for the next cycle, which really sucks.
What are the advisors saying? I would say that you need to do some post-bacc or graduate work to get that science GPA up. That may be preventing you from interviewing, because the rest of your app is pretty good, especially your experiences and research.
Do you mean that your cumulative ugrad will be 3.5-6 after post-bacc? Or that you will have 3.5-6 in post-bacc itself? The latter is, I am sorry to say, not likely to really enhance your application, at least at my school, although it might get you past screens at some schools. What's going on in organic and physics that's keeping your from getting As?
Sure, you can count them as publications. What else would you call them? But as I pointed out before, when medical types talk about "publications," they generally mean in peer-reviewed journals. In my experience. But please take the credit, you've earned it.
I guess you could sell that as improving your cultural competence.😛You don't do background checks with Interpol do you? 'Cause there was that time I "spent" in Thailand......
Especially if I can track down Gary Glitter for an LOR.
My school really doesn't do anything with'em; once the committee ranks your application it's all by the numbers. My understanding is that one letter of intent to one's top choice and any number of letters of interest might be helpful. By no means should an applicant send more than one letter of intent, since 1) it's just bad business and 2) after the veil is lifted (March 31 or whatever the date is) directors of admissions are free to compare notes on their applicants.
I'm going to wind up with like 1,000 posts under this pseudonym. I think it's only fair if they admins add them to my regular account after the admissions season is over and I can decloak. Maybe I should start lobbying now.Especially if I can track down Gary Glitter for an LOR.
In my committee, we assign points for greater-than-expected and lesser-than-expected performance in the following areas. The numbers in curly brackets roughly represent the relative weight. Negative points can be given:
A) Don't give up hope yet this year. Loyola in particular is pretty slow, I think. Tough that you're geographically limited, that can make it really hard. B) The health clinic experience sounds good. I wouldn't worry too much about the JC courses since you have a ChemE degree from UMich. Using personal experiences as PS topic can be really successful if well-handled. Write a draft and ask for help from someone familiar with the game. Also, if you're not successful this cycle, definitely call the admissions directors and ask what you can do to improve your app. Single biggest predictor of success for reapps: did the applicant do what we asked them to do?
Good question. Some of the lower-stat people do, in fact, matriculate. I'll bet if you asked them if they would rather not interview and have no chance, or interview and have at least some chance, they would mostly pick the latter.
Last post for tonight.
The thing is, unless you are really fluent, you still need to use a translator. "Getting by" doesn't cut it legally. So, if you can bring it up in interview or explain in your PS how you used those language skills on a medical mission or whatever, go for it. But I wouldn't list them as languages on AMCAS.
Obviously this is not the place for an argument. It is difficult to know whom to select given two applicant with identical "stats," no doubt. Fortunately the LCME gives us specific guidance, as follows (citation: http://www.lcme.org/functionslist.htm#admissions).
Thank you ADcom2
