ADCOMS: Semi-Solicited Advice [Part II]

[viciouz]

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Well, for starters you do have upward trend thing going and anyone who looks at your AMCAS will see your gpa split out by year and by science/other (it is a multi-cell table and will be impressed with a 3.67+ every year after a bad first year. If you continue on this track you should pull up the gpa over the next couple of semesters, right?

Here's LizzyM's formula for determining whether you have a shot at a given school given your academic record. Multiply your gpa by 10. Add your MCAT. That's your number. (for you at this point it is 62). Figure out "the number" for a school and subtract 1. If the school's number (minus 1) is equal or less than your number you have a decent chance of being admitted. Most of your schools to which you apply (8-10 schools) should be in this range. You can pick a few (1 or 2) reach schools that have a number higher than your number. Pick 2 or 3 safety schools that have a numbers less than your number. Pay attention and don't waste money on out of state (OOS) schools unless they are very, very friendly to OOS applicants. You can get all the stats you need from the MSAR and it is well worth the $25 investment if it saves you from paying one unwise secondary application fee.

When you look at the numbers for schools that interest you then you will have a better idea of what you have to shoot for when you retake the MCAT. There will be a lot riding on that exam.

Good luck.

Thanks for the Advice Lizzy... I am shooting for a 33+ MCAT score 👍

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM, thanks for the help with the previous post about waitlists. Really, I have a much larger question ahead of me: what to do to improve myself should the waitlists not pan out? (A very real possibility).

The dreaded stats... I graduated undergrad, double major, have a 3.4, 3.36 science and am a CA resident. My MCAT: 10B 10V 9P Q. I applied very widely and broadly, ended up with 3 interviews that turned out to be all waitlists.

My waitlisted schools: School 1 has stats more in my range, School 2 less so (but has a lot of waitlist movement), and School 3 has something like a 3.7 avg, and I'm thinking the committee won't be giving up a spot to me unless they all go mad. My thoughts are to focus on the school that has less waitlist movement, but is closer to my numbers (School 1).

Now I want to try and map out what to do next year. I have heard that a post-bac to raise my undergrad GPA would look like I'm "padding" my GPA. In reality, even after a two years of good grades, I could potentially raise my undergrad GPA to maybe a 3.6. I might be better off in an SMP, and I have applied to a few of those.

I didn't study very long for the MCAT. I could take a significant amount of time off and work to raise that to something more impressive, and perhaps that might cause some adcomms to look past my undergrad GPA.

What do you think is a good route to go? I would prefer to stick with allopathic, US schools. It seems to me that the best thing to do is find time to raise my MCAT, do an SMP, and maintain a good GPA in that.

I appreciate any thoughts/advice about this. Thanks 🙂

Any school that waitlists you thinks that you are "good enough" to be admitted (but there aren't enough seats). Make a full-court press (find out if the school likes a lot of contact or none at all with regard to updates, letters of interest, etc). You could also ask the opinions of the deans of admission at the schools that waitlisted you. What do they think you could do to improve your application for next year? With any luck you won't have to reapply. The movement on the waitlist need only be ONE is the one is you!

 

[Anastasis]

LizzyM: You rock! I don't think you hear that enough from SDNers! We really appreciate the time you take to answer questions 🙂

 

[viciouz]

LizzyM: You rock! I don't think you hear that enough from SDNers! We really appreciate the time you take to answer questions 🙂

+1 👍

 

[mongrel]

I'm debating about whether to apply early decision to my in-state med school. If I were accepted there I would almost certainly attend. I guess what my question is, how many more applicants do ED programs usually admit as opposed to their regular admission (%-wise versus total apps in each case)?

Thanks a bunch and ditto the others on your devotion and helpfulness to us sorry bunch of pre-meds. 😉

 

[LizzyM]

I'm debating about whether to apply early decision to my in-state med school. If I were accepted there I would almost certainly attend. I guess what my question is, how many more applicants do ED programs usually admit as opposed to their regular admission (%-wise versus total apps in each case)?

Thanks a bunch and ditto the others on your devotion and helpfulness to us sorry bunch of pre-meds. 😉

Given your mdapp I think that you'd have a good shot at early decision at your state school. It would save you a bundle of money in application related expenses and wear and tear on your emotions. If you'd be happy there, do it. In undergrad, a higher percentage of ED applicants get admitted, compared to the proportion of regular applicants who get offers of admission. I wouldn't see why med school would be any different.

The school would be thrilled to lock in an excellent student as it makes them look great!

 

[prznpremed]

LizzyM: You rock! I don't think you hear that enough from SDNers! We really appreciate the time you take to answer questions 🙂

I second this, and I heart you. Thanks for taking your time to help 🙂

 

[CagedBird]

Hi adcomm, my question was overlooked so here goes again:
What is your stance on calling admissions offices for updates post-interview?

 

[LizzyM]

Hi adcomm, my question was overlooked so here goes again:
What is your stance on calling admissions offices for updates post-interview?

I have no knowledge of whether it helps or hurts. It does take someone's time and the number of interviewees usually numbers in the hundreds so you can imagine that fielding so many phone calls can be a task. Did the school tell you when you could expect to hear? Have others who interviewed at the same time heard? If it is 2 weeks past the date you were told and if others who interviewed at the same time have heard, then you might call to see if something were lost in the mail. Otherwise, I'd say no, it is unlikely to be of any value to you. (what are they going to say on the phone? only that your file is under review and you will hear eventually).

 

[CagedBird]

I have no knowledge of whether it helps or hurts. It does take someone's time and the number of interviewees usually numbers in the hundreds so you can imagine that fielding so many phone calls can be a task. Did the school tell you when you could expect to hear? Have others who interviewed at the same time heard? If it is 2 weeks past the date you were told and if others who interviewed at the same time have heard, then you might call to see if something were lost in the mail. Otherwise, I'd say no, it is unlikely to be of any value to you. (what are they going to say on the phone? only that your file is under review and you will hear eventually).

I understand that, they probably get tired of those phone calls. They didn't really give us a time line now that I think about it. It has been 6 weeks post-interview and some individuals who interviewed at the same time I did have heard back, that is why I asked. I did send something in the mail after my interview and I don't know for sure if it was put in my file. I never called any other schools for status updates but I asked because as April approaches, we all have decisions to make as far as where we will go, etc. and I was just hoping to get some closure from the schools I am still waiting to hear back from so I can make an all-encompassing decision....but I will wait and be patient. 🙂

 

[Kraazy]

First of all, thanks a million to the adcoms who are helping out on this thread. You rock.

Now, to my quandary: I plan to apply to MMSTPs this cycle, but I'm concerned that I may not have enough volunteering and clinical experience.
I did some formal volunteering my freshman year, then for the rest of college did mostly other ECs that had a community service component, but were not strictly speaking volunteering. I've been doing some translation for NGOs on a volunteer basis for ~1.5 yrs now, and volunteering in a hospital for ~3 months. I'm also working in clinical research, but with no patient contact, and I have no shadowing.

On a more positive note, I will have 3 yrs of research under my belt by the time I apply, and hopefully one publication. I also work full-time with academic physicians, and I plan on being one too. My GPA is ~3.6 sci, ~3.7 overall, and I have not yet taken the MCAT.

How much of an impact do you think my lack of clinical and volunteering experience will have on my app? Would it be worth waiting a year to beef up my clinical experience? If I apply this cycle, should I try to get in some shadowing first?

Thanks!

 

[freelove]

I’m at the end of my junior year, but I do have the option of graduating in December if I choose to do so, which would be a semester early. My parents and my advisor both think that it would be a good idea for me to graduate early and spend the next few months doing something interesting, like travel, volunteer work, research etc. before starting medical school in the fall.

I had wanted to finish out my senior year in the spring, which would allow me to take some extra classes in order to bring up my GPA, and then take a year off afterwards to do something interesting before I start medical school. My GPA is a 3.27 right now, and I really think it could use a boost in order to make me more competitive for medical school. Also, I feel like I have an “extra year” anyways, because I’m 19 right now, and will graduate at 20, because I skipped a grade in elementary school and started college at 16.

What do you think would be more advisable? Personally, I would like to graduate with a higher GPA, but my parents and advisors say that it would probably only increase about a point, which wouldn’t make much of a difference to the medical schools that I apply to. And increasing my GPA was the only reason I had considered staying an extra semester. Besides that, the only difference between the two options is that I would have about 7-8 mos. between college and medical school if I chose to finish early as opposed to an entire year.

Either way, I’m taking the MCAT in May, and will have all my major coursework finished by the end of the fall semester.

 

[LizzyM]

Now, to my quandary: I plan to apply to MMSTPs this cycle, <snip> I've been doing some translation for NGOs on a volunteer basis for ~1.5 yrs now, and volunteering in a hospital for ~3 months. I'm also working in clinical research, but with no patient contact, and I have no shadowing.

How much of an impact do you think my lack of clinical and volunteering experience will have on my app? Would it be worth waiting a year to beef up my clinical experience? If I apply this cycle, should I try to get in some shadowing first?

The MMSTP programs put less emphasis on clinical stuff. You have something which should be enough.

 

[LizzyM]

I’m at the end of my junior year, but I do have the option of graduating in December if I choose to do so, which would be a semester early. My parents and my advisor both think that it would be a good idea for me to graduate early and spend the next few months doing something interesting, like travel, volunteer work, research etc. before starting medical school in the fall.

I had wanted to finish out my senior year in the spring, which would allow me to take some extra classes in order to bring up my GPA, and then take a year off afterwards to do something interesting before I start medical school. My GPA is a 3.27 right now, and I really think it could use a boost in order to make me more competitive for medical school. Also, I feel like I have an “extra year” anyways, because I’m 19 right now, and will graduate at 20, because I skipped a grade in elementary school and started college at 16.

What do you think would be more advisable? Personally, I would like to graduate with a higher GPA, but my parents and advisors say that it would probably only increase about a point, which wouldn’t make much of a difference to the medical schools that I apply to. And increasing my GPA was the only reason I had considered staying an extra semester. Besides that, the only difference between the two options is that I would have about 7-8 mos. between college and medical school if I chose to finish early as opposed to an entire year.

Either way, I’m taking the MCAT in May, and will have all my major coursework finished by the end of the fall semester.

Your gpa is on the low side. You need to do something to bring it up. Given your age, you'd be foolish to leave school "early" even if you have enough credits to graduate. In fact, you might look into staying on for a M.S. program that would give you a research opportunity and perhaps a publication as a way of buffing your application.

I would also say that you'd be foolish to apply this summer with the hopes of interviews in the fall/winter. Even a 40T isn't going to make up for a tarnished gpa. Work on that and rock the MCAT. good luck convincing the 'rents.

 

[teammonkeys123]

whoops sorry!

 

[alexsmith]

hey adcom, ive interviewed at one school, and it just so happens to be my number one choice. ive already sent in a letter of intent, do you know what else i could do post-interview, before they make their decision, to make myself stand out or so show that i am truly 100% committed to their school. thanks

 

[LizzyM]

hey adcom, ive interviewed at one school, and it just so happens to be my number one choice. ive already sent in a letter of intent, do you know what else i could do post-interview, before they make their decision, to make myself stand out or so show that i am truly 100% committed to their school. thanks

No, I don't know of anything you can do to stand out.

 

[CremasterFlash]

Hoping to solicit your advice. My story:

I never really focused on grades until recently...

Graduated from top 5 lib arts school in 1993, 3.25 gpa entirely non-science/math.

Worked in finance for 12 years at Goldman Sachs, ultimately becoming a senior trader managing a medium-sized staff with very significant responsibilities to the profitability of the firm. Along the way (1999) got an MBA at Univ of Chicago with about a 3.4 gpa. After 9/11/01, I started volunteering at NYU's emergency department. It became my favorite part of the week (not because I disliked my job) and my passion.

One year ago, left finance and started Northwestern's postbacc, taking MANY extra science/math classes. 4.0 gpa with 11 classes completed and planning to take another 12 or so before applying.

Started as a volunteer and hired as a researcher at NU, have several posters/presentations so far and should have at least 1-2 publication credits before applying. Work 3 days/week. Have very strong recommendations from senior folks in the hospitals and professors (as well as former colleagues). Volunteer at a trauma center and received an honorarium for outstanding contribution to their efforts. Volunteer at a pediatric hospital, play with kids and try to make them feel better.

This is what I was built to do. I love my studies and know that I could be an outstanding physician. It just took me 13 years to figure that out.

Besides continuing to get A's and rocking the MCAT, any suggestions for overcoming my gale-force gpa headwinds?

I really appreciate any and all help you can provide. Your advice is tremendously helpful to all of us.

 

[Raazak]

What qualities do you look for most in an applicant? (I'm talking about stuff outside of good GPA/MCAT)

Which qualities in an applicant do you frown upon?


How are the essay and interview stages of the process different in terms of how you look at the applicant?

How do you tell an applicant is being insincere in a reply during an interview?

Thanks in advance for giving me the opportunity to pick adcomm brains, I've always been curious about this stuff.

 

[LizzyM]

Hoping to solicit your advice. My story:

<snip>
This is what I was built to do. I love my studies and know that I could be an outstanding physician. It just took me 13 years to figure that out.

If I were to read your application, I would note not only your UG gpa but your major and year of graduation and your post-bach and that gpa. That's all it would take to put you in the "consider for interview" pile rather than the "no interview" stack. Your post 9/11 story is not unique and my experience has been that adcoms look kindly on non-trad applicants who have an epiphany and pursue medicine with all the furvor of a convert.

 

[LizzyM]

What qualities do you look for most in an applicant? (I'm talking about stuff outside of good GPA/MCAT)

Which qualities in an applicant do you frown upon?


How are the essay and interview stages of the process different in terms of how you look at the applicant?

How do you tell an applicant is being insincere in a reply during an interview?

Thanks in advance for giving me the opportunity to pick adcomm brains, I've always been curious about this stuff.

Read the posts on the pre-allo forum, in particular the stickies, and ask specific questions. I'm not here to distill 80 years of wisdom into a single post for you.

 

[mongrel]

I have a question regarding research experiences. I have a very small amount of academic research VERY early in my undergrad career but the time spent, methods, and conclusions are hardly worth mentioning on a level of those who are published. On the other hand, I spent the first half of my undergrad mainly believing I wanted to work in the bioprocess industry as an engineer. Pursuing that I took a 7 month internship in industry, and in so did some large (and very successful) research projects on plant optimization. Of course the investigative process was the same as would be used in a college laboratory, only there it was spent in a fermentation plant and production lab. Granted this is non-medical but still bio-related, would this be considered "research" as adcoms see it? Or does the research have to occur in an academic setting with the possibility of being published? Thanks so much.😉

 

[LizzyM]

... believing I wanted to work in the bioprocess industry as an engineer. ...I took a 7 month internship in industry, and in so did some large (and very successful) research projects on plant optimization. ...would this be considered "research" as adcoms see it?

Put this in your list of ECs and in the explanation discuss what you learned about the research process and how the experience made you grow as an investigator.

 

[chevaliermalfet]

Hey LizzyM. I'd like to add my thanks for helping us poor pre-meds 🙂

I have a question about my potential re-application for next year if I find myself striking out this season. This year, I made several "application mistakes" such as waiting until early August 2006 to submit my AMCAS app, applying to schools that did not match up well with my interests and stats (i.e I applied to too many "reach" schools, and many of the other schools I suspect wanted to see research where all I had was clinical experience), as well as having some LOR hitches which delayed some of my secondaries. Since applying, I have just about finished my last year of undergrad, raised my GPA slightly, started a job as a chemistry tutor, and accepted a job as a camp counselor for the summer.

My question is, will fixing my previous mistakes (i.e by submitting the AMCAS in June, choosing some different schools, etc) have a significant effect on my admissions chances? I will have fixed my previous mistakes, but the application itself will not be too much different, having only those above listed things to add. Or should I wait until next year's application cycle (i.e the AMCAS for 2008), where I might be able to have made more significant improvements to my app?

Additionally, is it expected that if I should apply to some of the schools I applied to before, that I change my personal statement on the AMCAS and my answers on their secondaries?

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[banana5]

Hey Lizzy (and others),

No question - just a thank you!

 

[LizzyM]

Hey LizzyM. I'd like to add my thanks for helping us poor pre-meds 🙂

I have a question about my potential re-application for next year if I find myself striking out this season. This year, I made several "application mistakes" <snip>

You had several interviews, have one waitlist and are are awaiting decisions, so the game is not over yet. Apply early and better target schools next time out and you should have better luck. See if you can't find a research job for the 07/08 academic year and you'll have something good to talk about at your interviews.

 

[O Face]

Dearest Adcom,

I am from Bahrain. I have 3.2 gpa sciences, 2.9 gpa overall at ASU (go razorbacks!) . My visa is currently expired. MCAT is solidly 25. I have one simple question: how am i to get to medical school?

Much thanks. You can send me a personal message and we can discuss more in detail there.

 

[immunology4eva]

Hi, I'm a Canadian student with a few question.

I'm currently in my third year of a molecular biology program and getting ready to apply to American schools, as well as Canadian ones this year. I have a fairly good GPA (~3.8), and a 30 MCAT (9B/11P/10V/P), and am debating re-taking the MCAT to make myself more competitive. I was rejected pre-interview this year by all of the schools I applied to.

Also, I have decent extracurriculars. I have volunteered for a year as an EMT-equivalent, and I have also worked for over half a year as a personal care provider at a facility for individuals with acquired brain injuries. Also, I have good research experience, having completed one summer of full time research, and a year-long research project, in microbiology and immunology, respectively. As far non-academic EC's, which I'm not sure if American schools care about, I play in a moderately successful local band, generally playing one show per week.

What sort of chances do I have for American schools as a Canadian applicant, and also, should I retake the MCAT, as I understand that American school weigh this much more heavily than Canadian ones.

Thanks so much.

 

[Bernoull]

ADCOM:

I've struggled with a couple of questions about what exactly is clinical experience -from ADCOMs vantage point - for a while.

Scenarion 1:
I worked for 2yrs as a "delivery technician" making pharmaceutical deliveries and medical device deliveries/installations to patients @ both their homes and at health facilities. This afforded me the opportunity to interact with pts, nurses n other staff on a near daily basis.

Scenario 2:
My dad's an MD and when I was younger 6-16 yrs, I'll shadow him "informally though" a lot of times patients came to our house. I remember going on trips with him to different hospitals/clinics etc..

Scenario 3:
I have a chronic eye allergy for which I've constantly - for > a decade - had to see an opthalmologist for. I've seen different specialists in 3 continents over the years for my ongoing treatment.

Now to my questions,

1. Are these considered as clinical experience?? if not, why??
2. If none of these constitute "clinical experience" are they of any value to the Adcoms.

Personally I think a MD who has had significant experience as a patient has something that NO MED SCHOOL CAN TEACH N NO STUDENT CAN REALLY LEARN. The perspective one brings to the table, the capacity to empathize with patients etc.. i believe its invaluable.

 

[LizzyM]

ADCOM:

I've struggled with a couple of questions about what exactly is clinical experience -from ADCOMs vantage point - for a while.

Scenarion 1:
I worked for 2yrs as a "delivery technician" making pharmaceutical deliveries and medical device deliveries/installations to patients @ both their homes and at health facilities. This afforded me the opportunity to interact with pts, nurses n other staff on a near daily basis.

Not very impressive because it sounds like to you are just delivering items to people. You'd have to explain A LOT to convince an adcom that this was an experience of "smelling patients" (intense interaction with the sick).

Scenario 2:
My dad's an MD and when I was younger 6-16 yrs, I'll shadow him "informally though" a lot of times patients came to our house. I remember going on trips with him to different hospitals/clinics etc..

Most adcom members won't look for more shadowing experience if you have a parent who is a physician but you will be expected to have additional clinical experience beyond that of being an offspring of a physician. Furthermore, you should have a foot in the door thanks to a parent who is a physician so getting clinical experience with the parent's colleagues should be relatively easy.

Scenario 3:
I have a chronic eye allergy for which I've constantly - for > a decade - had to see an opthalmologist for. I've seen different specialists in 3 continents over the years for my ongoing treatment.

As someone once said, you are applying to be a student at the medical school, not a patient. You care about yourself and your loved ones. Having an experience of caring about and being of service to strangers is what you should be getting out of a clinical experience. You can say that someone was a role model for you but you should have additional clinical experience beyond having been a patient.

 

[mongrel]

Given your mdapp I think that you'd have a good shot at early decision at your state school. It would save you a bundle of money in application related expenses and wear and tear on your emotions. If you'd be happy there, do it. In undergrad, a higher percentage of ED applicants get admitted, compared to the proportion of regular applicants who get offers of admission. I wouldn't see why med school would be any different.

The school would be thrilled to lock in an excellent student as it makes them look great!

After a little reading from old SDN posts, I have a follow up about my early decision to my state school question. Would applying ED affect the financial aid package I might be offered? I don't know how it works, but I've gathered that schools sometimes use them to lure students. With early decision it would almost seem like I'm shooting myself in the foot (as unfair as it might be). It makes sense, but is there any truth in this? Thanks a bunch.

 

[LizzyM]

After a little reading from old SDN posts, I have a follow up about my early decision to my state school question. Would applying ED affect the financial aid package I might be offered? I don't know how it works, but I've gathered that schools sometimes use them to lure students. With early decision it would almost seem like I'm shooting myself in the foot (as unfair as it might be). It makes sense, but is there any truth in this? Thanks a bunch.

In undergrad it is the case that early decision matriculants don't always get offered as much financial aid because the school need not engage in a bidding war to lure the student. Ergo, in undergrad admissions, it is argued that ED attracks applicants of high socioeconomic status who don't need financial aid.

Could you do better than in-state tuition at your state school by being admitted to a upper tier school that offers an enticing financial aid package? Maybe. However, consider that you would need to apply to at least 10 schools, and spend thousands of dollars in application fees, travel expenses, wardrobe and the emotional rollar coaster of waiting for admission decisions. Also, you need to consider the teaching style of the school, the location (keeping in mind the cost of traveling between school and "home" to family), and the school's mission (do you want to be an academic physician?) Some of the lower tier private schools also offer financial aid to lure away applicants who have to choose, for example, between a lower tier school and an Ivy.

Are you most interested in being a doc in private practice and living in your home state? Then your state school might be the best fit for you and your goals. If you'd rather travel the country preparing for a position as an academic physician with the understanding that you'll move every three to four years as you climb the ladder, then moving to a top tier medical school is the first rung on the ladder.

 

[Bernoull]

Maaan, QUITE SOBERING ANSWERS ADCOM!!!!!!.... I'm glad I asked.. THANKS A LOT OF THE INDEPTH ANSWERS!!!

It really seems to me that this "clinical experience" can be quite elusive almost like a mirage at times.

Anyway I got a follow-up question. I've been volunteering at a nursing home for 2 months now @ the Therapeutic/Activities Dept. My duties include:
a) Transporting pts as needed (to dinner, other depts. etc)
b) Performing one-on-one surveys with pts. regarding their rehab/care/general concerns
c) Help set up games and activites with I participate in with them (play bingo, bible study etc.)
d) Supply pts with reading materials n games (puzzles, etc..)
e) Ensure that their calenders and other miscellaneous items r up to date.
f) Change some pt's therapeutic music (which is part of their care/treatment) as required.

Is this any better clinical experience? does it pass ur "smell test"
{Not very impressive because it sounds like to you are just delivering items to people. You'd have to explain A LOT to convince an adcom that this was an experience of "smelling patients" (intense interaction with the sick).}

I may have only 6-7 mos of this by the time a apply, but I intend to continue it until I matriculate. Is this time (6-7 mos) too short or would my informal shadowing with my dad make up?


"Furthermore, you should have a foot in the door thanks to a parent who is a physician so getting clinical experience with the parent's colleagues should be relatively easy."

Good point, I never seriously considered this bcos my dad schooled in Europe n he practises there, but he should know people on this side of the Atlantic besides he comes to the CDC quite a bit. I'll definitely explore this option.

"As someone once said, you are applying to be a student at the medical school, not a patient. . .You can say that someone was a role model for you but you should have additional clinical experience beyond having been a patient."

That's quite a refreshing way to look of this. I never saw it from this angle b4. My motivation and passion for medicine is fed by a number of things not the least my extensive experience as a patient. Do you think that drawing on some of this experience (with regards to y I want to be a physician) would be helpful in my PS? I'm cognisant of ur point that I'm not applying to M-Sch to become a pt; nonetheless this is one of the important motivators for me?

Please forgive me but I'll like to squeeze a final one in.
I had a downward trend in my senior yr - I was consistent @ 3.8-3.9 thruout my 1st 2.5 yrs then I had a horrible 1.8 semester, then for my final semester 3.1 resulting in 3.4 cumn 3.5 BCPM. The reason for this spectacular academic plunge being family deaths.

Am I doomed as far as the academic portion of the evaluation goes. (I"m taking the MCAT this July n I'm confident of >30).

Is some form of academic remediation inevitable?
A few caveats: I did research, scholarly presentations, worked full-time and still graduated in 3.5yrs while taking heavy courseloads...
Any comments on this -from ADCOM's perspective - will be highly welcomed🙂 🙂 🙂

THANK YOU

 

[Chulito]

Lizzy-

Just for clarification, do you think that a student with several acceptances at good schools (but stats that are just pretty good rather than tantalizingly good) would do well to hold onto all acceptances until financial aid offers are made? Imagine, for example, that you had been accepted to UNC-CH, UW-Seattle and UCSF, one of which is your state school. Would the two out-of-state schools (or even your in-state school) be more likely to sweeten the pot if they were to see that you have other good acceptances? If your state school is your first choice (financial-aid considerations aside) would it be a mistake to withdraw from the other two schools in order to liberate spots for other applicants, because you would be relinquishing your leverage in "negotiations" of institutional financial aid?

 

[TinyHineyRikki]

LizzyM,
I was waitlisted at my top choice of school last year and didn't get in. The dean told me that I needed more volunteer experience. I was wondering how much is significant in a year. 50 hrs.? 75hrs? 100 hrs? I have been volunteering 4 hrs. a week since this jan. It is hard to do more since I go to grad. school and have a full time medically related job. I have also improved in every other area he told me to. I was wondering what my chances would be of acceptance to that school this coming cycle.
Thank you
THR

 

[LizzyM]

Lizzy-

Just for clarification, do you think that a student with several acceptances at good schools (but stats that are just pretty good rather than tantalizingly good) would do well to hold onto all acceptances until financial aid offers are made? ....

I have no experience with financial aid so I have no basis on which to answer this question.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM,
I was waitlisted at my top choice of school last year and didn't get in. The dean told me that I needed more volunteer experience. I was wondering how much is significant in a year. 50 hrs.? 75hrs? 100 hrs? I have been volunteering 4 hrs. a week since this jan. It is hard to do more since I go to grad. school and have a full time medically related job. I have also improved in every other area he told me to. I was wondering what my chances would be of acceptance to that school this coming cycle.
Thank you
THR

4 hours per week from last January until whenever you complete your last interview should be sufficient (~200 hours, no?). The period of time (3 months and counting) is more significant that the total number of hours; stick with it.

 

[LizzyM]

had a downward trend in my senior yr - I was consistent @ 3.8-3.9 thruout my 1st 2.5 yrs then I had a horrible 1.8 semester, then for my final semester 3.1 resulting in 3.4 cumn 3.5 BCPM. The reason for this spectacular academic plunge being family deaths.
Am I doomed as far as the academic portion of the evaluation goes.

Talk with your premed advisor and also with any sympathetic faculty member who was teaching you during that period. A LOR or committee letter that mentions the uncharacteristic performance during the semester when you had the deaths in the family is usually reassuring to an adcom. This is better coming in a LOR than in your personal statement (although that's an option is the LOR thing isn't going to work out).

PS: nursing home experinece is a satisfactory clinical experience particularly if you have, in the past, shadowed your dad.

PPS: You can mention being a pt in your personal statement, just leave it off the "experiences" section.

 

[grinchick5]

Wow! What a great resource. Thanks adcoms for contributing to this thread. Maybe you can answer me this…

Say I knew a junior in college who has recently decided that he wants to attend medical school. His GPA isn’t stellar (<3.5) and he hasn’t yet completed his pre-reqs. Should this individual stay in UG for an extra year to complete his pre-reqs and boost his UG GPA? Or, should he graduate with his bachelors and take his pre-reqs in masters/post-bac program?

I voted option one. However, official adcom advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Bernoull]

Lizzy please stick around on this forum 4 a long long time. You are truly an INVALUABLE RESOURCE. Your responses are authoritative, highly helpful and surgically precise. Your presence is appreciated.

Long Live Lizzy!!!!!!!!!

 

[LizzyM]

Wow! What a great resource. Thanks adcoms for contributing to this thread. Maybe you can answer me this&#8230;

Say I knew a junior in college who has recently decided that he wants to attend medical school. His GPA isn't stellar (<3.5) and he hasn't yet completed his pre-reqs. Should this individual stay in UG for an extra year to complete his pre-reqs and boost his UG GPA? Or, should he graduate with his bachelors and take his pre-reqs in masters/post-bac program?

I voted option one. However, official adcom advice would be much appreciated.

I'd vote for a post-bac at an established, well regarded post-bac program. Here's why: the advisors and the LORs that these programs provide are fabulous. Most are also excellent at helping you make connections with volunteer service and research employment and those added to your application tend to make the whole package very strong. Furthermore, it adds to the "this is why I decided to change careers" flavor of your application.

I don't usually see this from a college student who changes horses in mid-stream but stays at the same school.

 

[pinkipod]

Hello.

I graduated from undergrad institution that was Pass/Fail freshman year. Because the institution's program was structured so everyone took the basic science courses freshman year, I had inadvertently taken a lot of premed requirement courses as pass/fail.

also,
Intro biology and Intro chemistry was a 1 semester course,
Physics classes didn't have labs
How would this be looked at?
Should I go ahead and take these courses again at another institution per med school prereqs? Or do the medical schools recognize the uniquness of the program?

 

[Bernoull]

Lizzy I apologize for being a pest....... but allow to gain from your knowledge a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernoull
Would taking higher lever undergrad courses (stand-alone classes) especially BCPMs after graduation prop up (marginally, of course) your undergrad gpa.

yes, people claim that post-bac classes do factor into your undergrad gpa.

Can you end the speculation on these questions -

1. Are post-graduation undergrad courses (standalone upperlevels &/or postbac ones) included in Amcas's ungergrad gpa calculation?
2. Do ADCOMs evaluate these extra courses together with or separate from "undergrad curricular" ones?
3. How is a 2nd undergrad degree (e.g. 1st Degree- Biology, 2nd = Biochem) taken a yr or two after the first one treated? Are all gpa lumped 2gether n averaged? Is it (2nd degree) viewed any different from a post-bac by ADCOMs?

Thanks, your time is greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!

 

[LizzyM]

Hello.

I graduated from undergrad institution that was Pass/Fail freshman year. Because the institution's program was structured so everyone took the basic science courses freshman year, I had inadvertently taken a lot of premed requirement courses as pass/fail.

also,
Intro biology and Intro chemistry was a 1 semester course,
Physics classes didn't have labs
How would this be looked at?
Should I go ahead and take these courses again at another institution per med school prereqs? Or do the medical schools recognize the uniquness of the program?

Does your UG institution have a pre-professional/pre-med office? Check there to learn about the experience of other students from your school who have applied to medical school. Sometimes, the unique features of the curriculum will be explained in a document that is sent along with the LORs. If the school doesn't send many/any graduates on to medical school, then you should check with a couple of medical schools and ask what the policy is regarding a situation like yours. You might be advised to repeat the courses in a post-bac. Check with the med. schools. (April-July tends to be a slow time of year for most med schools so now is a good time to call).

 

[LizzyM]

Can you end the speculation on these questions -

1. Are post-graduation undergrad courses (standalone upperlevels &/or postbac ones) included in Amcas's ungergrad gpa calculation?
2. Do ADCOMs evaluate these extra courses together with or separate from "undergrad curricular" ones?
3. How is a 2nd undergrad degree (e.g. 1st Degree- Biology, 2nd = Biochem) taken a yr or two after the first one treated? Are all gpa lumped 2gether n averaged? Is it (2nd degree) viewed any different from a post-bac by ADCOMs?

Oye! You would ask at the point in the year when I don't have any appies on my desk.

The AMCAS displays the gpa in a table that lists across the top
BCMP gpa/credits taken/AO*gpa/credits taken/total gpa/credits taken. The rows are academic years. IIRC, a fifth year of undergrad before receiving a degree gets lumped in with the 4th year. Post-bac is shown as an additional year, IIRC and graduate school is shown as an additional year.

My school has a summary screen (we review electronic files) that shows undergrad gpa, BCPM gpa, post-bac total gpa & BCPM gpa and grad school gpa.

In addition, we see every course grade by number and name as these are all listed (and verified against your transcript) by AMCAS.

At my school, two or three med school faculty members actually go over ever inch of your application before an interview is granted. It is hard to say how all the information gets integrated into an assessment of your academic acheivement and how that is taken into account when making interview decisions.


*AO: All other

 

[liukuyjytfhtrdg]

Hello, i just have a few questions. I've only been in the U.S for six and a half years. I didn't speak, write or read english by the time i arrived, yet i studied very hard on my own and was able to bring my English to an intermediate level within a two year period. I started my undergrad studies on 2003 and held a full time job throughout my entire undergrad career. At first, my grades didn't suffer because the jobs i had merely required physical effort; however, all of that changed during my sophomore year when i got a job in the graveyard shift in order to avoid schedule conflicts. During most of my junior year my GPA had a downward trend mainly because of sheer exhaustion and time constraints. During my senior year i gave it all i had a was able to bring my grades up a bit. I ended up graduating a semester early with a 3.49 overall GPA and a 3.26 BCMP. I've been thinking of taking some post-baccalaureate classes to bring my GPA up, however, that is not a financially viable option at the time (i'm utterly broke). Because of obvious reasons i didn't amass any volunteer or research experinces during my undergrad studies; however, i did translate for my mother in each and every medical appointment she has had since we've been here. Since i graduated i've been working as a research specialist at a fairly reputable medical school; furthermore, i've been volunteering as an interpreter at a local hospital and i hope to have over 200 hours before i re-apply. The first time that i took the MCAT i was taking 15 credits plus my full time job, so even though i tried to prepare well my score ended up being less than desirable (5P, 9V, 8B, M). I've been preparing to take it again since january and i really hope i'll be able to break 30.

Anyway, my questions are:
Will med schools understand the reasons behind some of my academic downfalls?
Will my clinical experince be not only suficient but meaningful to ADCOMs?
Is there anything else i could do to better my credentials for the upcoming application cycle?
If i get a good score when i re-take the MCAT, would i have a realistic shot of getting in?

Thank you for your time and i a pologize for the length of my post.

 

[Wasik]

Lizzy,

Thanks for all of your help on SDN, it is definitely appreciated. I had a quick question regarding some topics that adcoms like to see discussed in the PS of someone who had a late interest in medicine (junior year). If feel like in need to explain that medicine wasn't what I had wanted to do and explain why it is I want to do it now. Although after reading the SDN threads on PS, it seems as though many caution against saying something to the effect of "growing up i didn't want to be a doctor," because it is used as often as "growing up I only wanted to be a doctor." Although in my case it seems difficult to say anything else otherwise, as I would imagine adcoms would want to know why someone like me has no prior indication of any inclination towards medicine before my switch, and would like to know why I left other interesting opportunities for medicine. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated .

 

[LizzyM]

Anyway, my questions are:
Will med schools understand the reasons behind some of my academic downfalls?
Will my clinical experince be not only suficient but meaningful to ADCOMs?
Is there anything else i could do to better my credentials for the upcoming application cycle?
If i get a good score when i re-take the MCAT, would i have a realistic shot of getting in?

Yes.
Yes, if you are providing interpreter services to strangers (not just family).
Taking some additonal upper level science courses might help.
Maybe, it depends on where and when you apply. Don't reapply unless you can do 10 10 10 on the MCAT.

 

[LizzyM]

If feel like in need to explain that medicine wasn't what I had wanted to do and explain why it is I want to do it now.

What careers did you consider before deciding upon medicine? How were you preparing for that career and/or what attracted you to that career? What attracts you to medicine as a career? (leave out dead grandmothers, your life threatening illness, "road to Damacus" experiences, etc) and go to what you know about a career in medicine and why you think that you can make it your life's work.

 

[viciouz]

Sorry Lizzy to bother you again,

I feel like I need to explain myself in my personal statement as to why my GPA really sucked freshmen year with a paragraph or two. I had a few family hardships my freshmen year and adjusting to the college atmosphere took a bit of time... should I explain this in my personal statement?

My dad had troubles with the law and spent time in jail, so I had to take care of a depressed mom and help out with my family a lot. Also had two family members pass away and a diabetic grandpa that I come home to every weekend to see/help, which has ultimately lead me to decide that medicine is what I want to do at the end of my freshmen year.