Adderall to do it all?

[kthxbai]

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So in other words semantics and not enough of a difference. Except one comes in liquid form and one is in pill form.

Coffee is available to everyone. Adderall isn't. Can you really not see the difference between these two?

 

[DermViser]

Coffee is available to everyone. Adderall isn't. Can you really not see the difference between these two?

That's the line between ok and not ok for you? That's your reasoning? You really think caffeine doesn't come in prescription form and is some how special?

 

[kthxbai]

That's the line between ok and not ok for you? That's your reasoning? You really think caffeine doesn't come in prescription form and is some how special?

Don't be thick. And before you patronize check your logic. Oh, and stop trying to prove a trend with outlying examples. You see, in logic degrees matter.

Most of us don't use prescription strength caffeine to gain advantage. That would be as wrong as popping Adderall when you don't have so much as a drop of ADD. Now, those two you can classify together. When it comes to coffee/tea I stand by the same point: that form of caffeine is available to everyone. That's why any advantage gained from it will be counteracted by everyone else's consumption.

 

[DermViser]

Don't be thick. And before you patronize check your logic. Oh, and stop trying to prove a trend with outlying examples. You see, in logic degrees matter.

Most of us don't use prescription strength caffeine to gain advantage. That would be as wrong as popping Adderall when you don't have so much as a drop of ADD. Now, those two you can classify together. When it comes to coffee/tea I stand by the same point: that form of caffeine is available to everyone. That's why any advantage gained from it will be counteracted by everyone else's consumption.

You're right, it's available OTC in pill form. Have you not heard of Vivarin or No Doz?

 

[Aerus]

In medicine, where you will be working 24 hour shifts, "give or take" (used to be 30, "give or take", when I was an intern), you will be pulling lots of "all-nighters" without the opportunity for "well placed naps." You may end up needing to rethink your anti-caffeine/coffee stance.

I wish there was a better legal, nonprescription solution, but for generations this has been the best residents have come up with.

I realize that and have no anti-caffeine and anti-coffee stance. I look forward to using coffee when I'll actually need it. I just don't see the need for all nighters and coffee as a premed. As a premed, Coffee and all nighters are a choice unless you have extenuating circumstances like a full time job, a job with a lot of nights, or a super long commute.


Sent from The World Tree using SDN Mobile

 

[kthxbai]

You're right, it's available OTC in pill form. Have you not heard of Vivarin or No Doz?

The mode of delivery doesn't matter. Once again, OTC caffeine pills (or in the form of spray, drinks, injection, cosmic rays, etc) are available to everyone. I haven't used them because I don't like what excessive caffeine does to my body, but I won't bat an eyelash if someone does. The issue with Adderral is this: it isn't available to everyone. It confers unfair advantage because only some people have access to it.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

[DermViser]

The mode of delivery doesn't matter. Once again, OTC caffeine pills (or in the form of spray, drinks, injection, cosmic rays, etc) are available to everyone. I haven't used them because I don't like what excessive caffeine does to my body, but I won't bat an eyelash if someone does. The issue with Adderral is this: it isn't available to everyone. It confers unfair advantage because only some people have access to it.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

So again, your judgement as to whether Adderall is ok to use or not is it's accessibility to the public not the ACTUAL, INHERENT PROPERTIES of the substance itself. Good to know.

 

[DermViser]

I realize that and have no anti-caffeine and anti-coffee stance. I look forward to using coffee when I'll actually need it. I just don't see the need for all nighters and coffee as a premed. As a premed, Coffee and all nighters are a choice unless you have extenuating circumstances like a full time job, a job with a lot of nights, or a super long commute.

Sent from The World Tree using SDN Mobile

I agree. Using caffeine when it's not necessary or bc you willingly chose to procrastinate and now are suffering the consequences and thus now have to use caffeine is silly. Use it when you have to use it.

 

[Mr Roboto]

That's what I said to an attending at work when she asked why I don't drink coffee. I know that in med school/residency I'll need caffeine, and I'd like it to be effective, so I'm not establishing a baseline 2 cup/day routine now!

I realize that and have no anti-caffeine and anti-coffee stance. I look forward to using coffee when I'll actually need it. I just don't see the need for all nighters and coffee as a premed.

 

[Mr Roboto]

With insurance a single dose of addy costs me $0.16. Without insurance it would be $1, on the street $5.

Coffee stains your teeth and causes gastritis. Also it tastes bad.

It's nonprescription, a LOT cheaper (except at Starbucks) and the side effect profile is a little bit better.
But mostly it's just more culturally accepted to have a cup of coffee than pop pills.

 

[Law2Doc]

With insurance a single dose of addy costs me $0.16. Without insurance it would be $1, on the street $5.

Coffee stains your teeth and causes gastritis. Also it tastes bad.

In the hospital (in most places of employment actually) coffee can be found for free.

I think cultural differences shouldn't be ignored. In the US people use alcohol for recreation but recreational drugs are taboo. Similarly we use caffeine as an accepted stimulant but other medications require a prescription. No point debating it. It's part of the culture now. Yes you are abusing the system and doing something culturally reprehensible if you get a prescription for a condition you don't have. No going to Starbucks and getting hopped up on coffee isn't the same thing. no real debate is of value because you can disagree with a culture but it's still going to be the culture whether you like it or not. Your own sensibilities and rationalization a are irrelevant.

 

[kthxbai]

So again, your judgement as to whether Adderall is ok to use or not is it's accessibility to the public not the ACTUAL, INHERENT PROPERTIES of the substance itself. Good to know.

Inherent properties shouldn't come into play because they're not the ones deciding whether Adderall is good or bad (specifically regarding enhancing performance). What makes it fair vs unfair is its relative accessibility to the public. You're arguing about how it should be judged based on its composition, but that's not relevant in this discussion.

 

[KnuxNole]

Adderall is necessary for people with ADHD...noone here is denying that(unless they are delusional haha). If you do have ADHD, and a stimulant helps to get through the day and focus, more power to you. I don't think anyone should feel bad for taking it.

 

[kthxbai]

So again, your judgement as to whether Adderall is ok to use or not is it's accessibility to the public not the ACTUAL, INHERENT PROPERTIES of the substance itself. Good to know.

You're really not getting it, are you.

Do you know what the scope of the discussion is?

EDIT: this goes to the following: my judgement about composition is irrelevant.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Have fun improperly using sympathomimetics, kids.

I'll stick with frequent naps and mnemonics.

 

[Doudline]

In the hospital (in most places of employment actually) coffee can be found for free.

I think cultural differences shouldn't be ignored. In the US people use alcohol for recreation but recreational drugs are taboo. Similarly we use caffeine as an accepted stimulant but other medications require a prescription. No point debating it. It's part of the culture now. Yes you are abusing the system and doing something culturally reprehensible if you get a prescription for a condition you don't have. No going to Starbucks and getting hopped up on coffee isn't the same thing. no real debate is of value because you can disagree with a culture but it's still going to be the culture whether you like it or not. Your own sensibilities and rationalization a are irrelevant.

Ridiculous.

Behaviors/customs are not ethically acceptable because they are part of our "culture".
If reprehensible beliefs -racism, homophobia, mysogyny, ...- in North America have diminished in influence it is precisely because people have stood up and went against the "common sense" of our culture. It is utterly insane -and saddening- to me that an intelligent, educated person would suggest to go against logic and scientific evidence to fulfil the niche of socially acceptable behavior.

If you admit that Adderall and coffee are roughly equivalent in their effects and counterbalances, you should strive as a professional to change the belief that they might not be, not contribute to the gimmick show. (Not saying that you should advocate for the consumption of either, but that both should be equally reprehensible/acceptable if they have the same outcomes.)

 

[Evisju7]

Okay, there is a difference between abusing a drug and using it. I'm prescribed adderall and take it sparingly (like 1/2 doses, and not daily)

Exercise is great.
I'm addicted to coffee
I drink green tea every morning

Showering is also really nice. If I'm tired and don't want to study anymore: 30 min run, warm meal, shower, coffee, and hit the library

 

[DermViser]

Inherent properties shouldn't come into play because they're not the ones deciding whether Adderall is good or bad (specifically regarding enhancing performance). What makes it fair vs unfair is its relative accessibility to the public. You're arguing about how it should be judged based on its composition, but that's not relevant in this discussion.

You're right it doesn't which is why you have no case. It's pretty much you pounding your fists saying, "He gets it but I can't have it!" as a reason why it's bad. I could care less about the composition, I'm more concerned about it's effects. And I'm not even a marijuana legalizer supporter.

 

[kthxbai]

You're right it doesn't which is why you have no case. It's pretty much you pounding your fists saying, "He gets it but I can't have it!" as a reason why it's bad. I could care less about the composition, I'm more concerned about it's effects. And I'm not even a marijuana legalizer supporter.

Waiiitttttt..... I'm right, composition doesn't matter (although you've been citing that like those are the only facts around), but I still have no case...

DerpyDerm, I've got to say you got me all confounded - and that rarely happens. Your problem isn't your stance (which is a personal belief, so it's as good as anyone else's), it's that you can't stick to clear parameters in your argument. My head's all spinning. Night now!

 

[DermViser]

Waiiitttttt..... I'm right, composition doesn't matter (although you've been citing that like those are the only facts around), but I still have no case...

DerpyDerm, I've got to say you got me all confounded - and that rarely happens. Your problem isn't your stance (which is a personal belief, so it's as good as anyone else's), it's that you can't stick to clear parameters in your argument. My head's all spinning. Night now!

Yes, the actual components of the substance doesn't matter to me. I could care less about the organic molecular structure of adderall vs. caffeine. My issue is the pharmacodynamics of the substance. Not that hard to figure out, but glad you finally did.

 

[Law2Doc]

Ridiculous.

Behaviors/customs are not ethically acceptable because they are part of our "culture".
If reprehensible beliefs -racism, homophobia, mysogyny, ...- in North America have diminished in influence it is precisely because people have stood up and went against the "common sense" of our culture. It is utterly insane -and saddening- to me that an intelligent, educated person would suggest to go against logic and scientific evidence to fulfil the niche of socially acceptable behavior.

If you admit that Adderall and coffee are roughly equivalent in their effects and counterbalances, you should strive as a professional to change the belief that they might not be, not contribute to the gimmick show. (Not saying that you should advocate for the consumption of either, but that both should be equally reprehensible/acceptable if they have the same outcomes.)

Whats "ridiculous" is that you are trying to compare racism and adderall use. Please. There are things that are smoked, drank and ingested in this country because of a history dating back to the inception. Coffee, booze and tobacco were in use from this countries inception and as a result have special treatment under our laws despite powerful medicinal and health effects. That's just part of our culture. It's not the same as human rights issues and pretty reprehensible of you to call that comparable culturally - you don't win arguments by looking for illogical extremes to compare to, sorry. That's what's "utterly insane and maddening" here.

And no, I certainly didn't "admit adderall and coffee are roughly equivalent in effects and counterbalances" -- you are misquoting me. I said adderall had a different side effect profile and was a prescription med and that caffeine was cheaper and more cultural accepted. I didn't say the effects are roughly the same (they aren't - totally different pharmacological category and mechanism) nor did I say the "counterbalances" are roughly equivalent (assuming you are talking about side effects I said exactly the opposite).

You don't win the point with absurd comparisons and misquotes, and even to belittle other posters by throwing in words like ridiculous, insane or maddening. You just failed debating 101. You might get a job on FOX TV though.

 

[DermViser]

And no, I certainly didn't "admit adderall and coffee are roughly equivalent in effects and counterbalances" -- you are misquoting me. I said adderall had a different side effect profile and was a prescription med and that caffeine was cheaper and more cultural accepted. I didn't say the effects are roughly the same (they aren't - totally different pharmacological category and mechanism) nor did I say the "counterbalances" are roughly equivalent (assuming you are talking about side effects I said exactly the opposite).

You said the side effects for coffee: "side effect profile is a little bit better." -- so in other words, not a big difference.

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

You don't win the point with absurd comparisons and misquotes, and even to belittle other posters by throwing in words like ridiculous, insane or maddening. You just failed debating 101. You might get a job on FOX TV though.

🤣

 

[BABSstudent]

I eat healthy, exercise and sleep at least 7 hours a night. Nothing else is needed.

I'll just quote myself from my original post from last year. Still don't need coffee as a second year medical student. You just need to manage your time well, exercise and eat right.

 

[Law2Doc]

You said the side effects for coffee: "side effect profile is a little bit better." -- so in other words, not a big difference.

I don't agree that your conclusion follows from what I said. I said caffeine was nonprescription and the side effect profile was a little better. To me that's not saying they are roughly equivlent meds. That's pointing out two differences. These meds have different purposes, work on different pharmacological mechanism. They have different side effects. They have different drug interactions. So "equivalent" is simply a false word here and not one I used or would use. in terms of safety, yeah, I'd say they are both pretty unhealthy, and that if not for our national history, caffeine would also be a prescription med.

 

[DermViser]

I don't agree that your conclusion follows from what I said. I said caffeine was nonprescription and the side effect profile was a little better. To me that's not saying they are roughly equivlent meds. That's pointing out two differences. These meds have different purposes, work on different pharmacological mechanism. They have different side effects. They have different drug interactions. So "equivalent" is simply a false word here and not one I used or would use. in terms of safety, yeah, I'd say they are both pretty unhealthy, and that if not for our national history, caffeine would also be a prescription med.

But what's the diffference btw a nonprescription vs. prescription med in real terms?

 

[Being]

in terms of safety, yeah, I'd say they are both pretty unhealthy, and that if not for our national history, caffeine would also be a prescription med.

On what grounds do you call caffeine "pretty unhealthy"? A quick search on pubmed makes it appear that caffeine is fine in moderation.

Based on the data reviewed, it is concluded that for the healthy adult population, moderate daily caffeine intake at a dose level up to 400 mg day(-1) (equivalent to 6 mg kg(-1) body weight day(-1) in a 65-kg person) is not associated with adverse effects

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12519715

 

[Evisju7]

On what grounds do you call caffeine "pretty unhealthy"? A quick search on pubmed makes it appear that caffeine is fine in moderation.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12519715

I love these. Who drinks two cups of coffee per day?! One venti black at fourbucks and I'm over the healthy limit, darn.

 

[Evisju7]

The moral of the story is that ADHD is like any medical disorder and needs to be treated as such. You wouldn't question and joke about a person's diabetes. If you do, you shouldn't go anywhere near the medical profession.

Yeah, but most people prescribed with ADHD meds don't have ADHD. So we can joke about them (and me).

 

[Evisju7]

I'll just quote myself from my original post from last year. Still don't need coffee as a second year medical student. You just need to manage your time well, exercise and eat right.

For me, it's not about needing coffee. I really enjoy coffee and drink it at all times, not just to stay awake.

 

[boltedbicorne]

The moral of the story is that ADHD is like any medical disorder and needs to be treated as such. You wouldn't question and joke about a person's diabetes. If you do, you shouldn't go anywhere near the medical profession.

best post in this thread. there are so many misconceptions about ADHD in this thread and in the real world it's unbelievable. You really hit the nail on the head. Claiming ADHD is bs and meds are a crutch is no less ignorant than telling someone with depression to "get the **** over it" or tell someone who is in a wheel chair to get out of it and try walking. Proper treatment of ADHD can improve lives in just about every way and does.

Yeah, but most people prescribed with ADHD meds don't have ADHD. So we can joke about them (and me).

You have no idea what you're talking about, so do me a favor and just stop talking.

 

[Being]

I love these. Who drinks two cups of coffee per day?! One venti black at fourbucks and I'm over the healthy limit, darn.

Fair enough I guess. The majority of coffee drinkers probably consume more than a "moderate" amount every day...

 

[Law2Doc]

But what's the diffference btw a nonprescription vs. prescription med in real terms?

not sure I understand the question. We have a process to bring drugs to market. The government decides based on the data it is provided whether something is safe enough to be nonprescription.

 

[Law2Doc]

The moral of the story is that ADHD is like any medical disorder and needs to be treated as such. You wouldn't question and joke about a person's diabetes. If you do, you shouldn't go anywhere near the medical profession.

If a person was taking insulin and probably shouldn't be, I sure would question it. Insulin btw has been known to be abused by non diabetics. You'd be a bad doctor if you DIDNT question it.

 

[Law2Doc]

i have a test tomorrow on this. why would a non-diabetic abuse insulin? for the 'rush' of low blood sugar? why don't they just sniff airplane glue

I think there are dieting benefits. (Real or perceived). This was one of the defenses raised in the Sunny Von Bulow trial a few decades back I believe.

 

[pre med 2014]

Wow, no need to be so butthurt over this. If you can't face life without lubricating it with drugs that's your problem. I do things cleanly because it IS better.

Besides, the point of med school isn't to party/do drugs just to pass tests. It's to become a DOCTOR. Let me remind you what that means: succeed on your own merit - independently from performance enhances. Seriously now, no sarcasm intended, why are YOU going to become a doctor then? What's the point if you can't hack it au natural?

I'm sure the people who go to 'just pass' do better than you on exams. Don't be such a hard working republican.

Same as people who just want to 'finish' their first marathon and run a 3h0Xm

People always downplay how much they work so they look smarter/faster during assessment time

 

[kthxbai]

I'm sure the people who go to 'just pass' do better than you on exams. Don't be such a hard working republican.

Same as people who just want to 'finish' their first marathon and run a 3h0Xm

People always downplay how much they work so they look smarter/faster during assessment time

Ah, another one. Although I have no idea what your comment is supposed to achieve...

Did I ever mentioned hard work? Did it ever come into play in this discussion? No, because it's completely beyond the scope of the argument. All I said is that achieving your goal with no drugs >>>> with drugs.

 

[Aerus]

best post in this thread. there are so many misconceptions about ADHD in this thread and in the real world it's unbelievable. You really hit the nail on the head. Claiming ADHD is bs and meds are a crutch is no less ignorant than telling someone with depression to "get the **** over it" or tell someone who is in a wheel chair to get out of it and try walking. Proper treatment of ADHD can improve lives in just about every way and does.



You have no idea what you're talking about, so do me a favor and just stop talking.

You seem far removed from the reality of the academic world. A lot of my friends are concerned that they have ADHD and many more have Aderall prescriptions. Either the majority of college students actually have ADHD or people are getting prescribed Aderall without actually having it. A lot of the "symptoms" that people describe fit me perfectly well. I get distracted easily and find it hard to focus. If I were to relay my concerns in such a way, I wouldn't believe it would be impossible to get a prescription myself. However, I strongly believe that I don't have ADHD and that it's just a typical college student being a typical college student.

ADHD and what most college students believe is ADHD are completely different. "Constantly getting distracted by Facebook and finding it hard to stay focused on studying" isn't sufficient to constitute as ADHD. If I'm wrong, then just about all my friends and I have ADHD.

 

[boltedbicorne]

You seem far removed from the reality of the academic world. A lot of my friends are concerned that they have ADHD and many more have Aderall prescriptions. Either the majority of college students actually have ADHD or people are getting prescribed Aderall without actually having it. A lot of the "symptoms" that people describe fit me perfectly well. I get distracted easily and find it hard to focus. If I were to relay my concerns in such a way, I wouldn't believe it would be impossible to get a prescription myself. However, I strongly believe that I don't have ADHD and that it's just a typical college student being a typical college student.

ADHD and what most college students believe is ADHD are completely different. "Constantly getting distracted by Facebook and finding it hard to stay focused on studying" isn't sufficient to constitute as ADHD. If I'm wrong, then just about all my friends and I have ADHD.

I'm hardly removed from the reality of the academic world as I just graduated, but you're definitely sensationalizing. Referring to most college students as a huge conglomerate is a ridiculous generalization. Your circle =/= everyone, inductive reasoning doesn't work for this. Adderall abusers are obnoxious, but for every abuser there is also someone in college who actually has ADHD, and it wasn't caught in childhood (this is most common with ADHD-PI as we often slip through the cracks), and also people who aren't doing anything you state. You're a doing a large portion of people who don't fit your overgeneralization (most just don't and fall into the don't do anything you state) a great disservice, especially those who are college age and have undiagnosed ADHD. Just because people like myself are college age doesn't mean ADHD at college age and actual legitimate diagnosis isn't real. I can definitely testify it is and is life-changing in every day after struggling my entire life in every way, but not being diagnosed in childhood. Also if you have ADHD, it's a lot harder to cover up your struggles when the way courses are material are structured hit all of your weaknesses, a lot of coping mechanisms crash and burn and parents can't cover up, plus you can't rely on people being sympathetic for you to get by. It's when **** hits the fan which is another reason why people with actual ADHD get diagnosed in college. You can't downplay that and with a whack generalization like that I sincerely hope you never go into general practice or psychiatry because your perspective is horrifyingly wrong.

 

[medicalmnt]

I'm just going to jump in this thread and say that the # of people i've met who actually use adderall and how often it is thrown into conversations is really surprising.
People definitely do use it ranging from the guy you never see in class and has a 2.1 GPA to the 4.0 kid who is pres in a bunch of clubs.

No one is going to judge you, all the responsibility falls on you. If you weigh your odds and feel adderall is the only way then do it, if not don't. No one in a forum is going to give you groundbreaking advice, because you already made up your decision and you're just looking for confirmation.

I'd suggest you don't do it, even though everybody does it and the "norm", just have a positive attitude and get better with your time management. We've made it this far into the game without it.

 

[Cavs5284]

Ah, another one. Although I have no idea what your comment is supposed to achieve...

Did I ever mentioned hard work? Did it ever come into play in this discussion? No, because it's completely beyond the scope of the argument. All I said is that achieving your goal with no drugs >>>> with drugs.

In terms of consequences, goal achieved is goal achieved. Maybe the non-drug user could have achieved even more if he did not choose to stick to an arbitrary moral code refraining from all drugs whatsoever, regardless of the benefit/risk profile.

 

[Aerus]

Adderall abusers are obnoxious, but for every abuser there is also someone in college who actually has ADHD, and it wasn't caught in childhood (this is most common with ADHD-PI as we often slip through the cracks), and also people who aren't doing anything you state. You're a doing a large portion of people who don't fit your overgeneralization (most just don't and fall into the don't do anything you state) a great disservice, especially those who are college age and have undiagnosed ADHD.

You have it backwards. You are doing them a disservice. I'm calling out the many people who believe that simply "an inability to get off of Facebook and procrastinate" is enough to merit Aderall usage. What YOU are saying is "Oh no, this issue shouldn't be addressed. We shouldn't talk about it. Everyone who tries to bring it up is bad"

Just because people like myself are college age doesn't mean ADHD at college age and actual legitimate diagnosis isn't real. I can definitely testify it is and is life-changing in every day after struggling my entire life in every way, but not being diagnosed in childhood. Also if you have ADHD, it's a lot harder to cover up your struggles when the way courses are material are structured hit all of your weaknesses, a lot of coping mechanisms crash and burn and parents can't cover up, plus you can't rely on people being sympathetic for you to get by. It's when **** hits the fan which is another reason why people with actual ADHD get diagnosed in college. You can't downplay that.

Here you are being sensitive and misreading and using strawman arguments. I never downplayed anything. I never tried to say that people with actual ADHD aren't struggling through life. I'm merely addressing the fact that there exists a huge college population who don't NEED Aderall because they don't actually have ADHD.

 

[DermViser]

Here you are being sensitive and misreading and using strawman arguments. I never downplayed anything. I never tried to say that people with actual ADHD aren't struggling through life. I'm merely addressing the fact that there exists a huge college population who don't NEED Aderall because they don't actually have ADHD.

Who cares?

 

[Aerus]

Who cares?

I mean, it's just integrity right? Abusing prescription drugs?

I don't have a strong opinion on this anyways. I have so many friends who do this that I'm used to it. I just wanted to clarify someone's statement, as I think it was misunderstood.

 

[DermViser]

I mean, it's just integrity right? Abusing prescription drugs?

I don't have a strong opinion on this anyways. I have so many friends who do this that I'm used to it. I just wanted to clarify someone's statement, as I think it was misunderstood.

Yeah, college students using Adderall bc YOU don't think they need it is the epitome of integrity on your part. If they're procrastinators who think they'll do well bc they swallow Adderall, then they're idiots.

 

[boltedbicorne]

You have it backwards. You are doing them a disservice. I'm calling out the many people who believe that simply "an inability to get off of Facebook and procrastinate" is enough to merit Aderall usage. What YOU are saying is "Oh no, this issue shouldn't be addressed. We shouldn't talk about it. Everyone who tries to bring it up is bad"



Here you are being sensitive and misreading and using strawman arguments. I never downplayed anything. I never tried to say that people with actual ADHD aren't struggling through life. I'm merely addressing the fact that there exists a huge college population who don't NEED Aderall because they don't actually have ADHD.

the subset of the population isn't huge it's obnoxious so it looks that way. I never said this issue shouldn't be addressed, so there's your strawman dude. abusers are awful, but your overgeneralizations are warping things further for those who actually have ADHD in college.

 

[Aerus]

Yeah, college students using Adderall bc YOU don't think they need it is the epitome of integrity on your part.

But this is exactly what I am addressing:

procrastinators who think they'll do well bc they swallow Adderall

 

[Aerus]

your overgeneralizations are warping things further for those who actually have ADHD in college.

What over-generalizations? I said this population exists and it's prevalent. How am I over-generalizing? I never said that EVERYONE who uses it doesn't need it. I already know that many cases go undiagnosed and many others unreported. As I said, the straw-man needs to stop.

 

[nOchemallday]

Yeah, college students using Adderall bc YOU don't think they need it is the epitome of integrity on your part. If they're procrastinators who think they'll do well bc they swallow Adderall, then they're idiots.

He clearly doesn't mean that his opinions prove his integrity. But rather that the abuse of performance-enhancing drugs in general threaten the integrity of either the profession at large - as old habits die hard and premeds who abuse drugs become medical students who abuse drugs - or of the student amalgamate all lumped under "pre-med." The same way one might question the integrity of an athlete affiliated with Lance Armstrong independent of the actions of the athlete him/herself.

Just because you think they're idiots doesn't change the concern that these abusers may become your colleagues, nor the ethical concerns of drug abuse as a user's actions don't simply effect the user.

Here you are being sensitive and misreading and using strawman arguments. I never downplayed anything. I never tried to say that people with actual ADHD aren't struggling through life. I'm merely addressing the fact that there exists a huge college population who don't NEED Aderall because they don't actually have ADHD.

Who cares?

Obviously he and 6 pages worth of other people care; this thread as evidence. If the epitome of your argument is why care about a clearly ethical decision to abuse drugs, thus perpetuating a stigma for those who actually need medication and tarnishing the integrity of both student and professional bodies then I think you missed the crux of the whole opposition.

 

[kthxbai]

In terms of consequences, goal achieved is goal achieved. Maybe the non-drug user could have achieved even more if he did not choose to stick to an arbitrary moral code refraining from all drugs whatsoever, regardless of the benefit/risk profile.

As much as I would agree with you 99% of the time, this version of ends justifying the means does more harm than good.

I doubt a habitual Adderall user would feel as confident and capable off the drug as he would on it. What if there is an important task ahead and he doesn't have access to his pills? The way I see it, freedom is everything - especially freedom of the mind.

Let's say you feel incomplete without your stash of pills nearby at all times. How is that a life?