Addiction Fellowship Experience.

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carlosc1dbz

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I know many times we see on the forum questions asking things like, is an addiction fellowship worth it, is an addiction fellowship gonna help me make more money, what are the advantages of an addiction fellowship? Stuff like that. Something I have never seen or read here on SDN is someone's experience going through a fellowship addiction. Was the fellowship what you expected? Did you learn the things that you expected to learn? What were the challenges you faced while doing your addiction fellowship? Did you ever regret it? How was your year structured?

I am hopeful that someone with an addiction fellowship under their belt could give some insight into their experience. I think it would benefit the SDN psych community.

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HI,
I finished an addictions fellowship in July this year. I can say that I very much enjoyed my fellowship. I think that it was a helpful experience, not only from a pharmacological standpoint, but also therapeutically as well. My view and empathy towards substance users progressively changed as I went through my training. I started to realize that a lot of my other colleagues still held a somewhat negative stigma/attitude towards substance users, and I am proud to say that because of my training, I feel that my ability to preserve my empathy towards them translates into better patient rapport. I am a big believer in motivational interviewing, which is the heart of the approach towards substance users. Not only is it nonconfrontational, but I feel that 'putting the ball in the patient's" hands highlights the patient's responsibility in recovery, and also takes some pressure off of me to make large and immense changes. Working within this type of program also made me feel much more comfortable with 'harm reduction' as well. In terms of medications, while one could argue that for alcoholism there are only a handful of FDA-approved meds, I find that b/c of my training, I am probably the only one of the faculty in my new position who orders all these meds because I am comfortable with it. There is a lot of research out there to find off-label uses of medications for addictions, and I find it very fascinating. When I get the chance to teach residents about some of these off-label meds, they find it enlightening.

I also believe that while having an addictions fellowship doesn't make your salary that much higher (in academia at least), it did make me more marketable, and I feel more job security given that addiction psychiatrists are rather scant. It's also pretty nice to have that niche, and it gives me gratification that my training has been useful when people (staff or residents) come up to me asking for curbside questions about addictions cases.

In terms of challenges, I think one of the harder things is that when working in addictions, there is a high percentage of homelessness. While i don't have a problem working with the homeless population, when one is homeless, it makes treatment compliance that much more difficult. Also, while I have learned that patients lying to you about their drug use is part of their denial (as defense mechanism), at times it has been challenging to know for sure whether someone is using without having an objective test like a UDS (which can also be falsified).

I now work in a full time outpatient faculty position at a county hospital. While I do not work exclusively with substance abuse, I feel like I have much more tools to work with the 60+% of people who are using in the clinics. I am also part of a team trying to expand substance abuse services in the hospital,and if it weren't for the training, I likely wouldn't have had the privilege to be a part of it.

Do I have any regrets about doing an addictions fellowship? Absolutely not. It was only one year; in my program, there was ZERO call; I feel that it has made me a more well-rounded clinician with a niche, and for me has lead to more job flexibility and job security.
 
strong interest in addiction psych...current psych res.
looking at fellowships,,,thoughts on some of the less competitive programs/less academic ones..currently at a uni program. seems like all the addiction fellowships are at uni programs..
my plan for a career is.... medical director of a private rehab...with my own gen. psych practice on the side...and some consult work at the local hospital..feasible?
 
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HI,
I finished an addictions fellowship in July this year. I can say that I very much enjoyed my fellowship. I think that it was a helpful experience, not only from a pharmacological standpoint, but also therapeutically as well. QUOTE]

pharmacological? While I was asleep last night did a bunch of new addiction drugs hit the market that I'm not aware of?
 
oh great..vistaril's back...please go back to sleep
 
my plan for a career is.... medical director of a private rehab...with my own gen. psych practice on the side...and some consult work at the local hospital..feasible?

This depends on a lot of different things, and I would say that while doing a fellowship gives you have a better shot, it's not a guarantee that you'll find the exact job that you want. There are not that many private rehab facilities out there, and if they offer high salary for medical director positions can often scoop up the best candidates. However, public rehabs are desperately in need of physicians. But your role in treatment is fairly limited, as these places are usually run by non-physician providers. Your best bet is to aim for the most reputable fellowship possible.
 
This depends on a lot of different things, and I would say that while doing a fellowship gives you have a better shot, it's not a guarantee that you'll find the exact job that you want. There are not that many private rehab facilities out there, and if they offer high salary for medical director positions can often scoop up the best candidates. However, public rehabs are desperately in need of physicians. But your role in treatment is fairly limited, as these places are usually run by non-physician providers. Your best bet is to aim for the most reputable fellowship possible.

yep yep.....also in public rehab jobs you are going to wear a million different hats and do a million different things, none of which are particularly appealing. It's going to be a cluster. And the pay isn't going to be good. And you aren't going to get the credit when patients have success(because you arent going to know the patients and they wont know you). What you will be is the fall guy/girl when things go south.

and extremely profitable private rehab facilities arent that common as you say. Everyone has fantasies about running a passages or promises or whatever. Heh...good luck with that, and it's not about being the 'best clinician'. First off, most of the money is going to go to the investors or owner(who may or may not be an addictionoligist, probably not). They will hire a person to be 'director of addiction services' or 'medical director' or whatever, and the salary will be decent, but it won't be astronomical in most cases. Also, what they want is someone with connections. Connections to state medical boards, state professional programs, etc....that's what they are paying for, not some special expertise in dosing suboxone(anyone can do that). In many cases these people didn't do the top addiction fellowships, and some aren't psychiatrists at all(the new promises addiction director is an internist for example).
 
yep yep.....also in public rehab jobs you are going to wear a million different hats and do a million different things, none of which are particularly appealing. It's going to be a cluster. And the pay isn't going to be good. And you aren't going to get the credit when patients have success(because you arent going to know the patients and they wont know you). What you will be is the fall guy/girl when things go south.

and extremely profitable private rehab facilities arent that common as you say. Everyone has fantasies about running a passages or promises or whatever. Heh...good luck with that, and it's not about being the 'best clinician'. First off, most of the money is going to go to the investors or owner(who may or may not be an addictionoligist, probably not). They will hire a person to be 'director of addiction services' or 'medical director' or whatever, and the salary will be decent, but it won't be astronomical in most cases. Also, what they want is someone with connections. Connections to state medical boards, state professional programs, etc....that's what they are paying for, not some special expertise in dosing suboxone(anyone can do that). In many cases these people didn't do the top addiction fellowships, and some aren't psychiatrists at all(the new promises addiction director is an internist for example).
Could you explain what you mean by "connections" to state medical boards? What is it valuable to have these? How do you get them?
 
Could you explain what you mean by "connections" to state medical boards? What is it valuable to have these? How do you get them?

well not just state medical/monitoring boards, but also nursing, pharmacy, law and other professional organizations. These are important because a lot of your customers in for profit rehab centers are going to be there because they are the ones approved by state boards or monitoring programs as allowing people to go there and recieve treatment and then enter their program and still maintain a license(with whatever they do) in their state.
If you're running a for profit treatment center and don't have these connections(or at least a good relationship with these groups), forget it.....the patients who need to enroll in certain programs then won't be able to spend their money at yours.

You get them by establishing a reputation in your field...but in reality a lot of people get them by being on state boards or as chairs or board members of monitoring programs.
 
how did you learn this stuff, what your saying makes a lotta sense...yeah,.. alot of these docs arent even psychiatrists but fm's with a subox. lisc. or a medicine guy who did an asam fellowship or whatever...
i like addiction, but i dont wanna be a fall guy..so these cmd's of these places have other percs on their resume, well how does one go about gettin those...this is very interesting, and we dont learn about this in academia...at least not at my insti, which does not have a addxn fellowship
 
how did you learn this stuff, what your saying makes a lotta sense...yeah,.. alot of these docs arent even psychiatrists but fm's with a subox. lisc. or a medicine guy who did an asam fellowship or whatever...
i like addiction, but i dont wanna be a fall guy..so these cmd's of these places have other percs on their resume, well how does one go about gettin those...this is very interesting, and we dont learn about this in academia...at least not at my insti, which does not have a addxn fellowship

I learn all this stuff by getting out there and working different jobs in different settings as well as researching opportunities. The reality of addiction medicine is that physician level providers can only do so much.
 
I learn all this stuff by getting out there and working different jobs in different settings as well as researching opportunities. The reality of addiction medicine is that physician level providers can only do so much.

OK dude..you're a fourth year resident..get a grip. You really don't know shi#. This guy is a perpetual douchebag on this forum..

Im currently the medical director of an addiction clinic and i was not on any state boards blah blah blah. Its a private facility with a great rep...pm me if you want more info
 
You guys are still welcome to reply to the original post.
 
At my bar swearing-in ceremony, the very first speaker to address us spoke about substance abuse and gave us the various phone numbers for substance abuse. Substance abuse by lawyers is a goldmine. Lawyers don't go to rehab willingly; they go when they're ordered, and there is no choice in the matter about which clinic to go to.

Can't comment on his psychiatry opinions, but coming from the professional/business world, a lot of Visitril's comments regarding psychiatry as a business seem spot on to me.

So is it a gold-mine for psychiatrists who work at these clinics that treat professionals? Can an addiction psychiatrist run his or her own clinic and charge up the wazoo?
 
So is it a gold-mine for psychiatrists who work at these clinics that treat professionals? Can an addiction psychiatrist run his or her own clinic and charge up the wazoo?

You can charge all the wazoos you want. Whether anyone will pay those charges is the question... There are no "gold mines" in this business.

Do addiction because you want to help people fight this disease, and enjoy the gratitude of those who win the battle.

Why do the fellowship? It's a year of focused clinical training in this area which you are unlikely to find elsewhere. It validates you for a "niche", and identifies you as a specific resource for your colleagues and community.

If you want to learn more, I'd highly recommend attending an AAAP meeting. Discounts for students and residents.
 
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So is it a gold-mine for psychiatrists who work at these clinics that treat professionals? Can an addiction psychiatrist run his or her own clinic and charge up the wazoo?

you need more than a clinic....the money is in approved residential programs. It's a very large undertaking. Lots of employees, counselors, etc

Anyone can open a residential program and charge whatever they want. You can open your program tommorrow and charge more than passages if you want. Whether you will get any customers(or get on any approved professional program list) is another story
 
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