The general consensus seems to be putting off PE until as late as possible so the smart move seems to be moving my test date from July to December since that’s my school’s deadline and hope they cancel before then? The fourth years at my school have just canceled all together but I’m not sure I want to do that just yet.
-
CycleTrack and SDN are teaming up to make medical school admissions more transparent and accessible! Read the announcement to learn how we’re supporting the future of CycleTrack’s free application-tracking tools .
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
D
deleted898021
I would cancel and just tell your school I wasn’t able to get a date till December at the earliest, our class hasn’t even signed up yet so I can’t imagine there would be many dates available till December anyway, and hope that by then the nbome ends up canceling it. Also just say that the priority was given to 4th years by the nbome lol
As expected from a Gimpel doppelganger
Yeah, I was talking about class of 2022. If I was 2021 I would obviously cancel. But my school requires PE to graduate (c/o 2022) and I currently have a date in July. School's deadline for PE is currently end of September-- obviously they will have to readjust this as I'm sure some people still don't have a date, but I'm not willing to take the risk of canceling my July date for a December date instead and then getting in trouble with my school. So I'm powerless in the situation.
A
AnatomyGrey12
No, you are making yourself powerless.
How? My school knows I currently have a date scheduled that's within their window. I don't think they would look kindly on me cancelling it.
D
deleted898021
They don’t know hahah. Admin isn’t keeping track of like 200 students to know who is signed up when to take an exam that has been pushed back over and over again..you’d be shocked how clueless DO school admin can be sometimes.. if you cancel it’s not like they will get an instant notification saying that xyz person cancelled their PE in July lol, it would be dumb on your part not to cancel and wait it out till the very end in case this test isn’t canceled..
A
AnatomyGrey12
What are they going to do? The test literally isn't being conducted right now and class of 2021 still has about 6000 people to take it.... Cancelling your test doesn't make you powerless. It makes them powerless.
they say they do, but who knowsValid. I'll think about it.
D
deleted898021
Valid. I'll think about it.
Valid. I'll think about it.
It’s more likely a scare tactic to keep people from canceling lol
Valid. I'll think about it.
D
deleted898021
Also I don’t get how third years are even able to sign up right now because according to the NBOME’s very own policy, IF this test even does resume back up, class of 2021 and earlier will have priority over class of 2022 and beyond, so in the case they actually follow through with thier idiotic plan of resuming this exam, the current 4th years(who will be residents then) will get priority then and they will no doubt end up canceling all the class of 2022 currently signed up to accommodate another 6000+ plus people who have yet to take this test. Most of the 4th years I suppose cancelled their dates already or never signed up.. how would that work? Is the Fresno site able to accommodate what another 6000 people?
throwaway199
Full Member
Looks like more and more people are calling in and cancelling..it should help with my argument tomorrow as to where the DO students stand/how they feel
qwertythrowaway
Full Member
i urge you to cancel. seriously. look out for yourself and your future.
did anyone get the email he just sent addressed to students? he already knows how we feel. the benefit/risk ratio is not worth it homie.
I guess the NBOME made it official today, because the ”leaked” email made its way into my school inbox today.
Oh Gimpel. This really is sad for you
For those who are still considering whether or not they should cancel.... I have always been that person to be proactive in things and get them out of the way as early as I could... so I was one of those last ones to take the exam before it cancelled last year before it was suspended. And guess what... I failed the exam. I have never failed a single OSCE at school and never thought I would be the one to fail.... but they simply said I wasn’t sympathetic enough.
.....the regret of my life to take this exam.
This time around, I refuse to take this exam again. I’m not going to repeat my mistake last time. I would have gotten many more interviews this year if it wasn’t because of this..... and all the mental tortures I have been through the interviews I have had because of this one useless thing.
#cancel COMLEX PE and ask for your refund now.
.....the regret of my life to take this exam.
This time around, I refuse to take this exam again. I’m not going to repeat my mistake last time. I would have gotten many more interviews this year if it wasn’t because of this..... and all the mental tortures I have been through the interviews I have had because of this one useless thing.
#cancel COMLEX PE and ask for your refund now.
D
deleted1062590
From that email: "The Level 2-PE measures the ability to demonstrate core and fundamental competencies and values for DOs, including communication skills and connection, empathy, hands-on physical diagnosis/OMM and OMT"
Let's take a moment and appreciate how ridiculous that above statement is. So we are to pay $1,300+hotel+airfare+food so that we can be evaluated on:
1) communication skills
2) empathy
3) OMM
All of the above will be evaluated in a standardized (aka fake) patient encounter in <14 minutes. Yet, 4th years will have have over 200 hours of OMM training in 1st/ & 2nd year, and over 3500 hours of 3rd/4th year clinical training to work on communication skills and empathy. If we were deficient in any of the above, there's no way we would have made it to or this far in medical school. This is not only an asinine, utter waste of money and resources, but it's incredibly patronizing to us students and the professors, preceptors, and attendings that taught and evaluated us along the way. Oh, and on top of all of that, we're in a global pandemic.
Let's take a moment and appreciate how ridiculous that above statement is. So we are to pay $1,300+hotel+airfare+food so that we can be evaluated on:
1) communication skills
2) empathy
3) OMM
All of the above will be evaluated in a standardized (aka fake) patient encounter in <14 minutes. Yet, 4th years will have have over 200 hours of OMM training in 1st/ & 2nd year, and over 3500 hours of 3rd/4th year clinical training to work on communication skills and empathy. If we were deficient in any of the above, there's no way we would have made it to or this far in medical school. This is not only an asinine, utter waste of money and resources, but it's incredibly patronizing to us students and the professors, preceptors, and attendings that taught and evaluated us along the way. Oh, and on top of all of that, we're in a global pandemic.
I've unfortunately met some pretty pathetic people in medicine but wow. Hall of famer level weak person. So weak.
Great example of what a leader isn't and a great example of power versus authority. What an illegitimate buffoon.
"we hear your opinion but.... we know better and we need the money"
Literally exactly
throwaway199
Full Member
This guys. It's not worth the risk and ruining your career over it.
I like how they need to specifically write "valid and reliable Level 2: PE". I want to see just how bad of a financial sink hole they have gotten themselves into because at this point it reeks of desperate thoughts and prayers that local governments don't put the states into another high-alert. And if it's really bad enough, I think we're seeing here that Gimpel is not above creating a backlog of students over the next few graduating classes in order to have us all take this thing.
If any of y'all are on twitter head on to #CancelComlexPE it is blowing up! Tag anyone and everyone and post how you feel about the PE to get the word out. I want to see this on national news!
if you're worried about anonymity of course just make a throw away!
if you're worried about anonymity of course just make a throw away!
This... I know of a resident in EM right now w/ 240s/240s Step 1/2 going unmatched a few years ago and had to scramble to a TY position, prove himself, and then eventually go into EM as a PGY-1 with one year of training wasted. There is no gain for this exam, except the slim chance of ruining your IIs and possible career.
A
AnatomyGrey12
I love how that implies it is unique to DO's too lol.
qwertythrowaway
Full Member
I failed the PE. Interviewed with a formerly osteopathic program this cycle who asked 'what happened, you seem so personable?'. Goes to show you, even OUR PDs have no clue what the exam tests. They honestly believe it is a personality test.
I have essentially spent less than 5 minutes on Twitter ever until a moment ago and I have to say people are making some noise. Good job and hell I'll contribute even though I hate SM.
I'd argue we've pretty much confirmed this isn't about ego anymore. It's exclusively monetary gain. Only reason to continue with this charade is because he doesn't care about his reputation. Easy enough to buy soundproof walls and stay off social media for fossils of his caliber.
As if being a DO wasn't hard enough. Now PD's might be swayed even more than they already do to rank MD candidates higher since they don't have to take CS while we get shafted with still taking PE. What a joke of an organization.
Theres literally no point to taking it. Your school isnt gonna prevent you from graduation because you canceled an exam that is A)in limbo and B)has thousands of students ahead of you needing to take it.
Valid. I'll think about it.
Obviously do what you feel is best, but if you dont cancel you cant really complain about it
A
AnatomyGrey12
Yeah my buddy sent me some highlights today lol
Are all the graders of the PE board certified in NMM/OMM? From what I could find, it's "NBOME trained and approved osteopathic physician examiners." That sounds suspect. Element 7.5 of the COCA accreditation requires each school to have an NMM/OMM boarded Chair of the department. I know our school has struggled to find people with these credentials, so in that regard, it is easily arguable that ALL DO students are better evaluated for OMT at our schools with NMM/OMM Boarded faculty than the PE could ever provide. Further evidence that the PE has no justification, especially during a pandemic where we want to limit travel.
I just went down the cancel PE twitter rabbit hole lol. Also added to it.
Yaldabaoth
Full Member
I also contributed to the hashtag. Is there anything more that can be done though?
Words are helpful, but they aren’t going to hurt them nearly as much as us taking our money back one refund at a time. I imagine Gimpbell watching the money flying out of their account with a tear in his eye and it brings me joy.
yeah I tried to emphasize to NBOME and AOA they are being shortsighted, even if all they care about is $$$
Yaldabaoth
Full Member
Dr. David Broder has reported to have spoken to Dr. Gimpel directly about this!
D
deleted898021
Progress!! Keep the heat up...
This means absolutely nothing lol.
eh he's been against cancelling it and arguing with students on twitter
Last edited:
Yaldabaoth
Full Member
Ach, I was not aware he was on their side. I should have checked beforehand.
D
deleted898021
Nah it does mean something, dr broder is on the aoa house of delegates and I am sure if he feels the heat then others are as well, he was quoted just yesterday supporting level 2PE and now even he changed his mind, the more minds around gimple we can change the more likely it is we can cancel this exam ..
D
deleted1062590
This dude didn't even take COMLEX PE, and he's defending it. Seems like he should take it with the Class of 2021 to make sure he's an empathetic DOctor /s
With so many people focused on the battle of wall street vs reddit... theyre missing the true war of AOA vs SDN
He didn't change his mind this guy has been an absolute dick to students on twitter who have gone up against the NBOME. Literally, board members of the AOA are in leadership positions at the NBOME. THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT ON OUR SIDE. The AOA is a scumbag organization just like the NBOME.
D
deleted898021
I get you but the fact that he even claimed to talk to gimple about this is atleast a step in the right direction? We just need to keep at it on social media..
