Addressing PE

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sunshinefl said:
my school at the time that passed made it sound like it was something they would do "later" when you actually applied for level 3. So I don't know if that's true, what's supposed to happen first, or if they're confused, or if they're right and NBOME made it a dumb process where we have to count on our schools again later after we graduated.

I officially graduated (but degree isn't awarded by the parent university until the end of the month, but I have confirmation that I completed all the requirements just waiting for that routine process) and nothing is different on my NBOME. No special box or note. And no level 3 eligibility. But again I don't know the process of what comes first. However, I cannot do anything to register for Level 3, including purchasing it.
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I'm worried these half-assed NBOME ideas won't let me take the exam until like halfway through the year which would definitely be unfortunate. Fingers crossed that they don't do what they usually do. My dean thinks they don't have to do anything on their end.

I appreciate the update. Enjoy your free time!
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Neopolymath said:
I'm worried these half-assed NBOME ideas won't let me take the exam until like halfway through the year which would definitely be unfortunate. Fingers crossed that they don't do what they usually do. My dean thinks they don't have to do anything on their end.

I appreciate the update. Enjoy your free time!
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oh yeah I have the same concerns. Sigh. nothing can be smooth, huh? lol
 
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Graduated and degree awarded the other day. Got an email from our school about various things and in there was a line saying COMLEX Level 3 approvals would be happening at the end of the month.

So..... I suspect the schools do actually have to do something.
 
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Neopolymath said:
Bumping this thread.

Has anyone graduated yet? When you graduate, your dean is supposed to endorse you to the NBOME saying you are fit to progress without PE and this unlocks your ability to progress to another step. If yes to above, has your portal on the NBOME site changed to allow you to type in your residency PD so they may endorse you as well so you can finally register?

I'm trying to register and get this test done very early in my TY but I need to know if I can even register for a date during a chill elective I have sooner than later.

Let me know if anyone makes progress here as graduations start rolling in for different schools.
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I believe Level 3 has nothing to do anymore with your school. Your PD will certify you (NBOME sends them emails and stuff) and that will allow registration dates to open up on NBOME. That is, your school cannot certify you as elegible for L3, but your PD does.
 
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TXKnight said:
I believe Level 3 has nothing to do anymore with your school. Your PD will certify you (NBOME sends them emails and stuff) and that will allow registration dates to open up on NBOME. That is, your school cannot certify you as elegible for L3, but your PD does.
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I think your school still has to certify your clinical skills (which replaces PE) before you graduate, and that's part of the pathway (along with your PD certifying you as well) to be able to sign up for Level 3.
 
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TXKnight said:
I believe Level 3 has nothing to do anymore with your school. Your PD will certify you (NBOME sends them emails and stuff) and that will allow registration dates to open up on NBOME. That is, your school cannot certify you as elegible for L3, but your PD does.
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My school had to send word to NBOME that I graduated and endorsed my skills. Then on the NBOME website a new menu opened allowing me to request my PD certify I can take it.


It worked like I described in the post you quoted.
 
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In light of the indefinite suspension of the COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE, the NBOME Board of Directors has approved an enhanced attestation pathway to COMLEX-USA Level 3 for the graduating DO Class of 2022.

To accomplish this, the NBOME will release the Evidence of Clinical Skills Activities 2022 Inventory. Each COM will be asked to complete the Inventory with information about the activities they use to educate and assess students on their osteopathic clinical skills. We believe this Inventory will reassure our stakeholders (state medical and osteopathic medical boards, residency program directors, colleges of osteopathic medicine, students, and patients) that there is evidence used to inform this enhanced attestation. In addition, we anticipate the COMs’ information to be integral for future collaboration and continuous quality improvement innovations.



Bye PE. It's been totally not fun.
 
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fldoctorgirl said:
In light of the indefinite suspension of the COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE, the NBOME Board of Directors has approved an enhanced attestation pathway to COMLEX-USA Level 3 for the graduating DO Class of 2022.

To accomplish this, the NBOME will release the Evidence of Clinical Skills Activities 2022 Inventory. Each COM will be asked to complete the Inventory with information about the activities they use to educate and assess students on their osteopathic clinical skills. We believe this Inventory will reassure our stakeholders (state medical and osteopathic medical boards, residency program directors, colleges of osteopathic medicine, students, and patients) that there is evidence used to inform this enhanced attestation. In addition, we anticipate the COMs’ information to be integral for future collaboration and continuous quality improvement innovations.



Bye PE. It's been totally not fun.
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Hoping their "inventory" doesn't become a bigger pain in the ass than PE. Really hoping OSCEs will fill the void, even though those were dumb AF too.
 
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Steve_Zissou said:
Hoping their "inventory" doesn't become a bigger pain in the ass than PE. Really hoping OSCEs will fill the void, even though those were dumb AF too.
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I'm like 99% sure they will at most schools. My school still made us do our pre-PE thing and they specifically included a bunch of OMM stuff for this purpose I think.
 
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fldoctorgirl said:
I'm like 99% sure they will at most schools. My school still made us do our pre-PE thing and they specifically included a bunch of OMM stuff for this purpose I think.
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Mine did too, except it was all virtual, so we had to verbalize our entire OMM exam.... so ****ing dumb...
 
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how does this affect classes beyond the class of 2022?
 
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Just out of curiosity, what is NBOME going to do with the Conshohocken and Chicago testing centers?
 
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This thread is perhaps the best thing to every come out of the DO forum... an epic saga...
 
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Tragal Pointer said:
This thread is perhaps the best thing to every come out of the DO forum... an epic saga...
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Agreed, this thread is one for the ages. In 20 years it will still be looked back on and talked about. Hopefully the NBOME will go extinct by then.
 
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I personally like that the Gimp said things in his talks and announcements that showed he read this thread.
 
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Tragal Pointer said:
This thread is perhaps the best thing to every come out of the DO forum... an epic saga...
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Agreed

I wish the legendary @AnatomyGrey12 didn't leave us so soon though. If you're reading this, we wish you all the best in residency buddy.
 
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DrStephenStrange said:
It was extended.
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They are *really* committing to verbiage that indicates that they still want a PE test. Unfortunate.

Current DO students should hit up their SOMA chapter or class presidents to get resolutions in place to end PE if it isn't already in process. Professional societies operate by arcane rules and resolutions. You need to play by those rules to have a seat at the table. The more momentum that can be built, the better positioned we'll be to resist PE being restarted.

Honestly, I'd start to try for a DEI approach as well. The reality is that it costs a lot of money to take these exams and our peers who don't come from money are the worst off if these exams are reinstated. I think it'd be worth it to see if the med student BLM/LMSA type groups would be willing to sign to this as well.
 
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I'm an intern now. Trying to take my level 3 ASAP before they come up with some sht
 
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This is your regular reminder that if you've taken USMLE Step 1 and 2, you aren't required to take COMLEX 3 in all but 6 states for licensure. Pretty sure it would negate the PE issue too for class of 2022 and earlier. :)
 
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Bump. Any idea when 2024 will find out if they have to take this exam (i.e. is it actually dead or just sleeping)
 
DO_or_Die said:
Bump. Any idea when 2024 will find out if they have to take this exam (i.e. is it actually dead or just sleeping)
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Not dead yet, hopefully they don’t figure something out before we graduate
 
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Hello my esteemed colleagues,

Many DO students received an ominous email from the NBOME this morning that discusses their attempt to bring back COMLEX 2 PE. Attached is the link which leads to the homepage detailing the Special Commission's recommendations for the Class of 2024's COMLEX testing pathways.

Recommendations from the Special Commission on Osteopathic Medical Licensure Assessment — NBOME

Attached in images is the recommendation of concern.

https://www.nbome.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2022 Special Commission Recommendations.pdf

Additionally, the NBOME is only collecting feedback at this link until May 4!!
https://www.nbome.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2022 Special Commission - review and comment form.pdf

You have to manually fill out this PDF form and email it to [email protected]

The NBOME is deliberately making it difficult to provide feedback and leaving only a two week window to limit responses from the public. They are hoping to escape with a low response rate so that they can unilaterally enact this change.

The Classes of 2022 and 2023 have been just fine without COMLEX PE so there is no reason for C/O 2024 to be guinea pigs for yet another change in standardized testing. Additionally, PD's will have no way to interpret any possible competencies or scores from this exam, and therefore another exam will not be beneficial in our ultimate goal of attaining a residency spot.

I urge everyone to take the time to thoughtfully fill this “survey” out. Please send this to anyone and everyone. Garner support on MedTwitter, Reddit or any other forums you all may frequent.

This weak attempt to standardize our clinical education will become yet another financial barrier to us. This will be time and money spent flying back to our home institutions as most DO programs disperse us throughout the country for our clinical clerkships. This will be a barrier to our success as we could be studying for Step 2/COMLEX 2 (arguably the importance of this numerical score will now replace the weight of STEP 1) or doing another away rotation to help distinguish ourselves. Furthermore, with inflation spiking this will place an undue burden on many learners who are already riddled with six figures of debt.

This “recommendation” is written in such a way that two years of SPEs and simulations and two years spent interviewing and interacting with REAL patients is not enough to render us competent physicians. If that is truly the case then there is a larger problem with the whole system. Pulling students off clinical rotations and having them spend money on flights, hotels, and fee registrations for a reborn COMLEX 2 PE at their home campus is NOT the solution.

Please save us from the NBOME and help your fellow Bone Wizards keep this exam in the past with STEP 2 CS where it belongs.

Thank you for your time.
 

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HelpTheDOStudent said:
Hello my esteemed colleagues,

Many DO students received an ominous email from the NBOME this morning that discusses their attempt to bring back COMLEX 2 PE. Attached is the link which leads to the homepage detailing the Special Commission's recommendations for the Class of 2024's COMLEX testing pathways.

Recommendations from the Special Commission on Osteopathic Medical Licensure Assessment — NBOME

Attached in images is the recommendation of concern.

https://www.nbome.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2022 Special Commission Recommendations.pdf

Additionally, the NBOME is only collecting feedback at this link until May 4!!
https://www.nbome.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2022 Special Commission - review and comment form.pdf

You have to manually fill out this PDF form and email it to [email protected]

The NBOME is deliberately making it difficult to provide feedback and leaving only a two week window to limit responses from the public. They are hoping to escape with a low response rate so that they can unilaterally enact this change.

The Classes of 2022 and 2023 have been just fine without COMLEX PE so there is no reason for C/O 2024 to be guinea pigs for yet another change in standardized testing. Additionally, PD's will have no way to interpret any possible competencies or scores from this exam, and therefore another exam will not be beneficial in our ultimate goal of attaining a residency spot.

I urge everyone to take the time to thoughtfully fill this “survey” out. Please send this to anyone and everyone. Garner support on MedTwitter, Reddit or any other forums you all may frequent.

This weak attempt to standardize our clinical education will become yet another financial barrier to us. This will be time and money spent flying back to our home institutions as most DO programs disperse us throughout the country for our clinical clerkships. This will be a barrier to our success as we could be studying for Step 2/COMLEX 2 (arguably the importance of this numerical score will now replace the weight of STEP 1) or doing another away rotation to help distinguish ourselves. Furthermore, with inflation spiking this will place an undue burden on many learners who are already riddled with six figures of debt.

This “recommendation” is written in such a way that two years of SPEs and simulations and two years spent interviewing and interacting with REAL patients is not enough to render us competent physicians. If that is truly the case then there is a larger problem with the whole system. Pulling students off clinical rotations and having them spend money on flights, hotels, and fee registrations for a reborn COMLEX 2 PE at their home campus is NOT the solution.

Please save us from the NBOME.

Thank you for your time.
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Just one more thing to potentially fail that will render us less competitive than our allopathic colleagues. OMM is not essential to becoming a physician as MD's do not do OMM at all. So annoying.
 
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HelpTheDOStudent said:
Hello my esteemed colleagues,

Many DO students received an ominous email from the NBOME this morning that discusses their attempt to bring back COMLEX 2 PE. Attached is the link which leads to the homepage detailing the Special Commission's recommendations for the Class of 2024's COMLEX testing pathways.

Recommendations from the Special Commission on Osteopathic Medical Licensure Assessment — NBOME

Attached in images is the recommendation of concern.

https://www.nbome.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2022 Special Commission Recommendations.pdf

Additionally, the NBOME is only collecting feedback at this link until May 4!!
https://www.nbome.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2022 Special Commission - review and comment form.pdf

You have to manually fill out this PDF form and email it to [email protected]

The NBOME is deliberately making it difficult to provide feedback and leaving only a two week window to limit responses from the public. They are hoping to escape with a low response rate so that they can unilaterally enact this change.

The Classes of 2022 and 2023 have been just fine without COMLEX PE so there is no reason for C/O 2024 to be guinea pigs for yet another change in standardized testing. Additionally, PD's will have no way to interpret any possible competencies or scores from this exam, and therefore another exam will not be beneficial in our ultimate goal of attaining a residency spot.

I urge everyone to take the time to thoughtfully fill this “survey” out. Please send this to anyone and everyone. Garner support on MedTwitter, Reddit or any other forums you all may frequent.

This weak attempt to standardize our clinical education will become yet another financial barrier to us. This will be time and money spent flying back to our home institutions as most DO programs disperse us throughout the country for our clinical clerkships. This will be a barrier to our success as we could be studying for Step 2/COMLEX 2 (arguably the importance of this numerical score will now replace the weight of STEP 1) or doing another away rotation to help distinguish ourselves. Furthermore, with inflation spiking this will place an undue burden on many learners who are already riddled with six figures of debt.

This “recommendation” is written in such a way that two years of SPEs and simulations and two years spent interviewing and interacting with REAL patients is not enough to render us competent physicians. If that is truly the case then there is a larger problem with the whole system. Pulling students off clinical rotations and having them spend money on flights, hotels, and fee registrations for a reborn COMLEX 2 PE at their home campus is NOT the solution.

Please save us from the NBOME.

Thank you for your time.
Click to expand...
Another thing to keep in my that I found while filling this out (then saving it to my computer and emailing it to the listed source) is that the text boxes are scrollable when filings it out, but appear not to be when viewing the PDFs. Keep this in mind when responding. I extended my response into multiple immediately viewable text boxes just in case.
 
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