Administration (MBA) fellowship

[Rodney10]

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Has any one here ever done a administration fellowship? What benefits would it be to doing a EM MBA fellowship vs MBA school while working?

 

[Dr.Evil1]

I think that the main advantage of a fellowship would be that you are working in an established framework with a mentor or group of potential mentors. You would also probably get more compassion out of whoever was doing the schedule in order to get the right times and amounts of clinical hours. I would only consider a fellowship, though, if you did actually get a degree out of it. You would probably get paid less while actually working during your fellowship but, depending on who you work with, you would probably make enough extra money in the future to make up for it. I'm sure that you could probably fashion your own "fellowship" while working near full time in a private group but you wouldn't have the structure or personal connections that the fellowship brings.

Disclaimer - I am a resident who, for a period of time, considered doing an administrative fellowship. I am not a fellow and I hope that they speak up on this topic.

 

[VALSALVA]

I have absolutely nothing to contribute to this conversation, but I thought I'd have Rodney10 a big fat WELCOME as the above was his first post!

 

[Egon]

The question you have to ask is if you're doing the MBA for admin or you're doing it for a second career, investing, etc. If you're doing an MBA for admin, one in conjunction with a fellowship will take you far, and it doesn't really matter where you get it from. But, it will take at least 2 years to get the degree while most admin fellowships are one year. If you want to do an MBA for a side career in consulting, investing, etc., going to a big name school is ideal and may be better done via an executive MBA at a top school. Most of these programs meet every other weekend with about 15-20 hrs of homework during the week, so can be doable with an attending schedule. It's a lot of work but can be well worth it in the long run. Keep in mind tuition can run as high as $140K for the degree...most expensive credits I think known!

 

[EdEmEr]

The question you have to ask is if you're doing the MBA for admin or you're doing it for a second career, investing, etc. If you're doing an MBA for admin, one in conjunction with a fellowship will take you far, and it doesn't really matter where you get it from. But, it will take at least 2 years to get the degree while most admin fellowships are one year. If you want to do an MBA for a side career in consulting, investing, etc., going to a big name school is ideal and may be better done via an executive MBA at a top school. Most of these programs meet every other weekend with about 15-20 hrs of homework during the week, so can be doable with an attending schedule. It's a lot of work but can be well worth it in the long run. Keep in mind tuition can run as high as $140K for the degree...most expensive credits I think known!

Does anyone have a short list of the Admin Fellowships that Include an MBA as part of the program? Perhaps even with a tuition waiver?

Two asides-

1: I had a PD at a place with and Admin fellowship tell me that he does not believe the MBA is necessary to advance in ED/Hospital administration. It is not a job that people are kicking down doors to get in the community.

2: My current thinking is the best (and cheapest/fastest) way to go would be to do a residency that has an Admin track to build up the CV, get out and work as an attending (with high pay and a flexble schedule) and do an executive MBA while in practice.

I had both a PD and an MD/MBA tell me that this would work because people want you to have clinical experience of a couple years before you start advancing up the administative ladder. With this plan, you start building your seniority 1 to 3 years ealier. Any thoughts?

 

[zinjanthropus]

TeamHealth has an admin fellowship with an MBA. It is offered at USF and Hopkins. Tuition waiver is included and you pick up attending shifts. Not bad at all. The classes are once a month on the weekends and self-study outside of that.

 

[onlyletters]

I wanted to bump this thread now that 7 years have passed. Anybody have any insight in the value of doing an administrative fellowship versus getting an MBA from a top school vs. doing USF's administrative fellowship that gets you an MBA as well?

 

[pubh43]

I wanted to bump this thread now that 7 years have passed. Anybody have any insight in the value of doing an administrative fellowship versus getting an MBA from a top school vs. doing USF's administrative fellowship that gets you an MBA as well?

Administrative fellowships pay. MBAs charge. Typically, you need a graduate degree to get the former, but an MBA is not specifically required. You could consider an MHA or MPH too

 

[deuist]

The whole debate on whether to do an administration fellowship versus pay for MBA versus slowly acquire skills and move up to administration on your own time depends on what you want to do. I'm of the school of thought that there is no reason anyone should ever pay for an MBA if all you want is to learn about business. The MOOCs do a pretty good job of taking care of that for you. Hell, the Wharton School of Business from the University of Pennsylvania already puts its first-year MBA classes online for free. It will save you $50,000 in tuition.

 

[onlyletters]

I guess my question is "Is the MBA required or super-helpful for moving up the administrative ladder". Is it worth (in dollars and cents) the opportunity cost if you want a career in administration?

I'm just a student so I don't really understand how these things work once you get out there and start working as an EM doc.

Also there are administrative fellowships where you earn your MBA (USF). Is this a game-changer?

From the sound of it then, there aren't really super-lucrative positions within hospital administration, CMGs, or small democratic groups that the MBA is going to get you. Sounds like it's not really worth the time or investment.

Thanks for the replies. I'd love to hear some more opinions!

 

[Noj11]

Since there appears to be some interest in this topic, I’ll weigh in.

I am completing an ED admin fellowship (where I also obtained an MBA).

Here are my general thoughts on fellowship/MBA: It all depends what you think you want to do in the future. Below are my opinions. There are plenty of counter examples so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.


1. If your goal is to be an ED director (especially in the community), a fellowship and/or MBA will give you a leg up but isn’t absolutely required. In many places, if you have an interest in administration, it is easy to be promoted since many ED docs are not interested.

2. If you think you want to run an academic emergency department then having either a fellowship or MBA will be very helpful (probably along with some publications on ED admin)

3. If you think you want to consider options outside ED admin, such as hospital admin or consulting then an MBA is most helpful. Only 5% of hospital CEO’s in the US have MD’s (few with any formal business training). Most hospital CEO’s are business professionals.

4. For hospital related jobs, a masters in Healthcare management or similar degree is sufficiently interchangeable with an MBA. These degrees will give you more depth in healthcare whereas an MBA will give you more breadth (IE in an MBA you learn about accounting, marketing, and private equity etc…). An MBA is recognized in the non-healthcare business world. The other non-MBA options are respected within healthcare.

I decided to do the combined EM fellowship /MBA because I figured that if I was going to work clinically while doing my MBA, I might as well benefit from a formalized EM fellowship training on ED admin. You definitely get paid less doing this, but you get great practical admin experience in an Academic ED. Plus you double count your time. Instead of saying that I obtained an MBA and did some moonlighting, I can say I have an MBA and completed an ED admin fellowship.


If people have more specific questions, PM me.