ADO for UMO prior to FTIS/FTOS Surgery Residency?

[350011]

So what's the ADO on a 4-year HPSP after a 3-year UMO tour followed by the remaining 4 years of a FTIS/FTOS GENS residency? Since ADO accumulated during HPSP and GME are served concurrently, would it be the full additional 4-years of residency training (3 years of HPSP gone, but 4 years of GENS concurrent with the remainng year of HPSP)? Additionally and probably the main reason I ask, does this delay opportunities for promotion or recommissioning bonuses as you delay Board Certified/Eligible status by 3 years? Also, could you do Undersea Medicine after finishing a Surgery Residency or is that unheard of? Just trying to figure out the chunk of retirement eligibility accounted for by ADO and how sequence affects things.

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[IgD]

Start: 4 year HPSP scholarship

Internship (dead time), payback = 4 years active duty

3 year UMO tour, payback down to 1 year active duty

4 year general surgery residency, payback increases to 4 years active duty

 

[sethco]

Amazingly, if you enter a civilian residency after serving a 3 year UMO tour (assuming a 4 year commitment), no additional ADSC is accrued. Therefore, after you finish residency, you would owe 1 year service and then be done with your obligation. Then again, I am sure that the JSGME would be aware of this and would be unlikely to give you a civilan deferment, knowing that you would only have to serve one year after residency (But that is just my assumption, it is "impossible" to know what exactly the JSGME is thinking when they make their decisions)

 

[Dr. Wexler]

Then again, I am sure that the JSGME would be aware of this and would be unlikely to give you a civilan deferment, knowing that you would only have to serve one year after residency (But that is just my assumption, it is "impossible" to know what exactly the JSGME is thinking when they make their decisions)

By this same logic, is JSGME less willing (or totally unwilling) to give civillian deferments to medical officers coming off a GMO tour who only have 2 years of their obligation left? I have always wondered about this.

Or on the other hand, might the military to prefer give you a deferment to get one or two years out of you as an attending rather than just keep you in as a GMO?

 

[350011]

My concern is that if I were to do a UMO tour before residency I'd be pushed back in consideration for promotion in rank and increases in responsibility. If someone could highlight the typical promotion time points for a Navy Physician/Surgeon (if they differ, I am inclined to the latter) that would be great. I just can't seem to figure the time scales for first promotion review since the Navy UMO I've been talking to is an O-4 starting his 2nd UMO Tour--making him an O4 at 7 years, just seemed early compared to the line. I get superceding as an intern to O3, but beyond that I can't figure out what the promotion system is like. For instance, do you automatically become an O-4 when you finish residency, regardless of duration (i.e anesthesia's 4 years versus neurosurg's six/seven)? Any insights are welcomed.

 

[sethco]

By this same logic, is JSGME less willing (or totally unwilling) to give civillian deferments to medical officers coming off a GMO tour who only have 2 years of their obligation left? I have always wondered about this.

I have a friend that applied while he was at SAM for an Opthamology residency (to begin after 2 years of service as a FS). He got a civilian deferment, but unfortuanetly he wanted a military residency. Never found out whether or not he was successful in securing a position. Sorry, this is the best way I know how to answer this question. Otherwise, it is all speculation.

Or on the other hand, might the military to prefer give you a deferment to get one or two years out of you as an attending rather than just keep you in as a GMO?

Another question that probably can't be answered as it would be all speculation, but the military (at least the AF) has a great need for operational docs NOW. I am sure that they have no problem keeping people as a GMO/FS for 4 years and watch them leave after their initial commitment is up. The reason that they do this is because they know that they are meeting their recruiting numbers and will have the next batch of GMOs ready by the time the previous ones are ready to leave. If they did not want this to happen, they would send out an AFI stating that GMOs must start a residency program (PGY-2 year) within 3 years of graduating med school. But they don't, so this is just my theory. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[sethco]

My concern is that if I were to do a UMO tour before residency I'd be pushed back in consideration for promotion in rank and increases in responsibility. If someone could highlight the typical promotion time points for a Navy Physician/Surgeon (if they differ, I am inclined to the latter) that would be great. I just can't seem to figure the time scales for first promotion review since the Navy UMO I've been talking to is an O-4 starting his 2nd UMO Tour--making him an O4 at 7 years, just seemed early compared to the line. I get superceding as an intern to O3, but beyond that I can't figure out what the promotion system is like. For instance, do you automatically become an O-4 when you finish residency, regardless of duration (i.e anesthesia's 4 years versus neurosurg's six/seven)? Any insights are welcomed.

Promotions in rank have (usually) nothing to do with whether you did a residency right out of med school or did an internship then GMO tour. Promotions are simple. When you graduate med school, you are recommisioned as an O-3. 6 years after your graduation date, you are promoted to O-4. You really have to screw up in order to not be promoted. Some individuals may get promoted before the 6 years, but usually not that much before. You can't compare the line to medical when it comes to promotion. You can still be in residency/fellowship and be promoted. There are a number of stories of O-5 and O-6s being residents and the still the highest ranking officers in their departments.