Advice? DVM vs PhD

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melrose20

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  1. Pre-Veterinary
I'm currently a junior in college and I'm stuck on whether I want to go to vet school or go for a career in research (probably neuro-physiology). I have been involved with research at my university and I LOVE the problem solving aspect of it, writing papers, analyzing data, interpreting results, etc. However, even though I love the theory/science aspect of it, I'm a very outdoorsy/nature loving person and I don't enjoy bench work. I'm not sure if I could be happy spending my life in a lab setting....

On the other hand, my personality fits with the outdoorsy hands-on aspect of vet-med (I'm interested in large animal), but veterinary school is incredibly expensive, hours are unpredictable, and I'm not a fan of seeing many treatment decisions being based on money (though realistically I understand it, morally I'd have trouble with this..). Does anyone have advice? Thanks!!!
 
It sounds like you're trying to make a decision about both careers based on theory and how that matches your personality rather than what either career actually entails. The practical matter of it and how that manifests day to day for 30+ years is something you can't just philosophize. You really need to figure out that info before making a decision by following around real people in different part of their careers in both fields.

My SO is a neurophysio PhD (has had his degree for 5+ years), and I strongly considered a molecular bio research career after working full time in it for a couple years before vet school. For the research track, I can tell you that your career in it is very different than i had imagined it to be when I was in undergrad. Industry is a whole different game (and sometimes it's actually not that easy to suddenly make that leap even though you hear so many people fed up in academia always say, "I'm just going to go into industry one day"). But if you stay in academia, you either be a bench person for much of your career (which apparently you don't like) making pennies as a lowly research non-tenure track professor after a cycle of likely multiple post-docs. That's going to be the most hands on. Or if you are successful in moving up the chain, you start doing more and more paperwork and less and less hands on things. The exciting planning and analyzing and initial putting together of this stuff for publications and kind of gets overshadowed by all the grant writing, rather repetitive sort of recycling of the same info between grants, papers, abstracts, talks, posters, etc... If you thought a life of benchwork was bad, many of these people spend an enormous amount of time in an office with so much paperwork reminiscing the days they got to spend more time on experimental design and data collection/analysis back in their early days. Some people love that career and bust their butts day in and day out to continue making it in this publish or perish trajectory. It can be a great atmosphere overall with passionate colleagues with a sense of camaraderie... or a miserable cut throat one where everyone is out to get ya.

Also Don't just base your decision on what your professor's life appears to be, because the chances that you will 'make it' as a full tenured professor is so slim nowadays. Find ways to talk to post-docs late in their post-docs (esp the ones doing a 2nd or 3rd one), PI's in academic institutions that don't teach, research lifers who don't have their own labs, industry researchers, etc... Or at least a few people who can tell you about all these paths IN neurophysiology if you are sure that is what you want to study.

Same thing for large animal vets. Find people to shadow and talk to that have been in the field for a long time, as well as recent grads both about their lifestyles and work. Also realize that a lot of large animal people end up doing small animal because they either can't find work, or because it becomes too much for their bodies.
 
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I definitely agree with the above poster. Try shadowing both professions before deciding. However, if you decide you like the clinical aspect of veterinary medicine and analyzing data/writing papers in research, you might consider applying to a DVM/PhD program. Several of these offer support for at least some of your years of vet med. I'd search the forums to find other discussions - at least one recent-ish discussion had a link to a website listing all of the websites with a dual degree program.
 
A must-read for people considering a science PhD. Depressing, but accurate.

http://www.johnskylar.com/post/107416685924/a-career-in-science-will-cost-you-your-firstborn

Research funding is in the toilet right now....I hate to say it, but I would only proceed with extreme caution in getting a science PhD. You need to be 100% committed, passionate about research including benchwork since that will be the majority of your work unless you want to get into computational modeling, be willing to put up with insane hours for little pay, all the no guarantee of a job at the end of it.

You will be doing benchwork for years (not just during the 5 or so years of the PhD itself, but for the years and post-doc work afterwards as well), and then IF you get a tenure-track job (only ~8% of people who enter PhD programs achieve this) you will be writing grants and papers all day.....If you cannot tolerate benchwork and don't think you would be happy in a lab setting, then do not stop, do not pass go, do not collect $100. Don't do it.

NSF_PhDs_Academic_Jobs-thumb-615x414-114239.png
 
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Research funding is in the toilet right now....I hate to say it, but I would only proceed with extreme caution in getting a science PhD. You need to be 100% committed, passionate about research including benchwork since that will be the majority of your work unless you want to get into computational modeling, be willing to put up with insane hours for little pay, all the no guarantee of a job at the end of it.

The sad thing is, I'm not sure things are much different if the alternative is LA vet... (in the dont do it unless 100% passionate and committed cause prospects aren't that good sense). With the DVM comes the debt... and that's a rough thing to regret. It's a job that is sooo not worth it unless you absolutely love what you do.

In both cases you end up pretty much living paycheck to paycheck. With the PhD, the perk is that you tend to be able to take fairly generous vacation times and benefits tend to be solid because you usually work for a much larger entity. I earn about double my boyfriend, and will probably continue to earn 30-40% more even if is kept on as a low level faculty researcher position for life. But then with my debt load, I'm putting most of my earnings into paying my loans as I plan on paying it off sooner rather than later.
 
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Thank you so much for the detailed and realistic information. I really really appreciate it. Currently I have about 500 research hours (neuroscience/stem cell research)and 200 shadowing hours so I'm trying to get as much experience as I can, but its still hard to think about a 4 year $160,000 investment at 19 years old.... I'm really interested in the fully funded DVM/PhD programs but I know that these are incredibly competitive.

I know that there are a lot of downsides to the profession, and its certainly not the most lucrative, but are you ultimately happy with your decision to pursue vet-med? Or would you take it back if you had the chance?
 
My bf and I are both very happy with our careers. He's someone who was never gunning to become a PI, and doesn't want to teach. He loves what he does and would love to be a scientist that designs and executes experiments for the rest of his career.

I love what I do as well and feel like I have the most amazing job in the world, though I honestly think I would have been happy pursuing molecular bio as a career as well.

The amount of satisfaction we both have with our careers is likely colored by our financial status though. We are not living an extravagant lifestyle by any means. Actually our ability to live a frugal lifestyle contributes to our finances greatly. But due to a few different factors, my debt load isn't too bad and given that we continue to live as frugally as we do for the next 4-5 years, we should be able to pay off my loans, save for retirement, and have kids and live a middle class lifestyle. If this were not true I think our opinions on our career choices might be different.
 
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