Advice for 50-Year Old Considering Med School

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MDDO112

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Hello, everyone. I recently posted here seeking school list advice having recently (almost) completed my post-bacc, and it was incredibly helpful, so I figured I’d ask a couple of things for my parents as well. I’m posting this on behalf of my mother, who doesn’t really know anything about SDN/reddit/other med-related forums. She’s been struggling for the past year for a career start, and she was always interested in medicine since she was young, but was never able to pursue it due to extraneous circumstances (and I really do mean extraneous circumstances).

She has an incredible backstory, which I won’t be going into detail for anonymity, but the gist of it is sacrificing her career and personal life to go through 15-20 years of immigration process in 3 different countries for her kids (me and my brother; it seriously involved a lot of grit on her part), facing USCIS/green card process essentially on her own (complicated relationship with my father), and now that my younger brother has all grown up, she’s looking to finally start something for her own.

Her “stats”:

She resides in CA. She’s a permanent resident.

She holds a bachelor’s/masters from a top university in a non-NA country. She held a 3.1-3.2 GPA undergrad, and 3.9 masters (non-science degrees). She doesn’t remember what specific classes she took, but she thinks some were chemistry/other introductory science courses.

She’s recently been taking classes at a community college. She took Anatomy 1 and 2, Gen Bio 1, English, Psych, and Introductory Chemistry. She holds a 4.0 so far.

She recently started volunteering at a hospital. Her EC hours are almost none as of now.

I guess her stats are similar to that of a 2nd semester freshman. Good start so far, no solid numbers yet. I told her about the differences between MD/DO. She doesn’t care.

The questions/answers I’d like to relay to her are:

1) She’s having a lot of doubts and fear of ageism in her starting a journey to a medical career. Although I told her anything is possible in medicine, and there are people who go to med school at an old age, but I don’t have personal experience in the area. Brutally honestly, will ageism (if it even exists in admission processes) affect her in any significant way? She personally doesn’t have a problem with her practicing medicine at a much older age.

2) Will she need to get a bachelor’s or some kind of degree from a US institution? Because she already has a bachelor’s, I don’t think she can even transfer or get another degree due to a lack of 2nd degree programs in California. If so, what options can she look into for accreditation? Perhaps move to another state?

3) I personally don’t have doubts in her abilities in going to med school, as I think being absent from an academic for almost 25+ years and being able to get straight A’s in anatomy and English as a non-native English speaker first year shows dedication/ability.

Are there any advice you can give for her? She thinks her “window of opportunity” has passed for medical school. Is that true to some extent? How can she solve her bachelor’s situation?

@Goro was tremendously helpful for me. What are your inputs on this? Thanks for your advice.
 
Honestly, it doesn't sound like a financially sound decision to start a medical career in your fifties. By the time that she finishes all of her training, she will be super close to being 60 -- and at that point, is she willing to give up prime retirement years because she needs to pay off $100-200k of student loans? I think she would be better off becoming a PA; schooling is only 3 years long, and they can start practicing the second they step off the graduation stage.
 
MDDO112 said:
Hello, everyone. I recently posted here seeking school list advice having recently (almost) completed my post-bacc, and it was incredibly helpful, so I figured I’d ask a couple of things for my parents as well. I’m posting this on behalf of my mother, who doesn’t really know anything about SDN/reddit/other med-related forums. She’s been struggling for the past year for a career start, and she was always interested in medicine since she was young, but was never able to pursue it due to extraneous circumstances (and I really do mean extraneous circumstances).

She has an incredible backstory, which I won’t be going into detail for anonymity, but the gist of it is sacrificing her career and personal life to go through 15-20 years of immigration process in 3 different countries for her kids (me and my brother; it seriously involved a lot of grit on her part), facing USCIS/green card process essentially on her own (complicated relationship with my father), and now that my younger brother has all grown up, she’s looking to finally start something for her own.

Her “stats”:

She resides in CA. She’s a permanent resident.

She holds a bachelor’s/masters from a top university in a non-NA country. She held a 3.1-3.2 GPA undergrad, and 3.9 masters (non-science degrees). She doesn’t remember what specific classes she took, but she thinks some were chemistry/other introductory science courses.

She’s recently been taking classes at a community college. She took Anatomy 1 and 2, Gen Bio 1, English, Psych, and Introductory Chemistry. She holds a 4.0 so far.

She recently started volunteering at a hospital. Her EC hours are almost none as of now.

I guess her stats are similar to that of a 2nd semester freshman. Good start so far, no solid numbers yet. I told her about the differences between MD/DO. She doesn’t care.

The questions/answers I’d like to relay to her are:

1) She’s having a lot of doubts and fear of ageism in her starting a journey to a medical career. Although I told her anything is possible in medicine, and there are people who go to med school at an old age, but I don’t have personal experience in the area. Brutally honestly, will ageism (if it even exists in admission processes) affect her in any significant way? She personally doesn’t have a problem with her practicing medicine at a much older age.

2) Will she need to get a bachelor’s or some kind of degree from a US institution? Because she already has a bachelor’s, I don’t think she can even transfer or get another degree due to a lack of 2nd degree programs in California. If so, what options can she look into for accreditation? Perhaps move to another state?

3) I personally don’t have doubts in her abilities in going to med school, as I think being absent from an academic for almost 25+ years and being able to get straight A’s in anatomy and English as a non-native English speaker first year shows dedication/ability.

Are there any advice you can give for her? She thinks her “window of opportunity” has passed for medical school. Is that true to some extent? How can she solve her bachelor’s situation?

@Goro was tremendously helpful for me. What are your inputs on this? Thanks for your advice.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty much going to have to advise against this. 50 is my cut off line.

Medical school is not the Make-A-Wish Foundation
 
OP it's gonna take her at least two years I'd say to finish her pre reqs, get clinical experience, take the MCAT, and apply. Then 4 years of school, then residency, etc. You're looking at a decade before she's a practicing physician. I can't imagine going through the grind that is med school at this age. I can't recommend she do this. PA, accelerated nursing, these are better options.
 
OP. Like others have mentioned, it really isn't worth it going to medical school at 50. From what it seems your mother doesn't even have the pre-reqs or ECs to even apply soon so it'll be at least another couple of years before she can apply then 4 years of medical school and then more years of residency. And to be brutally honest, ageism is real. Residency is not a task that's easily accomplished even for those of us who are young. Even in non-surgical specialties you're required to either take 24 hour call and/or night float. You might think "oh that's no big deal" but it's a strain on you body. There's a reason why older attendings don't take call or prefer not to do 24 hour call. IT SUCKS. As a resident you're expected to do these things. You think you can do this at 60? I'm not talking about mental/intellectual capacity, I'm talking about the actual PHYSICAL toll of training. If she's really gungho into going into medicine maybe consider nursing or NP or PA but even then the opportunity cost is just not worth it. At 50 she should be thinking about retirement not drowning in debt.
 
It is technically doable, have to find a school to take you.The math doesn't add up for me. Return on investment, time and and stress on the body. Sorry, but CC anatomy is not med school anatomy. My son is a 1st yr resident and the call and physical demands are daunting. Not sure I could do it at nearly 60 yrs of age. I agree with the above ,would go PA. Good luck and best wishes
 
This is purely an anecdote, but my cousin is 55 and got into a DO school on her second cycle last year. She had amazing stats (3.9GPA, 52x MCAT), several years of research, good ECs in non-science areas and didn't even get an II on her first cycle. Sure there could have been other factors (she's a good writer but could have thrown up a red flag in her primary or secondary), but I'm pretty sure ageism played a not insignificant role.

Med schools don't always take the best applicants, or I guess more accurately they take the best applicants that match their mission. They talk about holistic review, about their desire to increase the number of physicians in underserved/underrepresented areas and specialties. Some fulfill these stated goals better than others, but when it comes down to it no matter how stats focused many of these schools are giving a spot to someone who is very likely to have only a decade or so of independent practice for a career just doesn't make a lot of sense.

N=1, but I'm pretty sure ageism is a very real thing for adcoms and comes on pretty strong once the applicant gets much beyond 40 or so. For a lot of reasons, being a midlevel provider or nurse makes a lot more sense for your mom.
 
Not a good investment:
1) As pretty much everyone else has said -- it isn't financially a good idea. It is too much money to take out at that age. Better to pick a shorter path like accelerated nursing program or PA school - she can still help people without having to go through a 7-10 year schooling process.

Family:
2) your mom will be crazy busy and is going to miss a large portion of her next 4-7 years of her life that she could spend traveling, spending time with her family, what if her kids need her, what if one of you get sick?? or she gets grandkids. She's going to want to be around in case her family needs her. Most people around age 50 have to start taking care of their parents, or their older siblings, or their grandkids. She needs to be thinking about what responsibilities come at her age. Starting a career like medicine requires a person to devote their life to it.

Hobbies/travel/leisure:
3) Wouldn't she rather spend her 50's and 60's traveling. If she has financial support from a spouse, why not choose a career that gives her more time off so she can travel, be with family, enjoy her hobbies, etc... Medicine isn't going to allow her time off until she is an attending 7-10 years from when she actually starts.
 
MDDO112 said:
I’m posting this on behalf of my mother, who doesn’t really know anything about SDN/reddit/other med-related forums. She’s been struggling for the past year for a career start, and she was always interested in medicine since she was young, but was never able to pursue it due to extraneous circumstances (and I really do mean extraneous circumstances).

She has an incredible backstory, which I won’t be going into detail for anonymity, but the gist of it is sacrificing her career and personal life to go through 15-20 years of immigration process in 3 different countries for her kids (me and my brother; it seriously involved a lot of grit on her part), facing USCIS/green card process essentially on her own (complicated relationship with my father), and now that my younger brother has all grown up, she’s looking to finally start something for her own.

Her “stats”:

She resides in CA. She’s a permanent resident.

She holds a bachelor’s/masters from a top university in a non-NA country. She held a 3.1-3.2 GPA undergrad, and 3.9 masters (non-science degrees). She doesn’t remember what specific classes she took, but she thinks some were chemistry/other introductory science courses.

She’s recently been taking classes at a community college. She took Anatomy 1 and 2, Gen Bio 1, English, Psych, and Introductory Chemistry. She holds a 4.0 so far.

She recently started volunteering at a hospital. Her EC hours are almost none as of now.

I guess her stats are similar to that of a 2nd semester freshman. Good start so far, no solid numbers yet. I told her about the differences between MD/DO. She doesn’t care.

The questions/answers I’d like to relay to her are:

1) She’s having a lot of doubts and fear of ageism in her starting a journey to a medical career. Although I told her anything is possible in medicine, and there are people who go to med school at an old age, but I don’t have personal experience in the area. Brutally honestly, will ageism (if it even exists in admission processes) affect her in any significant way? She personally doesn’t have a problem with her practicing medicine at a much older age.

2) Will she need to get a bachelor’s or some kind of degree from a US institution? Because she already has a bachelor’s, I don’t think she can even transfer or get another degree due to a lack of 2nd degree programs in California. If so, what options can she look into for accreditation? Perhaps move to another state?

3) I personally don’t have doubts in her abilities in going to med school, as I think being absent from an academic for almost 25+ years and being able to get straight A’s in anatomy and English as a non-native English speaker first year shows dedication/ability.

Are there any advice you can give for her? She thinks her “window of opportunity” has passed for medical school. Is that true to some extent? How can she solve her bachelor’s situation?

@Goro was tremendously helpful for me. What are your inputs on this? Thanks for your advice.
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In response to your question #2:
SymphonyNo9 said:
A Guide to Applying US Med School with a Foreign Bachelor Degree

Citizenship:

It is significantly better if you have a US citizenship or a green card. Most med schools require one. However, I personally know a few international students who have done well and got accepted to some particular schools. If you are an international student, ask the schools or check on their websites to find out the eligibility.


Course Requirement: (the most important part, IMO)

Med schools have different course requirements, especially for us who did not attend to a US/Canadian college. I emailed/called a lot of schools to ask or to confirm what’s on their websites. Based on what I got, the requirement can be categorized into the following:
  1. A US bachelor degree is required. Mayo has been mentioned several times. I found some other schools have the same requirement.

  2. An advanced degree in the US is required, such as a master or PhD, with a foreign bachelor degree. I personally don’t have one, and I don’t remember seeing many of them.

  3. 30, 60, or 90 semester hours in the US, with a foreign bachelor degree. A lot of schools are in this category, IIRC. Some schools might require all undergraduate level courses, while some accept master/PhD level courses.

  4. 1 or 2 years of study in the US, with a foreign bachelor degree. Might be undergraduate level or other advanced degree level depending on schools.

  5. Prerequisites in the US. What courses count as prerequisites also depends on schools.

  6. International/foreign degrees or credits are acceptable. They are rare but they do exist.
As you can see, some categories are overlapping. I personally did 60 semester hours including pre-reqs, and that’s a 2-year full-time study in the US. That limits me from applying schools that require a US degree or 90 hours, but I do have plenty schools to choose from categories 3~6.

That being said, you can go through different paths. I know some people using their extra time to take pre-reqs while doing a master/PhD in the US. You can also go to a formal or DIY post-bacc program. A second bachelor degree is another good choice. I’m not sure about transferring credits to US schools, but in theory this might work.

Bottom line, a foreign/non-Canadian bachelor degree is acceptable and not required in most cases if you have some coursework done in the US. If you have an advanced degree in the US, it’s a plus. If you have a 2nd bachelor in the US, you’re golden. And ask schools about their policies if needed.


AMCAS:

The foreign coursework will not be verified by the AMCAS and you don’t need to send the foreign transcript, period. I listed all of them anyway to let schools see my other courses. Nevertheless, if you only have foreign coursework in the AMCAS, your GPA in it is zero. Your GPA in the AMCAS will be calculated from your US coursework. (This actually works in my favor) Some schools might want to see your foreign courses and degree evaluation from WES or similar corporations, but it’s not required by the AMCAS. I personally had not been asked for one for med school application.


ECs:

Just like other applicants, we need all sorts of ECs. However, in addition to leadership, sports, artistic endeavor, etc., I strongly suggest a good amount of clinical exposure in the US even if you have done some oversea. Clinical volunteering or shadowing are necessary, IMO. The reason is that you have to be familiar with the health care in the US.


Others:

I didn’t specifically bring up anything about why I want to come to the US in the primary app, secondaries, or interviews. I was only asked in a few interviews to compare the health care in two different countries. However, be prepared for this “why US” type of question.


Strategy:

As everyone else, my strategy for applying was to maximize my chance. Yet, I didn’t want to do research while doing my US coursework, so no Master or PhD. I also wanted to take the risk of not spending a long time. Therefore, I planned my own path and fortunately it works. So plan your path according to your own situation.

I also have done extensive research on the course requirement of most, if not all, schools. It’s important to know which schools you want to go to and you are eligible to apply. Then it will be an easier, maybe only slightly, work when generating a school list for primary application.

Finally, please remember there are many aspects in the application, GPA, MCAT, PS, ECs, LORs, secondaries, interviews, etc. This is only my personal experience and opinion for planning a path and finding out chances before applying with a unique situation. Also, I believe it’s far from comprehensive since my knowledge is limited. I also don’t have enough experience with DO schools, transfer courses, community college, etc.
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Thanks for the advice, everyone. I'll let her know the giant uphill battle she faces if she decides on it. It just makes me feel very guilty (and grateful) that a huge reason she couldn't pursue this dream when she was younger was for me and my brother.
 
MDDO112 said:
Thanks for the advice, everyone. I'll let her know the giant uphill battle she faces if she decides on it. It just makes me feel very guilty (and grateful) that a huge reason she couldn't pursue this dream when she was younger was for me and my brother.
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We all make choices in life.
 
MDDO112 said:
Thanks for the advice, everyone. I'll let her know the giant uphill battle she faces if she decides on it. It just makes me feel very guilty (and grateful) that a huge reason she couldn't pursue this dream when she was younger was for me and my brother.
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Here's some perspective from someone also around your mom's age:

My mom was waitlisted at a MD school when I was still a baby. She didn't re-apply, and she didn't even know DO existed back then. I asked her if she would ever want to go back and try to be a doctor now, and she told me: "I'm happy knowing you're going to be a doctor, and also I'm enjoying life way too much." -- She's literally traveling the world going on multiple vacations per year, dressing up fancy & going to galas, going on yoga retreats with friends, spending time with her family, and finding spirituality through meditation.

Maybe have your mom think deeply about what she enjoys in life!
 
I wouldn't call it ageism as it implies maleficence on the part of the adcoms for being skeptical. It simply isn't a good economic move for the school or your mom. Sure, somewhere might let her in, but should she take it if offered? By the time she finished residency she'd have maybe a few years of actually practicing before retirement (assuming she retires around the same age as most individuals) which would leave her with barely any money to retire with. It would be too much work to invest for only a few years of actual practice.

Highly recommend PA here:
-Less debt, which can be paid off sooner
-Less time spent in school (3 years instead of 7 or more)
-Day to day work style would be very similar to that of a physician
 
EMS0821 said:
I wouldn't call it ageism as it implies maleficence on the part of the adcoms for being skeptical. It simply isn't a good economic move for the school or your mom. Sure, somewhere might let her in, but should she take it if offered? By the time she finished residency she'd have maybe a few years of actually practicing before retirement (assuming she retires around the same age as most individuals) which would leave her with barely any money to retire with. It would be too much work to invest for only a few years of actual practice.

Highly recommend PA here:
-Less debt, which can be paid off sooner
-Less time spent in school (3 years instead of 7 or more)
-Day to day work style would be very similar to that of a physician
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Indeed. We want graduates who will be able to practice for the next 30+ years.
 
MDDO112 said:
At what age does it start to become "ehhh" for adcoms? Mid 30's? Early 40's?
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This will vary from Adcom member to member. My cutoff is late forties. My school's oldest matriculant ever was 53. He was not a great student, but managed to get through and is an ER doc somewhere in the Midwest.

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. One of my best students ever is now a brand new practicing FM doc in Southern CA, at age 53 or 54.
 
Goro said:
This will vary from Adcom member to member. My cutoff is late forties. My school's oldest matriculant ever was 53. He was not a great student, but managed to get through and is an ER doc somewhere in the Midwest.

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. One of my best students ever is now a brand new practicing FM doc in Southern CA, at age 53 or 54.
Click to expand...

Do you think age concern extends into residency matches as well for competitive programs? If all goes well, I'll be matriculating at 29, which means I'll be graduating at 33. Would my older age be an obstacle in competitive residencies that take a long time, like neurosurgery/other specialized surgeries?
 
EMS0821 said:
I wouldn't call it ageism as it implies maleficence on the part of the adcoms for being skeptical. It simply isn't a good economic move for the school or your mom. Sure, somewhere might let her in, but should she take it if offered? By the time she finished residency she'd have maybe a few years of actually practicing before retirement (assuming she retires around the same age as most individuals) which would leave her with barely any money to retire with. It would be too much work to invest for only a few years of actual practice.

Highly recommend PA here:
-Less debt, which can be paid off sooner
-Less time spent in school (3 years instead of 7 or more)
-Day to day work style would be very similar to that of a physician
Click to expand...

Don’t forget making six figures! I genuinely believe PA is a great option!
 
MDDO112 said:
Do you think age concern extends into residency matches as well for competitive programs? If all goes well, I'll be matriculating at 29, which means I'll be graduating at 33. Would my older age be an obstacle in competitive residencies that take a long time, like neurosurgery/other specialized surgeries?
Click to expand...
I can't answer for the wise PDs. @aProgDirector ...any thoughts?
 
MDDO112 said:
Do you think age concern extends into residency matches as well for competitive programs? If all goes well, I'll be matriculating at 29, which means I'll be graduating at 33. Would my older age be an obstacle in competitive residencies that take a long time, like neurosurgery/other specialized surgeries?
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No.
 
I wonder if an over-50 medical student could get student loans. It seems like it might be a risky proposition for the lender. I've known some older matriculants, but they were self-funded, not relying on loans.
 
MDDO112 said:
Do you think age concern extends into residency matches as well for competitive programs? If all goes well, I'll be matriculating at 29, which means I'll be graduating at 33. Would my older age be an obstacle in competitive residencies that take a long time, like neurosurgery/other specialized surgeries?
Click to expand...

That’s not old. The average medical school graduate is ~29. Being another 10+ years older would be a different story.
 
MDDO112 said:
Do you think age concern extends into residency matches as well for competitive programs? If all goes well, I'll be matriculating at 29, which means I'll be graduating at 33. Would my older age be an obstacle in competitive residencies that take a long time, like neurosurgery/other specialized surgeries?
Click to expand...
Agree, not an issue
 
MDDO112 said:
Hello, everyone. I recently posted here seeking school list advice having recently (almost) completed my post-bacc, and it was incredibly helpful, so I figured I’d ask a couple of things for my parents as well. I’m posting this on behalf of my mother, who doesn’t really know anything about SDN/reddit/other med-related forums. She’s been struggling for the past year for a career start, and she was always interested in medicine since she was young, but was never able to pursue it due to extraneous circumstances (and I really do mean extraneous circumstances).

She has an incredible backstory, which I won’t be going into detail for anonymity, but the gist of it is sacrificing her career and personal life to go through 15-20 years of immigration process in 3 different countries for her kids (me and my brother; it seriously involved a lot of grit on her part), facing USCIS/green card process essentially on her own (complicated relationship with my father), and now that my younger brother has all grown up, she’s looking to finally start something for her own.

Her “stats”:

She resides in CA. She’s a permanent resident.

She holds a bachelor’s/masters from a top university in a non-NA country. She held a 3.1-3.2 GPA undergrad, and 3.9 masters (non-science degrees). She doesn’t remember what specific classes she took, but she thinks some were chemistry/other introductory science courses.

She’s recently been taking classes at a community college. She took Anatomy 1 and 2, Gen Bio 1, English, Psych, and Introductory Chemistry. She holds a 4.0 so far.

She recently started volunteering at a hospital. Her EC hours are almost none as of now.

I guess her stats are similar to that of a 2nd semester freshman. Good start so far, no solid numbers yet. I told her about the differences between MD/DO. She doesn’t care.

The questions/answers I’d like to relay to her are:

1) She’s having a lot of doubts and fear of ageism in her starting a journey to a medical career. Although I told her anything is possible in medicine, and there are people who go to med school at an old age, but I don’t have personal experience in the area. Brutally honestly, will ageism (if it even exists in admission processes) affect her in any significant way? She personally doesn’t have a problem with her practicing medicine at a much older age.

2) Will she need to get a bachelor’s or some kind of degree from a US institution? Because she already has a bachelor’s, I don’t think she can even transfer or get another degree due to a lack of 2nd degree programs in California. If so, what options can she look into for accreditation? Perhaps move to another state?

3) I personally don’t have doubts in her abilities in going to med school, as I think being absent from an academic for almost 25+ years and being able to get straight A’s in anatomy and English as a non-native English speaker first year shows dedication/ability.

Are there any advice you can give for her? She thinks her “window of opportunity” has passed for medical school. Is that true to some extent? How can she solve her bachelor’s situation?

@Goro was tremendously helpful for me. What are your inputs on this? Thanks for your advice.
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No.
 
As a older nontrad student myself I would have to say that each person and their circumstances are different. Therefore, the outcomes will vary for everyone. Yeah, she may not get accepted as readily as a 25 year old, or even a 35 year old, but there are alot of 20 and 30 somethings who don't get accepted either. If this is a goal your mom has desired to reach, then she should realize her own dreams. I had a OBGYN who left footprints on my life when I had my daughter some years ago. This man graduated med school in his 50's. He was a priest in his previous life. He fell in love with a woman and married her. "True story, I couldn't make this up", So he decided to change careers...lol. Just because your mom wants to go against the grain doesn't mean she's wrong. She should decide for herself if she wants to pursue this, eyes wide open, knowing she could be rejected like many others have been.
Yeah, there's no ROI in it for her, and maybe not even for some schools, as someone mentioned. But not everything is about what you can get back from it.
Good luck to her, regardless what she decides!
 
No. As others noted, she's too old, and it's not financially feasible.

I'd also point out that PA school is also expensive, so please ignore the advice re: a career as a PA. Taking on 6 figures of debt at age 50 is foolish.

There are plenty of great non-medical careers that she can take on at age 50 that don't require more schooling.
 
PA all the way!

Seriously, my daughter’s bestie went the PA route and after only 26 months she’s working and earning a very nice salary. For someone who is 50, going to med school would just be a poor choice.
Not only that, I think many med schools only accept citizens.

Tell her to be getting her hands-on-patient-care hours.

Look at PA programs to see what they’ll demand as far as education in addition to her foreign education. Some may only demand a certain number of US credits, including the prereqs.

There are so many new PA programs popping up; this is just a smarter route for her.
 
PreMedMissteps said:
PA all the way!

Seriously, my daughter’s bestie went the PA route and after only 26 months she’s working and earning a very nice salary. For someone who is 50, going to med school would just be a poor choice.
Not only that, I think many med schools only accept citizens.

Tell her to be getting her hands-on-patient-care hours.

Look at PA programs to see what they’ll demand as far as education in addition to her foreign education. Some may only demand a certain number of US credits, including the prereqs.

There are so many new PA programs popping up; this is just a smarter route for her.
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Just FYI, all med schools accept people with green cards as well, and some do also accept international students.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile
 
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Over 40 is too old to start the process of getting into Med school. We are not immortal. We have expiration dates. It’s sucks but it’s reality. Med school is a ridiculously long and life consuming process for a 22 year old. It’s insane for a 50 year old.

I gave up my youth to do this and I’m pissed every day. I can’t imagine giving up you last good healthy years only to start your career as an old person, post menopausal or with an enlarged prostrate and erectile dysfunction.

It’s a 13-15 year process from the time you take you sign up for your first pre req until the time you are board certified. George w bush was still well in his first term when I started and I still have a few more years until I have that sweet sweet BC on my c.v.
 
atomi said:
I gave up my youth to do this and I’m pissed every day.
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Been there. (Particularly as a woman of childbearing age, I watched all my friends have kids and most of them are on their second, and I still don’t have any, and it bothers me; but I would still do it all over again if I could.) I suggest you talk to someone. Therapy helped me. We have sacrificed too much to hate where we end up...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Goro said:
This will vary from Adcom member to member. My cutoff is late forties. My school's oldest matriculant ever was 53. He was not a great student, but managed to get through and is an ER doc somewhere in the Midwest.

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. One of my best students ever is now a brand new practicing FM doc in Southern CA, at age 53 or 54.
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Goro, not trying to out you or disrespect you, but you often refer to your "best students" as if you're a Headmaster at Hogwarts...How can you know your students so well and whether or not they are good or not? There is not a single medical school teacher/professor/attending/assistant dean/dean/etc. who can actually know how good a student is.
 
Syncrohnize said:
Goro, not trying to out you or disrespect you, but you often refer to your "best students" as if you're a Headmaster at Hogwarts...How can you know your students so well and whether or not they are good or not? There is not a single medical school teacher/professor/attending/assistant dean/dean/etc. who can actually know how good a student is.
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*sigh* I don't merely interact with the students in the anatomy lab, you know.

At the minimum, we faculty know how well our students are doing academically in all four years. If you are define "best" as how their clinical skills are, we can see their clinical grades and shelf exam results, for whatever that is worth, plus Board scores. Our clinical faculty usually talk about the best students and their clinical skills, and typically these older students are in that group,and they, more than anyone else, should know what a good medical student is.

In addition, they are routinely wonderful human beings.
 
atomi said:
It’s a 13-15 year process from the time you take you sign up for your first pre req until the time you are board certified. George w bush was still well in his first term when I started and I still have a few more years until I have that sweet sweet BC on my c.v.
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That’s quite a reality check :wow:
 
atomi said:
Over 40 is too old to start the process of getting into Med school. We are not immortal. We have expiration dates. It’s sucks but it’s reality. Med school is a ridiculously long and life consuming process for a 22 year old. It’s insane for a 50 year old.

I gave up my youth to do this and I’m pissed every day. I can’t imagine giving up you last good healthy years only to start your career as an old person, post menopausal or with an enlarged prostrate and erectile dysfunction.

It’s a 13-15 year process from the time you take you sign up for your first pre req until the time you are board certified. George w bush was still well in his first term when I started and I still have a few more years until I have that sweet sweet BC on my c.v.
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Why are you pissed every day
 
atomi said:
I gave up my youth to do this and I’m pissed every day. I
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jarednogeek said:
Why are you pissed every day
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Perhaps he’s frequently reminded of the freedoms his peers have who’ve pursued other less-demanding career paths. It can be hard to be a poor med student or poor resident while your friends are earning a good living, traveling, dating, etc.
 
PreMedMissteps said:
Perhaps he’s frequently reminded of the freedoms his peers have who’ve pursued other less-demanding career paths. It can be hard to be a poor med student or poor resident while your friends are earning a good living, traveling, dating, etc.
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I know quite a few medical students who have met, gotten engaged, gotten married, and even had kids while both partners were in medical school. I’ve known med students who go out every other weekend, party, go on dates and have fun. It’s all about finding the balance between grades and mental well being. There’s also specialties that definitely allow for a work life balance most of the time even while in residency. I do agree with the poor part, but in the long term your income/net worth will far outpace most of America even with 6 figure debt.

Hopefully before you pursue the field you weigh the pros and cons to make sure it’s the right decision for you, so that you won’t be pissed about your job everyday. I know if you’ve found out too late and acccumulated the debt it’s not that’s easy, but something to consider for pre-meds.

I also think a lot of the personalities that medicine draws would be working their @ss off even if they chose a different career.
 
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OP Although people have already given a number of reasons why this would be difficult. There are a few other issues, she would have to complete 60+ credits of college credit and pre-reqs which could take a minimum of two years. She would have to take the mcat. Even after all of that she could end up not getting accepted, not because of ageism by itself , but just because she may not have the numbers to suggest that she could complete medical school. The difficulty in addition to age is the foreign degree. My suggestion would be to go into direct NP program where she could graduate with the ability to practice at the end or PA . It will save her 3 years of residency on both fronts and is a more surefire way of actually getting accepted compared to MD/DO admissions.
 
nimbus said:
Speaking from experience, 50 is not that old. I still have weeks where I work over 80hours and I’m happy with that.
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I agree that 50 is not old in terms of working ability especially if you are already trained and have been working that way for years, but you have to remember that she won't be able to work until she is around 60. It does not make sense to go to school for that long at that age especially since she needs to start from scratch. I agree with the others that it would better for her to be a nurse or PA if she wants to be in the medical field.
 
Updating everyone on her decision. I've spoken to her a lot about it, and after many long talks, she decided living her life by exploring new things/traveling/pursuing hobbies far outweighs chasing a medical dream she had 20+ years ago. She still wants a career in the medical field, so she's looking into going to PA school.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.
 
atomi said:
Over 40 is too old to start the process of getting into Med school. We are not immortal. We have expiration dates. It’s sucks but it’s reality. Med school is a ridiculously long and life consuming process for a 22 year old. It’s insane for a 50 year old.

I gave up my youth to do this and I’m pissed every day. I can’t imagine giving up you last good healthy years only to start your career as an old person, post menopausal or with an enlarged prostrate and erectile dysfunction.

It’s a 13-15 year process from the time you take you sign up for your first pre req until the time you are board certified. George w bush was still well in his first term when I started and I still have a few more years until I have that sweet sweet BC on my c.v.
[/QUOT

And this is the exact reason so many physicians are leaving medicine. They are like yourself that never took a break. Never experienced life. Getting burned out because they have done nothing else. You sound like a very naive "Child" that has no idea about life than what you have read in a text book.
I am about to be 40 and starting med school in the fall. I have a degree in Biology/Pre-Med and have been in the industry for years. It has completely burned me but it also has allowed me to travel the world on someone else's dime. Buy and sell homes, all on my own. Have really nice things. With all that said, I also wasn't doing what made me happy and loved, which has always been medicine since I was 10. Someone, such as myself, that you consider "Old" has so much life experience to speak to patients. I have held my father's hand while he took his last breath, watched my friends deteriorate and be brought back to life when their 10 y/o daughter was diagnosed with Ewings Sarcoma and a year later had to go to Mayo for 3 months to have her hip and spinal nerves removed and rebuilt to where she is 14 and has a colostomy bag and catheter the rest of her life. BUT she is alive and thriving. I have seen friends have babies and lose them. The joys and sorrows that come with all that. So if you want to to feel like you have wasted your life, go for it, but for us "Old" people who want to make medicine better for patients and make ourselves happy, we will do just that!
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EMS0821 said:
I wouldn't call it ageism as it implies maleficence on the part of the adcoms for being skeptical. It simply isn't a good economic move for the school or your mom. Sure, somewhere might let her in, but should she take it if offered? By the time she finished residency she'd have maybe a few years of actually practicing before retirement (assuming she retires around the same age as most individuals) which would leave her with barely any money to retire with. It would be too much work to invest for only a few years of actual practice.

Highly recommend PA here:
-Less debt, which can be paid off sooner
-Less time spent in school (3 years instead of 7 or more)
-Day to day work style would be very similar to that of a physician
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It IS ageism if AGE alone is the greatest factor for determining acceptance, period, end of story. Of course individuals and groups often conveniently find pretexts under which they reject a candidate.

That said, at any point in one's life it's a huge choice to make, b/c it requires so much all along from start to finish. Medicine does not seem particularly good at developing into the profession work/life balance. It seems that is an issue at any age, b/c at age stage, life is always filled with many demands--more for some individuals than others.

Weigh all in the balance, regardless of age.
 
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