Advice from Prof for Applicants to PhD Programs

[SeerumPsych]

Hello,
Thank you for taking the time answer our questions. I have been accepted to a professional clinical psychology PhD program(great program with top-notch faculty but costs 30k+/year). My interests line up well with the faculty there and I have the option of working with several different professors. Do you think I should attend and make the best of it? Will I be "shooting myself in the foot" before my career even starts? Do I have any chance of becoming a professor if I attend this program? The other option is to take a year off and reapply in September. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

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[GradStudent87]

I would first like to thank you for answering our questions. I have several questions I would like to ask but I'll stick to the the main one for now. I have been a psychology major and applied to doctoral and master's programs this year. I did not get into any doctoral programs and have been wait listed for one. I have been accepted into several masters programs. If I get into the PsyD for which I am on the waiting list I will attend, but my question is more in regards to the master's programs. One thing I have been pondering is for someone with a strong undergraduate background in psychology and a strong GPA(although a mediocre GRE) is a master's program valuable or necessary? I see it more for people who have lacked a strong psychology background or a strong GPA in Psychology.
I have some background in research but not really in the area that I am interested in studying. I also have clinical experience in the sense that I volunteered in a child-adolsecent psychiatric unit but I mainly tutored them there, rather than engaging in much clinical work. My main debate is does it make more sense to attend a master's program or to go and try to find more impactful research/clinical experiences without a masters degree? Also as far as getting into a PsyD or more clinical oriented PhD's, what do you think is more valuable-- research or clinical experience? If I do decide to attend a master's program does prestige of the school/program have any real effect on getting into a doctoral program? Thank you very much for any assistance you could provide.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hello,
Thank you for taking the time answer our questions. I have been accepted to a professional clinical psychology PhD program(great program with top-notch faculty but costs 30k+/year). My interests line up well with the faculty there and I have the option of working with several different professors. Do you think I should attend and make the best of it? Will I be "shooting myself in the foot" before my career even starts? Do I have any chance of becoming a professor if I attend this program? The other option is to take a year off and reapply in September. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Your options are probably more limited at a free-standing professional school then at a university-based program. Unfortunately, I do not have much more information on this, however.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I would first like to thank you for answering our questions. I have several questions I would like to ask but I'll stick to the the main one for now. I have been a psychology major and applied to doctoral and master's programs this year. I did not get into any doctoral programs and have been wait listed for one. I have been accepted into several masters programs. If I get into the PsyD for which I am on the waiting list I will attend, but my question is more in regards to the master's programs. One thing I have been pondering is for someone with a strong undergraduate background in psychology and a strong GPA(although a mediocre GRE) is a master's program valuable or necessary? I see it more for people who have lacked a strong psychology background or a strong GPA in Psychology.
I have some background in research but not really in the area that I am interested in studying. I also have clinical experience in the sense that I volunteered in a child-adolsecent psychiatric unit but I mainly tutored them there, rather than engaging in much clinical work. My main debate is does it make more sense to attend a master's program or to go and try to find more impactful research/clinical experiences without a masters degree? Also as far as getting into a PsyD or more clinical oriented PhD's, what do you think is more valuable-- research or clinical experience? If I do decide to attend a master's program does prestige of the school/program have any real effect on getting into a doctoral program? Thank you very much for any assistance you could provide.

A Masters program can help people get research experience and demonstrate their potential to succeed at grad level coursework (i.e., GPA). If you were looking to PhD programs one day, then research experience would be helpful to your application. A RA position is an option too.

 

[brightsideup]

what counts as research experience? or a better question might be what does quality experience look like? do research proposals or experiments from classes or independent study count? right now im a RA but i feel more like a secretary. go get this go get that. look this up. write a lit review on that.

also what counts as clinical experience? can this be volunteer or internship experiences?

I'm looking at school psychology phd programs.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

what counts as research experience? or a better question might be what does quality experience look like? do research proposals or experiments from classes or independent study count? right now im a RA but i feel more like a secretary. go get this go get that. look this up. write a lit review on that.

also what counts as clinical experience? can this be volunteer or internship experiences?

I'm looking at school psychology phd programs.

A quality research experience will involve at least some tasks where you get to learn how to think like a scientist. This means that you are talking about research, thinking about hypotheses, discussing the literature, interpreting results, etc. You may not do all of these in a lab, but some would be good. The lit review experience you mention sounds potentially valuable!

As for clinical experience, there's not much you can do that simulates the kind of clinical work you'd do in grad school, so this is less essential. For school psych, I suppose that getting some experience administering or scoring assessments could be good?

 

[brightsideup]

A quality research experience will involve at least some tasks where you get to learn how to think like a scientist. This means that you are talking about research, thinking about hypotheses, discussing the literature, interpreting results, etc. You may not do all of these in a lab, but some would be good. The lit review experience you mention sounds potentially valuable!

As for clinical experience, there's not much you can do that simulates the kind of clinical work you'd do in grad school, so this is less essential. For school psych, I suppose that getting some experience administering or scoring assessments could be good?

Thanks for the information! I feel better about what my Prof. is asking me to do. Also, I did a lot of coding for a professor in an independent study "class" where I was an undergrad research assistant. I got a grade for my work though. Is that worth mentioning on the CV?

I would to clarify that I'm an MSW student. The clinical experience I was talking about was my clinical internships (Co-facilitating group therapy, family, and individual therapy etc). I was wondering if that would be important to mention to a school that values work/clinical experience.

 

[PsycFan]

I am trying to decide whether to attend a high-quality M.S. in psychology program or whether to work as a paid research coordinator for a clinical psyc lab (though not in my specific area of interest) at a major research university.

I plan on applying to PhD programs next fall (2010).

I have a high undergraduate GPA, majored in psychology, and experience in three labs (social, clinical, social/clinical).

For the last two years I've been working (unrelated to psyc).

I have specific research interests... I'm just not sure whether I want to obtain a PhD in social or clinical.

Given my background, what would look best to grad schools, completing a master's or full-time lab experience?

Thank you very much for your advice.

 

[PsycFan]

Here's where I'm at right now:
- I want to obtain a PhD.
- I have specific research interests (i.e., human sexuality, gender differences, mate choice, etc.)

- I'm NOT sure what field of psychology I'd like to get a PhD in (social, clinical, cog, or neuro).

Option 1 - Attend Psychology M.S.
Pros:
- will do independent research in my area of interest
- professor there who shares similar research interests
- will take course in biopsyc (which I didn't take as an undergraduate and may look good when applying to PhD programs, though I know you said isn't a big deal)
- will get refresher on subfields of psychology, which may help me decide what field I want to apply to PhD programs in
- opportunity to work in serveral labs
- opportunity for multiple new recommendation letters
- very research-based master's (M.S. not M.A.)
- will go confidently into PhD program
- will help prepare me to take Subject GRE (I know may not be a big deal)


Cons:
- Master's is very cognitive/neuro focused (could be a good thing if I end up enjoying that subfield...)
- did not receive funding, will probably need to find part-time job
- will probably have to repeat work once in a PhD program (may not get credit for master's work)
- already have a high GPA from undergrad (3.8)

Option 2 - Working as a paid research coordinator/assistant at research university

Pros:
- may then have an "in" at that school
- will help me determine whether I'm interested in working in that subfield of psychology (e.g., clincial, neuro)
- as the coordinator for the lab, will have a good idea of what working as a PhD student and working as a professor involves
- paid
- will gain significant research experience

Cons:
- research not within my specific area of interest (I'm not opposed to gaining exposure to other areas of research, just not sure how PhD programs will view it)


What's more attractive to PhD programs?

THANK YOU!!!

 

[prada]

you are the answer to my prayers, thank you so much for doing this!!!! my question is very specific, sorry it probably won't apply to anyone else. the question is this: i failed out of law school after my first year and am wondering if this is going to completely ruin my chances of being admitted to a clinical phd program. there is a very good reason for why i even enrolled in the first place as well as what happened while i was there, which i can tell you, but i don't want to bore you with a long explanation.

i have a bs in psychology and a ma in forensic pyschology with cum laude gpa's, 3 years of research experience at one of the most prestigious universities in the country, and stellar recommendations (no gre scores yet, need to retake them because they're over 5 years old, i'm 28). are they going to look at my law school transcripts and immediately put me in the throw away pile? sorry to be a bother, it's just been driving me crazy obsessing over this...

 

[adolprogdir]

First of all, thank you so much for your help! I have completed an M.Ed. in Community Counseling in 2008 and now I'm looking for a Ph.D. program. I eventually want to become a clinician primarily - so I've been researching different Counseling Psyc programs. I was wondering if there is a difference in creditials (or major program differences) from an APA vs CACREP accredited program?

 

[amphigory]

I've been long confused about what constitutes research experience and I figure it's time to ask.

I have worked for many years as an RA in psychiatry, mostly genetic studies of mood d/os. So I was recruiting and enrolling participants, performing standardized clinical interviews, and doing triage for our VA mood clinic. But I wasn't involved with any research hypotheses, posters, or papers, and the lab meetings were always genetic and mostly over my head. I was working with the populations but not contributing to the science.

My for-pay work now is mostly in medicine so I have been working as a volunteer in a behavior lab in psychology, so I'm getting the research design experience and attending lab meetings that are actually interesting to me. I hope to get a paper or at least a thesis out of this.

I've always assumed the years of psychiatry RA work were more of a job -- would this be perceived as research experience for a clinical psych program? Would a separate listing on my CV of "research experience" and "professional experience" be appropriate, or does this all fall under the same heading?

Thank you very much for your time.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Thanks for the information! I feel better about what my Prof. is asking me to do. Also, I did a lot of coding for a professor in an independent study "class" where I was an undergrad research assistant. I got a grade for my work though. Is that worth mentioning on the CV?

Absolutely!

I would to clarify that I'm an MSW student. The clinical experience I was talking about was my clinical internships (Co-facilitating group therapy, family, and individual therapy etc). I was wondering if that would be important to mention to a school that values work/clinical experience.

Yes, that would be good.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I am trying to decide whether to attend a high-quality M.S. in psychology program or whether to work as a paid research coordinator for a clinical psyc lab (though not in my specific area of interest) at a major research university.

I plan on applying to PhD programs next fall (2010).

I have a high undergraduate GPA, majored in psychology, and experience in three labs (social, clinical, social/clinical).

For the last two years I've been working (unrelated to psyc).

I have specific research interests... I'm just not sure whether I want to obtain a PhD in social or clinical.

Given my background, what would look best to grad schools, completing a master's or full-time lab experience?

Thank you very much for your advice.

Either choice would make sense. A Masters program will help you demonstrate that you have the ability to function at the grad level (courses, masters thesis, etc). If your GPA and GRE scores already demonstrate this potential well, then the research position may be helpful to figuring out your specific area of research interest.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Here's where I'm at right now:
- I want to obtain a PhD.
- I have specific research interests (i.e., human sexuality, gender differences, mate choice, etc.)

- I'm NOT sure what field of psychology I'd like to get a PhD in (social, clinical, cog, or neuro).

Option 1 - Attend Psychology M.S.
Pros:
- will do independent research in my area of interest
- professor there who shares similar research interests
- will take course in biopsyc (which I didn't take as an undergraduate and may look good when applying to PhD programs, though I know you said isn't a big deal)
- will get refresher on subfields of psychology, which may help me decide what field I want to apply to PhD programs in
- opportunity to work in serveral labs
- opportunity for multiple new recommendation letters
- very research-based master's (M.S. not M.A.)
- will go confidently into PhD program
- will help prepare me to take Subject GRE (I know may not be a big deal)


Cons:
- Master's is very cognitive/neuro focused (could be a good thing if I end up enjoying that subfield...)
- did not receive funding, will probably need to find part-time job
- will probably have to repeat work once in a PhD program (may not get credit for master's work)
- already have a high GPA from undergrad (3.8)

Option 2 - Working as a paid research coordinator/assistant at research university

Pros:
- may then have an "in" at that school
- will help me determine whether I'm interested in working in that subfield of psychology (e.g., clincial, neuro)
- as the coordinator for the lab, will have a good idea of what working as a PhD student and working as a professor involves
- paid
- will gain significant research experience

Cons:
- research not within my specific area of interest (I'm not opposed to gaining exposure to other areas of research, just not sure how PhD programs will view it)


What's more attractive to PhD programs?

THANK YOU!!!

This is a good list of pros and cons - I agree with most of this. I think either way could work well for you. I really don't think one path or the other is an obvious better choice from an admissions perspective.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

you are the answer to my prayers, thank you so much for doing this!!!! my question is very specific, sorry it probably won't apply to anyone else. the question is this: i failed out of law school after my first year and am wondering if this is going to completely ruin my chances of being admitted to a clinical phd program. there is a very good reason for why i even enrolled in the first place as well as what happened while i was there, which i can tell you, but i don't want to bore you with a long explanation.

i have a bs in psychology and a ma in forensic pyschology with cum laude gpa's, 3 years of research experience at one of the most prestigious universities in the country, and stellar recommendations (no gre scores yet, need to retake them because they're over 5 years old, i'm 28). are they going to look at my law school transcripts and immediately put me in the throw away pile? sorry to be a bother, it's just been driving me crazy obsessing over this...

No, I doubt that this will in itself ruin your chances, particularly if there is a reasonable explanation.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

First of all, thank you so much for your help! I have completed an M.Ed. in Community Counseling in 2008 and now I'm looking for a Ph.D. program. I eventually want to become a clinician primarily - so I've been researching different Counseling Psyc programs. I was wondering if there is a difference in creditials (or major program differences) from an APA vs CACREP accredited program?

Sorry - I wish I could help, but I am not very familiar with the counseling psychology world.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I've been long confused about what constitutes research experience and I figure it's time to ask.

I have worked for many years as an RA in psychiatry, mostly genetic studies of mood d/os. So I was recruiting and enrolling participants, performing standardized clinical interviews, and doing triage for our VA mood clinic. But I wasn't involved with any research hypotheses, posters, or papers, and the lab meetings were always genetic and mostly over my head. I was working with the populations but not contributing to the science.

My for-pay work now is mostly in medicine so I have been working as a volunteer in a behavior lab in psychology, so I'm getting the research design experience and attending lab meetings that are actually interesting to me. I hope to get a paper or at least a thesis out of this.

I've always assumed the years of psychiatry RA work were more of a job -- would this be perceived as research experience for a clinical psych program? Would a separate listing on my CV of "research experience" and "professional experience" be appropriate, or does this all fall under the same heading?

Thank you very much for your time.

Yes, I think this would be important research experience to list.

I'd think of research experience as having two purposes:
1. Do you understand how research is conducted in psychology, and do you have the skills to assist with research in grad school and beyond. For instance, are you familiar with ethical issues, IRB, recruitment, enrollment, standardized testing, specific psychology research paradigms (e.g., observational measures, standardized interviews, psychophysiological assessment, intervention delivery, etc).
2. Have you learned about theories and past findings in a particular area(s) of psychology research interest. Do you understand limitations of past work, seminal articles, the goals and hypotheses of the work you are assisting on, the theories that guide work in this area, etc.

Many people obtain one type of research experience, but not the other. Ideal experiences give you training in both. Good personal statements convey that you have had both types of experience, but many only talk about one. This may be a good way to think about how to get good research experience.

 

[kent christoph]

For those unable to get into most MA programs, do you think something like the Harvard Extension school(open admissions Masters of Liberal Arts)would be a reasonable stepping stone?


Thanks so much.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

For those unable to get into most MA programs, do you think something like the Harvard Extension school(open admissions Masters of Liberal Arts)would be a reasonable stepping stone?


Thanks so much.

Don't know much about it, but it couldn't hurt!

 

[GradStudent87]

I have been thinking lately about volunteering for the Samaritans suicide prevention hotline. Would this be considered a valued clinical experience? Thank You.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I have been thinking lately about volunteering for the Samaritans suicide prevention hotline. Would this be considered a valued clinical experience? Thank You.

Valuable for what? If you mean clinical PhD admission, there are very few clinical experiences one can get before grad school that really will help one's application meaningfully.

 

[GradStudent87]

Valuable for what? If you mean clinical PhD admission, there are very few clinical experiences one can get before grad school that really will help one's application meaningfully.

Yes I meant both as in helping me obtain admission to a doctoral program as well as giving me some skills/tools that could be useful for me and better prepare me for counseling/therapy. I know PhD's value research experience much more then clinical experience but what about PsyD's?

 

[futureapppsy2]

I'm spending part of my summer in the city of a school that I'll likely be applying to next year. Would there be any harm in contacting my POI to see if she would like to meet in person while I'm in town?

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Yes I meant both as in helping me obtain admission to a doctoral program as well as giving me some skills/tools that could be useful for me and better prepare me for counseling/therapy. I know PhD's value research experience much more then clinical experience but what about PsyD's?

Sorry, I do not know about PsyDs.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I'm spending part of my summer in the city of a school that I'll likely be applying to next year. Would there be any harm in contacting my POI to see if she would like to meet in person while I'm in town?

No harm trying, but don't be surprised if the answer is No. It would be unfair for faculty to meet with students who happen to be in town, potentially giving them an unfair advantage over those who do not have the resources to travel for a spontaneous trip.

 

[krisrox]

Hey Doc,

Long-time reader of this thread, first-time poster.

I was wondering if there's a general stigma toward applicants who choose to apply right out of undergrad. I feel like I have enough research experience both independently and with various labs and stellar numbers. Would merely being young be a cause of concern for PhD programs?

Thanks!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hey Doc,

Long-time reader of this thread, first-time poster.

I was wondering if there's a general stigma toward applicants who choose to apply right out of undergrad. I feel like I have enough research experience both independently and with various labs and stellar numbers. Would merely being young be a cause of concern for PhD programs?

Thanks!

Not at all. No stigma whatsoever.

 

[GradStudent87]

I have two questions, the first is I've taken the GRE twice already, both times i scored 640 on math. Verbal I did bad the first time scoring 450 and mediocre the second time scoring 530. Would you recommend retaking the GRE's a third time even if i feel realistically my math score won't change or may even go down a little. I feel I could pull my verbal score up more. However in the event I didn't pull my score up more would that hurt me that i took it three times? Would it also hurt if my math score went down a little or would they just focus on the highest score?

My second question is will completing a Master's thesis enhance my chances of getting into a PhD program. I am looking into two master's programs and one requires a thesis and the other requires a project which is more of an extensive literature review. Thank you so much for your help.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I have two questions, the first is I've taken the GRE twice already, both times i scored 640 on math. Verbal I did bad the first time scoring 450 and mediocre the second time scoring 530. Would you recommend retaking the GRE's a third time even if i feel realistically my math score won't change or may even go down a little. I feel I could pull my verbal score up more. However in the event I didn't pull my score up more would that hurt me that i took it three times? Would it also hurt if my math score went down a little or would they just focus on the highest score?

My second question is will completing a Master's thesis enhance my chances of getting into a PhD program. I am looking into two master's programs and one requires a thesis and the other requires a project which is more of an extensive literature review. Thank you so much for your help.

If your score goes up significantly, then I don't think there's a problem taking the GRE three times at all. If your V+Q sum basically stays the same, then taking it three times has demonstrated your level of achievement is pretty stable - and if that level is too low for clinical phd programs, then you don't have much of an argument that the GRE was an inaccurate measure. In other words, I would suggest only taking it again if you have evidence that your scores will go up significantly.

As for a Masters, this can be helpful for those with low undergrad GPAs or others without much research experience. In eitehr case, the Masters can help fill in some holes. Otherwise, not sure the Masters increases candidacy at all.

 

[AlaskanJustin]

Wow its been quite a journey reading through 20 pages of posts... all of which very informative.

So here is my short story.

I was a psychology undergrad that started very young (16), and was involved in research very young. My research experiences varied hugely within psychology. As I progressed in the program, I thought I wanted to do an MD/PhD (PhD in neuropsych) so I pursued the requirements for the MD AND began doing research in non-psych fields.

The premed requirements hurt me, bringing my gpa down to ~3.4, (psych gpa 3.9). Also while doing these requirements, I received a summer research fellowship in neuroscience/immunology, and my mentor liked me so much that she offered me a 2 year post-bacc position at the NIH doing neuroimmunology research.

I am finishing the first year of this, starting the second and after all this I know now I want to do clinical psych with an emphasis not pertaining anywhere near what I am doing now (more closely to what I did early on).

I will have several first author works (either submitted or in preparation) as well as posters and abstracts. Im retaking the GRE because my old scores, good as they were, are too old.

Questions: 1. Realistically, although I have great research experience in both psych-related and non-related fields, how will my last two years do for me? I would like to think that I can argue I was young and unsure but now I am sure of what I want to do. Also I can argue that I have a great basic and social science research background, do you think this is good?

2. I have emailed a few admissions chairs, department chairs and have received mixed answers (all clin psy phd) some say that this is great experience especially being at the NIH, others say you will REALLY have to make the argument that psych is the right field and that I match with someone there. WHAT is your insight into this? What would you tell me if I had emailed you?

3. How will the GPA hurt me, especially since my psych gpa was great

I would love to hear your opinions on my case.

Thanks much

 

[monkeycows]

Hi,
I have a cGPA of 3.62 (I know its low but I didn't do well on my previous major), major GPA of 3.98, and two minors (one with 3.81, another 3.71). I have 3 yrs of research experience in 3 labs, and 1 yr in two other labs. I'm in honors program and was chosen to assist in teaching courses for this program. I'm doing two thesis currently, have done two posters and two presentations, and have served as teachers assistant for another two courses besides the honors classes. I think *hopefully* i can get around a 1300 on GREs since my SAT scores were pretty good. I am graduating and planning to get additional 2 yrs of research experience as a RA.

***I was wondering if I want to apply to top tier schools, do I have NO chance at all. If so, what GRE should I be aiming for? (I worry because english is my second language so verbal section will be most tricky for me)

***Also, what mostly worries me is that I decide to drop two of my courses in my last undergrad quarter. I have a total of 3 withdrew courses (one for when I switched from pre-med/human bio background to psych, and two in my last quarter for a history minor which I dropped). I dropped the two classes mainly because I was working on the labs, posters, presentations, etc at the same time, and I decided that my history minor wouldn't be that much of a boost for my application. I was also applying for grants from orgs and scholarships. I have a set job at a prestigious lab for next 2 yrs after graduation but I worry will my 3 W's (withdrew classes) be a problem, my low cumulative GPA, and if dropping my minor would be a huge deal.


Thanks for taking time to give us advice. It's nice to know some academias like you still care about those struggling to get into grad school!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Wow its been quite a journey reading through 20 pages of posts... all of which very informative.

So here is my short story.

I was a psychology undergrad that started very young (16), and was involved in research very young. My research experiences varied hugely within psychology. As I progressed in the program, I thought I wanted to do an MD/PhD (PhD in neuropsych) so I pursued the requirements for the MD AND began doing research in non-psych fields.

The premed requirements hurt me, bringing my gpa down to ~3.4, (psych gpa 3.9). Also while doing these requirements, I received a summer research fellowship in neuroscience/immunology, and my mentor liked me so much that she offered me a 2 year post-bacc position at the NIH doing neuroimmunology research.

I am finishing the first year of this, starting the second and after all this I know now I want to do clinical psych with an emphasis not pertaining anywhere near what I am doing now (more closely to what I did early on).

I will have several first author works (either submitted or in preparation) as well as posters and abstracts. Im retaking the GRE because my old scores, good as they were, are too old.

Questions: 1. Realistically, although I have great research experience in both psych-related and non-related fields, how will my last two years do for me? I would like to think that I can argue I was young and unsure but now I am sure of what I want to do. Also I can argue that I have a great basic and social science research background, do you think this is good?

if you can make a link between what you did and what you now want to do - any link at all based on theory, methods, or anything - then this certainly would help. otherwise, i am not sure I would argue that you varied in your level of certainty. i might suggest reframing this a bit in terms of growth in your interests and describe how your ideas have evolved. a constructive thoughtful discussion of your path (if it is indeed a linear one) would probably read well.

2. I have emailed a few admissions chairs, department chairs and have received mixed answers (all clin psy phd) some say that this is great experience especially being at the NIH, others say you will REALLY have to make the argument that psych is the right field and that I match with someone there. WHAT is your insight into this? What would you tell me if I had emailed you?

both are correct. your research experience is great, and you need to discuss what you learned from this experience. but a match is essential. so, the statement must go beyond a description of your pat work and include more than a mere sentence or two about your current interests. make a strong case for what you want to study in clinical psych, and why, and how you see a match with a specific faculty member.

3. How will the GPA hurt me, especially since my psych gpa was great

GPA is fine

I would love to hear your opinions on my case.

Thanks much

...

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Hi,
I have a cGPA of 3.62 (I know its low but I didn't do well on my previous major), major GPA of 3.98, and two minors (one with 3.81, another 3.71). I have 3 yrs of research experience in 3 labs, and 1 yr in two other labs. I'm in honors program and was chosen to assist in teaching courses for this program. I'm doing two thesis currently, have done two posters and two presentations, and have served as teachers assistant for another two courses besides the honors classes. I think *hopefully* i can get around a 1300 on GREs since my SAT scores were pretty good. I am graduating and planning to get additional 2 yrs of research experience as a RA.

***I was wondering if I want to apply to top tier schools, do I have NO chance at all. If so, what GRE should I be aiming for? (I worry because english is my second language so verbal section will be most tricky for me)

The higher the GRE the better. A 1350 or better would be good.

***Also, what mostly worries me is that I decide to drop two of my courses in my last undergrad quarter. I have a total of 3 withdrew courses (one for when I switched from pre-med/human bio background to psych, and two in my last quarter for a history minor which I dropped). I dropped the two classes mainly because I was working on the labs, posters, presentations, etc at the same time, and I decided that my history minor wouldn't be that much of a boost for my application. I was also applying for grants from orgs and scholarships. I have a set job at a prestigious lab for next 2 yrs after graduation but I worry will my 3 W's (withdrew classes) be a problem, my low cumulative GPA, and if dropping my minor would be a huge deal.

i doubt many will even notice this on your transcript.

Thanks for taking time to give us advice. It's nice to know some academias like you still care about those struggling to get into grad school!

....

 

[mrsthomas]

I sincerely appreciate it.

I have a 3.65c/3.72major gpa, 3 poster presentations, 3 research projects, research assistant award (IRTA) for the NIH/NICHD, stellar letters of recommendation, currently working as lead teacher for treatment program for children with behavioral problems and special needs (promoted to program coordinator within two months of employment and likely to get a great letter of recommendation from there as well), etc

i applied to 6 schools, through a terrible mistake,
2 schools rejected me for incomplete applications because of my maiden/married name mix-up,
2 school outright rejected me,
1 said i made the short list but not the short short list because of lack of biological science background,
1 school: i was second choice but the first choice accepted their offer. (tough competition!)

i am going to apply again this year. however i need to know where to strengthen my application. i emailed all professors ahead of time to ensure fit. (interested in risk factors for the development clinical depression in children, specifically parental transmission of risk and resiliency factors) my GRE scores leave something to be desired

v-580 (81%)
q-680 (67%)
a-5.0 (77%)
Psych- 650 (64%) (subscales: 33% experim, 90% social)

i also have little interest in biological sciences but im told that is where the funding is. i will do a masters if i have no choice but i prefer a PhD. will improving my gre scores help improve my chances, do i need to take more classes? WHAT AM I TO DO?

Thank you.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

I sincerely appreciate it.

I have a 3.65c/3.72major gpa, 3 poster presentations, 3 research projects, research assistant award (IRTA) for the NIH/NICHD, stellar letters of recommendation, currently working as lead teacher for treatment program for children with behavioral problems and special needs (promoted to program coordinator within two months of employment and likely to get a great letter of recommendation from there as well), etc

i applied to 6 schools, through a terrible mistake,
2 schools rejected me for incomplete applications because of my maiden/married name mix-up,
2 school outright rejected me,
1 said i made the short list but not the short short list because of lack of biological science background,
1 school: i was second choice but the first choice accepted their offer. (tough competition!)

i am going to apply again this year. however i need to know where to strengthen my application. i emailed all professors ahead of time to ensure fit. (interested in risk factors for the development clinical depression in children, specifically parental transmission of risk and resiliency factors) my GRE scores leave something to be desired

v-580 (81%)
q-680 (67%)
a-5.0 (77%)
Psych- 650 (64%) (subscales: 33% experim, 90% social)

i also have little interest in biological sciences but im told that is where the funding is. i will do a masters if i have no choice but i prefer a PhD. will improving my gre scores help improve my chances, do i need to take more classes? WHAT AM I TO DO?

Thank you.

Higher GRE scores and research experience will be essential for admission in PhD clinical programs

 

[landcal02]

Dear DrClinPsyAdvice,

I have a bit of an off question to ask. I have a friend/co-worker who recently accepted admission into a phd program in clinical psych for this fall. To make a long story short I've been concerned about him for a long time. He's been incredibly pessimistic and ambivalent about the whole clinical psychology thing since inception. But more importatnly he's expressed in the past that he's engaged in self-harm behaviors (cutting) but that he hasn't done it in over a year (which I didn't really believe). Low and behold, it turns out he had been engaging in cutting throughout the year and again during application submission time (a stressful time, I know, as I went through the whole process myself). After months and months of basically nagging him to get into therapy, he finally went and has been going on and off for a couple of months. I know there isn't much I can do, but my question is, for his sake, if he doesn't get help for this and continues to stay sort of in denial about the seriousness of his behaviors, can a program throw him out if they find out about this????

 

[MNIkid87]

Dear DrClinPsyAdvice,

thanks for hanging in there so long answering all these questions.
i have one or two more, if you don't mind. First of all, do adcoms only care about research experience that is directly relevant to psychology / directly in the field of psychology/psychiatry? A substantial part of my experience (i.e. > one year full-time) is not in psychology but will rather be in a subspecialty of internal medicine. Some of the stuff is still applicable though (the research universals such as participant recruitment, grant-writing, data analysis etc.). I also have some psych experiences (~2 years in 2 labs), but I am worried that my current experience will be overlooked due to not being considered relevant).

Secondly, how important is it to apply early? I believe that my current supervisor can write me a significantly stronger reference letter in late November than in mid-September, seeing as I am still quite new in the lab.

Thanks so much in advance for answering my questions =)

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Dear DrClinPsyAdvice,

I have a bit of an off question to ask. I have a friend/co-worker who recently accepted admission into a phd program in clinical psych for this fall. To make a long story short I've been concerned about him for a long time. He's been incredibly pessimistic and ambivalent about the whole clinical psychology thing since inception. But more importatnly he's expressed in the past that he's engaged in self-harm behaviors (cutting) but that he hasn't done it in over a year (which I didn't really believe). Low and behold, it turns out he had been engaging in cutting throughout the year and again during application submission time (a stressful time, I know, as I went through the whole process myself). After months and months of basically nagging him to get into therapy, he finally went and has been going on and off for a couple of months. I know there isn't much I can do, but my question is, for his sake, if he doesn't get help for this and continues to stay sort of in denial about the seriousness of his behaviors, can a program throw him out if they find out about this????

More likely, the program will help this student get help if they find out. Hopefully, this student will feel comfortable to seek help on their own and recognize that this is a serious issue.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Dear DrClinPsyAdvice,

thanks for hanging in there so long answering all these questions.
i have one or two more, if you don't mind. First of all, do adcoms only care about research experience that is directly relevant to psychology / directly in the field of psychology/psychiatry? A substantial part of my experience (i.e. > one year full-time) is not in psychology but will rather be in a subspecialty of internal medicine. Some of the stuff is still applicable though (the research universals such as participant recruitment, grant-writing, data analysis etc.). I also have some psych experiences (~2 years in 2 labs), but I am worried that my current experience will be overlooked due to not being considered relevant).

Secondly, how important is it to apply early? I believe that my current supervisor can write me a significantly stronger reference letter in late November than in mid-September, seeing as I am still quite new in the lab.

Thanks so much in advance for answering my questions =)

I think that psych experience is definitely better and will be seen as more relevant. Although there are some research experience universal skills, the psych skills are essential.

As for applying early - it will not help in the least. Most everyone will look at the applications once they have all come in, and no one really knows whose came in first.

 

[starbyshort]

This is my first post to this forum!
Anyways...

1. For two summers I have worked under a PhD at a prestigious hospital who deals with a specific disorder (for simplicity's sake, lets say Disorder X). I have learned quite a lot about said disorder but I am not interested in focusing on it when I (hopefully) get into a Clinical PhD program (although I have greatly enjoyed my summer experiences). However, because I have gained a lot of knowledge on the topic, I feel it would be to my advantage to discuss it at length in my application and interviews. Maybe I should even look for a faculty member who deals with disorder x.

If I get into a program, I know I wont want to do research in disorder x. How much should I emphasize my interest in pursuing further research with disorder x?

2. It seems that most of the programs I've looked at have deadlines around Dec. 1st. Am I to understand that most clinical PhD programs don't have rolling admissions?

3. Is it ok to apply to PhD, PsyD, and MSW programs all at the same time? I suppose it would only be a problem if they asked me where I was applying to? I know 3 programs sound crazy but I'm interested in all of them- and don't know if I'd get in to a clinical PhD program.

THANKS SO MUCH! I've read a lot of your answers to other questions: great stuff!

 

[ashejane]

Wow, you are a darling, thank you so much for all of your wonderful advice!!

My question...

I had a really rough time when I started University, After a couple of years of misery my fiance dragged me to the Uni's psych clinic and long story short I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety. THings got worse before they got better, I became agoraphobic (sp?) and battled OCD and ended up failing some courses (couldn't get out of my house to get to class) and dropped out of school. I spent a couple of years getting healthy again and am now back in school. I've basically started over, retaking any classes I did poorly in before, and I am doing very well. I've currently got a 3.7 GPA in my studies and am averaging around 1560 in practice GREs. So, is my previous performance (or lack thereof) going to trash my chances at getting into a good program? How should I deal with my earlier studies when applying? I would like to think that psyc programs would be understanding of psych problems, haha, but I really don't know.

Any advice you can give me would be hugely appreciated!!!

 

[loveoforganic]

Dr.,

I'm an undergrad, aspiring to be a psychiatrist, and thus currently pursuing the medical school route. My reasons for pursuing psychiatry over psychology include a belief it offers an overall larger amount of knowledge that can be used in patient treatment (I'm interested more in the clinical face of psychology than the research), job security, and income. However, if medical school admissions do not go my way, after however many attempts, I would pursue either a Psy.D. or Ph.D. program in psychology. I don't want to be seen as having a lack of dedication to psychology - my dedication is providing help for the mentally ill in the best form I can. How would the admission committees at these programs view me, generally?

Thank you for your time

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

This is my first post to this forum!
Anyways...

1. For two summers I have worked under a PhD at a prestigious hospital who deals with a specific disorder (for simplicity's sake, lets say Disorder X). I have learned quite a lot about said disorder but I am not interested in focusing on it when I (hopefully) get into a Clinical PhD program (although I have greatly enjoyed my summer experiences). However, because I have gained a lot of knowledge on the topic, I feel it would be to my advantage to discuss it at length in my application and interviews. Maybe I should even look for a faculty member who deals with disorder x.

If I get into a program, I know I wont want to do research in disorder x. How much should I emphasize my interest in pursuing further research with disorder x?

If you do not want to work in this area, then do NOT talk about it very much (beyond just discussing basic research experience you got) - or it may lead to a poor match.

2. It seems that most of the programs I've looked at have deadlines around Dec. 1st. Am I to understand that most clinical PhD programs don't have rolling admissions?

Correct - they do not

3. Is it ok to apply to PhD, PsyD, and MSW programs all at the same time? I suppose it would only be a problem if they asked me where I was applying to? I know 3 programs sound crazy but I'm interested in all of them- and don't know if I'd get in to a clinical PhD program.

You may want to think about your interests in some detail - these are very different types of programs.

THANKS SO MUCH! I've read a lot of your answers to other questions: great stuff!

Thanks

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Wow, you are a darling, thank you so much for all of your wonderful advice!!

My question...

I had a really rough time when I started University, After a couple of years of misery my fiance dragged me to the Uni's psych clinic and long story short I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety. THings got worse before they got better, I became agoraphobic (sp?) and battled OCD and ended up failing some courses (couldn't get out of my house to get to class) and dropped out of school. I spent a couple of years getting healthy again and am now back in school. I've basically started over, retaking any classes I did poorly in before, and I am doing very well. I've currently got a 3.7 GPA in my studies and am averaging around 1560 in practice GREs. So, is my previous performance (or lack thereof) going to trash my chances at getting into a good program? How should I deal with my earlier studies when applying? I would like to think that psyc programs would be understanding of psych problems, haha, but I really don't know.

Any advice you can give me would be hugely appreciated!!!

I think your recent academic success will be fine - I doubt that too many questions will be asked of your prior performance if you just briefly mention that for 'personal reasons' you dropped out of school. I would recommend that you do not discuss your prior diagnoses in your application materials. Not that there is anything wrong with it - just that people may think your reasons for being interested in psychology are not purely scientific.

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

Dr.,

I'm an undergrad, aspiring to be a psychiatrist, and thus currently pursuing the medical school route. My reasons for pursuing psychiatry over psychology include a belief it offers an overall larger amount of knowledge that can be used in patient treatment (I'm interested more in the clinical face of psychology than the research), job security, and income. However, if medical school admissions do not go my way, after however many attempts, I would pursue either a Psy.D. or Ph.D. program in psychology. I don't want to be seen as having a lack of dedication to psychology - my dedication is providing help for the mentally ill in the best form I can. How would the admission committees at these programs view me, generally?

Thank you for your time

You may want to get some experience in a psychology research lab to learn about the work that psychologists do.

 

[briefcase]

DrClinPsyAdvice,

Thank you again for your contributions to this forum! I have read all twenty pages of this, and I believe you have touched on my questions a little, but not quite.

I went to college originally in 2001 for two years. I took an extended "leave of absence" for personal/financial reasons (mainly because I didn’t know what I wanted to do yet). I started taking classes again at a community college, realized I want to go into Psychology, and now I am in a somewhat non-traditional program geared towards adults, at a major university.

I have good grades, and I have not taken the GRE yet, but I am a good test taker and I am sure I'll be fine. I also grew up in a house where my parents were both scientists. My mom is actually a head of a doctoral program in Org. Behavior, so the point is I've been around research forever, and I know I’ll be a good researcher. I’ve grown up around that kind of discourse and activity and I thrive in it but I am only recently beginning to accrue formal experience (so I'll only have about six months worth when I apply). Now that it has come to my attention that these things I do by second nature are exactly what I need to pursue the career I’ve chosen, I am beyond thrilled. I am just afraid my gap and years of soul-searching will look bad. I absolutely do not regret my path, but I realize that the gap may make me look unfocused.

I am also a biracial lesbian, which has informed much of my view on the world. I “pass” as hetero and white, which obviously contributes to the way I view the world and to many of my research hypotheses and ideas. So…


A) Do I need to justify dropping out of school? If so, how explicit do I get?
B) Do I mention my race and sexuality as informing my research interests? (I am interested in studying 1) psychosocial stress and its effects on cultural and ethnic minorities and 2) the possible role meditation and or spirituality may have on alleviating that stress.)

Whew! Thank you in advance for your time. It is greatly appreciated!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

DrClinPsyAdvice,

Thank you again for your contributions to this forum! I have read all twenty pages of this, and I believe you have touched on my questions a little, but not quite.

I went to college originally in 2001 for two years. I took an extended "leave of absence" for personal/financial reasons (mainly because I didn’t know what I wanted to do yet). I started taking classes again at a community college, realized I want to go into Psychology, and now I am in a somewhat non-traditional program geared towards adults, at a major university.

I have good grades, and I have not taken the GRE yet, but I am a good test taker and I am sure I'll be fine. I also grew up in a house where my parents were both scientists. My mom is actually a head of a doctoral program in Org. Behavior, so the point is I've been around research forever, and I know I’ll be a good researcher. I’ve grown up around that kind of discourse and activity and I thrive in it but I am only recently beginning to accrue formal experience (so I'll only have about six months worth when I apply). Now that it has come to my attention that these things I do by second nature are exactly what I need to pursue the career I’ve chosen, I am beyond thrilled. I am just afraid my gap and years of soul-searching will look bad. I absolutely do not regret my path, but I realize that the gap may make me look unfocused.

I am also a biracial lesbian, which has informed much of my view on the world. I “pass” as hetero and white, which obviously contributes to the way I view the world and to many of my research hypotheses and ideas. So…


A) Do I need to justify dropping out of school? If so, how explicit do I get?
B) Do I mention my race and sexuality as informing my research interests? (I am interested in studying 1) psychosocial stress and its effects on cultural and ethnic minorities and 2) the possible role meditation and or spirituality may have on alleviating that stress.)

Whew! Thank you in advance for your time. It is greatly appreciated!

I do not believe that the gap in your training will be a big issue. It is fine to mention that you took some time off for personal reasons, but beyond this simple (and vague) statement, no more detail is necessary, I believe.

As for your race and sexuality, I personally believe that applicants should disclose only what they feel is relevant to a review of their candidacy for a professional position. If you feel these factors are important to your professional identity and you cannot be evaluated adequately without sharing this information, then disclose. If it is not relevant to your professional credentials, then it is not really appropriate to disclose. Having said this, applicants rarely disclose personal information on their applications and it may be best to lean towards privacy. But this decision is completely your's to make, and you should do whatever feels most comfortable to you.

 

[StacyTXLPC]

DrClinPsyAdvice -

I've read this whole thread and unless I've missed something, this issue hasn't been addressed.

I am 34 years old, 11 years post-masters (M.S.), am a licensed professional counselor of 9 years, and an independent practitioner. I attended a masters program with an applied focus, and at this point, I have effectively no research experience. I can't even remember the topics of my papers from grad school! My undergrad GPA wasn't high enough to get me into a phd program, and to be honest, I didn't think I could hack it when I was 21.

I have begun applying to phd and psyd programs for fall 2010 (one local psyd program and the military psych phd at USUHS) and have some offers for RA opportunities; is 6 mos of RA experience likely to make a difference in my chances of acceptance? Or should I wait another year? I will take the GRE in September (my last testing was 1997) and my grad GPA is good. I know the clinical experience will aid my application to a psyd program, but I need some guidance about the phd.....

Thanks,

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

DrClinPsyAdvice -

I've read this whole thread and unless I've missed something, this issue hasn't been addressed.

I am 34 years old, 11 years post-masters (M.S.), am a licensed professional counselor of 9 years, and an independent practitioner. I attended a masters program with an applied focus, and at this point, I have effectively no research experience. I can't even remember the topics of my papers from grad school! My undergrad GPA wasn't high enough to get me into a phd program, and to be honest, I didn't think I could hack it when I was 21.

I have begun applying to phd and psyd programs for fall 2010 (one local psyd program and the military psych phd at USUHS) and have some offers for RA opportunities; is 6 mos of RA experience likely to make a difference in my chances of acceptance? Or should I wait another year? I will take the GRE in September (my last testing was 1997) and my grad GPA is good. I know the clinical experience will aid my application to a psyd program, but I need some guidance about the phd.....

Thanks,

Yes, 6 months of research experience certainly will be better than none for a PhD program. If research is not your thing, consider Counseling PhD rather than a PsyD in clinical. The latter may put you in debt quite a bit!