Advice from Prof for Applicants to PhD Programs

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Thank you for answering the many questions on these pages--including my own! :) I have two questions really, one is situational and the other is more of a strategic question of planning and combining interests to be more marketable. I've checked around this site for a while trying to get a good idea about whether or not this has necessarily been addressed. I see this concern in different forms.

Question 1) I am 33 years old. I have a BA in Psych, Spanish minor. I finished a grad program in School Psychology a few years ago, and I have two years of work experience as a School Psychologist/SP Intern. I have several years of background in research: I received an award for my undergrad research project at my undergrad university--which I tried to get published at the encouragement of my adviser, with no luck (Surprise! They all said it sounded like an undergrad paper, which it was!). I have worked in research as an RA for at least 6 years at this point. I've been on 4 different projects, and in each setting I have expressed great enthusiasm for research and gaining writing experience--my interest was always understood since I had asked openly about it and requested the opportunity--but despite having 6 years of research experience, I do not have any publications or poster presentations. (In these cases, as a grad research assistant, the opportunity was not offered. As an RA on three projects during the last 4 years, no writing has taken place, and the times I've looked at data for some sort of idea about findings I might have found to publish...well, it just didn't work out.) I have a good relationship with all my former project supervisors, and I feel they would offer good recommendations of my abilities, contributions, team work, etc...

I talked with a friend recently who is quite smart and has quite a bit of research experience. She applied to PhD programs this year and says that in order to be taken seriously as a candidate, you MUST have a publication to really get noticed. I have been offered a position with a well-known research university and have been told I would have good opportunity at getting writing experience/poster presentations/publications. I admit that after 6-8 years of actively trying to get some sort of research experience (trying to volunteer, trying to get my own work published, getting to help on a study who might be writing, moving out of state to work in research), I am tired of trying to reach the goal of getting published and starting over on what may be another low-level, low-paying grunt work position with hopes of putting out effort to help get something published --all with the goal in mind of getting into a PhD program in Clinical Psych, hopefully in a well-funded position.

My question is--To be competitive for well-funded PhD program with grant money/assistantships/tuition waivers does a candidate necessarily need writing experience or could someone like me who has several years of research experience (almost as much as it might take to get through a PhD program...) but no publication still be seen as being a serious, competitive candidate. I would like to enter a PhD program before I turn 40, and I'm really tired of working for such a low salary, while being so far away from my family. Would I be better off taking this new position at this well-known university, hoping that I get a chance to do some writing, or would I be just as well-off going home for a while and applying to programs?

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2) I have been concerned about the opportunities that might be out there for a clinical psychologist who wants to work directly with clients. I want to be able to do many things--research, practice with clients, teach, etc... Do people with interest in Clinical Psychology ever combine their degrees, such as Clinical Psychology AND MD or DO in Medicine, as PhD in Clinical Psych/Occupational Therapist, PhD in Clinical Psych/Physician Assistant degree? With such a shaky job market out there right now, it seems to make sense to widen your net in what you can do/areas you cover. Do you see people doing that? Would you recommend any sort of combined degree? If so, what sort of ideas do you have on that?

I'm realize I've practically written a book here! Thank you for any assistance or reply you might offer.

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Thank you for answering the many questions on these pages--including my own! :) I have two questions really, one is situational and the other is more of a strategic question of planning and combining interests to be more marketable. I've checked around this site for a while trying to get a good idea about whether or not this has necessarily been addressed. I see this concern in different forms.

Question 1) I am 33 years old. I have a BA in Psych, Spanish minor. I finished a grad program in School Psychology a few years ago, and I have two years of work experience as a School Psychologist/SP Intern. I have several years of background in research: I received an award for my undergrad research project at my undergrad university--which I tried to get published at the encouragement of my adviser, with no luck (Surprise! They all said it sounded like an undergrad paper, which it was!). I have worked in research as an RA for at least 6 years at this point. I've been on 4 different projects, and in each setting I have expressed great enthusiasm for research and gaining writing experience--my interest was always understood since I had asked openly about it and requested the opportunity--but despite having 6 years of research experience, I do not have any publications or poster presentations. (In these cases, as a grad research assistant, the opportunity was not offered. As an RA on three projects during the last 4 years, no writing has taken place, and the times I've looked at data for some sort of idea about findings I might have found to publish...well, it just didn't work out.) I have a good relationship with all my former project supervisors, and I feel they would offer good recommendations of my abilities, contributions, team work, etc...

I talked with a friend recently who is quite smart and has quite a bit of research experience. She applied to PhD programs this year and says that in order to be taken seriously as a candidate, you MUST have a publication to really get noticed. I have been offered a position with a well-known research university and have been told I would have good opportunity at getting writing experience/poster presentations/publications. I admit that after 6-8 years of actively trying to get some sort of research experience (trying to volunteer, trying to get my own work published, getting to help on a study who might be writing, moving out of state to work in research), I am tired of trying to reach the goal of getting published and starting over on what may be another low-level, low-paying grunt work position with hopes of putting out effort to help get something published --all with the goal in mind of getting into a PhD program in Clinical Psych, hopefully in a well-funded position.

My question is--To be competitive for well-funded PhD program with grant money/assistantships/tuition waivers does a candidate necessarily need writing experience or could someone like me who has several years of research experience (almost as much as it might take to get through a PhD program...) but no publication still be seen as being a serious, competitive candidate. I would like to enter a PhD program before I turn 40, and I'm really tired of working for such a low salary, while being so far away from my family. Would I be better off taking this new position at this well-known university, hoping that I get a chance to do some writing, or would I be just as well-off going home for a while and applying to programs?

----------------------
2) I have been concerned about the opportunities that might be out there for a clinical psychologist who wants to work directly with clients. I want to be able to do many things--research, practice with clients, teach, etc... Do people with interest in Clinical Psychology ever combine their degrees, such as Clinical Psychology AND MD or DO in Medicine, as PhD in Clinical Psych/Occupational Therapist, PhD in Clinical Psych/Physician Assistant degree? With such a shaky job market out there right now, it seems to make sense to widen your net in what you can do/areas you cover. Do you see people doing that? Would you recommend any sort of combined degree? If so, what sort of ideas do you have on that?

I'm realize I've practically written a book here! Thank you for any assistance or reply you might offer.

Your friend could not be more wrong! You absolutely do no need a publication or any presentations to be taken seriously, even at a top research-oriented PhD program. More often than not, authorship is reflective of a generous advisor and a team effort rather than an indicator of one's own research potential. It is far more important that someone can 1) identify a research area of interest; 2) demonstrate knowledge of research theories and methods; 3) be familiar with a specific literature/be able to generate hypotheses and think critically; 4) be motivated to contribute to the research literature; 5) think creatively. An undergrad student's presentation/publication record would be an extremely imperfect measure of these domains.

But so would the number of years or positions one has had as a research assistant/volunteer. Even someone with less than 1 year of experience may be able to demonstrate the above qualities.

I would strongly recommend thinking carefully about the issues above and how to get experience with scientific thinking. If it is in a lab that helps you develop your own unique research interests, and helps you develop skills and familiarity with that speciifc area - even better!

I would not use publication/presentation opportunities as a basis for job decisions. It certainly is great if you can get this experience, but it is not a critical criterion for admission to clinical PhD programs - far from it.

As for your second question, clinical psychology offers many opportunities, and as the field changes, there are plenty of possibilities for how to practice. You may want to consider Health Psychology or Pediatric Psychology within the clinical domain. Your interests in thinking about multiple aspects of health care simultaneously may be met in these sub-disciplines.
 
Thank you so much for your feedback! It's very helpful to have your insight. I admit, I am tired of toiling away, especially when I feel as if I've outgrown the job function and am clearly overqualified... It's frustrating when you've done the groundwork as much as you can and just want to get the show on the road but feel you can't because you haven't checked off the box that says "Publications/Poster Presentations." Perhaps I need to take a 2nd look at this position since I haven't even started it and feel worried that they are asking me to commit 2 years of my life to this position (They even admitted that I was quite overqualified)--I'll be 35 when I'm done there if I do stay, and I can say with certainty that I don't want to be waiting on applying to PhD programs when I'm 35.

Actually, I am very interested in Health/Pediatric Psychology and Neuropsychology--which is something I left out accidentally in my original post. That's why I was wondering about combining a PhD with another area. I'm interested in biofeedback, patient compliance, as well as Developmental Disabilities and other disorders (Autism Spectrum, ADHD). I've spent several years trying to determine if it would be practical to try to make a living as a Pediatric Psychologist, but I don't often run into Pediatric Psychologists out there--and I've made it my mission to look! I do feel very connected to that area and actually think of myself as a natural fit for that role--It's almost a part of my identity since it is a passion. So I thought, perhaps, that combining my background in School Psychology, interest in Pediatric/Health Psych, along with another health-related area to have some insurance that I'd always have a place to work no matter where I am living and nomatter what the job market is like. It seems that so many fields easily overlap each other and that it might be helpful to combine various areas to be able to do more.

Thanks again for your feedback!
 
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I made this move 5 years ago with the main goal of learning about the day-to-day practicalities of running a research project--from the bottom up. I have learned a lot, although I've not been able to do some of the things I've hoped, like writing/presenting. I felt that getting this experience was very helpful, especially since I worked with a small group of people and had many different roles--from collecting and managing data to assisting with curriculum edits to helping with our teaching trainings. I feel at this point I could tell somebody that if they admitted me into their program and hired me on whatever project they had going at the time, I could help run their project and competently do whatever needed to be done. While I might need to brush up on my stats and research design, since being an RA didn't really focus on those skills, do you feel that perhaps a Department or Professor would welcome that set of skills and abilities? From my description (which I understand is all you could go from), do I sound like a fairly competitive candidate who could do pretty well in the application process (assuming good GRE scores, LOR, and grades)? Are there any other areas I ought to be focusing on that I have neglected here?

Thank you again for your help and feedback! I am just on the verge of deciding that this year is the year I finally apply, but it helps to get some sort of feedback from someone else who is actually in the position you hold.
 
I made this move 5 years ago with the main goal of learning about the day-to-day practicalities of running a research project--from the bottom up. I have learned a lot, although I've not been able to do some of the things I've hoped, like writing/presenting. I felt that getting this experience was very helpful, especially since I worked with a small group of people and had many different roles--from collecting and managing data to assisting with curriculum edits to helping with our teaching trainings. I feel at this point I could tell somebody that if they admitted me into their program and hired me on whatever project they had going at the time, I could help run their project and competently do whatever needed to be done. While I might need to brush up on my stats and research design, since being an RA didn't really focus on those skills, do you feel that perhaps a Department or Professor would welcome that set of skills and abilities? From my description (which I understand is all you could go from), do I sound like a fairly competitive candidate who could do pretty well in the application process (assuming good GRE scores, LOR, and grades)? Are there any other areas I ought to be focusing on that I have neglected here?

Thank you again for your help and feedback! I am just on the verge of deciding that this year is the year I finally apply, but it helps to get some sort of feedback from someone else who is actually in the position you hold.

Sorry - it is so hard to tell from the kind of info here, but it sounds like you have some good experience and some focused interests. Once you get more info on these areas and make some decisions about your chosen field, you will have an even better sense of the programs that are a match and your chances of getting an interview.
 
I will be D/F repeating two courses I got Ds in during my bumpy freshman year, the only problem is as of now I will not be able to take them until Spring Semester due to my schedule for Fall being very busy(not so much in credit hours, but lab hours, honors thesis work, another project I am doing,coursework, possibly a conference and getting applications together) and I am applying this Fall.

Should I mention I will be retaking the courses on my applications and/or personal statement somehow? Or should I squeeze in atleast one of the classes during the Fall?
I want to lean towards the latter but I am afraid because I will be so busy I may not put the effort I want into them as much as I could for Spring semester where I only have one required course for my degree to go.

Thank you :)
 
DrClinPsyAdvice,

First of all, I just wanted to say thank you for all the time and effort you have put into this thread. As many before have said, your advice has been truly invaluable.

I don't think anyone has asked this before, but my apologies if you have already answered a similar question.

My primary area of interest is biological mechanisms of severe psychopathology. Accordingly, there are a few schools that I would be very keen on applying to, but the faculty member that I would most hope to work with is part of the psychiatry department (in fact some even have a PhD in psychology rather than an MD, but are still appointed through psychiatry!).
This gets a little complicated in my head because at a couple of these schools there are professors in the clinical psych program that I COULD work with. However, my interests don't match up quite as closely, and I am not sure whether I would apply to them if I knew I would have no chance of learning from the professors that are appointed through the medical school.
Essentially, my question is whether it is likely that I would have any means to working with professors in psychiatry in graduate school? Is it worth my while to contact them directly and ask if they could accept students through the clinical psych program even if they are appointed through the med school?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
 
I'm sorry to give you another one of these, as I know you receive them a lot, but could you let me know HONESTLY what you think of these stats. Do I have a chance? Any reccomendations for what I could do to improve my chances?

-GPA: 3.6 (I've had 6 semesters so far- going to be a senior in undergrad next year)

-GREs: Around 600 quant (oy I know trying to get that higher) and 650 verbal (unsure about Psych GRE yet)

-Research: 2 summer internships at a hospital in Child and Adolescent Psychiatric Division (non-credit) 1 dealing with research (recruitment, familiarizing self with protocol process, etc.) and clinical (I sat in on rounds, did play therapy, etc) and
The other internship was all research. Dealt with a specific disorder, became an IRB approved research assistant, set up study procedure, helped run participants, coded in data, worked on IRB form, recruitment, etc.

-Poster: I have my name on a poster presentation which was presented at an international conference.

-Research at Undergrad: Doing a program called work for distinction- takes a full school year 4 credits a semester. Involves a lengthy research paper, oral presentation to a board of professors, at end if completed successfully will graduate *with distinction. Also may be able to get a legitimate publication out of it. The paper, oral presenatation, and possible publication will not happen till after my applications are due though.

Let me know what you think and THANKS SO MUCH!!!
 
I will be D/F repeating two courses I got Ds in during my bumpy freshman year, the only problem is as of now I will not be able to take them until Spring Semester due to my schedule for Fall being very busy(not so much in credit hours, but lab hours, honors thesis work, another project I am doing,coursework, possibly a conference and getting applications together) and I am applying this Fall.

Should I mention I will be retaking the courses on my applications and/or personal statement somehow? Or should I squeeze in atleast one of the classes during the Fall?
I want to lean towards the latter but I am afraid because I will be so busy I may not put the effort I want into them as much as I could for Spring semester where I only have one required course for my degree to go.

Thank you :)

Probably not a good idea to highlight these in your personal statement. Many students have a tough freshman year - and few professors scrutinize the transcript. Your overall GPA will be looked at, and I wouldn't worry too much about the rest.
 
DrClinPsyAdvice,

First of all, I just wanted to say thank you for all the time and effort you have put into this thread. As many before have said, your advice has been truly invaluable.

I don't think anyone has asked this before, but my apologies if you have already answered a similar question.

My primary area of interest is biological mechanisms of severe psychopathology. Accordingly, there are a few schools that I would be very keen on applying to, but the faculty member that I would most hope to work with is part of the psychiatry department (in fact some even have a PhD in psychology rather than an MD, but are still appointed through psychiatry!).
This gets a little complicated in my head because at a couple of these schools there are professors in the clinical psych program that I COULD work with. However, my interests don't match up quite as closely, and I am not sure whether I would apply to them if I knew I would have no chance of learning from the professors that are appointed through the medical school.
Essentially, my question is whether it is likely that I would have any means to working with professors in psychiatry in graduate school? Is it worth my while to contact them directly and ask if they could accept students through the clinical psych program even if they are appointed through the med school?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

This varies program to program. Some psychologists with a primary appointment at the med school play a very active role on the training faculty in a Ph.D. program, and some do not. The clinical program website may list those faculty that they consider part of their core faculty or training faculty. That's a good place to start. If they are simply at the same school (but not formally part of the training faculty of the program), then they probably will not be a part of the admissions process at all.
 
I'm sorry to give you another one of these, as I know you receive them a lot, but could you let me know HONESTLY what you think of these stats. Do I have a chance? Any reccomendations for what I could do to improve my chances?

-GPA: 3.6 (I've had 6 semesters so far- going to be a senior in undergrad next year)

-GREs: Around 600 quant (oy I know trying to get that higher) and 650 verbal (unsure about Psych GRE yet)

-Research: 2 summer internships at a hospital in Child and Adolescent Psychiatric Division (non-credit) 1 dealing with research (recruitment, familiarizing self with protocol process, etc.) and clinical (I sat in on rounds, did play therapy, etc) and
The other internship was all research. Dealt with a specific disorder, became an IRB approved research assistant, set up study procedure, helped run participants, coded in data, worked on IRB form, recruitment, etc.

-Poster: I have my name on a poster presentation which was presented at an international conference.

-Research at Undergrad: Doing a program called work for distinction- takes a full school year 4 credits a semester. Involves a lengthy research paper, oral presentation to a board of professors, at end if completed successfully will graduate *with distinction. Also may be able to get a legitimate publication out of it. The paper, oral presenatation, and possible publication will not happen till after my applications are due though.

Let me know what you think and THANKS SO MUCH!!!


I'm not really good with these types of questions. A snapshot evaluation of your credentials gives me much less info than someone would have of your application, and more importantly, this all will depend on the school and faculty mentor you apply to.

Having said this, I can tell you that as compared to the average successful applicant, you may have a tad less research experience and somewhat lower GREs than others.
 
DrClinPsyAdvice,

I'm a transfer student and want to know if the GPA from community college is computed into the 'overall' GPA, or only the GPA from the university. Or both?

Thanks
 
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Alansda, your overall GPA does include your first two years at community college. Graduate programs look at 3 GPA's, your overall GPA which includes all 4 years, your last 2 years GPA, and your psychology GPA. Pick up Graduate Study in Psychology by the APA if you want to know what a particular program puts most weight in.

Also I'm not in any way trying to butt in or cutt off Drclinpsyadvice, Im just fairly sure this was already addressed and I went ahead and answered it for the convenience of both alansda and Drclin. Again, I can't tell you how much I appreciate what your doing and apologize if I was out of line.

Now for my question, I checked and I believe this hasn't been discussed yet. I too, like alansda, will be transferring to a fairly prestigious undergraduate school from a community college. My concern comes in three parts: firstly, Im very worried that I lost two years of opportunity to do research, is it typical for a student at a 4 year university to do a lot of research in his first two years? Secondly, would it look bad on my application if I spent a third year(for a total of 5) at my undergrad university in order to gain sufficient research experience? And lastly, does attending a CC look bad to acceptance committees? I know this sounds naive, but I'm scared that if I'm being contemplated for the last interview and its one other student and I, the CC could be the deal breaker.

Your a small beacon of light to all lost, scared and confused psychology students.
Best,
Justin
 
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I didn't really get to do research until junior year because back then they wanted us to take experimental psych first, so I wouldn't say it's a problem.
 
DrClinPsyAdvice,

I recently met with my thesis advisor and she recommended that I retake the GRE in order to raise my verbal score to a 600. I got a 570v, 770q (1340 total). While my verbal score is not above a 600, I scored into the 89th percentile.

Do admissions committees consider GRE score percentiles?

Thank you so much for your help. Your students are lucky to have such a wonderful mentor and guide.
 
Hello Professor
Thank you so much for all the input .I am really grateful to you for all insightyou are providing.I being international student I got all my
answers here.I am Dentist back in India.But Iam more interested in Counselling psycology .I have come to USA last year as a dependent on my husband .I have started working as Dental assistant from past 6 months.I am preparing for my toefle and gre [genral]and gre [subject ] .Sir it will be more helpful if you let me know how should I improve my credentials to be a potential candidate for admission? I have 3.5 GPA. I really want to do Ph.d in Counselling Psycology. Thank you .
 
Hi Prof, thanks so much for taking time to help us applicants out.

I will be reapplying this fall, for the third time. While my numbers were strong in the past, I think what ultimately went wrong was that my research interests weren't well defined, and I interview poorly.

I graduated undergrad 5 years ago, from a well regarded liberal arts school, with a 3.76 overall GPA, 3.85 in psych. I have a masters degree in developmental psych (gpa 3.82), which I received one year after graduating college.

I retook the GRE last time I applied, which was 3 years ago, and received a 1450 (do I need to take it again to update scores? scores are good for 5 years, but I don't want the admissions committee thinking I'm not putting enough effort into my application).

Since receiving my MA, I worked as a research assistant in a substance abuse clinic for two years, where I also co-facilitated a behavioral change group. I also got my name on a paper in a well regarded journal in the substance abuse field, as well as 4 posters.

After two years of that, and being rejected to grad school again, I changed jobs and became a research coordinator in a neurology clinic. I had pretty much given up on the idea of clinical psych, and was actually entertaining the idea of med school, when I had an "aha moment" and found clinical neuropsych calling my name.

While in college, I was the sole author of a book chapter in a psychology text, and I am also first author on a paper in another well regarded substance abuse journal. In addition have a published article in a science magazine (one of two authors), and was an invited panel member at a regional psych conference.

I've now been researching clinical programs with a neuropsych track, and I ultimately want to pursue a research career in a medical setting, possibly emphasizing children (tying in my developmental masters).

My questions are:

1. While I have a background in substance abuse, it is not my area of interest. Will I seem unfocused? I never gave any thought to neuropsych until my current job, and I plan on addressing this in my statement.

2. My current position has me working with neurologists, NOT psychologists (or even psychiatrists). Will this be a detriment? However, I am at an institution where research is heavily emphasized, and several of my projects have a neuropsych component. My research interests have evolved from the pecialty that I work in, as I want to study the neuropsychological components of this neurological disorder (more specific of course, but don't want to get into details here) and I have identified several POIs that match up.


3. Can I use my current neurologist supervisors as letters of recommendation? I plan on using one psych professor from undergrad who can attest for my academic ability as well as research as I have done a lot of work with her over the years. I have no contacts from my masters program. I guess I could get a reference from my previous position from a psychologist too, but would also prefer to use a current one.


Thank you in advance for any advice, and thanks for reading this 'novel' that has spouted out!
 
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions!!

I have 2 questions:

1. If we reference specific research articles in our PS, should we cite and include references in APA format?

2. How do competitive research-oriented Clinical Psych programs view second language skills? Is bilingualism a plus?

Thanks again!
 
21 pages later and I am positive that these questions have not been addressed.

I have an M.S. in Psychology (general, but I made it clinically focused), graduated from my masters program in 2002, and have been worked as a Licensed Psychological Associate in North Carolina since then. I'm considering going back to school for my Ph.D. (my hubris in applying only to first-tier programs straight out of bachelor's was ill-thought), if I can figure out how to swing the "pay-cut." I'm geographically limited to Duke, UNC-Ch, and NC State (I know, I know...), so I realize that this may be a multi-year apply-apply-apply process regardless of my credentials (originally GREs were 2290 total, 800 analytical, 790 quant, 700 verbal but they are 10 years old at this point so I'm assuming I'll have to retake; bachelor's GPA of 3.825 with about a 3.95 psych, master's GPA of 4.0, approximately 2 years worth of research experience in various settings).

Several questions:

1) I have an M.S. rather than an M.A. I have always considered the "S" to be looked at as more science/research focused than the "A". Would you tend to look at it that way as well?

2) I wrote a thesis-length paper (~120 pages, including references) for my bachelor's degree, although we did not formally have a thesis program for the bachelor's degree. It was definitely a "psychology" paper, and incorporated both qualitative and quantitative research. I also incorporated it into two poster presentations, one at the bachelor's level (EPA 2000), and one at the master's level (SEPA 2001). Can I call this a bachelor's thesis?

3) I'm going to run into the "reference issue" since I've been out of school for so long. Here are my "choices" for references:

-Counseling Ph.D. work colleague to whom I am very close and have worked with for two years. Very familiar with my clinical abilities and my pro-research personality traits (organized, attentive to detail, methodical, etc.) but zero first-hand ability to comment on my actual ability to research/research skills

-My M.S. Major professor - Clinical Ph.D. Loves me to death, worked with me on *some* research, although he abandoned the research before we completed the project. I was also his G.A. He was on my oral comps committee. Wrote a rec for me for licensure. Only problem is he retired 4 or 5 years ago and may be hard to track down.

-My research partner professor from my M.S. program - Cognitive Ph.D. We are published together (3 authors, I am second) and also have a poster presentation on the same topic. Also loves me, also on my oral comps committee. Haven't been in touch with him for some years though. Wrote a rec for me for licensure.

-The third member of my oral comps committee. Social Psych Ph.D. Liked me a lot. Only had one class with her, and didn't do any research with her She was only there for the second year of my masters. Perks: She was the DCT. Wrote a rec for me for licensure.

- My current boss. M.A. in Clinical Psychology. Not licensed, but grandfathered in (he predates licensure laws). He's been practicing for almost 40 years. Likes me a lot. No knowledge/awareness of my research skills, but same awareness of "research personality" as my other co-worker

- Former co-worker, and one-time supervisor. Clinical Ph.D. Worked with him for just under two years, and he was my supervisor for about 6 months. We still keep in touch, and I may be working with him again on a side project he is working on. We share similar research and clinical interests (treating severe character pathology, particularly in inmates, which is who we work with). We have not directly done any research together, so same limitations as the above co-workers. Interesting quirk: I won't say which, but his wife is a faculty member at one of the programs for which I would be applying.

- Former boss. Fairly famous. Clinical Ph.D. I was a paid research assistant for him for about 20 months (healthy psychology research). This was more of a lab grunt with some minimal interaction with the actual data. Cons: he was not my direct supervisor and he has so many RAs that it would be pushing it for him to remember me specifically when it's been 7 years since I worked for him.

- Former internship director. PsyD. Purely clinical internship. Very encouraging/supportive. Wrote a rec for me when I got licensed. Cons: No knowledge of my research stuff, it's been 7 years, and she was military so I'm not even sure how to find her any more.

So, assuming I'm limited to 3 or 4 recs, who should I go for?

4) Am I correct in assuming that my MS GPA will carry somewhat more weight than my bachelor GPA? Both are good, but obviously my M.S. GPA is better.

5) Should I include somewhere in my applications my scores on the national licensure exam? I scored well above the PhD cutoff, which to me is indicative of ability to function at the "higher" PhD level. If I should include it, in what context?

6) Does the fact that I was the "valedictorian" (not really, since M.S. programs don't really have valedictorians) of my M.S. class help me at all? If so, how should I reference this? Class size was about 14 or 15, if I recall.

7) I was fully funded by the institutions on an academic merit basis, for both my undergrad and master's degree. Should I mention this, is it worth mention, and if so, how should I go about doing so without sounding like a pompous ass?

I think that's all I can come up with for now...
 
DrClinPsyAdvice,

I'm a transfer student and want to know if the GPA from community college is computed into the 'overall' GPA, or only the GPA from the university. Or both?

Thanks

hmmm...good question. i think i've seen people report it both ways on their CV to be clear
 
Alansda, your overall GPA does include your first two years at community college. Graduate programs look at 3 GPA's, your overall GPA which includes all 4 years, your last 2 years GPA, and your psychology GPA. Pick up Graduate Study in Psychology by the APA if you want to know what a particular program puts most weight in.

Also I'm not in any way trying to butt in or cutt off Drclinpsyadvice, Im just fairly sure this was already addressed and I went ahead and answered it for the convenience of both alansda and Drclin. Again, I can't tell you how much I appreciate what your doing and apologize if I was out of line.

Now for my question, I checked and I believe this hasn't been discussed yet. I too, like alansda, will be transferring to a fairly prestigious undergraduate school from a community college. My concern comes in three parts: firstly, Im very worried that I lost two years of opportunity to do research, is it typical for a student at a 4 year university to do a lot of research in his first two years?

no, you're not behind at all

Secondly, would it look bad on my application if I spent a third year(for a total of 5) at my undergrad university in order to gain sufficient research experience?

that would be atypical. you may want to consider a full-time RA position after graduation instead

And lastly, does attending a CC look bad to acceptance committees? I know this sounds naive, but I'm scared that if I'm being contemplated for the last interview and its one other student and I, the CC could be the deal breaker.

i doubt it. ultimately, you are accepted to and graduating from your new university, and that is what matters

Your a small beacon of light to all lost, scared and confused psychology students.
Best,
Justin

thanks
 
DrClinPsyAdvice,

I recently met with my thesis advisor and she recommended that I retake the GRE in order to raise my verbal score to a 600. I got a 570v, 770q (1340 total). While my verbal score is not above a 600, I scored into the 89th percentile.

Do admissions committees consider GRE score percentiles?

Thank you so much for your help. Your students are lucky to have such a wonderful mentor and guide.

they do look at percentiles, and your's is good. but depending on where you want to apply, i probably would give the same advice
 
Hello Professor
Thank you so much for all the input .I am really grateful to you for all insightyou are providing.I being international student I got all my
answers here.I am Dentist back in India.But Iam more interested in Counselling psycology .I have come to USA last year as a dependent on my husband .I have started working as Dental assistant from past 6 months.I am preparing for my toefle and gre [genral]and gre [subject ] .Sir it will be more helpful if you let me know how should I improve my credentials to be a potential candidate for admission? I have 3.5 GPA. I really want to do Ph.d in Counselling Psycology. Thank you .

for counseling psychology, you may want to get some research or clinical interest specific to psych, and you will want to be sure that your undergrad degree demonstrates a good foundation in psychology. If psych was not your major, and you can afford to do so, you may want to take some grad level psych classes somewhere to demonstrate that you have the ability to succeed in this field.
 
Hello,

I have a question regarding previous research experience. I am hoping to apply to clinical psych phd programs this next application round (to "balanced programs") with an interest in development psychopathology (I have a more specific topic in mind and a list of research matches at different schools). However, none of my previous research experiences (two undergraduate theses - one on language acquisition and one in health psych, as well as 2 years working on alzheimer's association psychosocial research project) have anything to do with my research interest.

I do have volunteer experience working with my population of interest, but from everything that I have read, clinical experience does not cut it...

I guess my question for you (and anyone else willing to answer) is, does the topic of previous research matter or is simply having it enough (meaningful experience that is- i have done more than simply enter data in all projects)?

Thanks in advance...and I would like to echo the previous statements of thanks, this thread has been really helpful!

Great question! Some advisors are happy to have someone with general research experience, but a blank slate in their chosen area of interest. Others like someone with prior expertise in their chosen research area. Of course, if you can get some exposure to developmental psychopathology work before you apply, it would be useful. but you may be OK without it - it really depends on the advisor.
 
Hi Prof, thanks so much for taking time to help us applicants out.

I will be reapplying this fall, for the third time. While my numbers were strong in the past, I think what ultimately went wrong was that my research interests weren't well defined, and I interview poorly.

I graduated undergrad 5 years ago, from a well regarded liberal arts school, with a 3.76 overall GPA, 3.85 in psych. I have a masters degree in developmental psych (gpa 3.82), which I received one year after graduating college.

I retook the GRE last time I applied, which was 3 years ago, and received a 1450 (do I need to take it again to update scores? scores are good for 5 years, but I don't want the admissions committee thinking I'm not putting enough effort into my application).

Since receiving my MA, I worked as a research assistant in a substance abuse clinic for two years, where I also co-facilitated a behavioral change group. I also got my name on a paper in a well regarded journal in the substance abuse field, as well as 4 posters.

After two years of that, and being rejected to grad school again, I changed jobs and became a research coordinator in a neurology clinic. I had pretty much given up on the idea of clinical psych, and was actually entertaining the idea of med school, when I had an "aha moment" and found clinical neuropsych calling my name.

While in college, I was the sole author of a book chapter in a psychology text, and I am also first author on a paper in another well regarded substance abuse journal. In addition have a published article in a science magazine (one of two authors), and was an invited panel member at a regional psych conference.

I've now been researching clinical programs with a neuropsych track, and I ultimately want to pursue a research career in a medical setting, possibly emphasizing children (tying in my developmental masters).

My questions are:

1. While I have a background in substance abuse, it is not my area of interest. Will I seem unfocused? I never gave any thought to neuropsych until my current job, and I plan on addressing this in my statement.

You have very strong credentials, and your history of evolving interests makes good sense. I suspect this will be fine, especially if you address the development of your career goals in your statement, as you say.

2. My current position has me working with neurologists, NOT psychologists (or even psychiatrists). Will this be a detriment? However, I am at an institution where research is heavily emphasized, and several of my projects have a neuropsych component. My research interests have evolved from the pecialty that I work in, as I want to study the neuropsychological components of this neurological disorder (more specific of course, but don't want to get into details here) and I have identified several POIs that match up.

That will be tricky. You'll want to get reference letters from psychologists. If you can, then I suspect you'll be OK.


3. Can I use my current neurologist supervisors as letters of recommendation? I plan on using one psych professor from undergrad who can attest for my academic ability as well as research as I have done a lot of work with her over the years. I have no contacts from my masters program. I guess I could get a reference from my previous position from a psychologist too, but would also prefer to use a current one.

see above


Thank you in advance for any advice, and thanks for reading this 'novel' that has spouted out!

thanks
 
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions!!

I have 2 questions:

1. If we reference specific research articles in our PS, should we cite and include references in APA format?

cite them in apa format - yes.
include a reference section to your essay? maybe not needed

2. How do competitive research-oriented Clinical Psych programs view second language skills? Is bilingualism a plus?

sometimes. not going to get you in, but it can be useful if you are working with a non-English population

Thanks again!

.
 
21 pages later and I am positive that these questions have not been addressed.

I have an M.S. in Psychology (general, but I made it clinically focused), graduated from my masters program in 2002, and have been worked as a Licensed Psychological Associate in North Carolina since then. I'm considering going back to school for my Ph.D. (my hubris in applying only to first-tier programs straight out of bachelor's was ill-thought), if I can figure out how to swing the "pay-cut." I'm geographically limited to Duke, UNC-Ch, and NC State (I know, I know...), so I realize that this may be a multi-year apply-apply-apply process regardless of my credentials (originally GREs were 2290 total, 800 analytical, 790 quant, 700 verbal but they are 10 years old at this point so I'm assuming I'll have to retake; bachelor's GPA of 3.825 with about a 3.95 psych, master's GPA of 4.0, approximately 2 years worth of research experience in various settings).

Several questions:

1) I have an M.S. rather than an M.A. I have always considered the "S" to be looked at as more science/research focused than the "A". Would you tend to look at it that way as well?
yes

2) I wrote a thesis-length paper (~120 pages, including references) for my bachelor's degree, although we did not formally have a thesis program for the bachelor's degree. It was definitely a "psychology" paper, and incorporated both qualitative and quantitative research. I also incorporated it into two poster presentations, one at the bachelor's level (EPA 2000), and one at the master's level (SEPA 2001). Can I call this a bachelor's thesis?
not sure I have heard people talk about a BA thesis before. may not be necessary to refer to it that way


3) I'm going to run into the "reference issue" since I've been out of school for so long. Here are my "choices" for references:

-Counseling Ph.D. work colleague to whom I am very close and have worked with for two years. Very familiar with my clinical abilities and my pro-research personality traits (organized, attentive to detail, methodical, etc.) but zero first-hand ability to comment on my actual ability to research/research skills
perhaps no


-My M.S. Major professor - Clinical Ph.D. Loves me to death, worked with me on *some* research, although he abandoned the research before we completed the project. I was also his G.A. He was on my oral comps committee. Wrote a rec for me for licensure. Only problem is he retired 4 or 5 years ago and may be hard to track down.
definitely yes


-My research partner professor from my M.S. program - Cognitive Ph.D. We are published together (3 authors, I am second) and also have a poster presentation on the same topic. Also loves me, also on my oral comps committee. Haven't been in touch with him for some years though. Wrote a rec for me for licensure.
sounds good

-The third member of my oral comps committee. Social Psych Ph.D. Liked me a lot. Only had one class with her, and didn't do any research with her She was only there for the second year of my masters. Perks: She was the DCT. Wrote a rec for me for licensure.
maybe - not essential

- My current boss. M.A. in Clinical Psychology. Not licensed, but grandfathered in (he predates licensure laws). He's been practicing for almost 40 years. Likes me a lot. No knowledge/awareness of my research skills, but same awareness of "research personality" as my other co-worker
maybe - not essential


- Former co-worker, and one-time supervisor. Clinical Ph.D. Worked with him for just under two years, and he was my supervisor for about 6 months. We still keep in touch, and I may be working with him again on a side project he is working on. We share similar research and clinical interests (treating severe character pathology, particularly in inmates, which is who we work with). We have not directly done any research together, so same limitations as the above co-workers. Interesting quirk: I won't say which, but his wife is a faculty member at one of the programs for which I would be applying.
maybe - not essential


- Former boss. Fairly famous. Clinical Ph.D. I was a paid research assistant for him for about 20 months (healthy psychology research). This was more of a lab grunt with some minimal interaction with the actual data. Cons: he was not my direct supervisor and he has so many RAs that it would be pushing it for him to remember me specifically when it's been 7 years since I worked for him.
not sold on this one

- Former internship director. PsyD. Purely clinical internship. Very encouraging/supportive. Wrote a rec for me when I got licensed. Cons: No knowledge of my research stuff, it's been 7 years, and she was military so I'm not even sure how to find her any more.
maybe not


So, assuming I'm limited to 3 or 4 recs, who should I go for?

4) Am I correct in assuming that my MS GPA will carry somewhat more weight than my bachelor GPA? Both are good, but obviously my M.S. GPA is better.

both are equally important, i think

5) Should I include somewhere in my applications my scores on the national licensure exam? I scored well above the PhD cutoff, which to me is indicative of ability to function at the "higher" PhD level. If I should include it, in what context?

you can, maybe on your CV


6) Does the fact that I was the "valedictorian" (not really, since M.S. programs don't really have valedictorians) of my M.S. class help me at all? If so, how should I reference this? Class size was about 14 or 15, if I recall.

no


7) I was fully funded by the institutions on an academic merit basis, for both my undergrad and master's degree. Should I mention this, is it worth mention, and if so, how should I go about doing so without sounding like a pompous ass?

sure, list honors on your CV

I think that's all I can come up with for now...

.
 
Dear Dr. ClinPsyAdvice,

First of all, thank you for taking so much time out of your day to answer all of these questions, it is very much appreciated! I have a few questions. I lack much research experience, as I have only done one semester of it during my undergrad and it was with a school psychologist (a field I thought I wanted to pursue at the time). Since I graduated, I have been working at a children's psychiatric hospital providing direct care and therapy for kids. My question is, does my work experience weigh any significant ammount? Is my lack of research experience going to hurt my application? Also, I have been out of school for several years, and I was not much the outspoken, go get it type during my undergrad (though I had good grades). Therefore, I believe I may only have 1 or 2 academic letters of recomendation. I am very close to a MD Psychiatrist and a PhD Clinical Psychologist at the children's hospital for which I am employed. Would these letters be frowned upon and if so, does that pretty much put my application out of the running? Also, (one more...sorry!) I have considered applying to PsyD programs as well, although I would prefer not due to the financial setbacks. Can the PsyD programs be a route to success in psychology? Are those degrees looked at as inferior to PhD's? Again, thank you so so much for your time.
 
Dear Dr. ClinPsyAdvice,

First of all, thank you for taking so much time out of your day to answer all of these questions, it is very much appreciated! I have a few questions. I lack much research experience, as I have only done one semester of it during my undergrad and it was with a school psychologist (a field I thought I wanted to pursue at the time). Since I graduated, I have been working at a children's psychiatric hospital providing direct care and therapy for kids. My question is, does my work experience weigh any significant ammount? Is my lack of research experience going to hurt my application? Also, I have been out of school for several years, and I was not much the outspoken, go get it type during my undergrad (though I had good grades). Therefore, I believe I may only have 1 or 2 academic letters of recomendation. I am very close to a MD Psychiatrist and a PhD Clinical Psychologist at the children's hospital for which I am employed. Would these letters be frowned upon and if so, does that pretty much put my application out of the running? Also, (one more...sorry!) I have considered applying to PsyD programs as well, although I would prefer not due to the financial setbacks. Can the PsyD programs be a route to success in psychology? Are those degrees looked at as inferior to PhD's? Again, thank you so so much for your time.

I'm afraid that for clinical Ph.D. programs, the work experience you mention will not be very helpful, and your lack of research experience will further reduce the attractiveness of your application. Your letters of recommendation will need to address your ability to conduct research - so you will need referees that can speak directly to this.

If working as a practitioner is your interest, you may want to consider counseling psychology. The research requirements are less, and there are many excellent Ph.D. programs.

Unfortunately, many PsyD programs have a poor student to faculty ratio, inadequate supervision, and are based at for-profit "universities" that will leave you grossly in debt. Students many from these programs consistently score worse on the national licensing exam, and many fail. There are some great PsyD programs out there, but they are few, and consequently, this is indeed seen as a 'lesser' degree.
 
Hello Dr. ClinPsyAdvice & forum,

Whew! I am new here and I just read the whole thread. It was fascinating and I learned a lot. Thank you all for sharing.

Dr. ClinPsyAdvice, your students and colleagues are lucky to have such a giving individual in their midst. My ideal graduate environment would be one that has such faculty.

My question:

I am 34, having graduated from a prestigious undergraduate institution more than a decade ago. I have a great GRE score- 770 Q, 760 verbal- and research experience (I have been volunteering for the last few years as I need to work full time).

My cumulative GPA is around 3.3. The first four years of college I received mostly As , a few Bs and 1 C, in Computer Science (my major was Cognitive Science).

I did one additional semester as I had 2 classes left to finish my major ( I had studied abroad and taken theatre classes for fun and this put me a little behind). Without going into detail, this semester I developed clinical depression and as a consequence, in my 2 classes that semester, I received a C and an F!

I have since recovered and taken plenty of time to make sure I was ready for high level graduate study. I have recently taken classes in Biology including Neurobiology at the upper division level, Statistics and many Psychology courses. I have earned all As. I retook the class I received an F in and received an A.

In a personal statement, I wouldn't mention my semester of awfulness except that it A. Sticks out remarkably from the rest of my transcript, B. drags my GPA down significantly and C. IT IS AN F! in a 5th year when I only took 2 classes!

I want to apply to competitive programs (research focused) and I believe in all other areas I am a viable candidate. But how do I explain the F?

I really really do not want to resort to talking about my mental health because it is in the past and my primary research interest is depression but I have legitimate (non personal)reasons for studying it. I do believe my depression gave me an insight into this population I could not have received any other way. But all the application advice I have received is to not mention my personal experience.


Please help!

Thank you very much for this opportunity to ask.


The F won't stand out as much as you think. Few folks will scrutinize your transcript - most will just look at the overall GPA. Nevertheless, it would be perfectly fine to note that 'personal circumstances' led you to take some time off and return with stellar grades. But I would recommend that you don't call too much attention to it. The rest of your application sounds quite good and you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot.
 
The F won't stand out as much as you think. Few folks will scrutinize your transcript - most will just look at the overall GPA. Nevertheless, it would be perfectly fine to note that 'personal circumstances' led you to take some time off and return with stellar grades. But I would recommend that you don't call too much attention to it. The rest of your application sounds quite good and you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot.

Sounds good. Many Thanks!
 
There are some great PsyD programs out there, but they are few, and consequently, this is indeed seen as a 'lesser' degree.

With all due respect, I don't agree that the Psyd is seen as a lesser degree. The public often is unaware of the difference, and those in the know generally would not consider a graduate of Baylor or Rutgers with a Psyd as inferior.

I apologize for hijacking the thread, but I have to stick up for the Vail Model. I believe the problem is not the training model itself, but how it's implemented. Some professional schools, unfortunately, don't live up to the Vail creators' intent.
 
Dr. ClinPsyAdvice et al:

My primary research interest is the biological and psychological etiology of depression. I am especially interested in gene x environment interactions, brain imaging, and the effects of stress hormones. Questions that intrigue me: Is depression a cluster of syndromes? Why are there gender differences in depression? What is the exact action of effective anti-depressants? I am also interested in the development of depression in adolescents and younger girls.


I am beginning to correspond with POIs. How does the above sound? Is it too broad? Any feedback is appreciated.


Best,
Hamster

sounds good!
 
Dr. ClinPsyAdvice and forum members,

I know you must have addressed this somewhat before but exactly how important is the Psych subject GRE exam. The programs I am interested in so far either do not require it, recommend it or strongly recommend it. I do decent on standardized testing but I was not a psych major and have been out of undergrad for 12 years now. So studying would be necessary.

I currently work full time, take classes at night and have 2 volunteer research gigs so if I can rule out the subject test I would be happy.

If it matters I have a strong general GRE- 1530- but no idea how I would do on the subject test. I took a practice test and got 650. I am interested in some pretty competitive universities because they have POIs whose research interests overlap with my own. So if the subject test will help, I will study for and take it.

Thanks

Your Psych GRE score won't get you into grad school, nor will it keep you out. 650 is a good score.
 
Your Psych GRE score won't get you into grad school, nor will it keep you out. 650 is a good score.

Wonderful. Thanks for all your help! It is so so appreciated.

Do you think it is even worth taking the exam then?

Also, I am curious. This thread has been going on for 4 years or so now. Have you ever met a student interviewing at your school and thought hmm their story sounds familiar and then realized they might be someone on this forum? !
 
Wonderful. Thanks for all your help! It is so so appreciated.

Do you think it is even worth taking the exam then?

Also, I am curious. This thread has been going on for 4 years or so now. Have you ever met a student interviewing at your school and thought hmm their story sounds familiar and then realized they might be someone on this forum? !

Yes, some schools require that you take it - so if the places you are applying to want the exam, you will need to take it.
 
How important is at that your writing sample is exactly in line with your research interests?

I have two possibilities in mind, and the one that I like better from a writing standpoint is further away from my specific research interests, though both projects are mentioned in my SOP (as in, "my work [the sample I think is better written] in research area A helped me develop my interests in broad topic X, which were further refined as I became involved in research area B [my area of research focus]")

Would submitting work from Area A raise eyebrows? I've received good feedback on both samples, if that matters.

Thanks!
 
Also, is there any harm in having a "short-term" LOR writer? My co-investigator on a project (I'm the PI) has offered to write me a strong LOR, but we've only been working together since May. Would this be a potential problem?

Thanks again!
 
How important is at that your writing sample is exactly in line with your research interests?

I have two possibilities in mind, and the one that I like better from a writing standpoint is further away from my specific research interests, though both projects are mentioned in my SOP (as in, "my work [the sample I think is better written] in research area A helped me develop my interests in broad topic X, which were further refined as I became involved in research area B [my area of research focus]")

Would submitting work from Area A raise eyebrows? I've received good feedback on both samples, if that matters.

Thanks!

I doubt it is that important that your writing sample be on the same topic as your research interest.
 
Also, is there any harm in having a "short-term" LOR writer? My co-investigator on a project (I'm the PI) has offered to write me a strong LOR, but we've only been working together since May. Would this be a potential problem?

Thanks again!

no problem!
 
Kind of a random question, but does the ability to pay/take out loans have any affect on admission- I can't see the department itself looking this up, but does the university as a whole have any say? (Hypothetically speaking, a student still paying back other loans, maybe poor credit, would the university enroll this student?)
 
If working as a practitioner is your interest, you may want to consider counseling psychology. The research requirements are less, and there are many excellent Ph.D. programs.

Totally disagree. I think this is a bad misunderstanding of Counseling Psychology. There may be more balanced programs (just as there are balanced clinical psych programs), but the idea that Counseling psych = for practitioners is as bad as the idea that PsyD = for practitioners. A practice-focused applicant who applies to Counseling Psych at, say, UF, Maryland, Missouri-Columbia, or Iowa will be miserable. Someone without strong research experience won't get into those programs, either.
 
Kind of a random question, but does the ability to pay/take out loans have any affect on admission- I can't see the department itself looking this up, but does the university as a whole have any say? (Hypothetically speaking, a student still paying back other loans, maybe poor credit, would the university enroll this student?)

This should not affect admission at all.
 
Hi Dr!

I'm in a Clinical PhD program, and my question is--what should a trainee's expectations be regarding supervisin and didactic components of a clinical externship? We go out and find out own placements, and there seems to be such diversity in what programs offer.

Thanks!
 
Hi Dr!

I'm in a Clinical PhD program, and my question is--what should a trainee's expectations be regarding supervisin and didactic components of a clinical externship? We go out and find out own placements, and there seems to be such diversity in what programs offer.

Thanks!

There is indeed a very large range for practicum training. Some pracs have hour-for-hour supervision, videotape review, live supervision, or simply supervision meetings. Didactics also can range - from none to several hours/week.
 
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