Advice needed! Ex-pharmacy student with low GPA

[ziizi]

First of all, this post is kinda long, but please bear with me because I really need advice at the moment. I do know I have messed up a lot throughout school so please refrain from negative comments if you are not going to give me real advice. I have thought about going down this path many times and I am determined to do it no matter what.

So I am a student who decided to switch from 3.5 years in Pharmacy school (out of 6 years) to Pre-med after deciding that Pharmacy is not what I want to do. Now, I have decided not to finish Pharmacy school due to my very low GPA and many personal issues. I wanted to have a brand new start and actually focusing on getting good grades because I never cared about my grades in Pharmacy school. Anyways, I'll try to explain this as easily as possible (plz bear with me)

Current situation:

Started new major in Fall 2017

1. cGPA: 2.947 sGPA: 2.71
   

• I had 4 D's in science courses (please don't comment on how are you going to survive in Med school if you got so many D's.. I simply was immature and did not try)
  
  
• I'm already sitting on 132 credits from Pharmacy school so you know it's going to be tough to raise my GPA
  
  
• I will most likely to be receiving all A's this semester (2.947 --> 3.067)
  
  
• If I get all A's in my next two semesters, I could bring it up to 3.2+

1. Major: Psychology Minor: Biology

• I already finished my Minor
  
  
• I chose Psychology because I wanted to major in something that I was actually interested
  
  
• I could technically finish my major in two semesters (11 courses left lol)
  

1. Extracurriculars
   

• Research:
  
  • Currently a student researcher in a nonschool affiliated research lab (One publication)
    
    
  • Had a short volunteer research in Pharmaceutics lab over the summer after freshman year (2 months)
    
• Doctor shadowing:
  
  • Shadowed an Internal medicine fellow and a Pulmonologist (30+ hours)
    
• Volunteer:
  
  • Summer medical volunteer in South Korea (2 months)
    
    
  • School fundraisers
    
    
  • Numerous church volunteering
    
• School experiences:
  
  • Resident Assistant (2.5 years)
    
    
  • Class President of 220 students
    
    
  • Two e-board positions in Pharmacy organizations
    
    
  • Currently starting a nationally recognized pre-med organization at my school
    

This is pretty much everything I can remember.

So my original plan was to re-take Orgo 1&2 (C in both) and take couple science courses before I graduate. This would've taken 4 semesters. However, my academic advisor who sits on the admission committee for my in-state said that he will not let me do that because he doesn't want me to take extra time taking courses irrelevant to my major. Plus, he said med schools will consider it as a sign of immaturity if I don't graduate asap. He basically said he will force me to graduate soon because that's I should be doing. He said I should just finish my Major requirements first and then take science courses as a non-matriculate student OR do Master's/ Post-Bacc program. Now, I don't know what to do because my Undergrad sGPA will still be very low when I apply to Med schools regardless of what my graduate sGPA will be. I am fine with doing Master's/Post-Bacc after undergrad, but I still want to increase sGPA as much as possible before graduating instead of graduating ASAP and having a low sGPA.

If I decide to graduate ASAP, I need to drop my science courses and register for Psych classes. I'll probably still retake Orgo but I need to decide soon :/

Please help!

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[curbsideconsult]

If you're planning on apply for the 2019-2020 cycle, your application looks a little weak. Hopefully the church volunteering was a lot of service-to-the-needy type activities. If the volunteering is WITHIN the church (e.g. Sunday school volunteer, toddler room attendant, etc.), that isn't going to count for much. What did you do in Korea as a medical volunteer?

Specifics:

So my original plan was to re-take Orgo 1&2 (C in both) and take couple science courses before I graduate.

I had 4 D's in science courses

Why are you retaking classes you got a C in, but not retaking Ds? The Ds are the ones you should be retaking.

However, my academic advisor who sits on the admission committee for my in-state said that he will not let me do that because he doesn't want me to take extra time taking courses irrelevant to my major

You can, and should, apply to more than just your in-state school.

Plus, he said med schools will consider it as a sign of immaturity if I don't graduate asap.

This is how he feels as an adcom, but I'm quite certain that most other adcoms don't feel this way. In fact, I'm sure other adcoms would take it as a sign of immaturity if you rushed through and graduated before you were ready.

And how exactly is he going to force you to graduate early? What if you don't take the 11 classes in two semesters? What if you stretch it out to three? If you don't have the requisite credits, you can't graduate. SMPs/post-baccs can be quite expensive. Why is he encouraging you to incur more debt than you have to when likely the extra credits you take while still in undergrad will be cheaper and covered by financial aid?

I am fine with doing Master's/Post-Bacc after undergrad, but I still want to increase sGPA as much as possible before graduating instead of graduating ASAP and having a low sGPA.

Your post-bacc grades will be calculated into the sGPA if you take undergraduate level courses regardless of taking them before or after graduation.

 

[Faha]

If you you are in a situation where you graduate early you can always take further undergraduate level science courses at a local college. You will need to take enough additional science courses to raise your sGPA to 3.0 . If both your cGPA and sGPA are over 3.0 and your MCAT score is over 500 then you could receive interviews at some of the newer DO schools.

 

[Goro]

Read this:
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[ziizi]

If you're planning on apply for the 2019-2020 cycle, your application looks a little weak. Hopefully the church volunteering was a lot of service-to-the-needy type activities. If the volunteering is WITHIN the church (e.g. Sunday school volunteer, toddler room attendant, etc.), that isn't going to count for much. What did you do in Korea as a medical volunteer?

It is mostly within the church tbh. However, I started volunteering to hand out clothes and food to the homeless people in the city where my University is located (it's a pretty ghetto city) so I'll add that to my volunteering. Plus, I plan on going to Paraguay over the winter break for another volunteering experience. I just assisted the physicians there. I did little things from handing out the drugs to putting bandages on minor wounds.

Why are you retaking classes you got a C in, but not retaking Ds? The Ds are the ones you should be retaking.

I already retook the first D I received (Systems physiology) and received a C+ ( I really didn't care back then and I just needed to get a C or above to stay in Pharmacy school). Plus, all the other D's I received are Pharmacy student classes so I can't really retake them unless I am a Pharmacy student according to my knowledge. So I figured I should retake Orgo 1 and 2 instead.

This is how he feels as an adcom, but I'm quite certain that most other adcoms don't feel this way. In fact, I'm sure other adcoms would take it as a sign of immaturity if you rushed through and graduated before you were ready.

I also agree. I don't understand why he said this lol I don't feel safe graduating without taking enough science courses. I'll do additional post-bacc if I need to but I would also like to take as many as possible before graduating.

 

[ziizi]

If you you are in a situation where you graduate early you can always take further undergraduate level science courses at a local college. You will need to take enough additional science courses to raise your sGPA to 3.0 . If both your cGPA and sGPA are over 3.0 and your MCAT score is over 500 then you could receive interviews at some of the newer DO schools.

As long as I stay in the US, I will be satisfied. My goal is to become a physician and help the poor, not to go to a highly-ranked MD school

 

[Dr. Basketball]

First of all, this post is kinda long, but please bear with me because I really need advice at the moment. I do know I have messed up a lot throughout school so please refrain from negative comments if you are not going to give me real advice. I have thought about going down this path many times and I am determined to do it no matter what.

So I am a student who decided to switch from 3.5 years in Pharmacy school (out of 6 years) to Pre-med after deciding that Pharmacy is not what I want to do. Now, I have decided not to finish Pharmacy school due to my very low GPA and many personal issues. I wanted to have a brand new start and actually focusing on getting good grades because I never cared about my grades in Pharmacy school. Anyways, I'll try to explain this as easily as possible (plz bear with me)

Current situation:

Started new major in Fall 2017

1. cGPA: 2.947 sGPA: 2.71

• I had 4 D's in science courses (please don't comment on how are you going to survive in Med school if you got so many D's.. I simply was immature and did not try)
  
  
• I'm already sitting on 132 credits from Pharmacy school so you know it's going to be tough to raise my GPA
  
  
• I will most likely to be receiving all A's this semester (2.947 --> 3.067)
  
  
• If I get all A's in my next two semesters, I could bring it up to 3.2+

1. Major: Psychology Minor: Biology

• I already finished my Minor
  
  
• I chose Psychology because I wanted to major in something that I was actually interested
  
  
• I could technically finish my major in two semesters (11 courses left lol)

1. Extracurriculars

• Research:
  • Currently a student researcher in a nonschool affiliated research lab (One publication)
    
    
  • Had a short volunteer research in Pharmaceutics lab over the summer after freshman year (2 months)
• Doctor shadowing:
  • Shadowed an Internal medicine fellow and a Pulmonologist (30+ hours)
• Volunteer:
  • Summer medical volunteer in South Korea (2 months)
    
    
  • School fundraisers
    
    
  • Numerous church volunteering
• School experiences:
  • Resident Assistant (2.5 years)
    
    
  • Class President of 220 students
    
    
  • Two e-board positions in Pharmacy organizations
    
    
  • Currently starting a nationally recognized pre-med organization at my school

This is pretty much everything I can remember.

So my original plan was to re-take Orgo 1&2 (C in both) and take couple science courses before I graduate. This would've taken 4 semesters. However, my academic advisor who sits on the admission committee for my in-state said that he will not let me do that because he doesn't want me to take extra time taking courses irrelevant to my major. Plus, he said med schools will consider it as a sign of immaturity if I don't graduate asap. He basically said he will force me to graduate soon because that's I should be doing. He said I should just finish my Major requirements first and then take science courses as a non-matriculate student OR do Master's/ Post-Bacc program. Now, I don't know what to do because my Undergrad sGPA will still be very low when I apply to Med schools regardless of what my graduate sGPA will be. I am fine with doing Master's/Post-Bacc after undergrad, but I still want to increase sGPA as much as possible before graduating instead of graduating ASAP and having a low sGPA.

If I decide to graduate ASAP, I need to drop my science courses and register for Psych classes. I'll probably still retake Orgo but I need to decide soon :/

Please help!

I would say for sure finish your major at the pace you want. One admissions committee member from one school doesn´t speak for all of the rest. Schools look at your undergrad cGPA and sGPA, so if you have a chance to raise that quite a bit, do it!

It was said below that SMP and Master´s programs are expensive. That is very true. Take if from a guy that did an SMP, only do it as a complete last resort.

I´m just not understanding your GPAs. Are you mixing in your pharmacy school GPA with your undergrad GPA?

 

[ziizi]

I would say for sure finish your major at the pace you want. One admissions committee member from one school doesn´t speak for all of the rest. Schools look at your undergrad cGPA and sGPA, so if you have a chance to raise that quite a bit, do it!

It was said below that SMP and Master´s programs are expensive. That is very true. Take if from a guy that did an SMP, only do it as a complete last resort.

I´m just not understanding your GPAs. Are you mixing in your pharmacy school GPA with your undergrad GPA?

Yes. I am adding up all my cGPA is everything combined from start to end! However, none of the Pharmacy courses count towards sGPA according to my knowledge (based on my school's sGPA calculator, pharmacy school course codes are not included)

 

[Dr. Basketball]

Ohh okay. Well I mean yes there is a line on the application where they do your over all GPA of all of your grades, but they also separate out your undergrad GPA. What is that looking like? If you don´t mind me asking. I only ask because my graduate GPA was not as high as my undergrad GPA but in some interviews it seemed like they focused more on my undergrad GPA.

 

[gyngyn]

It is mostly within the church tbh. However, I started volunteering to hand out clothes and food to the homeless people in the city where my University is located (it's a pretty ghetto city) so I'll add that to my volunteering. Plus, I plan on going to Paraguay over the winter break for another volunteering experience. I just assisted the physicians there. I did little things from handing out the drugs to putting bandages on minor wounds.

If you are doing this for yourself, go right ahead. Be aware that it may have no effect (or a negative effect) on medical school admissions.

 

[gyngyn]

Ohh okay. Well I mean yes there is a line on the application where they do your over all GPA of all of your grades, but they also separate out your undergrad GPA. What is that looking like? If you don´t mind me asking. I only ask because my graduate GPA was not as high as my undergrad GPA but in some interviews it seemed like they focused more on my undergrad GPA.

MD schools use your undergrad grades to evaluate your academic strength. We expect A's in grad school.
DO schools see things differently.

 

[Dr. Basketball]

MD schools use your undergrad grades to evaluate your academic strength. We expect A's in grad school.
DO schools see things differently.

Fair enough. Thank you for the correction. Perhaps to me it seemed like the slightly lower grad GPA wasn´t as big of a factor since it only came up in one interview, but it also could have been a big negative in their eyes, just not enough to be a deal breaker. Always good to get the view point of someone that actually deals with admissions.

Do you feel that pharmacy school grades will be looked at differently? Maybe in a more lenient way since it is a professional school?

 

[gyngyn]

Do you feel that pharmacy school grades will be looked at differently? Maybe in a more lenient way since it is a professional school?

I know of no way to evaluate professional school grades...

 

[SpartanDOnoharm]

I was/am a pharmacist and from my experience my grades weren’t treated differently just because they were from pharmacy school. I will say that I had a couple of schools ask me why I was switching from being a pharmacist to medicine. Make sure you have a good answer for that, as well as an even better answer for why you dropped out of pharmacy school.

The other thing is if you’re having personal issues, make sure you get those taken care of. It’s perfectly acceptable to take a few years off of school to take care of yourself. Medical school exponentially increases the stresses of day to day life.

 

[Tua09053]

so i am a pharmacist... i was also previously pre-med but decided not to go into it... not trying to be mean but medicine is not good path for you... i am someone who never messes up and always perfect and tops in everything i do academically(undergrad gpa 3.75+) if you are someone who sometimes gets lazy or messes up... medicine is NOT for you... it will take u forever to graduate even if you even do... if u do get into med school n mess up once, u will get kick out with nothing show for it... save your money... do something you are good at.... dont understand why people who are NOT academically gift think becoming MD is good idea? if you are not athletic DO NOT become basketball player