Advice on 4th Year Electives

[Bluemirage]

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Hi Everyone,

I am currently an MS 3 at an allopathic school in the process of finalizing my 4th year electives before registration closes next week and I would like to get some advice. I was wondering how many electives in PM&R is necessary for a competitive application and when is the last possible away rotation I can take to earn LOR's? I am having such a hard time planning my electives because I have not had my rotation in PM&R yet and will not be 100% sure about applying for PM&R until I take my rotation in 4th year. Prior to this I was gungho on anesthesiology until I discovered that it did not have enough patient contact for me when I did my Sub-I in third year.

My current plan is to take Step II CK in the first 4th year block, take a PM&R elective at my home program next (runs from end of June to end of July) and then maybe an away elective starting mid-Oct to mid-November. Is this away rotation too late to get an LOR for application purposes? Between end of July and mid-Oct, I am having trouble finding electives that I can take that matches dates to my school's schedule. In addition I am restricted to applying to places that have an legal affiliation agreement with our school (very stupid). The only schools that I can find that matches exactly are Cleveland Clinic (which does not have a PM&R rotation) and UTMB (somewhat of an obscure name for PM&R- I could not find any info about the program on these forums). I can take my elective in Oct at Baylor since I have the Nov block off for interviews and hence some flexibility in my schedule.This whole process is just so tricky especially for people like me that have not made up their minds on what do to going into 4th year. Any advice that anyone can give will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[MSKalltheway]

Two electives is probably a good number. If youre talking about competitive apps/programs, one may be too little unless you otherwise demonstrated great interest in PM&R outside of rotations. Three is probably overkill, especially since it takes away from other electives that you could be doing (I was actually told not to take 3 by pretty much everyone).

The absolute latest for an LOR is when you have your 2nd rotation. You can upload this letter into ERAS once its completed. Just keep in mind though, most programs you'll need to have 3 letters in the system to be considered for an interview. There are a small minority of programs who require ALL of your letters be in (read: all four since thats your max amount), so if you are itching to interview at a place, check how they handle this. To circumvent this, enter only three letters until the fourth is at your deans office, then put it in ERAS so no one is waiting on that last letter to make a decision.

You should not need to match up your school's calendar with another institutions, thats near impossible. Generally when you "audition" elsewhere, the visiting program is pretty cognizant of differing schedules, so you should be able to follow your own schools schedule. The applications usually have start and end dates that you'll fill in, which for your sanity (and possibly ability to graduate on time) should follow your home school's schedule unless told otherwise. My away rotations did not require that I follow their academic schedule.

I hope that helps!

 

[Bluemirage]

Two electives is probably a good number. If youre talking about competitive apps/programs, one may be too little unless you otherwise demonstrated great interest in PM&R outside of rotations. Three is probably overkill, especially since it takes away from other electives that you could be doing (I was actually told not to take 3 by pretty much everyone).

The absolute latest for an LOR is when you have your 2nd rotation. You can upload this letter into ERAS once its completed. Just keep in mind though, most programs you'll need to have 3 letters in the system to be considered for an interview. There are a small minority of programs who require ALL of your letters be in (read: all four since thats your max amount), so if you are itching to interview at a place, check how they handle this. To circumvent this, enter only three letters until the fourth is at your deans office, then put it in ERAS so no one is waiting on that last letter to make a decision.

You should not need to match up your school's calendar with another institutions, thats near impossible. Generally when you "audition" elsewhere, the visiting program is pretty cognizant of differing schedules, so you should be able to follow your own schools schedule. The applications usually have start and end dates that you'll fill in, which for your sanity (and possibly ability to graduate on time) should follow your home school's schedule unless told otherwise. My away rotations did not require that I follow their academic schedule.

I hope that helps!

Thanks for your quick and helpful reply! It sounds like I can make it easier on myself by earning 2 LOR's during my first PM&R home rotation and not having to count on the audition for an additional LOR. My third LOR can be from IM doc I have set up. You must have been lucky with the places you applied to. Looks like all of the places on my approved affiliation list require us to follow their rotation dates (we have to specify their course numbers and block codes in the application). May I ask where you did your rotations?

 

[MSKalltheway]

Thanks for your quick and helpful reply! It sounds like I can make it easier on myself by earning 2 LOR's during my first PM&R home rotation and not having to count on the audition for an additional LOR. My third LOR can be from IM doc I have set up. You must have been lucky with the places you applied to. Looks like all of the places on my approved affiliation list require us to follow their rotation dates (we have to specify their course numbers and block codes in the application). May I ask where you did your rotations?

I would still try to get an LOR from your second rotation, because it can be used later and you can always have it sent before your interviews begin. I got an LOR from a rotation that I did in October and once it was completed (around mid-Nov) I had it uploaded in ERAS so that when my interviews began in Dec everyone had it. Typically you'll be fine so long as you send the LOR within a couple days of your next interview since if your interviewers do read your letters, its generally only a day or two in advance in my experience.

I would call the programs that you plan on rotating at and explain your situation to see if they can let you rotate off their schedule and on yours, especially since I don't see the reason they HAVE to have you on their schedule. All of my classmates and most other students I've interacted with who have done away rotations were able to do it on their home institutions schedule. I could be wrong, but that's my n=1. FYI I rotated at Sinai (Baltimore) and Kessler.

 

[Lanvin]

Two electives is probably a good number. If youre talking about competitive apps/programs, one may be too little unless you otherwise demonstrated great interest in PM&R outside of rotations. Three is probably overkill, especially since it takes away from other electives that you could be doing (I was actually told not to take 3 by pretty much everyone).

I need some advice. I'm currently torn between 8-10 weeks of PM&R rotations. The person I quoted recommends against 3 rotations and I understand their argument, but since I haven't spent any time in PM&R yet I'm not sure if I might be an exception.

I haven't been able to rotate through my institution's PM&R service and I'm hoping to go someplace new for residency. I think it would look best to have a letter from my home program so I plan on spending at least 2 weeks here. My short-term goal is to get into a program like UW or RIC; long-term goal is spine or pain fellowship.

Which of the following would be best?
a) two 4-week electives (one of which being my home program)
b) one 2-week and two 4-week electives (if this, should I do a 2 or 4-week elective at my home program?)
c) one 6-week and one 4-week elective

Thanks.

 

[superiortrunk5]

I need some advice. I'm currently torn between 8-10 weeks of PM&R rotations. The person I quoted recommends against 3 rotations and I understand their argument, but since I haven't spent any time in PM&R yet I'm not sure if I might be an exception.

I haven't been able to rotate through my institution's PM&R service and I'm hoping to go someplace new for residency. I think it would look best to have a letter from my home program so I plan on spending at least 2 weeks here. My short-term goal is to get into a program like UW or RIC; long-term goal is spine or pain fellowship.

Which of the following would be best?
a) two 4-week electives (one of which being my home program)
b) one 2-week and two 4-week electives (if this, should I do a 2 or 4-week elective at my home program?)
c) one 6-week and one 4-week elective

Thanks.

I would avoid doing a two week AWAY rotation. I did an "audition" rotation, and prior to my arrival, there was a student who did a two week rotation. The attendings and residents made comments about two weeks being too short a period of time to get to know that person. It also makes it difficult to get the full breadth of a program in two weeks (inpatient, consults, outpatient, etc....).

Keep in mind that if you plan on rotating at UW, they have a very competitive visiting student rotation application due to a limited number of spots. Make sure you get the required application materials to them way in advance.

 

[40YardDash]

Two electives is probably a good number. If youre talking about competitive apps/programs, one may be too little unless you otherwise demonstrated great interest in PM&R outside of rotations. Three is probably overkill, especially since it takes away from other electives that you could be doing (I was actually told not to take 3 by pretty much everyone).

are we talking about 2 "intro to PM&R" electives or does this include subspecialties within PM&R as well? I am currently setting up 4th year electives and was planning on doing one audition PM&R at UTMB and then going to baylor houston and doing an MSK PM&R, traumatic brain injury PM&R, and cancer treatment PM&R electives. then I would end with a sub-I IM, dermatology, ER, family med at my home school.... is doing 4 electives within PM&R and its subs a bad idea? Appreciate any input.

 

[superiortrunk5]

are we talking about 2 "intro to PM&R" electives or does this include subspecialties within PM&R as well? I am currently setting up 4th year electives and was planning on doing one audition PM&R at UTMB and then going to baylor houston and doing an MSK PM&R, traumatic brain injury PM&R, and cancer treatment PM&R electives. then I would end with a sub-I IM, dermatology, ER, family med at my home school.... is doing 4 electives within PM&R and its subs a bad idea? Appreciate any input.

I think 4 electives in PM&R is overkill. Also, if you have any interest in the Baylor-Houston program, 3 months may be way too much exposure. Remember, it only takes one bad day on a rotation to completely ruin your chances of matching at a program. If I were you, I would schedule electives in peripherally related specialties to PM&R (ortho, neuro surg, neurology, rheumatology, urology, etc....).

 

[40YardDash]

I think 4 electives in PM&R is overkill. Also, if you have any interest in the Baylor-Houston program, 3 months may be way too much exposure. Remember, it only takes one bad day on a rotation to completely ruin your chances of matching at a program. If I were you, I would schedule electives in peripherally related specialties to PM&R (ortho, neuro surg, neurology, rheumatology, urology, etc....).

I never thought of that. thanks. I think i might have to make some changes

 

[Modizzle]

Hi,

I am also a 3rd year medical student planning my 4th year schedule and I had the same question as to whether to do 2 or 3 PM&R electives (one at home school plus 2 away). I am going to do the PM&R elective at my home school in July and then an away rotation in September. I was wondering if I should try to do another away rotation in October.

My school does not have a PM&R program and I do not have any research or previous experience in PM&R, so I thought that it might be important to get more exposure. It would be easier on me, financially and logistically, to just do one away rotation, but if doing 2 will help me to match, that is most important to me.

Apologies if this is redundant.

Thanks!

 

[superiortrunk5]

Hi,

I am also a 3rd year medical student planning my 4th year schedule and I had the same question as to whether to do 2 or 3 PM&R electives (one at home school plus 2 away). I am going to do the PM&R elective at my home school in July and then an away rotation in September. I was wondering if I should try to do another away rotation in October.

My school does not have a PM&R program and I do not have any research or previous experience in PM&R, so I thought that it might be important to get more exposure. It would be easier on me, financially and logistically, to just do one away rotation, but if doing 2 will help me to match, that is most important to me.

Apologies if this is redundant.

Thanks!

One of the benefits of doing your first PM&R rotation at your home school, is using it as a "warm-up" for your auditions. Make that month count! Study hard! Read, ask goods questions, and work for a high level of autonomy with the patients you follow. This will definitely make you stand out when on auditions. When I was scheduling my fourth year, everyone told me that two audition rotations was the magic number. It really depends on how competitive your application is as a whole, how many programs are your #1 on paper, and how feasible it is for you to be away for two months. I did two, and ended up ranking a program I didn't rotate at as my #1. So, in my situation, zero auditions could have been the magic number 🙂. Sorry if this doesn't give you a concrete answer, but your decision to do one vs. two is really situation dependent IMO.