Advice on Accepting a Job at the VA

[NorthSide1]

Any VA pharmacists out there?
Wonder if you have any general advice on being a pharmacist or moving up in the VA?

I did a PGY1 residency in the VA system and recently accepted a verbal offer for a job GS12 inpatient at a different VA. Not sure what step they will place me at. Do you have any advice with the onboarding process? One bummer is that my pension payment is 4.4% and my coworkers only have to pay 0.08%. Wish I could have started at the VA 3 years sooner and been under the old pension rules.... having ~ $4,000 taken out of paycheck each year makes me want to leave the VA or at least get a GS13 job in am care for better hours which help me rationalize that extra pay cut.

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[lord999]

It's 0.8% and senior pharmacists were paid significantly less than market at midcareer (it's less than market today, but even on straight pay, you're not more than $15k off hospital pay) than your own starting pay. Search other posts on the Board, there's several that remark on the advancement possibilities.

If pay is the most significant factor, working in the VA is not a happy place to be. We're even considering pay cuts to pharmacists by redoing their schedules.

 

[NorthSide1]

It's 0.8% and senior pharmacists were paid significantly less than market at midcareer (it's less than market today, but even on straight pay, you're not more than $15k off hospital pay) than your own starting pay. Search other posts on the Board, there's several that remark on the advancement possibilities.

If pay is the most significant factor, working in the VA is not a happy place to be. We're even considering pay cuts to pharmacists by redoing their schedules.

Thanks for the input.
I knew pay was worse in the VA (ugh, too bad to hear it might get worse) , but I thought benefits would make up for it. However, with the 4.4% vs 0.8% benefits aren't looking much better. I feel like VA jobs have a little bit more security compared to retail market. Also I do love working with Veterans and I like ambulatory care and 8-430 work hours. I took an inpatient job with the idea to be able to apply internally to a different VA Am Care job someday.

 

[rxdawg21]

You seem to know what it takes to move up. There are plenty of amcare listings at this time. Make sure you make a good impression where you are.

 

[rxdawg21]

It's 0.8% and senior pharmacists were paid significantly less than market at midcareer (it's less than market today, but even on straight pay, you're not more than $15k off hospital pay) than your own starting pay. Search other posts on the Board, there's several that remark on the advancement possibilities.

If pay is the most significant factor, working in the VA is not a happy place to be. We're even considering pay cuts to pharmacists by redoing their schedules.

How serious are the talks for the pay cuts? And the current pharmacists would most likely be grandfathered in (like everything else seems to be). Also your senior pharmacist thing is kinda of mute at my va there are less than 5 who were there before 2011. So majority benefit from lower pension without the lower pay for majority of their careers. Also at least in my state the VA is about even with hospital pay. Definitely less then retail but that is to be expected.

 

[lord999]

There's a widespread internal feeling around HR that the health professions are not as scarce anymore (pharmacy is not the only entity) due to the Loan Forgiveness policy. The last pharmacists who had retention bonuses just due to station assignment ended this fiscal year outside of Texas. If the salary surveys for this next year keep the same rend as this year's (lower), then HR will reconsider the Special Salary Tables by geographic area again if they have the time. What happens is that Title 38 pharmacists get the General Schedule Salary, but a hidden supplement from the general public is included in our payscales.

Title 38 Pay Schedules - Office of Human Resources Management (OHRM)

Look for 0660 in your area under Special Salary Tables (SST) to see the band differences from your locality General Schedule. I doubt California or New York's will change much as the floor General Schedule is very high in those areas too, but areas where there are a surfeit of pharmacists (Austin, South Florida, Pacific Northwest), I can see HR cutting those SST's to be more in line with the GS and issue SF-52's to all existing ones covered under the payband to realign their salaries closer to the GS. Remember, those SST's are always "temporary" to allow for flexible HR action, you're not technically at a permanent salary above the GS.

I have a longer discussion on nurse and physician pay, that's already being changed as VA just doesn't intend to invest in them at the moment. I think it's really shortsighted (a nonperforming physician costs are outsized from the savings), but accounting is in charge, not clinical.

By the way, if you're a CMOP pharmacist, their pay is either set to the DC band or the Hines band regardless of locality, our Mafia at Central Office did a good job in securing good market pay for them.

How serious are the talks? Well, since we're paying for Cerner talks and Community Care from an unappropriated budget, that slush money has to come from somewhere. 10N is supposed to come up with $100M to keep these programs ongoing, so this is seriously on the table. We've cut into the bone much of this year for Community Care already as who would have thought that private care was so expensive? There's a much longer discussion about how the Antideficiency Act works in terms of VA cannot commit us to a coercive obligation, but they can work around that by using other appropriated money to do those things anyway. I won't bore you to death with the policy wonk stuff, but that money's coming out of our hides.

 

[Saiyo]

All of my friends at who have done a residency at the VA ended up at step 1. Personally I think its kind of dumb how people can spend a few years making bank in retail, come in with a higher-step, and be complaining of the paycut! Theres a few threads on here like that.

However, A paycut close to regular gs levels would be terrible unless they somehow rework the grade system for pharmacists to make it easier for us to get higher grades- the regular gs payscale would just be way too low for most of us to rationalize....

Currently I think government jobs have better benefits and job security than anything else you could find in healthcare unless you find a unicorn job, plus you can climb the payscale relatively quickly.

 

[lord999]

All of my friends at who have done a residency at the VA ended up at step 1. Personally I think its kind of dumb how people can spend a few years making bank in retail, come in with a higher-step, and be complaining of the paycut! Theres a few threads on here like that.

However, A paycut close to regular gs levels would be terrible unless they somehow rework the grade system for pharmacists to make it easier for us to get higher grades- the regular gs payscale would just be way too low for most of us to rationalize....

Currently I think government jobs have better benefits and job security than anything else you could find in healthcare unless you find a unicorn job, plus you can climb the payscale relatively quickly.

I suppose I should vent that my initial appointment in the civil service was GS-9 (O-3) and clinical pharmacists were appointed as GS-11. People hired from the outside have to work for retail, which you and I chose not to do as a full-time thing. Also, without advanced training, ex-retail have very few options for advancement. Not to argue about suffering, but we get equivalent amounts one way or another. You can always argue for a better deal. While I served a year at GS-9, I went from GS-9 to GS-14 within two years and got my first unicorn job being at the right place at the right time, something that I would have never had if I chased the money all that time. I did the opposite of the Scarface career advancement program (got the woman first, then the power, and then the money), but the way government works, you get the power first, then depending on ambition, you get the money, and if you're part of our Mafia, you then get the real power.

There's two truisms about how this works which my first civil service director taught me, and they've held true:
1. Worry about yourself in terms of things, if you want more money, figure out the system to give you more money.
2. Don't worry about the others. Especially for problem people, they will take care of themselves, and people usually end up where they ought to be.

Yeah, there's real corruption in the Central Office and in quite a number of hospitals. Unless you're into it, don't join in as it all does settle out in the end.

As for being very money conscious, unless you want to enter the e-pharmacy division in Community Care or do contracting at the NAC, I don't think the opportunities for Bilko-style profiteering are there right now. The last couple we've fired from CMOP and the NAC though made bank before they were caught.

 

[pharm B]

I know the pay is off, but don't you walk in the door with 2 weeks of PTO and 2 weeks of Sick leave?

 

[NorthSide1]

I went from GS-9 to GS-14 within two years and got my first unicorn job being at the right place at the right time, something that I would have never had if I chased the money all that time.

dang that's impressive 9 to 14 in 2 years!! I just want to get to GS13 after doing a residency in the VA I thought that would be fair to me.

 

[lord999]

I know the pay is off, but don't you walk in the door with 2 weeks of PTO and 2 weeks of Sick leave?

And 10 days of federal holiday. But the restrictions on leave taking are much more stringent than the private sector. I have seen supervisors screw over people they hated by forcing them into bad vacation schedules (cancel at the last minute, only approve leave of three days or less) quite legally. So, for a normal pharmacist, the technical time off is nice, but whether or not you actually get to use it the way you want is situation specific.

Let me put it another way though. If you can take vacation whenever you want, you're either replaceable enough that you're a commodity or you have really good relations with your oversight. I can't take more than 3 days at a time without it coming back to haunt me from the stupid people doing things outside my watch (not my people, but others in CO smell blood when you're gone).

Overall, government is still fair compensation, but it has its moments.

 

[pharm B]

Let me put it another way though. If you can take vacation whenever you want, you're either replaceable enough that you're a commodity or you have really good relations with your oversight. I can't take more than 3 days at a time without it coming back to haunt me from the stupid people doing things outside my watch (not my people, but others in CO smell blood when you're gone).

This is one reason I love my lowly staffer position in retail so much. I know some days can be not fun, but it's more or less fast-paced, pays well, and vacation policy is relatively laid back with my company. My attention span is 100% available for volunteerism in the community this way.

 

[Hope1974]

This is one reason I love my lowly staffer position in retail so much. I know some days can be not fun, but it's more or less fast-paced, pays well, and vacation policy is relatively laid back with my company. My attention span is 100% available for volunteerism in the community this way.

Pharmacist are a dime a dozen. In retail you may be able to take time off more easily than government employees. But, retail pharmacist are more easily replaceable because there is little job security. At the end of the day, or at the end of 20 years, the pharmacists that work for the government will still have their job. (And, I might add, they will have superior health insurance at that time as well, something you will definitely need when you’re old.)

 

[pharm B]

Pharmacist are a dime a dozen. In retail you may be able to take time off more easily than government employees. But, retail pharmacist are more easily replaceable because there is little job security. At the end of the day, or at the end of 20 years, the pharmacists that work for the government will still have their job. (And, I might add, they will have superior health insurance at that time as well, something you will definitely need when you’re old.)

That's why you slog away at retirement stuff early. Hell, I'd FIRE out tomorrow if my family was able to handle it.

 

[Hope1974]

That's why you slog away at retirement stuff early. Hell, I'd FIRE out tomorrow if my family was able to handle it.

Keep slogging away. Ima sit on my a** while you slogging in retail, and still retire early.

 

[lord999]

Keep slogging away. Ima sit on my a** while you slogging in retail, and still retire early.

Being in government long enough, I don't think it'll be that certain. You've never heard of RIF before. It does happen, and I'd keep from becoming too complacent.

 

[bacillus1]

Check if your position is EDRP eligible. If it is, you get money toward your loans, and that's a pretty nice benefit. I started at a 12-2 after residency. Pay difference depends on where you live. Here, we actually get paid more than the biggest medical center around (mainly because their pay is really bad). When I was in California, although I was paid more, we were paid way less than all other private-sector hospitals. In addition, although yes having that 4.4% taken out sucks, keep in mind that it doesn't actually go away and more than pays for itself once you retire.

 

[NorthSide1]

Check if your position is EDRP eligible. If it is, you get money toward your loans, and that's a pretty nice benefit. I started at a 12-2 after residency. Pay difference depends on where you live. Here, we actually get paid more than the biggest medical center around (mainly because their pay is really bad). When I was in California, although I was paid more, we were paid way less than all other private-sector hospitals. In addition, although yes having that 4.4% taken out sucks, keep in mind that it doesn't actually go away and more than pays for itself once you retire.

Thanks for the information I will see if my job is EDRP. I hope I get 12-2 because I did a residency too.

 

[IndyPrePharm]

Refer here: Should I take a pay cut to be a VA pharmacist??

then take the job!