Advice on LOR from physician help wanted

[RiverLore]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hello everyone,

I recently resigned from a position where I was a medication technician for a physician’s private practice in a small town, and I want to ask them for a letter of recommendation—especially since I’m not sure if I’ll ever have the opportunity to work for another physician before applying. However, I am hesitant to do this because I resigned due to the work environment being toxic (I haven’t outright told them this, I had a bunch of health issues at the time, so I cited that as my reason for resigning) because of their behavior that lead to me feeling like I was constantly walking on eggshells and making me extremely stressed in my day-to-day life. There were also some operational practices at the clinic that didn’t sit right with me (i.e. expecting all communication about clinical information to the doctor to happen face to face and the doctor being upset with me for expecting them to read chart notes).

Edit: my main concern is about the optics of having this doctor listed as my boss/supervisor for this job in my activities section and then not have an LOR from them in my primary application--I imagine that could look a bit strange to most admission committees, but I'm not sure. I also don't know if even having that experience on my primary application would be a good idea because of the above, even though I did have quite a few significant and personally impactful clinical experiences while I was there.

I’m not sure what to do, and any advice or discussion if any one else has been in similar situations be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

 

[LizzyM]

Unless your current school requires a physician letter in order to get a committee letter, you don't need a letter from a physician. If you are applying to DO schools, a letter from a DO is said to be helpful, but nothing in your message suggests that is the case.

In any case, I would scour the hills for anyone else who could possibly write a physician letter if you need one as this b**** does not seem like the type to give you a fair shake in a letter.

 

[wysdoc]

Hello everyone,

I recently, just resigned from the position where I was a medication technician for a physician’s private practice in a small town, and I want to ask them for a letter of recommendation—especially since I’m not sure if I’ll ever have the opportunity to work for another physician before applying. However, I am hesitant to do this because I resigned due to the work environment being toxic (I haven’t outright told her this) because of their behavior that lead to me feeling like I was constantly walking on eggshells and making me extremely stressed in my day-to-day life. There were also some operational practices at the clinic that didn’t sit right with me (i.e. expecting all communication about clinical information to the doctor to happen face to face and the doctor being upset with me for expecting them to read chart notes).

I’m not sure what to do, and any advice or discussion if any one else has been in similar situations be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Most medical schools do not require a letter from an MD, luckily for you.

 

[polymerization]

You know now that you don't need a physician letter. I would guess the operative question really is, where are you in your process, and what letters do you have, if any? That can help us figure out whether you are better served by applying with individual letters or a committee letter. You may have graduated and lack access or favor with your pre-health committee, I don't know.

If you are still early enough in your process that you have professors and other people you can ask, open an Interfolio account only you have access to, and ask faculty at a point in the semester where they still know you, think fondly of you, and are likely to extend goodwill. Do NOT wait until the point of application and ask 3 professors and expect them to say yes and submit in time.

Aside from that, you've learned a lesson here you may not realize. It kind of doesn't matter that someone is a "professional;" that you admire(d) them and felt ownership over your work beyond what you otherwise would have on that basis; or that you had an implicit understanding between the two of you that your role would end with a recommendation.

Someone who has been in your shoes before and understands your vulnerability is perfectly capable of reneging on agreements and even creating obstacles to your success out of spite.

Protect yourself. Do not expect anyone will look out for you, because alliances at the bottom of the totem pole are fickle. As an undergraduate, you have no institutional power to enforce an agreement or compel any action on anyone. On the flip side, you can see how this individual's rank has influenced your rational best interest, even after resigning and realizing they are... to use LM's term, a *****.

 

[RiverLore]

Unless your current school requires a physician letter in order to get a committee letter, you don't need a letter from a physician. If you are applying to DO schools, a letter from a DO is said to be helpful, but nothing in your message suggests that is the case.

In any case, I would scour the hills for anyone else who could possibly write a physician letter if you need one as this b**** does not seem like the type to give you a fair shake in a letter.

They are a DO, and I am interested in maybe applying to DO schools--since the state/location I'm in has a lot of quite good DO schools--but I'll make sure to look for opportunities to get letters from other DO's. Thank you so much for your reply! 💖

 

[RiverLore]

Most medical schools do not require a letter from an MD, luckily for you.

I know, but I suppose I got it in my head that not having an LOR from a doctor (MD or otherwise) would put me at some sort of disadvantage, but it seems like it might not be that important/weighed that heavily(depending on the school, ofc)? Thank you so much for your reply! 💖

 

[RiverLore]

You know now that you don't need a physician letter. I would guess the operative question really is, where are you in your process, and what letters do you have, if any? That can help us figure out whether you are better served by applying with individual letters or a committee letter. You may have graduated and lack access or favor with your pre-health committee, I don't know.

If you are still early enough in your process that you have professors and other people you can ask, open an Interfolio account only you have access to, and ask faculty at a point in the semester where they still know you, think fondly of you, and are likely to extend goodwill. Do NOT wait until the point of application and ask 3 professors and expect them to say yes and submit in time.

Aside from that, you've learned a lesson here you may not realize. It kind of doesn't matter that someone is a "professional;" that you admire(d) them and felt ownership over your work beyond what you otherwise would have on that basis; or that you had an implicit understanding between the two of you that your role would end with a recommendation.

Someone who has been in your shoes before and understands your vulnerability is perfectly capable of reneging on agreements and even creating obstacles to your success out of spite.

Protect yourself. Do not expect anyone will look out for you, because alliances at the bottom of the totem pole are fickle. As an undergraduate, you have no institutional power to enforce an agreement or compel any action on anyone. On the flip side, you can see how this individual's rank has influenced your rational best interest, even after resigning and realizing they are... to use LM's term, a *****.

Hi there, thank you so much for your reply! 💖

I am still quite early in the process--I'm a non-trad student and I just started a post-bacc to finish the bio and chem pre-reqs I need, so I have time to still accumulate more LORs. I've signed up for interfolio, but I haven't had the chance to really set it up yet, so I'll make sure to set aside some time to do that.

Also, my main concern was about the optics of having this doctor listed as my boss/supervisor for this job in my activities section and then not have an LOR from them in my primary application--I imagine that could look a bit strange to most admission committees, but I'm not sure.

I had also heard that having an LOR from a doctor would look great in the primary application (if written well, ofc), but now I'm not sure how much of that has been exaggerated by the reddit/sdn echo chambers, haha 😅

But yes, this has definitely taught me a lesson, and I'll for sure be more careful--especially with professional boundaries--in the future. I'm honestly glad that I was able to get out when I did--they initially told me that the time commitment for the job would be much less than it actually was too, I'm really lucky my grades didn't end up suffering too much because of the longer than anticipated work hours....

 

[polymerization]

Hi there, thank you so much for your reply! 💖

I am still quite early in the process--I'm a non-trad student and I just started a post-bacc to finish the bio and chem pre-reqs I need, so I have time to still accumulate more LORs. I've signed up for interfolio, but I haven't had the chance to really set it up yet, so I'll make sure to set aside some time to do that.

Also, my main concern was about the optics of having this doctor listed as my boss/supervisor for this job in my activities section and then not have an LOR from them in my primary application--I imagine that could look a bit strange to most admission committees, but I'm not sure.

I had also heard that having an LOR from a doctor would look great in the primary application (if written well, ofc), but now I'm not sure how much of that has been exaggerated by the reddit/sdn echo chambers, haha 😅

But yes, this has definitely taught me a lesson, and I'll for sure be more careful--especially with professional boundaries--in the future. I'm honestly glad that I was able to get out when I did--they initially told me that the time commitment for the job would be much less than it actually was too, I'm really lucky my grades didn't end up suffering too much because of the longer than anticipated work hours....

If you're still early in your process, open that Interfolio account and collect your 3 letters from your professors. Open a committee file. Your pre-health professions office may invite you to store letters with them. Politely and delicately decline or redirect. Store them in Interfolio and have them sent to their office to ensure you have independent access to those letters should the process fail.

If you are able to get through the committee process, none of this matters because a committee letter overrides all other letters, so the absence of the physician letter will not be conspicuous.

Of course, the absence of a physician letter may not be conspicuous regardless, so if you are not able to get a committee letter in time, applying with strong individual letters from professors is not the end of the world.

I think the explanatory value of a physician letter is overblown, anyway. Every doctor I've ever worked with that has offered me a letter was offering to sign a letter, not write it. They don't have the time. Whether that means you have to write it or ChatGPT does, what a physician letter can reasonably say is limited. Optimistically, they can say you showed sufficient preparation to move on to medical training and show confidence in your ability to execute your role professionally. They can describe you as warm, pleasant, punctual, trustworthy, etc. But so can a professor, at least theoretically.

I think the challenge in getting an individualized professor letter is establishing a rapport and showing curiosity. Going to office hours, recitation, asking questions about the content, participating in class, and finding opportunities to engage.

I remember I was taking biochemistry while studying for the MCAT and one of my UWorld questions was about a specific esoteric protein we had discussed in class as a challenge. I sent a screenshot of the question I got right because of that specific lesson to my professor and we chit-chatted about the coincidence. That kind of thing. Build a relationship, foster goodwill (in a way that is not excessive or creepy), and timing is everything.

I like to wait to ask maybe a week or two after final grades are in to give them an opportunity to decompress from submitting. Long enough to show compassion for their workload, but not long enough for them to totally forget about who you are (and trust me, they will).

Also, you should know sometimes (assistant and adjunct) professors are vying for more permanent roles/tenure and are also scoping out their students for recommendations. 2 of my 6 recommenders initially asked me for my recommendation in support of their tenure. I am unusually verbose in student evaluations... maybe that had something to do with it? (I thought those things were anonymous!)

At any rate, recommending your professor is a really slam-dunk way to secure your own letter. Be prompt, do your best, and I mean... you want it to be a strong letter for obvious reasons. They will be gracious and you will smile kindly and say how much they deserve [whatever] and how they should reach out when they do receive good news so that you can celebrate them.

When they do (or a classy amount of time has elapsed as not to appear transactional), you can casually mention you are fielding recommenders and thought of them. Blah, blah, blah, a tale as old as time, you have the best letter you can even imagine. One of them submitted the very same day and was effusive. And I kind of get it, it might be refreshing from their perspective. So many students approach them for letters first. But to repay a professional favor? I think it is an easier pill to swallow and goes a long way to show mutual interest in each other's careers over time.

It turns out the best recommendation doesn't come from being the smartest or most prepared or whatever. Genuine gratitude, a solid professional relationship, and goodwill gets you way farther.

And maybe... maybe... that is what schools are selecting for. Probably not actually, but I have to gaslight myself or I'll go insane from all the pre-med side quests.

 

[chilly_md]

I had also heard that having an LOR from a doctor would look great in the primary application (if written well, ofc), but now I'm not sure how much of that has been exaggerated by the reddit/sdn echo chambers, haha 😅

SDN over the last several years across many threads should have the consistent message that a physician LOR is unnecessary for MD schools, with declining need for DO schools.

A LOR from someone who was frequently upset and unprofessional with you and the overall staff would be bad for your app or at best, not add anything if the readers get the sense of what this work environment was like.