teacherman84

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Via Christi in Wichita is a great program...very full spectrum. Exposure to a lot. I know a few grads and they are top notch.

JPS in TX...huge but awesome training. Technically opposed but FM pretty much runs the large county hospital. I've heard nothing but good things.

Alaska FMR...it's hard to be the level of full spectrum with AK. Great people, once in a lifetime experiences.

These 3 would've been at my top choices if I had been able to train civilian.
 
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OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
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2
Thank you both! Very helpful. Tuscaloosa is on my list. The Kansas, Texas, and Alaska I think I ruled out based on geography. Thank you.

Does anyone else have any input please?
 

primadonna22274

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McLeod in Florence, SC. Unopposed. 550 bed level 2 trauma, 120 bed ICU tower open to residents, NICU. We serve a million people from 15 counties encompassing NE SC and SE NC. You will directly care for sick sick sick patients you would never get to touch at a university program.
Once you've worked here, you can work anywhere.


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VA Hopeful Dr

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Palmetto Health in Columbia, SC and Trident in Charleston, SC aren't going to give you great full-scope training - that's the price you pay training at academic centers (yes I know Trident is technically separate from MUSC, but intern year isn't). This would also exclude places like Wake or UNC.

Greenwood, SC is great medical training but I think their procedure training leaves something to be desired.

If location doesn't matter, West Coast programs tend to be more full scope than east coast (where's @VenturaResident at?). For east coast, you'll want to look more towards rural places.
 

cabinbuilder

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Thank you both! Very helpful. Tuscaloosa is on my list. The Kansas, Texas, and Alaska I think I ruled out based on geography. Thank you.

Does anyone else have any input please?
Geography should not trump opportunity. Residency is only 3 years. Seems a bit short sighted.
 
OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
13
2
Geography should not trump opportunity. Residency is only 3 years. Seems a bit short sighted.
Thanks for the shot about being short sighted...I ruled them out geography wise because of my wife and kids + lack of in laws/friends to help baby sit.
 
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OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
13
2
Palmetto Health in Columbia, SC and Trident in Charleston, SC aren't going to give you great full-scope training - that's the price you pay training at academic centers (yes I know Trident is technically separate from MUSC, but intern year isn't). This would also exclude places like Wake or UNC.

Greenwood, SC is great medical training but I think their procedure training leaves something to be desired.

If location doesn't matter, West Coast programs tend to be more full scope than east coast (where's @VenturaResident at?). For east coast, you'll want to look more towards rural places.
Thank you. That's really helpful. Would you mind telling me a little bit more about Greenwood's program? Do you mean procedure training like in-office procedures or more c-sections, etc? I'm interested but would love to hear more about their program.
 
Last edited:
OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
13
2
McLeod in Florence, SC. Unopposed. 550 bed level 2 trauma, 120 bed ICU tower open to residents, NICU. We serve a million people from 15 counties encompassing NE SC and SE NC. You will directly care for sick sick sick patients you would never get to touch at a university program.
Once you've worked here, you can work anywhere.


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Thank you. Would you be able to tell me more about what Florence the area is like? What's the population, culture, and school system like?
 

JustPlainBill

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Geography should not trump opportunity. Residency is only 3 years. Seems a bit short sighted.
While I admit to not having taken the time to actually read the thread, I cannot agree with @cabinbuilder more....

I made my decision on residency based on proximity to a long established home and deep roots in a particular city --- I feel like my choice hurt me --

the choice I faced:

-- 2 children about to go into middle school (grades 6-8) living in the only home they ever knew, literally within sight of one set of grandparents and less than 5 miles from the other with my wife working in a nice little mom and pop firm that allowed a flexible schedule and she could work at home. We had plenty of support from grandparents and friends, and knew all the good repair people, etc. everything that comes with 17 years in the same place.

The residency choices locally were between a University opposed residency that no one wanted to be at because of the training but everyone wanted because of the location (Dallas); the benefits were sucky but they played it up as "we're going to train you to be the best FM physicians you can be" --- no one really talked about the training in depth --- the other residency was a community residency that was really weak on OB and just about everything else but they were nicer to their people.

versus

-- moving 2 hours away to a more rural setting -- they had a Starbucks, small mall, movie theater and generally were like a small suburb with a remote branch of the main state University in town ---- program was like a JPS-light -- full scope, preparing you for being out in the boonies -- heck, the PD even had a thing where he trained his residents (and they actually deployed during a major natural disaster) to be ready to set up shop in 8 man squad tents and see patients with acute needs s/p natural disaster -- even had ready bags per resident and the whole schtick (he was a former South African Defense Forces Commando) --OB was run by a guy dual boarded in FM and OB -- you get trained up to be signed off to do your own CSections if you wanted, lots and lots of procedures (ICU/bedside/office) and a warm environment --- the schools were a bit shady (had a teacher stabbed with a pencil by a student the week we were there) but there was a private school that we later learned offered scholarships to families of residents. The benefits of this residency were all around better.

The night we had to lock in our choices for the match, I almost changed it to the second one -- but my wife told me not to change it lightly, we had discussed it, etc. --- should have gone with my gut --- why?

Well, due to a decision based largely on geography, I walked into the residency from hell --- poor training, abusive (both physically and verbally) and almost ended my career in medicine before it began.

this is the only 3 years where you can get supervised training --- you need to choose wisely, based on the training, not the geography, convenience or anything else -- what sort of practice do you want when you get out and then interview at places that will train you to do that.

Choose wisely.
 
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primadonna22274

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Agree with my buddy above that you won't find what you want at Trident or Palmetto.
Look to the smaller programs...Greenwood (great if you're a conservative Christian, and not Catholic, not bitter at all lol I didn't get an interview). Don't know much about their procedural training. AnMed in Anderson is great too,more of what you're looking for.
We have outstanding procedural training at McLeod with a longitudinal ultrasound curriculum and hands-on training in most outpatient and inpatient procedures you could desire. Don't neglect the value of an open ICU to your training...MANY FM folks get shafted there...definitely not us.

Florence is a small town with great cost of living and good schools. Close to the beach, close to the mountains, has a small regional airport that routes through Charlotte. You can get anywhere from here rather quickly.

Also, the health system has won numerous national awards for clinical excellence. 24 HealthGrades awards just yesterday. I'm blessed and proud to train here.

Take a look.
McLeod Hospital – Florence | Residency Programs – Family Medicine
https://www.mcleodhealth.org/mrmc-florence/residency/mcleod-family-medicine-residency.html

McLeod Hospital | McLeod Health Hospital
https://www.mcleodhealth.org/?jtpl=7&lang=en




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OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
13
2
While I admit to not having taken the time to actually read the thread, I cannot agree with @cabinbuilder more....

I made my decision on residency based on proximity to a long established home and deep roots in a particular city --- I feel like my choice hurt me --

the choice I faced:

-- 2 children about to go into middle school (grades 6-8) living in the only home they ever knew, literally within sight of one set of grandparents and less than 5 miles from the other with my wife working in a nice little mom and pop firm that allowed a flexible schedule and she could work at home. We had plenty of support from grandparents and friends, and knew all the good repair people, etc. everything that comes with 17 years in the same place.

The residency choices locally were between a University opposed residency that no one wanted to be at because of the training but everyone wanted because of the location (Dallas); the benefits were sucky but they played it up as "we're going to train you to be the best FM physicians you can be" --- no one really talked about the training in depth --- the other residency was a community residency that was really weak on OB and just about everything else but they were nicer to their people.

versus

-- moving 2 hours away to a more rural setting -- they had a Starbucks, small mall, movie theater and generally were like a small suburb with a remote branch of the main state University in town ---- program was like a JPS-light -- full scope, preparing you for being out in the boonies -- heck, the PD even had a thing where he trained his residents (and they actually deployed during a major natural disaster) to be ready to set up shop in 8 man squad tents and see patients with acute needs s/p natural disaster -- even had ready bags per resident and the whole schtick (he was a former South African Defense Forces Commando) --OB was run by a guy dual boarded in FM and OB -- you get trained up to be signed off to do your own CSections if you wanted, lots and lots of procedures (ICU/bedside/office) and a warm environment --- the schools were a bit shady (had a teacher stabbed with a pencil by a student the week we were there) but there was a private school that we later learned offered scholarships to families of residents. The benefits of this residency were all around better.

The night we had to lock in our choices for the match, I almost changed it to the second one -- but my wife told me not to change it lightly, we had discussed it, etc. --- should have gone with my gut --- why?

Well, due to a decision based largely on geography, I walked into the residency from hell --- poor training, abusive (both physically and verbally) and almost ended my career in medicine before it began.

this is the only 3 years where you can get supervised training --- you need to choose wisely, based on the training, not the geography, convenience or anything else -- what sort of practice do you want when you get out and then interview at places that will train you to do that.

Choose wisely.
Thank you, that's very helpful advice. I appreciate it. We have family kind of spread throughout the southeast and that's why it's a little heavy around there as 3-4 hours of driving for in laws would work out well. Are the programs in Texas, Alaska, and Kansas that much better than the southeastern ones to consider them in light of this?
 

cabinbuilder

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Thanks for the shot about being short sighted...I ruled them out geography wise because of my wife and kids + lack of in laws/friends to help baby sit.
It wasn't a shot. You did not mention the family portion of your equation, only geography. Plus your list covered both sides of the country so don't get upset when you don't provide all the pieces of your decision.

Also, what happens if you don't match and end up doing SOAP? That is always a possibility - happened to me. Are to going to be able to pack up and go where you can get a spot? Need to have that back up plan always.
 
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cabinbuilder

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It wasn't a shot. You did not mention the family portion of your equation, only geography. Plus your list covered both sides of the country so don't get upset when you don't provide all the pieces of your decision.

FWIW: I did med school/residency with 2 kids. I have no family and had no help other than husband/day care. Moved from Alaska to Penn to Texas to Montana to Colorado to Oregon with the kids for this whole journey. Sometimes you have to go where the training/job is. It's part of it. Heed JustPlainBill's advice, sometimes location does not trump training opportunities. My kids are well travelled and good students. The moving was not a detriment to them and they got exposed to a lot of opportunity along the way.
 

JustPlainBill

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Jan 5, 2007
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Thank you, that's very helpful advice. I appreciate it. We have family kind of spread throughout the southeast and that's why it's a little heavy around there as 3-4 hours of driving for in laws would work out well. Are the programs in Texas, Alaska, and Kansas that much better than the southeastern ones to consider them in light of this?
A few things:

1) I can't say anything about Alaska/Kansas -- anecdotally, I've heard that Alaska programs tend to produce solid, stand on your own type physicians since they're pretty much trained to work in the boonies where your only option at times may be a seaplane to the next biggest facility which may or may not have a surgeon/whateverspecialistyouneed;

2) Texas programs --- I liked UT Tyler, McLennan County (Waco) and have been told JPS is good but lacks adult supervision of the residents; Conroe was ok but the town was laid out very strangely -- half on one side of the highway (with clinic building) and the other half on the other side of the highway (with hospital) and no real "neighborhoods" to speak of -- you'd drive out in the woods and all of a sudden there'd be a new housing development. For me, I did an audition rotation there at the recommendation of an upper level I respected -- turns out it had changed since he was there -- wish I'd have done one at Tyler since that was my first choice if I was moving;

3) Help with the family --- consider that your residency class will bond (unless you get a dickhead like we had that was more interested in playing politics and grinding his own axe at the cost of his classmates -- he brownnosed hard enough to become chief and then did enough electives in "research" that he could have graduated with distinction in "research" --- means he stayed at home and read research articles and synthesized them --- and oh, by the way, he never did his second month of night float yet was still allowed to graduate) -- and the spouses will all bond and form a little self-help group -- you're all basically at the same stage in your career so it will happen if you live close enough. I was a half hour out and most of my classmates were foreigners with no children who matched because it was the only place they could match as IMGs from Pakistan/Afghanistan/Africa -- the others were DOs whose husbands were either residents in IM/ICU or had jobs teaching in the local community and they didn't want to move either --

4) Southwest Airlines -- you can hop cheap flights with no issues all over from DFW/Houston and be pretty much anywhere in CONUS in 6 hours.

5) I cannot emphasize enough that this is your one shot at training -- get the best you can as you won't get a second chance -- it is very difficult to walk into the office of a senior physician and ask them to mentor you and proctor you on your first elbow injection, shave biopsy, plantar fasciitis injection, toenail removal or whatever. Get the best IM training, ortho training, radiology training, Gyn training, Neuro training, Psych training that you can --- your kids will adapt and what matters is that they know Mommy and Daddy love each other and are there for them ---

6) Don't know that @cabinbuilder was taking a shot -- likely just a comment regarding taking a step back and looking at the grand scheme of things -- they likely didn't know the family side of the issues -- some of us here had family and let it influence our decisions, others factored it into the equation and made decisions that way ---- your mileage may vary, no warranties expressed or implied, car driven by a professional on a closed track, etc.

7) Good luck to you --- in the end, you have to do what works for you -- but be prepared deal with the consequences of your decisions for the rest of your career -- take it from someone who's been there, done that ---

Cheers
 
OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
13
2
Agree with my buddy above that you won't find what you want at Trident or Palmetto.
Look to the smaller programs...Greenwood (great if you're a conservative Christian, and not Catholic, not bitter at all lol I didn't get an interview). Don't know much about their procedural training. AnMed in Anderson is great too,more of what you're looking for.
We have outstanding procedural training at McLeod with a longitudinal ultrasound curriculum and hands-on training in most outpatient and inpatient procedures you could desire. Don't neglect the value of an open ICU to your training...MANY FM folks get shafted there...definitely not us.

Florence is a small town with great cost of living and good schools. Close to the beach, close to the mountains, has a small regional airport that routes through Charlotte. You can get anywhere from here rather quickly.

Also, the health system has won numerous national awards for clinical excellence. 24 HealthGrades awards just yesterday. I'm blessed and proud to train here.

Take a look.
McLeod Hospital – Florence | Residency Programs – Family Medicine
https://www.mcleodhealth.org/mrmc-florence/residency/mcleod-family-medicine-residency.html

McLeod Hospital | McLeod Health Hospital
https://www.mcleodhealth.org/?jtpl=7&lang=en




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Super helpful. Thank you. I've been checking out the websites and am pretty interested!
 
OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
13
2
A few things:

1) I can't say anything about Alaska/Kansas -- anecdotally, I've heard that Alaska programs tend to produce solid, stand on your own type physicians since they're pretty much trained to work in the boonies where your only option at times may be a seaplane to the next biggest facility which may or may not have a surgeon/whateverspecialistyouneed;

2) Texas programs --- I liked UT Tyler, McLennan County (Waco) and have been told JPS is good but lacks adult supervision of the residents; Conroe was ok but the town was laid out very strangely -- half on one side of the highway (with clinic building) and the other half on the other side of the highway (with hospital) and no real "neighborhoods" to speak of -- you'd drive out in the woods and all of a sudden there'd be a new housing development. For me, I did an audition rotation there at the recommendation of an upper level I respected -- turns out it had changed since he was there -- wish I'd have done one at Tyler since that was my first choice if I was moving;

3) Help with the family --- consider that your residency class will bond (unless you get a dickhead like we had that was more interested in playing politics and grinding his own axe at the cost of his classmates -- he brownnosed hard enough to become chief and then did enough electives in "research" that he could have graduated with distinction in "research" --- means he stayed at home and read research articles and synthesized them --- and oh, by the way, he never did his second month of night float yet was still allowed to graduate) -- and the spouses will all bond and form a little self-help group -- you're all basically at the same stage in your career so it will happen if you live close enough. I was a half hour out and most of my classmates were foreigners with no children who matched because it was the only place they could match as IMGs from Pakistan/Afghanistan/Africa -- the others were DOs whose husbands were either residents in IM/ICU or had jobs teaching in the local community and they didn't want to move either --

4) Southwest Airlines -- you can hop cheap flights with no issues all over from DFW/Houston and be pretty much anywhere in CONUS in 6 hours.

5) I cannot emphasize enough that this is your one shot at training -- get the best you can as you won't get a second chance -- it is very difficult to walk into the office of a senior physician and ask them to mentor you and proctor you on your first elbow injection, shave biopsy, plantar fasciitis injection, toenail removal or whatever. Get the best IM training, ortho training, radiology training, Gyn training, Neuro training, Psych training that you can --- your kids will adapt and what matters is that they know Mommy and Daddy love each other and are there for them ---

6) Don't know that @cabinbuilder was taking a shot -- likely just a comment regarding taking a step back and looking at the grand scheme of things -- they likely didn't know the family side of the issues -- some of us here had family and let it influence our decisions, others factored it into the equation and made decisions that way ---- your mileage may vary, no warranties expressed or implied, car driven by a professional on a closed track, etc.

7) Good luck to you --- in the end, you have to do what works for you -- but be prepared deal with the consequences of your decisions for the rest of your career -- take it from someone who's been there, done that ---

Cheers
Thank you. Really helpful
 
OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
13
2
Does anyone have any experience with the other programs on the list? Halifax, Kaiser programs, Scripps, UNC, Swedish, or Utah?
 
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VA Hopeful Dr

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Agree with my buddy above that you won't find what you want at Trident or Palmetto.
Look to the smaller programs...Greenwood (great if you're a conservative Christian, and not Catholic, not bitter at all lol I didn't get an interview). Don't know much about their procedural training. AnMed in Anderson is great too,more of what you're looking for.
We have outstanding procedural training at McLeod with a longitudinal ultrasound curriculum and hands-on training in most outpatient and inpatient procedures you could desire. Don't neglect the value of an open ICU to your training...MANY FM folks get shafted there...definitely not us.

Florence is a small town with great cost of living and good schools. Close to the beach, close to the mountains, has a small regional airport that routes through Charlotte. You can get anywhere from here rather quickly.

Also, the health system has won numerous national awards for clinical excellence. 24 HealthGrades awards just yesterday. I'm blessed and proud to train here.

Take a look.
McLeod Hospital – Florence | Residency Programs – Family Medicine
https://www.mcleodhealth.org/mrmc-florence/residency/mcleod-family-medicine-residency.html

McLeod Hospital | McLeod Health Hospital
https://www.mcleodhealth.org/?jtpl=7&lang=en




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Yeah, Greenwood is a very conservative, very family-oriented place. I think the training is good, but you won't learn c-sections or endoscopy there routinely like you McLeod folks do with your procedure months.

AnMed has the same benefits as McLeod (open ICU, NICU, large regional draw) but less on the procedure end. We have residents who have gone on to do things like c-sections, endoscopy, or pretty much any procedure family docs usually do - but it takes extra effort and no one can do it all. Plus, we're in the upper part of the state which is superior so there!
 

Back 5

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Seems like a question with an obvious answer, but how are we supposed to know what type of practice we want in the future, thus directing us to the type of training we want now?

I want the best training I can get; but I have absolutely no idea what style of practice I want going forward. Heck, I don't even know where I want to live yet (well, except, get out of SoCal, this place is way too busy).
 
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hallowmann

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Seems like a question with an obvious answer, but how are we supposed to know what type of practice we want in the future, thus directing us to the type of training we want now?

I want the best training I can get; but I have absolutely no idea what style of practice I want going forward. Heck, I don't even know where I want to live yet (well, except, get out of SoCal, this place is way too busy).
I'm aiming for well-rounded training, as well as a couple areas that I want to make sure are strong. Some people have a predisposition to OB, some to peds, some to sports, some to psych, so wherever you go, you're going to want a place that will have that strength, while at the same time has good broad training.

Now how to determine that from websites and interviews is beyond me. At some point, you have to trust what residents tell you and you have to trust what people on here say.

I don't think you have to know exactly what type of work setting you want to be in at this point, but it wouldn't hurt to give it some thought. You'll probably be asked on interviews.
 
OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
13
2
Yeah, Greenwood is a very conservative, very family-oriented place. I think the training is good, but you won't learn c-sections or endoscopy there routinely like you McLeod folks do with your procedure months.

AnMed has the same benefits as McLeod (open ICU, NICU, large regional draw) but less on the procedure end. We have residents who have gone on to do things like c-sections, endoscopy, or pretty much any procedure family docs usually do - but it takes extra effort and no one can do it all. Plus, we're in the upper part of the state which is superior so there!
Thank you. Super helpful! Would you be able to expand on what you mean by less on the procedure end? Like big operations (c-sections, etc.) or like colpo, derm, gyn stuff? Also what is the area/culture around Anmed like? Thank you for all the help!
 
Last edited:
OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
13
2
Seems like a question with an obvious answer, but how are we supposed to know what type of practice we want in the future, thus directing us to the type of training we want now?

I want the best training I can get; but I have absolutely no idea what style of practice I want going forward. Heck, I don't even know where I want to live yet (well, except, get out of SoCal, this place is way too busy).
Yeah I feel your pain. I think it's strange that in medicine we make a lot of life long decisions in short amounts of time. Good luck this year though!
 
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OP
L
Aug 30, 2016
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2
I liked AnMed a lot, and Anderson, but since I already had a house in the swampy Pee Dee it was easier to stay lol.

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McLeod sounds very interesting. Could you talk more about the procedures and stuff available to the residents? (more what the average residents will get before the graduate) Also I know we were talking about Self having a conservative/religious feel. Does McLeod have that at all?
 

primadonna22274

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We have a dedicated procedures month second year with extra elective time all years for procedures if you want it. In that month I did 25 colonoscopies, I think 30 or so EGDs with my attending. That's not nearly enough to be proficient--but if I wanted to do them after residency (I really don't) I could have been in the endoscopy lab 2 early mornings a week doing them with an attending. Not too difficult to get 100+ of both through residency to be proficient and later credentialed to do them elsewhere after residency.
In that month we also do a weekly procedures clinic which is anything from US-guided major joint injections to simple and more complex skin excisional biopsies, toenail removal, etc. We have combined colposcopy clinic with procedures clinic now.
In the ED, plenty of opportunity to repair lacs, reduce fractures and dislocations, and I&D abscesses. All of the ED attendings are used to working with us and we moonlight in the ED fast track starting PGY2, if you want to. I moonlight a LOT in the ED, freestanding urgent care and ~1 weekend a month as a rural hospitalist about 20 miles south of us. All of these experiences are available contracted moonlighting opportunities we have had in place for at least a few years and they love working with us and pay us well.
In the hospital, we do US-guided central lines (IJ mostly), thoracentesis, paracentesis. I did an anesthesia elective to pick up more intubations and LMAs. A friend did an Advanced OB month where she picked up more c-sections and complicated deliveries with the attendings. The opportunities are there if you want them.
As far as conservative religious feel, no, not really. Our hospital staff is incredibly diverse in ethnicity and religion and I like it that way. In my program, we have a mix of Christians with a few Catholics and Muslims and Baha'i faiths. Some agnostic and maybe even an atheist or two. We all get along and support and respect one another. We are a true American melting pot :)



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Sep 13, 2014
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Wichita, KS
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Hey there! I know it's been a few days since you posted. Just wanted to say that I am at the Kansas program mentioned above and really love it, great full spectrum residency, I can tell you about it if you are interested.
 
May 22, 2015
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How can you tell if a program is malignant/abusive or not? Do you think there were signs that you ignored or do they hide it well until you begin?
Geography is heavily dictating my rank list and applications, due to family and a job my spouse shouldn't leave (owner of a large company). I want to make sure I choose the best program for me while staying within my geographical range and looking for advice on how to spot "abusive" programs.
 

andrewsmack05

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I can't tell you how incredibly appreciative I am of this information! Thanks to everyone who has been contributing on this thread. I am also in the process of applying and found this thread very helpful. Thanks to the residents and the attendings for taking time to post on here, it has been terrific!