towellman

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and for those of us interested in Radiology it sucks! There doesn't seem to be any deferred spots at all!
download here
If I'm misinterpreting this someone please correct me.

Residency, Diagnostic Radiology 3-SAUSHEC; 1-DGMC 60 Jul-07
Residency, Radiology PG2 2-DGMC; 3- SAUSHEC 48 Jul-07
 

AF M4

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Yeah, I hope I'm misinterpreting the ER slots too:

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Somehow I don't think we are. Looking over the list, it looks like the AF either wants surgeons or family practice physicians. Coupled with the recent policy change that makes all unmatched candidates obligatory flight surgeons for 2 years, it looks like the plan is to turn all outgoing medical students into flight surgeons and have us burn up our active duty commitment and then scurry off to do our residencies.
 
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towellman

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That is what it seems. It really is stupid how two years ago they allocated 20 defferred positions to radiology and then none in the last 2 years. That way they get a bunch of people who are so-so on radiology one year and then exclude a bunch that really want to do it for the next two. Sure does change the application thinking when there are NO deferred spots available. No safe bets.
 
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towellman said:
That is what it seems. It really is stupid how two years ago they allocated 20 defferred positions to radiology and then none in the last 2 years. That way they get a bunch of people who are so-so on radiology one year and then exclude a bunch that really want to do it for the next two. Sure does change the application thinking when there are NO deferred spots available. No safe bets.
As you can see, your medical career (and specialty choice) is completely at the mercy of the needs of the military. This is what you signed up to do, but you did it at a time when by definition (pre-med) you had no idea what the practice of medicine was about, what your life would be like down the road, and what the trends in the military would be. As I have said before, for many specialties, the loans are nothing to worry about; but not being able to choose one's specialty, fellowships, location and type of practice (ie to ensure the right mix of patients, volume, environment, etc) is absolutely huge.

The radiology wannabee's in the AF are going to be out of luck for the next few years as per the current AF consultant to the Surgeon General. He says that with the huge numbers of deferrals over the past few years, they are going to be at about the right size with the addition of the active duty military slots.

So, all these applicants that can't do rads now will go out into the field as flight docs and reapply along with the other 25 or 30 applicants that didn't match, plus the ever increasing number of burned out FP docs that end up wanting to switch out of primary care due to the broken AF medical system. Thus, there is no guarantee to ever snag one of those scarce active duty slots. You should consider doing your 4 year payback and getting out ASAP so you can do the residency of your choice in the civilian world.
 
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towellman

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The problem is complicated by the chance that a decent chunk of the 4 preselect spots available will likely go to USUHS folks. Does anybody know what exactly the advantage for USUHS students is in applying for the JSGME match? I know they have to do an active duty residency, just not sure how much they are favored over the rest of us...
 

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towellman said:
The problem is complicated by the chance that a decent chunk of the 4 preselect spots available will likely go to USUHS folks. Does anybody know what exactly the advantage for USUHS students is in applying for the JSGME match? I know they have to do an active duty residency, just not sure how much they are favored over the rest of us...
USUHS students have to do a military INTERNSHIP. For the Air Force this year it was a rough year for USUHS students. There were several who wanted to do EM and only one got a slot. For the other competative specialties it seemed like less of the slots went to USUHS grads and more to HPSP. I don't believe that going to USUHS gives you an advantage in the match process. What the new AF policy looks like it will mean to USUHS grads is if you don't get pre-selected you will have to do an internship (lots of people who didn't match and are in surgery internships right now) and then go out as a FS. The USUHS folks won't want to, or it's not feasable to do a 7 year GMO tour so they reapply in a couple of years, finish their residency, and accrue more time owed to the military.

I'm not sure it that will be the case, but it sounds possible.
 

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Just a little FYI for all the Air Force HPSP. I am attending the SAM course and people that all "high up" on the board for GME came to talk to us today about assignments and applying for the board as Flight Surgeons. They said that everybody that does not get a categorical residency position (Whether preselected or getting a PGY1 position), will automatically become a GMO/Flight Surgeon for a minimum 2 years. In other words, if you don't get selected for residency training in December, you can't re-apply to the board for 2 years. Sorry to tell everybody, but they really need flight surgeons so they are not handing out many deferments for certain residencies. Just a little FYI, I know I didn't like being surprised by the board's decision but out of the current SAM class of ~75 people about 50 people applied for residency and did not get a position and therefore were defaulted to become flight surgeons. Good luck to everyone in the match, regardless.
 

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This post should be stickied!

I still amazes me how many people they can get to sign those scholarships when information like this is now fairly readily available.

Certainly probably one of the most important, if not the most, reason NOT to go into military medicine.

What I did, is put a link to this on the cons thread, so don't any one freak.
 

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As bitter as I was at first, I have grown to accept it and am determined to make the best of it. I was able to buy my first house. I love flying (I can't believe I get paid this much to do this). The GI Bill is going to be great during residency. I won't have 250,000 in loans like most of my classmates when I get out residency. I know the military system isn't perfect (And certain GME specialties, that will go nameless, absolutely suck for training), but nobody said you don't have to just do your 4 years and then leave. It could always be much worse. Make the best of it and the time will fly right by.
 

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Galo said:
This post should be stickied!

I still amazes me how many people they can get to sign those scholarships when information like this is now fairly readily available.

Certainly probably one of the most important, if not the most, reason NOT to go into military medicine.

What I did, is put a link to this on the cons thread, so don't any one freak.

i'll sticky this with a new title for the time being. i agree this is important for anyone considering the AF now.

--your friendly neighborhood aims middle mass, not high caveman
 

Galo

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Homunculus said:
i'll sticky this with a new title for the time being. i agree this is important for anyone considering the AF now.

--your friendly neighborhood aims middle mass, not high caveman

That is mightily unbiased of you, and I thank you for allowing potential recruits to see first hand what the possibilities for the beginning of their medical careers may be like.

Nice administrating.
 

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The main goal of the HPSP and military GME program is to fill the current needs of the US Military in such a way that that we are able to fly, fight and win against the adversities presented against our country. The role of the medic is to take care of our warfighters in a way that allows them to do their job of putting steel on target, rounds on targets, fixing vehicles/jets, procuring new weapon systems, making sure your monthly LES is accurate, and much more. Some years this requires mores Radiologists, sometimes mores Peds, sometimes more FP, sometimes more flight surgeons. If your particular flavor of medicine is not available when it comes time to enter active duty, then you might just not get that specialty. Remember, we are currently in a war, on essentially two different fronts. There just might be a need to support the war effort in fields that are needed the most. This should have been made clear before you signed your contract....however, your recruiter may have told you want you wanted to hear or you heard what you wanted to hear. Bottom line is that if you are a HPSP recipient you will be a US Military Officer in addition to a Health Care Provider (Physician, Dentist, Optometrist, Nurse, PT, Pharm.....). That is the lesson that so many new grads need to learn. You need to act like an officer and accept that there may be requirements/demands above your paygrade.

BK
 

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BKK said:
The main goal of the HPSP and military GME program is to fill the current needs of the US Military in such a way that that we are able to fly, fight and win against the adversities presented against our country. The role of the medic is to take care of our warfighters in a way that allows them to do their job of putting steel on target, rounds on targets, fixing vehicles/jets, procuring new weapon systems, making sure your monthly LES is accurate, and much more. Some years this requires mores Radiologists, sometimes mores Peds, sometimes more FP, sometimes more flight surgeons. If your particular flavor of medicine is not available when it comes time to enter active duty, then you might just not get that specialty. Remember, we are currently in a war, on essentially two different fronts. There just might be a need to support the war effort in fields that are needed the most. This should have been made clear before you signed your contract....however, your recruiter may have told you want you wanted to hear or you heard what you wanted to hear. Bottom line is that if you are a HPSP recipient you will be a US Military Officer in addition to a Health Care Provider (Physician, Dentist, Optometrist, Nurse, PT, Pharm.....). That is the lesson that so many new grads need to learn. You need to act like an officer and accept that there may be requirements/demands above your paygrade.

BK
well said.
key points:
1) HPSPers; be aware of what you may be getting into.
2) You ARE GOVM'T property first, a doctor second.
3) Your priorities and standards for providing care may well be different (and higher) than what your Commanders are.
4) despite the above, you ARE still responsible for the care of your patients.
5) The conflict above leads to the 'Conflicts"; physician frustration, separation, poor patient care.
 
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island doc

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sethco said:
Just a little FYI for all the Air Force HPSP. I am attending the SAM course and people that all "high up" on the board for GME came to talk to us today about assignments and applying for the board as Flight Surgeons. They said that everybody that does not get a categorical residency position (Whether preselected or getting a PGY1 position), will automatically become a GMO/Flight Surgeon for a minimum 2 years. In other words, if you don't get selected for residency training in December, you can't re-apply to the board for 2 years. Sorry to tell everybody, but they really need flight surgeons so they are not handing out many deferments for certain residencies. Just a little FYI, I know I didn't like being surprised by the board's decision but out of the current SAM class of ~75 people about 50 people applied for residency and did not get a position and therefore were defaulted to become flight surgeons. Good luck to everyone in the match, regardless.
What we are seeing here is a repeat of what we experienced back in the mid-1990s. This is exactly why I ended up spending four years as a GMO, before separating to complete a civilian residency. Looks like alot more will be following this same path again a decade later.
 

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towellman said:
and for those of us interested in Radiology it sucks! There doesn't seem to be any deferred spots at all!
download here
If I'm misinterpreting this someone please correct me.

Residency, Diagnostic Radiology 3-SAUSHEC; 1-DGMC 60 Jul-07
Residency, Radiology PG2 2-DGMC; 3- SAUSHEC 48 Jul-07
I have a buddy trying for Rads....he talked with Matthew Kush in San Antonio and was told don't even think about applying to civilian radiology programs....theren't aren't any deferred spots. Also, you should still apply for civilian TY/Prelim spots in case you don't match to rads but get a 1 year deferred spot. But that all depends on what you list on your 2nd choice paperwork....if you put FP as a second choice, then you don't need to worry about the TY/Prelim stuff. I guess I should be thankful I'm competing for 1 of those 10 gas spots. :eek:
 

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Question for the group:

If you are USAF HSPS are you required to do ERAS and NRMP? My understanding is that if you want FP and not something like Derm, or Rads you will probably get a categorical residency with the military through the JSGMESB. Also, I need the time towards retirement and would prefer a GMO tour over a civilian residency if that's what it comes down to. Thanks in advance.
 

st0rmin

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trattoria said:
Question for the group:

If you are USAF HSPS are you required to do ERAS and NRMP?
First off, it's HPSP (not HSPS), but that doesn't answer your question. The answer is, YES. You will fill out both the ERAS application and apply to civilian programs through the NRMP. If selected for a military residency you would then drop out of the NRMP. The military still requires you to apply through ERAS though. Good luck.
 

Galo

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To all those students even thinking about taking money in exchange for payback, read this!!! It was originally posted in the Avoid military medicine if possible thread, one that should also be read in its entirety!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

unbelievable thread below. When I was USAF active duty, they were actually listing FP docs as eligible for early outs (a few of us applied and were shot down by our Commander. Also, a good FP friend of mine was told by his detailer, the USAF would rather he separate than let him xfer to flight med. Now, less than one year latetr, this is what the SG has to say. Basically, this is all more evidence that senior USAF staff leadership has very little clue. Good luck for all of you just getting out of the USAF HPSP pipeline.


DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE
HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE
WASHINGTON DC
30 May 2006
MEMORANDUM FOR OBLIGATED AIR FORCE OFFICERS (4TH YEAR MEDICAL
STUDENTS) APPLYING TO THE 2006 JOINT SERVICE
GRADUATE MEDICAL EDUCATION SELECTION BOARD (JSGMESB)
FROM: HQ USAF/SG
1780 Air Force Pentagon
Washington, DC 20330-1780

SUBJECT: Critical Shortfall in AFMS Flight Surgeons - Interim Policy

The Air Force is facing a critical shortfall in aerospace medicine. We are having
difficulty meeting the operational needs of our war fighting squadrons. Flight Surgeons provide much of the first-line support to our flyers and their families. Active Duty physicians in specialties that are already optimally manned have been actively encouraged to consider a career broadening tour as an operational flight surgeon. In spite of our efforts the shortfall remains.

We will be re-instating a policy utilized in the mid 1990’s in order to ameliorate this
situation,. Under this policy, individuals who apply for and/or are selected for a PGY-1 year only will automatically be required to complete the six-week Aerospace Medicine Primary course and a two-year tour as a Flight Surgeon immediately following completion of their PGY-1 year. This policy will apply to individuals who meet the 2006 JSGMESB and is not waiverable. Individuals who are unable to pass a Flying Class II physical will be assigned to a primary care environment for a two-year period. This requirement must be completed before proceeding with the residency training of your choice.

This policy will be in effect for the current year only unless specifically extended. It will
not affect individuals who apply for and/or who are selected for a categorical residency program. It will not affect individuals applying for fellowship training. In order to obtain subsequent graduate medical training you will need to apply to a future JSGMESB. Successful completion of an operational tour almost always makes an otherwise well qualified candidate even more competitive. This often translates into a significant benefit when applying for highly competitive residency programs.

I regret having to institute these limitations, but providing operational support to the
ongoing war on terror is vital to the security of our nation and our beneficiaries. If you have any questions regarding this policy, my points of contact are Colonel Molly Hall Chief Physician Education Branch at DSN 665-2638, Commercial (210) 565-2638 or her deputy, Mrs. Geiger at 1800 531-5800, Commercial (210) 565-2638.
GEORGE PEACH TAYLOR, JR.
Lieutenant General, USAF, MC, CFS
Surgeon General
 

Galo

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Once again I have to post something for posterity.

Lets pretend you have gotten to where you have and are looking down the long tunnel to barely see the light of getting the hell out of what you now know or think was the worst career desicion you ever made, and all of the sudden you get a letter like this:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=314789

Once again, a MUST READ thread to those considering military medicine. MUST READ!!!!
 

james713

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Can anyone email me this JSGMESB 2006 Application, I'm trying to access it online and server seems to be down.


thanks,
 

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OK, question:

Seems like many in this year's class will be forced into GMO/FlightSrg positions. However, I have already been medically disqualified for flight. (Surprisingly, they elected not to force me to leave the service, only saying I couldn't fly and couldn't be deployed. Apparently the AF doesn't want to let a warm doc go...) So, what if I don't match to my first choice?

Just wonding if there was any insight in these trying times...
 

island doc

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OK, question:

Seems like many in this year's class will be forced into GMO/FlightSrg positions. However, I have already been medically disqualified for flight. (Surprisingly, they elected not to force me to leave the service, only saying I couldn't fly and couldn't be deployed. Apparently the AF doesn't want to let a warm doc go...) So, what if I don't match to my first choice?

Just wonding if there was any insight in these trying times...
Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. You're going to be a GMO my friend.
 

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OK, question:

Seems like many in this year's class will be forced into GMO/FlightSrg positions. However, I have already been medically disqualified for flight. (Surprisingly, they elected not to force me to leave the service, only saying I couldn't fly and couldn't be deployed. Apparently the AF doesn't want to let a warm doc go...) So, what if I don't match to my first choice?

Just wonding if there was any insight in these trying times...
Lots of clinic duty for you....fun, fun, fun:thumbdown:
 
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MedicalCorpse

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Apparently the AF doesn't want to let a warm doc go...) So, what if I don't match to my first choice?

Just wonding if there was any insight in these trying times...
Here's my insight, as a former LtCol USAF M.D.: prepare for a non-consensual, alternative approach Charlie Foxtrot sans traditional diminution of the coefficient of friction, and do not expect flowers or a phone call in the morning.

"A bove maiori discit arare minor"

--
R
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As the Zen master said: "Mu."
 

HumptyDumptyMil

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Well, I'm glad that this policy of forcing people to become FS is effective for only this year, as stated in the letter posted by Galo. Maybe by the time I apply for 2010, they will be a surplus of FS and this policy will be obsolete.
If not...well, as an officer of the USAF, I will fulfill my duty to my country, regardless of my personal opinions. The contract we sign clearly states that the AF requirements come before personal opinions and preferences. No surprise there. Why do some people make it sound like the military takes advantage of us? READ THE FINE PRINT!!

Oh wait....I can also work my butt off to be competitive for the residency spots. Why worry about not getting a residency, if you have the confidence in knowing that you are competitive enough for those precious slots? Just another reason to be a good student while in med school:idea:
 

MedicalCorpse

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If not...well, as an officer of the USAF, I will fulfill my duty to my country, regardless of my personal opinions. The contract we sign clearly states that the AF requirements come before personal opinions and preferences. No surprise there. Why do some people make it sound like the military takes advantage of us? READ THE FINE PRINT!!
Future Surgeon General of the Air Force material. We will see if his battle plan of "irrational exuberance", to quote ex-Fed chairman Greenspan, survives contact with the enemy, once he graduates from medical school, internship, residency (we hope), and spends 11 years as an active duty, board-certified attending as I did.

READ THE LARGE PRINT! Taking advantage of "us", per se, is not nearly as onerous and intolerable as taking advantage of our patients, who deserve 10 times better from the military "health care system" (vs. "medical care system" of yore). When you are forced to sign your name to a chart as the responsible staff, attending physician to ratify medical malpractice being committed on the person of your patient by a system which does not care about "standards of care", but rather "what looks best on an OPR", then come back to talk to me about the importance of your "personal opinions".
I would sacrifice my life for my country, but I'll be double dog d-mned if I sacrifice an innocent patient's life for the benefit of a broken institution.

Which is the primary reason why I could no longer remain a part of "us". Q.E.D.

P.S. The contract you signed is meaningless, if the military can arbitrarily, retroactively increase the amount of your Active Duty Service Commitment:
http://www.medicalcorpse.com/ADSCincreased.html

Pleasant dreams until you become staff. You will look back at your med school years as the best of times, I predict...

--
R
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USAFdoc

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READ THE LARGE PRINT! Taking advantage of "us", per se, is not nearly as onerous and intolerable as taking advantage of our patients, who deserve 10 times better from the military "health care system" (vs. "medical care system" of yore). When you are forced to sign your name to a chart as the responsible staff, attending physician to ratify medical malpractice being committed on the person of your patient by a system which does not care about "standards of care", but rather "what looks best on an OPR", then come back to talk to me about the importance of your "personal opinions".
I would sacrifice my life for my country, but I'll be double dog d-mned if I sacrifice an innocent patient's life for the benefit of a broken institution.

Which is the primary reason why I could no longer remain a part of "us". Q.E.D.]
the number 1 reason I left as well; I knew I might be placed in harms way. I knew I was government property.

I never imagined that my patients, especially dependents and retirees would be placed in harms way, and under my responsibility/liscense.:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
 

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I predict history will repeat itself and humpty dumpty will ultimately have a great reality check fall.
 

island doc

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I predict history will repeat itself and humpty dumpty will ultimately have a great reality check fall.
Humpty Dumpty will fall, and he had better hope that when that happens he is on leave near a civilian Level I Trauma Center that can put him back together again.
 

HumptyDumptyMil

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As always, I appreciate your concerns. I'm already commited, so I hope you all's quest will be successful with others. I will not be ashamed to come back and say you guys were right all along if that is what ends up happening. Till then, all of us can only wait and see;)
 

USAFdoc

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As always, I appreciate your concerns. I'm already commited, so I hope you all's quest will be successful with others. I will not be ashamed to come back and say you guys were right all along if that is what ends up happening. Till then, all of us can only wait and see;)

and I will be open to admit that the military has improved if and when it happens, and I hope it does so asap (on your "watch" humpty). The sooner the better.:thumbup:
 

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Oh wait....I can also work my butt off to be competitive for the residency spots. Why worry about not getting a residency, if you have the confidence in knowing that you are competitive enough for those precious slots? Just another reason to be a good student while in med school:idea:
I hope you are being sarcastic here. As a HPSP student you can be the number one grad from Harvard with a MD/PhD and you will still not be competetive vs anyone who has completed a GMO or flt med tour. The scoring system they use to pick candidates gives so many points to the GMO/Flt surgeons that you cannot compete.

The new Air Force surgeon general is a flight surgeon, so I don't see much of a change in the policy unless the flight surgeons get out of the positions of power.
 
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Hey guys, these might be a dumb questions, but everywhere else I go, I can't seem to find answers...

1. If there are spots for deferment for a civilian residency in a particular specialty, how can I improve my chances of getting that civilian deferment? Do you always have to rank the military residencies as your first choice?

2. The extended IFB results are available, but I can't find the original IFB results that was posted on their website about 2 months ago. Can anyone send them to me?

3. What about dual residency programs...ie Internal Med/EM? Is there absolutely no chance that the panel will allow those if they are only posting single residency programs in the IFB results?

Thanks,
M
 

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1. You can rank civilian spots as your top choices.

2. ...

3. The only dual program that the Air Force will approve is psych/family med, with the initial assignment in family medicine. No other dual programs will be approved.
 

deuist

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I hope you are being sarcastic here. As a HPSP student you can be the number one grad from Harvard with a MD/PhD and you will still not be competetive vs anyone who has completed a GMO or flt med tour. The scoring system they use to pick candidates gives so many points to the GMO/Flt surgeons that you cannot compete.

The new Air Force surgeon general is a flight surgeon, so I don't see much of a change in the policy unless the flight surgeons get out of the positions of power.
Medical students and GMO's are considered under different categories and are not pitted against each other. For medical students, the way to get a residency position is by acing the boards and churning out publications in peer-reviewed journals.

Of course the surgeon general is a flight surgeon. The only way to become a general in the Air Force is by being a pilot. All other specialties stop at colonel.
 

MeganRose

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Medical students and GMO's are considered under different categories and are not pitted against each other. .
When the IFB comes out there are a set number of slots. Those slots are awarded to whomever-- HPSP, Uniformed Services, GMO which in effect means that med students are competing for spots with GMO peeps.

Another cautionary tale for those who are considering AF HPSP-- things like EM, Ob-Gyn and even IM start to take on the level of competiveness typically found in things like Ortho or Derm in the real world esp when you factor in the increasing pool of GMOs/flight surgeons who re-enter the match with more points than the typical med student making it more likely that YOU the medical student will have to become a flight surgeon.
 

MeganRose

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Hey guys, these might be a dumb questions, but everywhere else I go, I can't seem to find answers...

1. If there are spots for deferment for a civilian residency in a particular specialty, how can I improve my chances of getting that civilian deferment? Do you always have to rank the military residencies as your first choice?

2. The extended IFB results are available, but I can't find the original IFB results that was posted on their website about 2 months ago. Can anyone send them to me?

3. What about dual residency programs...ie Internal Med/EM? Is there absolutely no chance that the panel will allow those if they are only posting single residency programs in the IFB results?

Thanks,
M
1. Beyond ranking deferred for your first choice, there's no real way to increase you chances of getting a deferment. Some posting here have tried to "game" the system (not doing any rotations at the millitary facilities) and still got picked up, others have played the game straight bydoing ADTs and still got selected. At any rate with decreasing avail spots I wouldn't make it your objective to get a civillian spot as much as just to get *a* spot at all.

2. Posted 14 Jul 2006

Training Number/Training Status/Location Length Start
Aeromedical Services
Residency, Aerospace Medicine PG2 8-Sponsored; (civilian/USAFSAM) 36 Jul-07
(includes 5 high cost MPH quotas)
Residency, Aerospace Medicine PG2 8-Sponsored; (civilian/USAFSAM) 24 Jul-07
Residency, Aerospace Medicine PG2 (AU) 5-Sponsored; (civilian/USAFSAM) 24/36 Jul-07
Residency, General Preventive Medicine PG2 3-USUHS; 2-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-07
Residency, Occupational Medicine PG2 2-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-07
Residency, Occupational Medicine PG2 (AU) 4-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Hyperbaric Medicine 2-USAFSAM 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Hyperbaric Medicine (AU) 1-USAFSAM 12 Jul-07

Allergy
Fellowship, Allergy-Immunology 2-SAUSHEC 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Allergy-Immunology (AU) 2-SAUSHEC 24 Jul-07

Anesthesia
Residency, Anesthesia (Preselect-Note 1 ) 5-SAUSHEC; 5-Def/Rdef 48 Jul-07
Residency, Anesthesia PG2 2-SAUSHEC; 4-Def/Rdef 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Cardio Vascular 1-Def/Rdef 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Critical Care 1-SAUSHEC 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Neuro 1-Def/Rdef 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, OB 1-Def/Rdef 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Pain Management 1-Def/Rdef 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Pediatric 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Regional 1-WRAMC 12 Jul-07

Dermatology
Residency, Dermatology PG2 (See note 4) 3-SAUSHEC; 1-Civilian Sponsored; 1 Rdef 36 Jul-08

Emergency Medicine
Residency, Emergency Medicine 8- SAUSHEC; 6- WP/WS 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Critical Care 1-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Toxicology (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-07

Family Medicine
Residency, Family Medicine 14-DGMC; 7-EB/Uneb; 7- Scott/St Eliz 36 Jul-07
8-Eglin; 40-Def/Rdef 36 Jul-07
Residency, Family Medicine (AU) 2-Ft Belvoir/Dewitt AMC 36 Jul-07
Residency, Family Medicine/ Flight Medicine ** 2-Eglin; 1- EB/Uneb; 1-Scott/St Eliz 36 Jul-07
Residency, Family Medicine PG2 (AU) 1 - DGMC; 1 Eglin; 1- Scott/St Eliz; 24/36 Jul-07
1- MGMC; 1-EB/Uneb
Fellowship, Faculty Development (AU) See Note 6 1-MAMC 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, OB 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, OB (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Sports Medicine 1-Civilian Sponsored; 1-DeWitt 12 Jul-07

General Surgery
Preliminary Year, General Surgery PG1 Only 8-WHMC/UTHSC; 4-WP/WS 12 Jul-07
4-DGMC, 4-Keesler 12 Jul-07
Residency, General Surgery ( 5 clinical years) 3-WP/WS; 4-Keesler; 16-Def/Rdef 60 Jul-07
Residency, General Surgery ( 5 clinical + 1 research year) 1-DGMC 72 Jul-07
Residency, General Surgery ( 5 clinical + 2 research years) 3-WHMC/UTHSC 84 Jul-07
Residency, General Surgery PG2 3-Def/Rdef 48 Jul-07
Research, General Surgery 1-DGMC, 1-Keesler; 1-WP/WS 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Colorectal 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-08
Fellowship, Critical Care 1-Civilian Sponsored; 1-Def/Rdef 12 Jul-08
Fellowship, Oncology 1-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-08
Fellowship, Plastic 1-Civilian Sponsored; 1 Def/Rdef 36 Jul-08
Fellowship, Thoracic Surgery 1-Keesler 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Trauma Critical Care 2-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-08

Internal Medicine
Internal Medicine PG1 Only 5-SAUSHEC 12 Jul-07
Internal Medicine PG1 Only (AU) 4-SAUSHEC 12 Jul-07
Residency, Internal Medicine 16-SAUSHEC;16-WPMC; 10-Keesler 36 Jul-07
10 Def/Rdef 36 Jul-07
Residency, Internal Medicine PG2 2-SAUSHEC;1-WPMC; 1-Keesler 24 Jul-07
Residency, Internal Medicine PG2 (AU) 1-SAUSHEC;1-WPMC; 1-Keesler 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Cardiology 3-SAUSHEC 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Cardiology Imaging (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Cardiology Interventional 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Endocrinology 2-SAUSHEC 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Gastroenterology 2-SAUSHEC; 1-Civilian Sponsored 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Gastroenterology 2-Civilian Sponsored 36 Jul-08
Fellowship, Gastroenterology Hepatology (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, IM General including MPH (see Note 6) 1-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Hematology/Oncology 2-SAUSHEC 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Infectious Disease 2-SAUSHEC 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Infectious Disease (AU) 1-SAUSHEC 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Nephrology 2-SAUSHEC 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Pulmonary/Critical Care Medicine 2-SAUSHEC; 2- Civilian Sponsored 36 Jul-07
1-Army; 1-Navy; 1-Def-Rdef 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Pulmonary Sleep Medicine 1-SAUSHEC 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Rheumatology 2-SAUSHEC 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Rheumatology (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-07

Neurology
Residency, Neurology (Preselect - Note 2) 2-SAUSHEC; 3-Def/Rdef 48 Jul-07
Fellowship, Neurophysiology (See Note 7) 1-Def/Rdef 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Neurophysiology (AU) (See Note 7) 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07

Neurological Surgery
Residency, Neurological Surgery 1-Def/Rdef 84 Jul-07
Residency, Neurological Surgery (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 84 Jul-07

OB/GYN
Residency, OB/GYN 3-SAUSHEC; 3-Keesler; 3-WP/WS 48 Jul-07
4-Def/Rdef 48 Jul-07
Fellowship, GYN Endocrinology 2-Civilian Sponsored 36 Jul-08
Fellowship, Urogynecology 1-Civilian Sponsored 36 Jul-08

Ophthalmology
Residency, Ophthalmology (Preselect see Note 1) 4-SAUSHEC; 4 Def/Rdef 48 Jul-07
Fellowship, Cornea & Refractive Surgery 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Cornea & Refractive Surgery 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-08
Fellowship, Oculoplastics 1-SAUSHEC 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Pathology 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Retina 1-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-08

Orthopaedic Surgery
Residency, Orthopaedic Surgery 4-SAUSHEC; 2-Civilian Sponsored; 20-Def/Rdef 60 Jul-07
Residency, Orthopaedic Surgery (AU) 2-Civilian Sponsored 60 Jul-07
Fellowship, Foot/Ankle 1-Def/Rdef 12 Jul-08
Fellowship, Hand 1-Def/Rdef 12 Jul-08
Fellowship, Sports Medicine 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-08
Fellowship, Trauma 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-08

Otolaryngology
Residency, Otolaryngology 2-SAUSHEC; 2-Civilian Sponsored; 2 Def/Rdef 60 Jul-07
Residency, Otolaryngology (AU) 2-Civilian Sponsored 60 Jul-07

Pathology
Residency, Pathology 1-Civilian Sponsored;2-SAUSHEC; 8 Def/Rdef 48 Jul-07
Residency, Pathology (AU) 4-Civilian Sponsored 48 Jul-07
Fellowship, Cytopathology 1-SAUSHEC 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Dermatopathology 1-Civilian Sponsored; 1 Def/Rdef 12 Jul-08
Fellowship, Forensic 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Forensic 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-08
Fellowship, Neuropathology (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Transfusion (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07

Pediatrics
Residency, Pediatrics 8-SAUSHEC; 8-WP/WS; 8-Keesler 36 Jul-07
1-WRAMC; 1- Portsmouth; 7 Def/Rdef 36 Jul-07
Residency, Pediatrics (AU) 1-PORTSMOUTH 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Critical Care 1-Civilian Sponsored 36 Jul-08
Fellowship, Developmental 1- MAMC 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Gastroenterology 1-USUHS 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Gastroenterology (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Hematology/Oncology 1-USUHS 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Neonatology 1-Civilian Sponsored; 2-SAUSHEC 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Neurology 1-USUHS 36 Jul-07
Fellowship, Neurology 1-Civilian Sponsored 36 Jul-08

Psychiatry
Residency, Psychiatry 6-SAUSHEC; 6 WP/WS; 4 Def/Rdef 48 Jul-07
Fellowship, Child & Adolescent Psychiatry 1-Civilian Sponsored; 1 Def/Rdef 24 Jul-07
Fellowship, Disaster & Preventive 1-USUHS 24 Jul-07

Radiology
Residency, Diagnostic Radiology (Preselect-Note 1) 3-SAUSHEC; 1-DGMC 60 Jul-07
Residency, Radiology PG2 2-DGMC; 3- SAUSHEC 48 Jul-07
Fellowship, Body Imaging 1 Def/Rdef 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Cardio Thoracic 1 Def/Rdef 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Interventional 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Musculoskeletal (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Neuro 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-08
Fellowship, Neuro (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-08
Fellowship, Nuclear Medicine 1-SAUSHEC 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Pediatric (AU) 1-Civilian Sponsored 12 Jul-07
Fellowship, Women's Health Imaging 1 Def/Rdef 12 Jul-07

Transitional Medicine
Transitional Medicine 7-SAUSHEC; 4-DGMC; 10- Def/Redef 12 Jul-07

Urology
Residency, Urology (Preselect-Note 3) 2-SAUSHEC; 3-Def/Rdef 72 Jul-07
Residency, Urology PG2 1-SAUSHEC 60 Jul-07
Fellowship, Urology Pediatric 1-Civilian Sponsored 24 Jul-08


Note 1: Includes a preliminary year in Internal Medicine, General Surgery or Transitional
Note 2: Includes a preliminary year in Internal Medicine.
Note 3: Includes a preliminary year in General Surgery
Note 4: Current medical students ineligible.
Note 5: Applicants must be board eligible in Internal Medicine
Note 6: Four(4) year consecutive obligation associated w/2 yr trng pgm
Note 7: Consultant deployment requires applicants to interview by 31 Aug 06


(AU) Approved unfunded, positions approved as an AF requirement, unfunded (Def/Rdef)
however, positions may be funded at the selection based on man-year availability.




Residency, Family Practice Flight Medicine (PG1)** Assignment into flight medicince after residency

Abbreviations:
USAFSAM - USAF School of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks AFB, TX
SAUSHEC - San Antonio Uniformed Services Health Education Consortium (WH/BAMC/UT)
DeWitt - DeWitt Army Medical Center
DGMC - David Grant Medical Center, Travis AFB, CA
WPMC - Wright Patterson Medical Center, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH
MGMC - Malcolm Grow Medical Center, Andrews AFB, MD
EB - Ehrling Bergquist Hospital, Offutt AFB, NE
BAMC - Brooke Army Medical Center, Ft Sam Houston, San Antonio, TX
WRAMC - Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Washington, D.C.
St Eliz - St Elizabeth's Hospital, Belleville, IL
UNeb - University of Nebraska, Omaha, NE
UTHSC - University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, TX
WS - Wright State University, Dayton, OH
MAMC - Madigan Army Medical Center, Fort Lewis WA


(sorry if it didn't cut and paste well)
3) I agree with previous response.
 

g293

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Medical students and GMO's are considered under different categories and are not pitted against each other. For medical students, the way to get a residency position is by acing the boards and churning out publications in peer-reviewed journals.

Of course the surgeon general is a flight surgeon. The only way to become a general in the Air Force is by being a pilot. All other specialties stop at colonel.
As pointed out above, medical students indeed do compete directly with people coming off of GMO or flt med tours. It's a point based system and GMO's and Flt Surgeons get more points for their experience than a med student can ever accrue. That's how people who wouldn't be competetive enough to get into a very selective specialty on the outside get into specialties in the military.

Many career fields other than pilots make general. The CIA director is a 3 star career intelligence officer, there are nurses that are generals, heck my medical wing commander is a one star dentist.
 

deuist

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As pointed out above, medical students indeed do compete directly with people coming off of GMO or flt med tours. It's a point based system and GMO's and Flt Surgeons get more points for their experience than a med student can ever accrue. That's how people who wouldn't be competetive enough to get into a very selective specialty on the outside get into specialties in the military.

Many career fields other than pilots make general. The CIA director is a 3 star career intelligence officer, there are nurses that are generals, heck my medical wing commander is a one star dentist.
Over the summer, the civilian contact for the Air Force's GME told us that medical students, residents, and attendings are all put in separate categories, meaning that a student who gets thirty points (a perfect score for a student) would get selected over an attending with a 35.

Thanks for the clarification about generals who are not pilots. Gen. Hayden was a good example, but I would imagine that all of the nurse generals have been flight nurses at one point. Further, does dentistry have a flight program similar to nursing and medical?
 

MeganRose

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Over the summer, the civilian contact for the Air Force's GME told us that medical students, residents, and attendings are all put in separate categories, meaning that a student who gets thirty points (a perfect score for a student) would get selected over an attending with a 35.

Thanks for the clarification about generals who are not pilots. Gen. Hayden was a good example, but I would imagine that all of the nurse generals have been flight nurses at one point. Further, does dentistry have a flight program similar to nursing and medical?
My understanding is that the point system is absolute, a 35 has a higher chance for selection than a 30, period. I have prior non-medical service and called Mr. Kush to inquire about how this would affect my points. Mr Kush (who is the deputy of Dyan Geiger, the civilian in charge of GME selection) said that prior service gives you more points, but didn't say anything about there being a seperate GMO vs. medical student pool. I have heard that medical students would likely be selected before attendings but only bc the AF is unlikely to pay for a residency for someone who has already completed one.
 

dpill

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Attached are the scoresheets used for JSGME- these are posted on the AFPC website (a little hard to find). Everyone is scored together and internship/ GMO gives you a lot of points, which is why a GMO will get selected over anyone straight out of medical school. You get 2 pts for prior active duty medical service and a whopping one point for prior active duty non-medical service. Research counts for a max of 3 points (again nothing when compared to the points given for internship/GMO). As for docs already residency trained in something different- a friend of mine (board certified family doc working in flight med) got picked up for an AF derm residency last year. Not sure exactly how that works, but being board certified in family medicine didn't count against her...
 

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Thanks for finding that Dpill, it should help clarify and answer some questions that alot of people seem to have around here.
 

deuist

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One reason that your friend might have gotten the derm spot is that medical students are not allowed to apply for derm (just as they aren't allowed to apply for RAM).
 

dpill

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One reason that your friend might have gotten the derm spot is that medical students are not allowed to apply for derm (just as they aren't allowed to apply for RAM).
Could be... I don't know how many GMOs applied when she did.
The following is the only other info I could find:

Second Residencies
Physicians applying for second residencies must be aware of the following requirements:
a. Applicants with more than 12 years total active federal military service creditable for retirement need to have enough retainability to complete training and the obligation associated with training.
b. Applicants should be in the grade of lieutenant colonel or below at the time of entry into training.
c. Applicants must not be in a payback period resulting from previous GME.
d. Applicants must be board certified in their initial specialty.
e. Applicant must have a minimum of 5 years practice experience his/her initial specialty before being considered for a second residency.
f. If any of the above conditions exist, please contact DPAME for guidance.
 

docpetey

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Let's say your rank list looks like this:

1. civilian defer (rad)
2. Military (rad)

Assuming that there is only 1 military location for training and many civilian defer spots, does ranking civilian first give you less points or look worse at the selection board?

In otherwords, does this look as though you're not committed to the AF and thus given less points in the "Potential to become a successful career officer" category?

If your goal is civilian defer as a 4th year HPSP, should you just go ahead and rank the list like this or put military first and assume that other GMO/FS will bump you down?
 

deuist

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Let's say your rank list looks like this:

1. civilian defer (rad)
2. Military (rad)

Assuming that there is only 1 military location for training and many civilian defer spots, does ranking civilian first give you less points or look worse at the selection board?

In otherwords, does this look as though you're not committed to the AF and thus given less points in the "Potential to become a successful career officer" category?

If your goal is civilian defer as a 4th year HPSP, should you just go ahead and rank the list like this or put military first and assume that other GMO/FS will bump you down?
Your "Potential" points are based upon rec letters. AFTER the points are tallied, the selection board will then look at your choices. For your second question, treat the military match like the civilian match: rank your choices in the order that you want to attend, regardless of what you think might happen.
 

mar8d

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Are there any numbers out there that show what percentage of applicants get their 1st and 2nd choices in the military match?

How about breaking it down by specialties - for example, what percentage of applicants who select peds will match in the JSGME, and what percentage gets shafted? I'm really surprised there isn't more information out there about this.
 

deuist

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Are there any numbers out there that show what percentage of applicants get their 1st and 2nd choices in the military match?

How about breaking it down by specialties - for example, what percentage of applicants who select peds will match in the JSGME, and what percentage gets shafted? I'm really surprised there isn't more information out there about this.
Go to this website and read everything: http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html. It states that:
The word is that 95% get their first choice and 98% get their first or second choice. I personally find these numbers very difficult to believe, and think 85 to 90% probably get their first choice. Some are likely deterred from applying for competitive residencies based on the number of spots available as well, distorting the percentages somewhat. In reality, very few medical students applying for residency have a "true" second choice, so the 98% above is almost irrelevant.
 
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