docmd2010

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Hey guys, not sure if you guys have been following my posts, but here's my concern

i'm prollly gonna end up at a d.o. school next year and i have absolutely no problem with the letters behind my name whatever they may be. i just want to be able to do residency in a respectable instituition of my choice. preferably i'd like to do surgery or radiation oncology. will i be able an allopathic residency? how tough will it be for me to get an allopathic residency being a do? i'd appreciate if you guys would break it down in terms of how hard it really is to get these residencies...itd be cool to see a nice discussion starting here.

an in no way, by any means, am i bashing do's. please do not misinterpret my words.
 

NinerNiner999

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Surgery should be no prob. Rad-Onc is highly competitive even for allopathic residents (I wouldn't count on that one). Go to school, study hard, and find out what you really want to do - odds are it will be something entirely different. Good luck.
 

EctopicFetus

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NinerNiner999 said:
Surgery should be no prob. Rad-Onc is highly competitive even for allopathic residents (I wouldn't count on that one). Go to school, study hard, and find out what you really want to do - odds are it will be something entirely different. Good luck.
Agreed 100% :thumbup: Chances are decent you will change what you want to do by the time the match rolls around.
 

Heme/Onc

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All you can do is the best that you can do. Remember, there are quite a few good osteopathic surgical residencies available out there.....go to the best program! If you are absolutely dead-set on rad onc than get started on research early with the intent of publishing something (perhaps see if you could take a year off and work at the NIH or something similar after your basic science years). Study very hard for the boards and be sure to take the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX. During clinical rotations shine and focus on getting great letters of rec, set up electives early at places that have a record of accepting DOs.
 

skypilot

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Most DOs do allopathic residencies so why would you be any different?

The ones who don't are either very interested in OMM or have some specialty like Derm in which they are more competitive as a DO than going allopathic.
 
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docmd2010

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thanks a lot for your responses guys...but don't allo residency programs discriminate against dos? would it be difficult to get a fellowship in surgery after my general surgery residency, say in oncological surgery or neurosurgery?
 

mosche

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docmd2010 said:
thanks a lot for your responses guys...but don't allo residency programs discriminate against dos? would it be difficult to get a fellowship in surgery after my general surgery residency, say in oncological surgery or neurosurgery?
Hey docmd2010! Just get into school and worry about fellowships when you're done with residency. I too thought that I was destined for a particular specialty -- pathology. That belief carried me through the first three years of medical school; then, at the end of third year, I fell in love with psychiatry. Who would've thunk it? My point is this: prior to medical school (prior to third year for that matter) our exposure to medicine is very cursory. So, it is likely that your plans/goals will change as you go through the training process.

Im at an allo. school, and YES there are programs/program directors/people in general who discriminate against DOs. So what! If you want to do surgery, follow the advise given above. Don't let other peoples ignorance (and in some cases stupidity) guide your life choices. Also, if you're accepted to a DO school thank your lucky stars that you have been given a chance to practice medicine period!

Finally, if you get into a DO or MD program, don't become one of the jerks that force these DO vs. MD issues to be revisited ad nauseum.

Good luck and best wishes,
mosche
 

dr_almondjoy_do

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I would add that the minute you enter medical school, start meeting with the surgery professors and the rad/onc professors, or at least find out who they are. Talk your way around and start getting some extra time in with them and what they do. Do your best in class, and when rotations roll around, try to make all rotations cater around surgery and rad/onc by spending extra time and showing extra interest in all the patients that are either pre- or post-op, and who are seeing oncologists. I would suggest you also join any clubs at your school that pertain to this, and join national organizations that are affiliated with your chosen field.

Please don't feel that your chances are shot because you might go to a D.O. school. You will soon see that you can match at any program you are qualified to join, and the only stopping you would be your grades, your boards, and your networking skills. This would be true even if you do enter an allopathic school.

Good luck to you!
 

mosche

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dr_almondjoy_do said:
I would add that the minute you enter medical school, start meeting with the surgery professors and the rad/onc professors, or at least find out who they are. Talk your way around and start getting some extra time in with them and what they do. Do your best in class, and when rotations roll around, try to make all rotations cater around surgery and rad/onc by spending extra time and showing extra interest in all the patients that are either pre- or post-op, and who are seeing oncologists. I would suggest you also join any clubs at your school that pertain to this, and join national organizations that are affiliated with your chosen field.

Please don't feel that your chances are shot because you might go to a D.O. school. You will soon see that you can match at any program you are qualified to join, and the only stopping you would be your grades, your boards, and your networking skills. This would be true even if you do enter an allopathic school.

Good luck to you!
Excellent advice!
 
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docmd2010

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dr_almondjoy_do said:
I would add that the minute you enter medical school, start meeting with the surgery professors and the rad/onc professors, or at least find out who they are. Talk your way around and start getting some extra time in with them and what they do. Do your best in class, and when rotations roll around, try to make all rotations cater around surgery and rad/onc by spending extra time and showing extra interest in all the patients that are either pre- or post-op, and who are seeing oncologists. I would suggest you also join any clubs at your school that pertain to this, and join national organizations that are affiliated with your chosen field.

Please don't feel that your chances are shot because you might go to a D.O. school. You will soon see that you can match at any program you are qualified to join, and the only stopping you would be your grades, your boards, and your networking skills. This would be true even if you do enter an allopathic school.

Good luck to you!
Thank you so much for your kind words. God i love this website
 

(nicedream)

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dr_almondjoy_do said:
You will soon see that you can match at any program you are qualified to join, and the only stopping you would be your grades, your boards, and your networking skills. This would be true even if you do enter an allopathic school.
That sounds great and all, but it's simply not true. There are programs that will not accept DOs regardless of anything else. Sometimes it's because of the specialty, sometimes it's because of the sponsoring institution.
Rad. Onc., other than perhaps plastic surgery, is without a doubt the most difficult specialty for DOs to match in. None have in the past 5 years - I don't know about before that.
Gen Surg is another field in which some of the ACGME programs still discriminate. There are DO programs, but the chances for subspecialization are minimized.

It is true, though, that your specialty choice will most likely change as you progress through your education and experiences.
 

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DO? I don't want an optometrist operating on me.

Sheesh. Get real.
 

chicamedica

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docmd210, you shouldn't be too worried. I agree 100% with those who said you'll most likely change your mind about what specialty you want during rotations. I go to med school at a big academic center, and i've had a great experience working with more than a few residents and attendings who happened to be DOs. EM seems to be pretty friendly to DOs, worked with one DO resident during surgery, a few DOs at top notch anesthesia programs, and many in family practice residency doing rotations like peds and ob/gyn. I truly have no idea about rad onc. I know very little about the field to begin with.

True, there is some discrimination in the residency process, but if the program isn't DO friendly, you prob wouldn't want to go there anyway and be ostracized. Depends on the particular program's tradition to some extent, i think.
 

mosche

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Panda Bear said:
DO? I don't want an optometrist operating on me.

Sheesh. Get real.
Careful Panda Bear, you'll start WWIII with those types of jokes!
 

mosche

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chicamedica said:
docmd210, you shouldn't be too worried. I agree 100% with those who said you'll most likely change your mind about what specialty you want during rotations. I go to med school at a big academic center, and i've had a great experience working with more than a few residents and attendings who happened to be DOs. EM seems to be pretty friendly to DOs, worked with one DO resident during surgery, a few DOs at top notch anesthesia programs, and many in family practice residency doing rotations like peds and ob/gyn. I truly have no idea about rad onc. I know very little about the field to begin with.

True, there is some discrimination in the residency process, but if the program isn't DO friendly, you prob wouldn't want to go there anyway and be ostracized. Depends on the particular program's tradition to some extent, i think.
It's good to hear the voice of reason! docmd2010, the advice seems to be two fold: 1) Give up and panic -- since you may get into DO school, or 2) Be thankful for the opportunity that you've been given, and worry about residency when you get there. One thing is for certain, if you don't get an MD or a DO degree then none of the other issues will even be considerations! So, go to DO school and do the best that you can do.

FOR THE RECORD, the competitive residencies are not even guarateed to MD students -- you have to be at the top of your class to even have a SHOT.
 

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mosche said:
It's good to hear the voice of reason! docmd2010, the advice seems to be two fold: 1) Give up and panic -- since you may get into DO school, or 2) Be thankful for the opportunity that you've been given, and worry about residency when you get there. One thing is for certain, if you don't get an MD or a DO degree then none of the other issues will even be considerations! So, go to DO school and do the best that you can do.

FOR THE RECORD, the competitive residencies are not even guarateed to MD students -- you have to be at the top of your class to even have a SHOT.
So thats why MGH orthopedic surgery never called me to interview.... oh I get it now :hardy: +pity+
 

mosche

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Poety said:
So thats why MGH orthopedic surgery never called me to interview.... oh I get it now :hardy: +pity+
I think that they called me -- I'm not sure. I heard giggleing onthe other end, and then something about "Prince Albert in a can"?
 

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docmd2010 said:
thanks a lot for your responses guys...but don't allo residency programs discriminate against dos? would it be difficult to get a fellowship in surgery after my general surgery residency, say in oncological surgery or neurosurgery?
Hi there,
Neurosurgery is a direct match. You do not go through General Surgery to become a neurosurgeon. Surgical Oncology is a fellowship after general surgery and your performance in residency will largely determine whether you can get into this fellowship. Good ABSITE scores and good performance in residency should get you into Surgical Oncology at a decent fellowship.

As for allopathic residencies discriminating against osteopathic students: I am sure that there are some out there but most do not. You can sent out your ERAS application and find out. If you do well in medical school, present a competitive application, you can probably match into a very good allopathic surgical residency. If you are marginal, it doesn't matter if you are DO or MD, surgery will be an uphill battle. Do well and you can determine your fate, MD or DO.

I don't care how great a residency location is, if they are discriminatory because of a couple of initials behind your name in 2005, then you don't want to be there in the first place. Chill out and study hard. MD or DO, medical school is difficult to do well.

nbjmd :)