Air Force HPSP

[KOM]

For those of you that were awarded the Health professions scholarship and have gone through AF residency, do you have any regrets and why?

Also, if there are any couples where both spouses have joined the Air Force, were they helpful in trying to keep you together. My husband will be joining as a dentist and I was thinking of joining as a D.O.

Thanks!

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[Perrotfish]

Have you read any other posts in this forum?

The AF people who post here have not had particularly happy experiences

 

[HumptyDumptyMil]

.

 

[HumptyDumptyMil]

welcome to the forum. Just wanted to tell you that make sure you hear both sides of the story. Overwhelming majority of people here have had negative experiences, but that does not mean EVERYONE is going to. I feel like most people who enjoyed their experiences stayed in the military and does not visit this forum. I personally have talked to AF docs that have enjoyed military medicine. I'm hoping that I will be one of them, and come back to this forum so new people can get both sides of the story at the same time. Am I being too optimistic about the situation?

 

[Perrotfish]

I've never met an AF doc. I have, however, met a lot of Navy docs, both current and previous, and the first time I ever heard anything negative about military medicine was on this board. That isn't to say that the people here are wrong (some of the stuff about GMO tours, finances, and Nurse Corps is worth knowing) but something is definitely skewed in terms of the opinions here.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I regret it for several reasons:

1) My clinical skills are atrophying by the day because I cannot do what I was trained to do in my current work environment
2) I came out ~ $180,000 behind by taking the scholarship
3) I was offered my very last choice as far as assignments and I have realized that it matters to me a great deal to be able to choose what part of the world I live in*
4) I will really miss my family while I am deployed*
5) I hate computer-based training
6) I hate spending an entire week doing "exercises" where I lay on the floor of a tent for hours on end wearing a gas mask while jets fly over my head
7) I hate being part of an organization that would let something like the military residency match continue to exist in its current form
8) I hate having to apologize to my friends for the medical care they received (or didn't receive) at my military treatment facility**
9) I hate the military pay system
10) I dislike working in a big HMO where there is no financial incentive to work
11) I dislike wearing a uniform (who knew?)*
12) I dislike working in a medical system where the care is completely free (and thus the patients feel entitled)**
13) I dislike having poorly trained assistants**
14) I dislike excessive bureaucracy**
15) I dislike not having more say in changes in my work environment*

*-I was aware of these possibilities when I signed up, but thought naively that they would not affect me as much as they do

**-not completely unique to the military, but markedly worse in the military than in my civilian experience

I like several things about the military:

1) It was nice to get a check every month in med school. I am very debt averse (probably too debt averse, see # 2 above)
2) I enjoy taking care of those willing to put country before self
3) I am proud to serve my country, even when I disagree with some of the things it does
4) It is much harder to sue me

 

[The White Coat Investor]

something is definitely skewed in terms of the opinions here.

Somewhat skewed? yes. Refreshingly honest? Definitely. By the way, at work I keep my mouth shut about the stuff I talk about here openly because it has repercussions on my deployments, my other assignments, and my workload. That may be part of the skew. The other part is simply that a forum like this attracts those who have had some of the worst experiences and are looking for an outlet.

 

[Perrotfish]

11) I dislike wearing a uniform (who knew?)*

This sort of thing is why every single person should be made to suffer through a Catholic school education.

The other part is simply that a forum like this attracts those who have had some of the worst experiences and are looking for an outlet.

That's pretty much what I meant. I tend to turn to the internet when I'm either 1) looking for advice, or 2) looking to rant. I think this means that internet forums in general, and professional forums like SDN in particular, tend to skew towards a negative opinion of whatever is being discussed.

 

[sethco]

This sort of thing is why every single person should be made to suffer through a Catholic school education.

Yes, evens Jewish people and muslims. I think that would go over real well

 

[sethco]

For those of you that were awarded the Health professions scholarship and have gone through AF residency, do you have any regrets and why?

Also, if there are any couples where both spouses have joined the Air Force, were they helpful in trying to keep you together. My husband will be joining as a dentist and I was thinking of joining as a D.O.

Thanks!

If you are looking to opinions from this site from AF folks, it is important to take what they say in the context of where they are in their medical careers. For example a first or second year medical student is going to be extremely happy with their decision, while the attendings would most likely be on the other end of the spectrum.

Although, most people do use the internet to complain and happy people would probably be steered away from this site, it is also important to realize that this website allows people to complain without fear of reprecussions.

As for the answer, I am probably 80-90% sure I would not choose to sign the HPSP contract if I can do it all over again. So far, the negatives have far outweighed the positives. It was nice while I was in med school, but it not fun to see all of my med school friends complete their residencies while I am "spinning my wheels" out here in GMO land.

On a more serious note...Is 3 years too early to start the countdown to separation?

 

[73BARMYPgsp]

Although, most people do use the internet to complain and happy people would probably be steered away from this site, it is also important to realize that this website allows people to complain without fear of reprecussions.

This is why I rarely post here anymore. I am a "happy person" who has better things to do than complain all the time (Or read other people doing it).

 

[Ex-44E3A]

Is 3 years too early to start the countdown to separation?

Nope! Have somebody send you the "donut of misery" that we all kept on our computers out in the desert. It's an Excel file where you input all your deployment dates and information, and it gives you a visual reference of where you are in your deployment.

Beware... it may produce suicidal ideation.

I don't know if it will allow you to input a 3yr interval, but it's worth a shot... google for it, I'm sure you can download it somewhere (I don't have it anymore, or I'd happily send you a copy)

 

[DiveMD]

As for the answer, I am probably 80-90% sure I would not choose to sign the HPSP contract if I can do it all over again.

Just 80 to 90% sure? What about a 100%!

On a more serious note...Is 3 years too early to start the countdown to separation?

No, it is totally appropriate. Get yourself some nice calendars or use your computer outlook program. Also, you might want to consider drafting your separation letter 2.5 years in advance and placing it under your pillow. You might sleep better....

 

[Ex-44E3A]

Also, you might want to consider drafting your separation letter 2.5 years in advance and placing it under your pillow.

Absolutely!

You can begin the separation process 180 days before your separation date... so mark your calender and start early (your 4-5pg outprocessing checklist may take that long to complete).

 

[g293]

I've never met an AF doc. I have, however, met a lot of Navy docs, both current and previous, and the first time I ever heard anything negative about military medicine was on this board. That isn't to say that the people here are wrong (some of the stuff about GMO tours, finances, and Nurse Corps is worth knowing) but something is definitely skewed in terms of the opinions here.

I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, but I wonder if the physician retention rates in the Navy are much different than the AF. The number of AF physicians that stay in past their initial commitment is increadibly low. If all those Navy docs are so positive, is their retention rate of docs eligible to get out any better? Maybe I'm wrong, but I view retention as the number one indicator of how great military practice is--if it were really great, they'd retain most people. I don't see that happening now (in the AF at least), mostly for the reasons listed above in ActivedutyMD's post.

 

[jfitzpat]

I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, but I wonder if the physician retention rates in the Navy are much different than the AF. The number of AF physicians that stay in past their initial commitment is increadibly low. If all those Navy docs are so positive, is their retention rate of docs eligible to get out any better? Maybe I'm wrong, but I view retention as the number one indicator of how great military practice is--if it were really great, they'd retain most people. I don't see that happening now (in the AF at least), mostly for the reasons listed above in ActivedutyMD's post.

I'm just a student (a dental one), but I don't think it cuts so finely. I think you can like the military, but still want to move on with life. I have a couple of friends getting out of JAG that really enjoyed their time in the Navy, but they just want to move onto a to something different.

 

[BomberDoc]

Absolutely!

You can begin the separation process 180 days before your separation date... so mark your calender and start early (your 4-5pg outprocessing checklist may take that long to complete).

I started mine over a year out. 355 days and counting... tick tick tick

 

[almostfamous]

For those of you that were awarded the Health professions scholarship and have gone through AF residency, do you have any regrets and why?

Also, if there are any couples where both spouses have joined the Air Force, were they helpful in trying to keep you together. My husband will be joining as a dentist and I was thinking of joining as a D.O.

Thanks!

oh yikes.
the military is NOT the thing to put into the already stressful combination of graduate school (let alone 2 schools) and a marriage. co-location is always 'considered', but they don't actually have to do it. it's been very tough for the few couples that i know have done that (all MC, not mixed DC/NC/MSC), but none of them were AF.

 

[almostfamous]

Absolutely!

You can begin the separation process 180 days before your separation date... so mark your calender and start early (your 4-5pg outprocessing checklist may take that long to complete).

i thought i heard that there are some things that need to be started about a year out. having a brain cramp right now and cant think of them.

 

[sethco]

Also, you might want to consider drafting your separation letter 2.5 years in advance and placing it under your pillow. You might sleep better....

Oh ****, I better get started

 

[sethco]

Nope! Have somebody send you the "donut of misery" that we all kept on our computers out in the desert. It's an Excel file where you input all your deployment dates and information, and it gives you a visual reference of where you are in your deployment.

Beware... it may produce suicidal ideation.

I don't know if it will allow you to input a 3yr interval, but it's worth a shot... google for it, I'm sure you can download it somewhere (I don't have it anymore, or I'd happily send you a copy)

OK, seriously, I wish I knew whether you were joking or serious

 

[almostfamous]

Nope! Have somebody send you the "donut of misery" that we all kept on our computers out in the desert. It's an Excel file where you input all your deployment dates and information, and it gives you a visual reference of where you are in your deployment.

Beware... it may produce suicidal ideation.

I don't know if it will allow you to input a 3yr interval, but it's worth a shot... google for it, I'm sure you can download it somewhere (I don't have it anymore, or I'd happily send you a copy)

http://toby.richards.net/donut/donut.xls

 

[Ex-44E3A]

OK, seriously, I wish I knew whether you were joking or serious

Dead serious... check out almostfamous's link. The "donut of misery" is well-known to almost anybody who has deployed, or done a remote.

 

[deuist]

That donut is awesome. I'm going to use it as a countdown for my surgical clerkship.

 

[BomberDoc]

Last week I got the, "You're doing such a great job, I hope you'll stay in past your commitment" speech from one of the management weenies. This from the same guy who got pissed when he saw the donut of misery prominently displayed on my computer. He probably has one counting down until his retirement date when he can collect that pension that he earned by climbing over the bodies of his subordinates, crushing all opposition, and upholding the status quo of mediocrity and poor patient care in favor of metrics and hollow OPR bullets.

 

[sethco]

http://toby.richards.net/donut/donut.xls

That is great!!! I know more than a lot of other Flight Surgeons the would like to have this close by.

 

[deuist]

That donut is the most useful reply this thread has seen in a while.

 

[Ex-44E3A]

That donut is the most useful reply this thread has seen in a while.

My pleasure... happy to be of service.

 

[KOM]

Thanks for all the replies. My wife decided she wasn't going to join for a lot of reasons. One being that she speaks Arabic and in today's world, I would imagine that just might guarantee her deployment into a less than friendly environment.

 

[BomberDoc]

My wife decided she wasn't going to join for a lot of reasons.

Count that as another win for common sense and the power of these boards to spread truth.