ALL Carib Schools-Post official Match lists!!

[relaxedMD]

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Current Carib Students: Encourage your institution to follow SGU and construct a Match list that is accessible to the public. If students that currently attend carib schools want some credibility behind their CVs, they should urge their administrations to post an official Match list so that everyone may observe the strength of their teaching programs.

IMO, prospective students deciding to attend said school can not make a completely informed decision without seeing the graduate outcomes.

I perused ValueMD and only found one official Match List, belongs to SGU. Please post others here so that all prospective carib grads can decide intelligently.

rlxdmd

 

[RickRoss]

Ross
http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/files/2009ResidencyList.pdf

 

[arashd]

Ross
http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/files/2009ResidencyList.pdf

University of Rochester NeuroSurgery!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW Bravo to that dude or dudette!

 

[TMZ2007]

Saba: http://www.saba.edu/forms/match2009_byspec.pdf
AUC: http://www.aucmed.edu/alumni/residency-appointments.html

 

[Boges]

ENT at University of Maryland at AUC. Nice work.

 

[Scylin]

Derm at Loyola University for SABA. Congrats.

 

[DrDre2001]

Is there any way to know how many students just didnt match at all?

 

[dtwalrus]

Generally, no, there's no definite number that ever comes out. Clearly the schools aren't going to volunteer that info as it's bad for business.

A few months from now the numbers of graduates -- which is different from the entrance numbers and even different from what most people believe to be their class size -- will come out. You can then compare graduate numbers with match numbers.

However, it's less straight forward than this because a significant number of Caribbean students sign outside the match and are thus never listed on match statistics. So the equation looks something like this:
Graduates - (Matches + Prematches) = Unmatched.
Of course, since you don't have a solid number for prematches, unmatched = mystery.

Bottom line, though, even at the big 4, a very significant number of students will not match. At SGU it's probably in the 15-35% range with most of the unmatched being FMGs with visa issues or folks who've failed the steps. US citizens tend to end up matching in teh 85-90% range.

And then, of course, further complicating the math, there are many students who will not match because they do not make it through the program. Attrition is very much a reality down here. So maybe the real equation is:
Entrants - (Matches + Prematches) = Unmatched.

 

[amakhosidlo]

Generally, no, there's no definite number that ever comes out. Clearly the schools aren't going to volunteer that info as it's bad for business.

A few months from now the numbers of graduates -- which is different from the entrance numbers and even different from what most people believe to be their class size -- will come out. You can then compare graduate numbers with match numbers.

However, it's less straight forward than this because a significant number of Caribbean students sign outside the match and are thus never listed on match statistics. So the equation looks something like this:
Graduates - (Matches + Prematches) = Unmatched.
Of course, since you don't have a solid number for prematches, unmatched = mystery.

Bottom line, though, even at the big 4, a very significant number of students will not match. At SGU it's probably in the 15-35% range with most of the unmatched being FMGs with visa issues or folks who've failed the steps. US citizens tend to end up matching in teh 85-90% range.

And then, of course, further complicating the math, there are many students who will not match because they do not make it through the program. Attrition is very much a reality down here. So maybe the real equation is:
Entrants - (Matches + Prematches) = Unmatched.

K. So wait, for US citizens with no academic 'issues' who weren't entirely unrealistic in the fields they applied to, who weren't socially/mentally deficient, is matching into IM/FM/Neuro/Psych a reasonable expectation?

Who aside from the "I can't deal with this place/these people" drop-outs, what type of people end up leaving? In other words is there any way to get a decent idea of whether you have what it takes or not OTHER than putting up like $30k?

 

[dragonfly99]

amik,
I never attended a Caribbean med school, but I think if someone has a weak MCAT score, like less than high 20's or so, then more likely to have problems because you have to pass the USMLE exams and they are difficult standardized exams. That is just my 2 cents.

Also, if you had a low undergrad GPA due to not being able to absorb a lot of material, or have poor study skills leading to a low GPA, or not a good work ethic, then unlikely things will be different in med school unless YOU really change.

On the other hand, someone who just had a run of bad luck, or barely missed med school admission in the US (i.e. 3.5 GPA, 29 MCAT, some volunteer work but just didn't quite make the cut for the US), probably would do better. I'm interested in seeing what Carib students have to say, though.

 

[tracheatoedoc]

Generally, no, there's no definite number that ever comes out. Clearly the schools aren't going to volunteer that info as it's bad for business.

A few months from now the numbers of graduates -- which is different from the entrance numbers and even different from what most people believe to be their class size -- will come out. You can then compare graduate numbers with match numbers.

However, it's less straight forward than this because a significant number of Caribbean students sign outside the match and are thus never listed on match statistics. So the equation looks something like this:
Graduates - (Matches + Prematches) = Unmatched.
Of course, since you don't have a solid number for prematches, unmatched = mystery.

Bottom line, though, even at the big 4, a very significant number of students will not match. At SGU it's probably in the 15-35% range with most of the unmatched being FMGs with visa issues or folks who've failed the steps. US citizens tend to end up matching in teh 85-90% range.

And then, of course, further complicating the math, there are many students who will not match because they do not make it through the program. Attrition is very much a reality down here. So maybe the real equation is:
Entrants - (Matches + Prematches) = Unmatched.

The schools only know of the students who match. Many students do clinicals at a place and prematch there. I wasn't in the match, went to one interview and signed up. In fact I don't think any of my close friends were in the match, they all prematched or scrambled. AUC probably doesn't have any idea what happened to any of us. So AUC can't put out any credible data. They could say that they awarded x number of degrees in a certain year and y number matched. Let me say that I am unaware of any student from my class who failed to obtain a residency. I know of 1 student who somehow failed to complete clinicals after passing the USMLE1. Any numbers you make up are meaningless, Walrus. I would say that any student who completes an MD at the big 4 and passes the Boards can at the very least become an FP resident.

 

[dragonfly99]

but trachea,
Shouldn't AUC (and these other schools) WANT to collect the info on all these students, if they all really matched. I mean, it would make it easier for them to recruit new med students, would it not? I don't disbelieve that a lot of the students @these top Caribbean schools do match, I just think the schools should do a better job of collecting the data.

I'll be a lot of the people who flunk out do so in the 1st two years, and/or because they can't pass the USMLE Step 1. If someone can pass the USMLE's and is hard working, the vast majority should be able to pass clinical rotations and get a residency...

 

[RussianJoo]

amik,
I never attended a Caribbean med school, but I think if someone has a weak MCAT score, like less than high 20's or so, then more likely to have problems because you have to pass the USMLE exams and they are difficult standardized exams. That is just my 2 cents.

Also, if you had a low undergrad GPA due to not being able to absorb a lot of material, or have poor study skills leading to a low GPA, or not a good work ethic, then unlikely things will be different in med school unless YOU really change.

On the other hand, someone who just had a run of bad luck, or barely missed med school admission in the US (i.e. 3.5 GPA, 29 MCAT, some volunteer work but just didn't quite make the cut for the US), probably would do better. I'm interested in seeing what Carib students have to say, though.

i had low 20's on the mcat and a gpa below 3.0 and got a 95 on step1 so i guess there are exceptions to those stats.

 

[RussianJoo]

but trachea,
Shouldn't AUC (and these other schools) WANT to collect the info on all these students, if they all really matched. I mean, it would make it easier for them to recruit new med students, would it not? I don't disbelieve that a lot of the students @these top Caribbean schools do match, I just think the schools should do a better job of collecting the data.

I'll be a lot of the people who flunk out do so in the 1st two years, and/or because they can't pass the USMLE Step 1. If someone can pass the USMLE's and is hard working, the vast majority should be able to pass clinical rotations and get a residency...

in addition to buying the matched list from the NRMP, SGU sends out a survey to all their grads asking them to tell them where they matched. not everyone fills those out, or if they do they can check off a box saying they don't want that info shown on the schools website, since our school lists the first and last names of the people and where they matched. so if they check off the box sgu doesn't list them on their website..

also sgu sent out an email to the students a few weeks ago saying that they called up NRMP and asked to get their match rates calculated and they were somewhere around 75%, a good number prematch but a good number don't match. not matching is always a possibility when attending a foreign school in fact it's a possibility when attending a US school too. there's no such thing as a sure thing when it comes to the match.

 

[RussianJoo]

here's the email i found it in my trash bin.

Rumors have been circulating about a "low" match rate for SGU seniors this year. This situation needs to be addressed and clarified.

Calculating the number of our graduating seniors who start residency programs is complex. Many seniors sign up for a residency program pre-match, many sign post-match (the "Scramble') and most sign through the National Residency Matching Program (NRMP). Those who sign outside of the match are not listed in any central register; we find out about these when we send questionnaires to each individual student immediately following the MATCH and again at graduation. Some seniors do not choose to do a residency in the US at all. Some non-US citizens decide to return to their native country. Some US graduates postpone doing a residency for a year. For non-US citizens visa issues may complicate applications for post-graduate training.

In other words, any number that we have now regarding final year medical students who have sought and secured a residency to start July 2009 is a temporary number. This number will increase with time and has to be interpreted with all of the above variables in mind.

Having said that, there are some hard numbers that can be presented. To put a discussion of our SGU match rate into perspective, we need to compare our numbers with data that the NRMP publishes on their web-site. ( http://www.nrmp.org/data/advancedatatables2009.pdf and look at Table 4). We summarize below the 2009 match rate for US citizens in the different groups.

Seniors of US Medical Schools 93.1%

Previous Graduates of US Medical Schools 44.6%

Students/ Graduates of DO Schools 69.9%

Students/ Graduates of Canadian Medical Schools 71.4%

Students/Graduates of Fifth Pathway Programs 61.3%

US Citizens Students/Graduates of International Medical Schools* 47.8%

*We subtracted SGU applicants who matched from this group. The calculated match rate for US citizens from all international medical schools (minus
SGU) decreased to 44%.

The NRMP does not publish data on each individual international medical school. However, we did ask them to calculate the SGU match rate for our US citizen 2009 graduates. They responded to us and stated that "74.5% matched to a first year position and your overall match rate is 80.1%." (The "overall" included those that matched to a PGY-2 position, e.g. neurology but not a preliminary PGY-1.)

These comparisons support the position of SGU as a premier medical school.
In examining this year's match an impressive fact emerges; many of our seniors have been accepted at outstanding and competitive residency programs. This paints an exciting and positive picture for the future of the graduating class of 2009.

We remain concerned about those seniors, US citizens and non-US citizens, who do not yet have a residency program. The Office of Career Guidance and Student Development is working aggressively and positively with those certified graduating seniors who want a residency and who have scrambled to get one or who are trying to sign outside of the MATCH, which a number of our graduating students have done already. A retrospective review of the
2007 and 2008 graduating classes showed that an additional 10-15% of qualified graduating seniors signed post-match and approximately another 5% started a residency a year later.

We should be able to present a more accurate picture of this year's
graduating class when the residency year begins on or about July 1. We
have had a strong start. Please see the list of those who MATCHED; in addition, we are continually updating those who signed outside of the MATCH as we get information at:
https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2009/Re...=PGY1&Count=-1

 

[RussianJoo]

So there you go SGU is honest with their students. Although this might not be used to advertise the school, at least they don't sugar coat stuff. Also many agree that SGU is the best carib med school because of their clinical sites and some studies have shown SGU's first time USMLE pass rate to be significantly higher than other schools. So if SGU matches at a rate of 75 to 80% i can only imagine what the % match rate at other smaller, newer schools is. I would have to take a guess and say that Ross's, AUC's and SABA's match rates are very equal if not slightly less than SGU's but in no way are they higher.

SGU is honest with their data are other schools this honest? please post any emails you guys got from your deans in regards to the match.

 

[RussianJoo]

and here is what the ECFMG had to say about the 2009 match :

The ECFMG(r) Reporter

An E-Newsletter for International Medical Graduates Pursuing Graduate
Medical Education in the United States

Issue 137 - April 2, 2009


**********************************************


IN THIS ISSUE:

- 2009 MATCH PERFORMANCE -- NUMBER OF IMGS MATCHING INCREASES


**********************************************

2009 MATCH PERFORMANCE -- NUMBER OF IMGS MATCHING INCREASES

For the seventh consecutive year, the number of first-year (PGY-1)
residency positions offered through the Match increased. A total of
22,427 first-year positions were offered in the 2009 Match, held last
month. This represents an increase of 187 positions compared to last
year and an increase of 1,825 positions since 2002.

The number of IMGs, including Fifth Pathway participants, who matched to
first-year positions increased by 98 compared to 2008. Of the 10,980
IMGs who participated in the 2009 Match, 4,796 (43.7%) matched. In the
2008 Match, 4,698 (45.2%) IMGs were matched to first-year positions.

There was an increase in the number of matches for U.S. citizen IMGs,
IMGs who are citizens of other countries, and Fifth Pathway
participants.

Of the 7,484 IMG participants who were not U.S. citizens, 3,112 (41.6%)
obtained first-year positions. The number of non-U.S. citizen IMGs who
obtained positions in 2009 increased by 4 compared to last year.

Of the 3,390 U.S. citizen IMG participants, 1,619 (47.8%) were matched
to first-year positions, an increase of 78 over last year. This is the
sixth consecutive year that there has been an increase in the number of
U.S. citizen IMGs matching to first-year positions.

Of the 106 Fifth Pathway participants in the Match, 65 (61.3%) were
matched to first-year positions, an increase of 16 over last year. This
is the third consecutive year that there has been an increase in the
number of Fifth Pathway participants matching to first-year positions.

It is important to note that the total number of IMGs, including Fifth
Pathway participants, who will fill PGY-1 positions for the 2009-2010
academic year will be higher than the number obtaining positions through
the 2009 Match. Although the majority of PGY-1 positions in the United
States are filled through the Match, a significant number of IMG
applicants obtain positions outside of the Match. For example, while
4,563 IMGs obtained PGY-1 positions through the 2007 Match, 7,225 IMGs
entered PGY-1 for the 2007-2008 academic year.

The 7,225 IMGs entering PGY-1 for the 2007-2008 academic year is an
increase of 306 over the prior year and an increase of 1,152 since the
2002-2003 academic year.


ABOUT THE MATCH

The annual NRMP Match is the system by which applicants are matched with
available residency positions in U.S. programs of graduate medical
education (GME). Participants submit to the NRMP a list of residency
programs, in order of preference. Ranked lists of preferred residency
candidates are likewise submitted by U.S. GME programs with available
positions. The matching of applicants to available positions is
performed by computer algorithm. The Match results announced in March of
each year are typically for GME programs beginning the following July.


ADDITIONAL RESOURCES ON THE MATCH AND MATCH RESULTS

The preceding data are taken from the Advance Data Tables for the 2009
Main Residency Match compiled by the NRMP. These tables provide detailed
information on the positions offered and filled by the Match in 2009 and
prior years. To access these tables, or to obtain further information on
the NRMP, visit www.nrmp.org.

The June issue of Academic Medicine, the journal of the Association of
American Medical Colleges, usually offers an analysis of Match results
from the preceding March. For more information, visit your medical
school's library or www.academicmedicine.org.

The September issue of JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical
Association traditionally provides an in-depth analysis of graduate
medical education in the United States. This analysis includes the
number of IMGs entering and continuing in U.S. GME programs and a
breakdown of IMG resident physicians by specialty and subspecialty.
Visit your medical school's library or http://jama.ama-assn.org.

 

[tracheatoedoc]

but trachea,
Shouldn't AUC (and these other schools) WANT to collect the info on all these students, if they all really matched. I mean, it would make it easier for them to recruit new med students, would it not? I don't disbelieve that a lot of the students @these top Caribbean schools do match, I just think the schools should do a better job of collecting the data.

I'll be a lot of the people who flunk out do so in the 1st two years, and/or because they can't pass the USMLE Step 1. If someone can pass the USMLE's and is hard working, the vast majority should be able to pass clinical rotations and get a residency...

They know who matched. They don't know about everyone else. AUC did try to obtain information. I received some questionaire but didn't respond.
They can't really put out accurate data on residency placement because it depends on many people putting an effort into responding.
Most people who fail do it early, there is a phenomenon of slow burnout where a student can drop a class, take fewer classes, etc. AUC tried to end this years ago. I started in 1994 and there was a guy there named Chicken Killer Mike (a nickname I believe although I never saw his birth certificate) he was in his 10th semester on the Island. At that point AUC clamped down.

 

[dragonfly99]

Hmmm...I think it's kind of weird that med schools don't have access to match results for all their applicants/4th year students. It seemed like when I was in med school, they knew where we matched...I mean officials from our school were the ones handing us the little envelopes on "Match day" telling us where we matched.

 

[RussianJoo]

Hmmm...I think it's kind of weird that med schools don't have access to match results for all their applicants/4th year students. It seemed like when I was in med school, they knew where we matched...I mean officials from our school were the ones handing us the little envelopes on "Match day" telling us where we matched.

they do know where you matched. they don't know if you signed outside the match which is where the problem is. the schools buy the list from NRMP just like all the US schools. however since US students can't sign outside the match and must go through the NRMP thus the school knows where everyone is going when they buy the list from NRMP.

 

[dtwalrus]

K. So wait, for US citizens with no academic 'issues' who weren't entirely unrealistic in the fields they applied to, who weren't socially/mentally deficient, is matching into IM/FM/Neuro/Psych a reasonable expectation?

Who aside from the "I can't deal with this place/these people" drop-outs, what type of people end up leaving? In other words is there any way to get a decent idea of whether you have what it takes or not OTHER than putting up like $30k?

Yes, if you're a US citizen, if you're applying for a field in which your stats are competitve for, if you haven't had academic issues and haven't failed either of the steps, and if you're proficient in your clinical years and get decent rec's (i.e. not socially/mentally deficient) you will have no trouble matching at one of the Big 4.

People who don't make it include people who just can't deal with the island, but most of the people who've I've seen not make it just couldn't cut it in class. What does it take other than tuition, a lot of work. In spite of the reputation, you aren't paying for a degree down here. You do have to earn it. And the course work is no easier than a US med school curriculum.

 

[amakhosidlo]

What does it take other than tuition, a lot of work. In spite of the reputation, you aren't paying for a degree down here. You do have to earn it. And the course work is no easier than a US med school curriculum.

Oh, no that's not what I meant. I was just wondering if there's really any way to tell whether you'll make it or not other than enrolling, working your *** off, failing out, and still being 30k in debt

 

[dtwalrus]

Oh, no that's not what I meant. I was just wondering if there's really any way to tell whether you'll make it or not other than enrolling, working your *** off, failing out, and still being 30k in debt

That's tougher to decide. It's all on you. Go stand in front of your mirror and ask your self why you didn't get into a US school. Why is your GPA and/or MCAT lower than all the other people that did get into a US school. The harsh truth, that most people never want to own up to, is that it's very possible that you just aren't doctor material.

People who discover this truth too late are the ones that don't make it. And it's not just intelligence, it's work ethic and determination just as much. If you can look at yourself honestly and still be convinced that you do have what it takes, that you aren't in some way deficient, come on down, work hard, and you'll make it...

Otherwise, there are a lot of other careers out there in health care that can be just as rewarding, just as involved, and frankly, pay almost as much as some doctors make. Save yourself the trouble and don't give up, there are other really great careers in the health world...