Alliant internation university

[gboy52]

Hi everybody,
I have read from another thread on here that alliant can be very expensive and most student come out with a lot of debt, so i was wondering would it still be worth going if i applied for a military scholarship? The army pays full tuition and books and also gives a monthly stipend for living. I was also wondering how hard is it to get in to alliant? I am looking to go private because i just want to be a clinician either with my own practice or working in a prison, academia and research are not what i want to do.
any help would be greatly appreciated! thank you

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[erg923]

Hi everybody,
I have read from another thread on here that alliant can be very expensive and most student come out with a lot of debt, so i was wondering would it still be worth going if i applied for a military scholarship? The army pays full tuition and books and also gives a monthly stipend for living. I was also wondering how hard is it to get in to alliant? I am looking to go private because i just want to be a clinician either with my own practice or working in a prison, academia and research are not what i want to do.
any help would be greatly appreciated! thank you

I would "research" the search function of this board if I were you, regarding the Alliant question. I think you have some pretty common misconceptions about graduate education in psychology and about what it means to be a doctoral-level psychologist.

PS: By the way, if you do the army thing, you wont be working in your own practice or any prisons for at least 4 years after finsihing your doctorate. You belong to the Uncle Sam until then...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The vast majority of PhDs also are primarily clinicians. the PhD = research & PsyD = Clinical is not at all true. Research and statistics are both vital parts of doctoral training, so if you do not want these as part of your training, you'll want to look elsewhere.

as for Alliant.....you should look elsewhere. there are some excellent university-based programs that offer a balanced training, which will provide their students with plenty of clinical training. Ultimately your research interest will dictate which programs you should consider, as you'll need good mentorship to bea good clinician.

 

[gboy52]

I wouldn't mind belonging to uncle sam for 4 years because most people worry about getting internships after graduating, and i'll be guaranteed a job, plus the experience you will get working as a psychologist for the army would look great on any resume.

 

[aequitasveritas]

I wouldn't mind belonging to uncle sam for 4 years because most people worry about getting internships after graduating, and i'll be guaranteed a job, plus the experience you will get working as a psychologist for the army would look great on any resume.

The Army scholarship is only for years 3-5 of your program. At Alliant you will have a large expense in your first 2 yrs. So, you'll still end up with tons of debt.

I went to Alliant for the Ph.D. I received great assessment training and ok therapy training. Also, you have to end up with one of the few great academicians there to know what you're doing research wise. And these specs are only for the San Diego campus...I know nothing about the other campuses.

One more thing....they have sold the San Diego campus, which was the only real campus they had out of all their locations. Soon they will move into an office park because the president doesnt believe universities should own real estate.

At every step along the way it seemed like Alliant tried to %^&$ me for as much money as they could. And did they. I am in incredible debt, and can only make life work because of the ridiculous income based repayment programs that are part of the socialized mentality bankrupting America...and I am now part of it.

**If I were to do it over again I would apply to a fully funded program and go to a psychoanalytic institute post doctoral. **

 

[psich]

**If I were to do it over again I would apply to a fully funded program and go to a psychoanalytic institute post doctoral. **

Why there?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I wouldn't mind belonging to uncle sam for 4 years because most people worry about getting internships after graduating, and i'll be guaranteed a job, plus the experience you will get working as a psychologist for the army would look great on any resume.

You're still going to need to complete an internship (which are all pre-doctoral) before earning your PhD, as doing so is an APA requirement.

I'm quite positive there have been stellar practitioners who've graduated from Alliant, especially given the number of degrees they award, but on average, attending their program likely isn't going to do you any favors in terms of training, debt, or internship/post-doc/early career placement when compared with the more highly-regarded PsyD programs available.

 

[KillerDiller]

You're still going to need to complete an internship (which are all pre-doctoral) before earning your PhD, as doing so is an APA requirement.

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe those who receive this scholarship are placed in one of the military's internship sites, so it's not nearly the same level of competition the rest of us go through in the match.

OP, if you are interested in the military, that's great. Alliant's cost isn't the only concern about the program, however. They have lower admission standards than university-based programs, meaning your class sizes may be large and the caliber of your classmates subpar. As aequitasveritas mentioned, quality research training difficult to come by at best. Why not aim for a higher quality program? That way, you can use the scholarship if needed, or simply join the military at internship if you don't need the scholarship.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe those who receive this scholarship are placed in one of the military's internship sites, so it's not nearly the same level of competition the rest of us go through in the match.

I think I remember hearing this somewhere as well, yep; thanks for pointing it out. Markp might've actually talked a bit about his experiences filling out the paperwork and what not back in last year's internship thread.

I just wanted to correct a potentially-erroneous idea the OP might've had that by securing the scholarship, you no longer have to worry about finishing an internship at all, which to the best of my knowledge is incorrect. The four years of post-graduation service would save you from having to search for a job or post-doc during that time, though, of course.

 

[erg923]

I wouldn't mind belonging to uncle sam for 4 years because most people worry about getting internships after graduating, and i'll be guaranteed a job, plus the experience you will get working as a psychologist for the army would look great on any resume.

I think that repsonse is most notable for what you didnt mention...

 

[aequitasveritas]

Why there?

Psychoanalytic is my personal bailiwick; what I deem as the best training one can receive. So IMO, go funded (because idt grad programs teach much of tremendous import in general) and then specialize post doctoral.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

I wouldn't mind belonging to uncle sam for 4 years because most people worry about getting internships after graduating, and i'll be guaranteed a job, plus the experience you will get working as a psychologist for the army would look great on any resume.

I think that repsonse is most notable for what you didnt mention...

Yeah, hmmm....why would you need a resume if you are 'guaranteed a job'???

 

[cierranevada]

I attend Alliant right now, and I regret my decision. I think there are wonderful professors, and there are some great training sites. I do not believe our class sizes allow the university to fully give these benefits to the students. Just because a professor is great does not mean he/she will have time to mentor you or answer your questions when your class size is 40 plus. I do think the military option is amazing! I would go Navy though if I were you

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I attend Alliant right now, and I regret my decision. I think there are wonderful professors, and there are some great training sites. I do not believe our class sizes allow the university to fully give these benefits to the students. Just because a professor is great does not mean he/she will have time to mentor you or answer your questions when your class size is 40 plus. I do think the military option is amazing! I would go Navy though if I were you

That seems to be one of the most-frequent criticisms of Alliant and similar programs, both on this board and in-person, at least based on what I've seen/heard. The sheer size of the graduating classes indicates that a finite/limited amount of resources are being spread across a large number of individuals, leading to a potentially-unfair and uneven distribution of training time, attention, and (ultimately) competence.

Again, there are no doubt some very well-trained, highly-effective psychologists coming out of these programs. However, I'm of the opinion that the resources available or secured (often outside of the program, it sounds like) by/to these students should be made available to EVERYONE within the program.

 

[audchik]

**If I were to do it over again I would apply to a fully funded program and go to a psychoanalytic institute post doctoral. **

Just curious, why didn't you go to a funded program? What led you to Alliant?

 

[cara susanna]

I don't recommend the army route. My relative did it for med school and they basically own you. You can't even leave the area for vacation or to visit family without their permission.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I don't recommend the army route. My relative did it for med school and they basically own you. You can't even leave the area for vacation or to visit family without their permission.

I'd say it probably depends on your goals and the type of person you are. I've definitely know individuals for whom service in the armed forces probably wouldn't be a good idea. However, I also know people who've gone through (for both grad school and med school) and loved it.

You definitely should go in with your eyes open in terms of your responsibilities, restrictions, etc. But I say if it's something you've been considering doing for a long time anyway, and it would (as an added bonus) provide you funding to further your education, it's at least worth considering if nothing else.

 

[gboy52]

Because you would only work for them for 3 years after your graduate, like their requirements state. After that you need to find another job, and i'm assuming that having worked in the military would look good on a resume

 

[gboy52]

which campus are you attending? and does the school offer scholarships?

 

[erg923]

Because you would only work for them for 3 years after your graduate, like their requirements state. After that you need to find another job, and i'm assuming that having worked in the military would look good on a resume

You can do your own research into whether Army HPSP is something you wanno do and can help you with your career goals, but I would caution you to think carefully and be mindful of future factors such as spouse, family, location, changing priorities, etc. when making these decisions. That is not exactly a very family friendly option (6 month deployments, mulitiple geographic relocations) if one is married or trying to start a family.

 

[KillerDiller]

Because you would only work for them for 3 years after your graduate, like their requirements state. After that you need to find another job, and i'm assuming that having worked in the military would look good on a resume

Definitely true. I have heard that the military leaves psychologists with administrative experiences that are difficult to come by in the civilian world. If you didn't want to enter the job market at the end of your stint, though, I'm sure you would have the option to re-up your commitment for another 4 years.

 

[aequitasveritas]

Just curious, why didn't you go to a funded program? What led you to Alliant?

I started out in a more business oriented program of psychology in Ca. When I decided it was not for me, and that I wanted to go clinical, I already had established connection and a relatively easy-in with transferable credits to Alliant.

At that time I really wish I had just gone funded or at least tried. I was partly under the illusion that I would get better training.

Ironically, at that point in my training I thought I would take the Army route as well! I now realize that my ideas of joining the Army were really only rationalizations meant to assuage my anxiety of entering into an overly costly program; that I really wasn't planning to truly go into the Army at all...I'm way to subversive.

In addition, the Army scholarship actually covers less that you would imagine. At Alliant you take a huge amount of classes your first two years & THE ARMY WILL ONLY ACCEPT YOU ONCE YOU HAVE BEEN PASSED INTO DOCTORAL CANDIDACY. This is sooo important to understand. This means that in order for you have Army funding starting year three you must have:

1. passed all of your comp exams
2. Taken all the required classes
3. Have your masters degree posted

You are very unlikely to procure all of these things in time to apply for an receive the Army funding in the fall of your 3rd yr.

I digress. Long story short...if I had it to do over again I would have done psychiatry or a funded program...or I would have gotten rejected and done something else.

 

[KillerDiller]

You can do your own research into whether Army HPSP is something you wanno do and can help you with your career goals, but I would caution you to think carefully and be mindful of future factors such as spouse, family, location, changing priorities, etc. when making these decisions. That is not exactly a very family friendly option (6 month deployments, mulitiple geographic relocations) if one is married or trying to start a family.

True. Thinking ahead enough to make a 5-7 year commitment to a graduate program is hard enough. Adding a military obligation on top of that is definitely not something to enter into lightly. In my early 20s, the financial and personal restrictions of graduate looked a lot easier to handle than they do now.

 

[aequitasveritas]

You can do your own research into whether Army HPSP is something you wanno do and can help you with your career goals, but I would caution you to think carefully and be mindful of future factors such as spouse, family, location, changing priorities, etc. when making these decisions. That is not exactly a very family friendly option (6 month deployments, mulitiple geographic relocations) if one is married or trying to start a family.

This times 2.

I looked at the future specs and said hell no.

Plus, it's actually a 13 month deployment. I learned this at my medical evals in Fort Louis before I decided not to join. Over a year! I dont care what strength relationship ur in at that point...it's gonna take a hit.

 

[voyeurofthemind]

Just my two cents. My spouse is a military officer and I know very well what it takes. If you don't have a sense of patriotism and calling to serve your country and you are only in it for the money --- you will find the military to be quite difficult and unrewarding. I don't see any indication of an understanding of a the self-sacrifice that comes with joining the military in any of these comments but rather only a somewhat selfish desire to have loans paid for. Again, in that case, military service is probably not for you.

 

[aequitasveritas]

Just my two cents. My spouse is a military officer and I know very well what it takes. If you don't have a sense of patriotism and calling to serve your country and you are only in it for the money --- you will find the military to be quite difficult and unrewarding. I don't see any indication of an understanding of a the self-sacrifice that comes with joining the military in any of these comments but rather only a somewhat selfish desire to have loans paid for. Again, in that case, military service is probably not for you.

In one cent I agree.

In another, the military cannot offer a subpar standard of living and a modest salary to people who have invested 8-10 yrs of their lives in highly specialized training, and not expect those people to be interested in the other benefits like tuition repayment.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

In another, the military cannot offer a subpar standard of living and a modest salary to people who have invested 8-10 yrs of their lives in highly specialized training, and not expect those people to be interested in the other benefits like tuition repayment.

I would expect service men/women to have other interests outside of serving their country, but the responsibility and commitment is far greater when serving in the military than it is in the public/private sectors.

Admittedly, there are some people who enter the military because they had few options and/or wanted the benefits, but I would hypothesize they are in the vast minority for graduate training. I think the fact students can only apply after doing most of their training helps with this aspect. The military culture is a very different experience, and someone being "stuck" in the military to pay off their loans would most likely be miserable. The need to get up early and do things was enough for me to forego a career in the military.

 

[aagman01]

Haha.....why don't you simply NOT apply for the loan forgiveness program & income-based repayment options and take a stand against "socialized mentality bankrupting America"??? Do as I say, not as I do, eh?

Hehe.....I will with pleasure accept the loan forgiveness and IBR, in spite of being responsible and having attended a fully funded, university program. If our country and tax dollars can spend over a trillion dollars occupying Iraq, can spend more than every country in the world combined on the military, can enable the wealthiest 25 corporations to pay an average of $0 in corporate taxes, etc etc., it can enable me and other grad students to have (a) manageable debt load and (b) an opportunity to give back (through work within a publicly-funded institution) for my career.

The Army scholarship is only for years 3-5 of your program. At Alliant you will have a large expense in your first 2 yrs. So, you'll still end up with tons of debt.

I went to Alliant for the Ph.D. I received great assessment training and ok therapy training. Also, you have to end up with one of the few great academicians there to know what you're doing research wise. And these specs are only for the San Diego campus...I know nothing about the other campuses.

One more thing....they have sold the San Diego campus, which was the only real campus they had out of all their locations. Soon they will move into an office park because the president doesnt believe universities should own real estate.

At every step along the way it seemed like Alliant tried to %^&$ me for as much money as they could. And did they. I am in incredible debt, and can only make life work because of the ridiculous income based repayment programs that are part of the socialized mentality bankrupting America...and I am now part of it.

**If I were to do it over again I would apply to a fully funded program and go to a psychoanalytic institute post doctoral. **

 

[aequitasveritas]

Haha.....why don't you simply NOT apply for the loan forgiveness program & income-based repayment options and take a stand against "socialized mentality bankrupting America"??? Do as I say, not as I do, eh?
.

What I clearly implied is that I am admitting to hypocrisy, and am using the IBR out of sheer necessity.

 

[aagman01]

Cool. Glad you are admitting to it! Not always easy to accept contradiction, for anyone (myself certainly included ).

The next step is to admit that comparable other social benefit/support programs (e.g. food stamps, medicaid, Pell Grants etc.) also serve a need (to enable one to live modestly, and have greater opportunity) for some folks in comparable ways to how the IBR/Loan Forgiveness serves a need for you. Are you also up for admitting to that??

What I clearly implied is that I am admitting to hypocrisy, and am using the IBR out of sheer necessity.

 

[aequitasveritas]

Cool. Glad you are admitting to it! Not always easy to accept contradiction, for anyone (myself certainly included ).

The next step is to admit that comparable other social benefit/support programs (e.g. food stamps, medicaid, Pell Grants etc.) also serve a need (to enable one to live modestly, and have greater opportunity) for some folks in comparable ways to how the IBR/Loan Forgiveness serves a need for you. Are you also up for admitting to that??

For me it is a matter of degree, dear Watson, and not one or the other. The benefits you list are necessary for some and abused my some. I am for assistance with requirements of achievement.

 

[aagman01]

One could argue the same thing about your situation, dear Watson.

I or others could argue that professional schools are hurting the field and produce poor quality graduates, and that such benefits (e.g. IBR/Public Loan Forgiveness) are a needless waste of the public expenditure for professional school students. One could, in that vein, arugue that such public benefits should only go to/for those with the "necessary requirements of achievement" (e.g. completion of a funded, university-based training program). I am not saying I agree with such "requirements of achievement" or the sentiment behind it. I am only saying that someone could make such an argument, dear Watson, just as you make such an argument against social benefits

For me it is a matter of degree, dear Watson, and not one or the other. The benefits you list are necessary for some and abused my some. I am for assistance with requirements of achievement.

 

[aequitasveritas]

One could argue the same thing about your situation, dear Watson.

I or others could argue that professional schools are hurting the field and produce poor quality graduates, and that such benefits (e.g. IBR/Public Loan Forgiveness) are a needless waste of the public expenditure for professional school students. One could, in that vein, arugue that such public benefits should only go to/for those with the "necessary requirements of achievement" (e.g. completion of a funded, university-based training program). I am not saying I agree with such "requirements of achievement" or the sentiment behind it. I am only saying that someone could make such an argument, dear Watson, just as you make such an argument against social benefits

...Then we are in agreement Holmes

 

[aagman01]

Nice to come to an agreement on an SDN post

...Then we are in agreement Holmes

 

[deleted176373]

Hi everybody,
I have read from another thread on here that alliant can be very expensive and most student come out with a lot of debt, so i was wondering would it still be worth going if i applied for a military scholarship? The army pays full tuition and books and also gives a monthly stipend for living. I was also wondering how hard is it to get in to alliant? I am looking to go private because i just want to be a clinician either with my own practice or working in a prison, academia and research are not what i want to do.
any help would be greatly appreciated! thank you

From the SDN feature article: "Well, I absolutely would not go to private school again. It’s like buying a house but having no house to show for it. I graduated in 1995, and by 1999 I was drowning in intense debt—and I had a good job! Literally because of two people who decided to save me I have paid off my school debt. Unless you’re independently wealthy, I would think about why you want to go into this field. If you’re just interested in helping people and working with people, I’d recommend becoming a social worker. I wanted to work in a clinical setting, and during my second year internship at a clinic, the director was a social worker. There are social workers in prisons, too. As long as you’re focused on assessment, clinical psychology is good. But if you want to work with families, get an MFT—you’ll make less but you’ll also have less debt. And there are jobs to get. It takes at least 10 years to gain the financial advantage of a PhD or Masters. But at this moment in time, because I’m a professor, I’m glad I got my PhD."


Will you listen to the voice of personal experience, or will you make the same mistake? Find a funded program that will take you, if you cannot, rethink your decision. While the military is a great option to repay your debt, earn a good salary, and engage in things that many clinical psychologists never get to do, it is also competitive.



So while it may be less difficult to gain admission to an Alliant school, it will remain competitive to get one of the very few Army scholarships... I know the Navy offers less than 6 per year.


Mark

 

[deleted176373]

I think I remember hearing this somewhere as well, yep; thanks for pointing it out. Markp might've actually talked a bit about his experiences filling out the paperwork and what not back in last year's internship thread.

I just wanted to correct a potentially-erroneous idea the OP might've had that by securing the scholarship, you no longer have to worry about finishing an internship at all, which to the best of my knowledge is incorrect. The four years of post-graduation service would save you from having to search for a job or post-doc during that time, though, of course.

The Army makes you compete through the APPIC Match for their sites, only the Navy has a captive internship (APA accreditation is still pending, but we should hear from them in a few months.) I cannot imagine (given what I am going through) that this site won't get APA accreditation, the teaching staff have done a phenomenal job setting up such a thorough program in short order.

 

[deleted176373]

Just my two cents. My spouse is a military officer and I know very well what it takes. If you don't have a sense of patriotism and calling to serve your country and you are only in it for the money --- you will find the military to be quite difficult and unrewarding. I don't see any indication of an understanding of a the self-sacrifice that comes with joining the military in any of these comments but rather only a somewhat selfish desire to have loans paid for. Again, in that case, military service is probably not for you.

What sacrifice?



Seriously, for those that really understand military service, it can be incredibly rewarding. I enjoy working with my co-workers. I enjoy the commitment to achieving that we all share. At this level of military service, you don't find underachievers or slackers as a general rule. I know all about the sacrifices (14 years of active duty service so far), but the rewards outweigh the sacrifices for me.

M

 

[eudaimonPsyD]

Hi everybody,
I have read from another thread on here that alliant can be very expensive and most student come out with a lot of debt, so i was wondering would it still be worth going if i applied for a military scholarship? The army pays full tuition and books and also gives a monthly stipend for living. I was also wondering how hard is it to get in to alliant? I am looking to go private because i just want to be a clinician either with my own practice or working in a prison, academia and research are not what i want to do.
any help would be greatly appreciated! thank you

Being an Alliant student in the throws of the internship process right now, I honestly recommend looking elsewhere at programs that are more reputable within the community. I am confident that my school's reputation has impacted my chances of matching at internship. While I understand a military scholarship may guarantee you an internship, the poor reputation is based on the school's performance across many facets, and your training may be compromised because of it. But if you are set on Alliant, definitely go to a campus that is more regarded (San Fran, San Diego, or LA). Don't waste your time at Fresno or Sacramento (trust me, I know personally!). Even though I am an Alliant student, I have regretted since after my first year. But I was already locked in to so much debt, I didn't want to walk away 25-30K in the hole with nothing to show for it (as my guess would be, most other universities would not take Alliant transfer units, since even some Alliant won't transfer units intercampus). Do yourself a favor and explore all your options.

 

[PerhapsMaybeOk]

Being an Alliant student in the throws of the internship process right now, I honestly recommend looking elsewhere at programs that are more reputable within the community. I am confident that my school's reputation has impacted my chances of matching at internship. While I understand a military scholarship may guarantee you an internship, the poor reputation is based on the school's performance across many facets, and your training may be compromised because of it. But if you are set on Alliant, definitely go to a campus that is more regarded (San Fran, San Diego, or LA). Don't waste your time at Fresno or Sacramento (trust me, I know personally!). Even though I am an Alliant student, I have regretted since after my first year. But I was already locked in to so much debt, I didn't want to walk away 25-30K in the hole with nothing to show for it (as my guess would be, most other universities would not take Alliant transfer units, since even some Alliant won't transfer units intercampus). Do yourself a favor and explore all your options.

Are Alliant and Argosy synonymous?

 

[PsyDGrrrl]

Are Alliant and Argosy synonymous?

Not quite. Alliant at least used to have a better reputation, and at least it's a not-for-profit school, unlike Argosy.

 

[eudaimonPsyD]

Not quite. Alliant at least used to have a better reputation, and at least it's a not-for-profit school, unlike Argosy.

I think the SF, SD, and LA programs likely still have decent reputations and do well with their students. The other programs seem to be falling apart. I am just trying to grin and bear it and come out the other side. Luckily I have had excellent practicum placements that have made up for my arguably sub-par education. I know that I will face struggles in the next coming years as I transition into my early career, struggles that others from funded, reputable programs will not have to face. I don't see why anyone would knowingly place themselves into such struggles. If I had known what I would be facing, and had more initial confidence in myself that I am good enough for stronger programs, things would be very different now...

 

[audchik]

Being an Alliant student in the throws of the internship process right now, I honestly recommend looking elsewhere at programs that are more reputable within the community. I am confident that my school's reputation has impacted my chances of matching at internship. While I understand a military scholarship may guarantee you an internship, the poor reputation is based on the school's performance across many facets, and your training may be compromised because of it. But if you are set on Alliant, definitely go to a campus that is more regarded (San Fran, San Diego, or LA). Don't waste your time at Fresno or Sacramento (trust me, I know personally!). Even though I am an Alliant student, I have regretted since after my first year. But I was already locked in to so much debt, I didn't want to walk away 25-30K in the hole with nothing to show for it (as my guess would be, most other universities would not take Alliant transfer units, since even some Alliant won't transfer units intercampus). Do yourself a favor and explore all your options.

Can you talk a little more specifically about what has made you regret your decision? You mentioned that you feel the school's rep has interfered with getting an internship, but is there anything else besides that? What made you regret it after your first year?